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Managing Not So Great Expectations

By Ian Henry

Reflections on Wednesday evening’s defeat

As I stood in the queue outside Highbury & Islington station after another Champions League debacle, one fellow fan said to his somewhat disinterested girlfriend: “it’s ridiculous. Beaten by Monaco. Apart from Berbatov, I hadn’t heard of any of them.”

Well my friend, welcome to the real world. I hadn’t heard of any of the Spartak Moscow team which tore Arsenal apart in 1982, nor did I know any of the Sven-Goran Eriksson-managed Benfica team which ripped George Graham’s Arsenal to shreds in 1991. Back in 1969, I certainly didn’t know any of the Swindon team who beat Arsenal 3-1 at Wembley. Myopia is a congenital trait in all football supporters.

Back to Wednesday night: It’s happened before (Arsenal losing limply in Europe) and it’ll happen again (Arsenal defending like schoolboys). For those of you who don’t remember the pre-Wenger days, Wenger’s Arsenal performed shockingly at home to Auxerre and Inter Milan at Highbury, on both occasions showing defensive naivety on a similar scale to the performance against Monaco.

Monaco had only conceded one goal in the group stages of this season’s competition. And last night showed why. Defensively disciplined, big and strong in the tackle, always covering, denying space, and never over-committing players forward. Everything Arsenal were not.

When I eventually got through the queue and onto the platform to head home, I overhead some fans describing Giroud’s performance as the worst they had seen since the infamous “Eboue the substitute being substituted” performance of a few years ago. It was difficult to disagree. In the build-up to the Monaco game, Olivier said he wasn’t afraid of talk of Jackson Martinez coming to Arsenal. Well, Olivier, your lack of shooting accuracy may yet mean we fail to get the 4th place trophy and in that case, Jackson will definitely not come to Arsenal.

Ah yes, the coveted 4th place trophy, or as one of the people on the train said, the “we’ll get definitely get third” trophy. Arsenal under Arsene and Uncle Stan exist to get into the top four to guarantee Champions League revenue and in turn attract some of the more expensive players to the club. Again, to quote a chap on the train: “Would Ozil and Sanchez be here without the Champions League?” Maybe, maybe not. Remember Luis Suarez went to Liverpool without the CL guarantee; and Christian Eriksen went to that mob up the road (for one third of Ozil’s fee by the way) with no CL guarantee, as did Falcao, di Maria and Mata when they joined Manure.

However, whether or not Ozil or Sanchez would have come to Arsenal or not without the CL is not the issue. The issue is that we are in the CL, so why do we time and time again mess it up? The Invincibles couldn’t hack it in Europe and nor can the current crop. The irony is that one of the weakest Arsenal teams under Wenger’s management nearly did succeed in Europe, back in 2006. Remember that team, Flamini at left back, Eboue at right back, Senderos in the centre … remarkable! What they had was some defensive steel and organisation. Rumour has it that it came from Martin Keown.

There’s no point calling for the manager’s head; I have resigned myself to the fact that he won’t go of his own accord. And the board won’t sack him, not with two years of £8m a year salary to go. I no longer have any expectations when I go to watch Arsenal: I used to care, I used to get very passionate about it, but from my privileged vantage point in the upper tier just above the manager on the bench, I could see the see the complete lack of organisation at the back all too plainly. And I have done for several seasons. Leopards can’t change their spots and Arsene Wenger is not going to change his ways; as I have noted before, this Arsenal team has thrown away a 4-2 lead against Spurs as we headed into injury time, so why we should expect defensive discipline for 90 minutes I don’t know. As one of my on-train “correspondents” put it, “we can’t see the pattern of play from where we are… we are too low down.” And so is the manager. Maybe he should sit up top on occasion and watch how different the game looks from there; but, what do I know? I haven’t worked a day in football.

27th February 2015 09:00:00

(7.9/10)

Comments and Reaction

User comments on this article are now closed. If you want to continue the debate, why not do so on the Gooner Forum.

Website Editor  9:28am 27th Feb 2015

Regards getting an overview of the game from a lofted pew, I am under the impression that Boro Primorac watches that game from the directors' box and presumably communicates to the manager at half-time. Wenger has said in the past that he likes to be pitchside because he doesn't like the separation from his players. An odd thing to say given the number of matches he does not bother to extensively use his technical area. - Post No. 71200


Mike Collins  9:56am 27th Feb 2015

Ian's resigned tone echoes the one we heard in Kev's match report yesterday - we're crap but nothing will change because AW won't do the decent thing and resign, and the board, interested solely in money, won't fire him as the CL cash comes rolling in every year. And there's the rub - plenty of money but no soul, that having been traded in along with Highbury stadium. Those days weren't perfect (15,000 against Coventry anyone?) but at least they weren't disgraceful, as these ones are. How has it got to this? - Post No. 71205


DJ  10:10am 27th Feb 2015

Mike Collins: Spot on, the most frustrating thing about all of this is we the fans can do nothing about it. Fan power got rid of Terry Neil in the days of yore but now Arsenal have more customers than fans with real passion. It’s a safer more cordial place to go but don’t expect to have an opinion the club just don’t want your sort anymore dear boy! - Post No. 71207


chris dee  10:29am 27th Feb 2015

People say Arsene is brave and admirable by sticking to his attacking philosophy no matter what. It's not brave and it's not admirable. It's a form of cowardice because he can always hide behind his 'Arsenal way'philosophy after any defeat. What would be brave and admirable is for Arsene to abandon that philosophy in games that require defensive discipline from all eleven players.To see the team play against Monaco in such a naive,cavalier and arrogant way was mind numbing.But Arsene won't change because he couldn't face the critisism if we did better in these big games by occasionally adapting tactics. This unbending philosophy is what brings about 6-0,8-2,6-3 defeats.This is what allows teams to come back from 4-0 down or 4-2 down with five minutes to play or a cringe worthy 3-1 defeat at home in the Champions League against United.This why we have only won so few games against the top clubs in the Premiership and why clubs in Europe,including Monaco, love to be drawn against Arsenal.Forget the 'old days' when the pressure of gaining success was not so intense,we are now up against ruthless, win at all cost competition at home and abroad and if we do not embrace and understand this then we will forever be also rans behind Chelsea,United,City Real,Barca,Bayern Munich etc. But at the end of the day the buck stops with board. - Post No. 71210


Alsace  10:33am 27th Feb 2015

I remember losing to Winterslag in the early 80's with Pat Jennings having a shocker. Players have bad games and clubs lose games they shouldn't. That isn't the point. Losing this way is a deliberate act by the Manager. It goes way beyond negligence. The phrase "specialist in failure" suggests incompetence or recklessness. The truth is far far worse. - Post No. 71213


David  11:41am 27th Feb 2015

Arsenal's Euro trophy return of 2/6 is pretty bad. Not good enough in 95 - but should've won in 2001 - and evens in 1980 and 2006. With better luck it would've been 4/6. The number of finals that Arsenal have reached is ok, but success rate in the finals makes it feel worse when the side is struggling. The biggest disappointment was, as Don remarks, the performance of the side in Europe between 2001 - 2004. - Post No. 71220


GoonerGoal!  12:08pm 27th Feb 2015

"The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall..." - Che Guevara - Post No. 71221


Charlie George Orwell  12:14pm 27th Feb 2015

Kev - while not doubting what you say, I'm pretty sure I saw Primorac (during the second half at least) in the technical area on Wednesday night, and looking pretty fed up, too. Whether it was due to the team performance or the lack of champers available, I don't know. - Post No. 71222


mark from aylesbury  12:21pm 27th Feb 2015

It is perhaps too easy for us to think nothing can be done. However noises in the press suggest that maybe this was one of those milestones, an unpleasant one granted, that has caused some shock at the top. There are some suggestions that the board think this season is results time. Therefore he is going to be held to account. This is a gradual but ever increasing wave coming his way. Gradually we are seeing the erosion of his power and real pressure coming his way. Just a shame this was not applied 5 years ago. - Post No. 71223


Tony Evans  12:37pm 27th Feb 2015

I just don't understand the likes of Colesyboy and others of his ilk. They seem to be unable to differentiate, or even to understand, the difference between criticism and support. Of course we all support Arsenal but that doesn't mean we can't be critical of how the club is being managed, and also of the farcical performances we see time and time again in the games that really matter. Far from being an anti-Arsenal site what shines through to me from most of the posters is how much they care and, even if they have ceased caring, how sad that has made them feel. For me any fan with a genuine love of the club and a modicum of common sense ought to be able to see by now that Wenger has to go if we want to step up another level. I would even go as far as to say that to give blind loyalty to Wenger (after witnessing so many debacles) seems to suggest to me that you are putting him before your club. - Post No. 71226


Charlie George Orwell  12:38pm 27th Feb 2015

Sorry - not technical area, I meant beside the substitutes seating. - Post No. 71227


Mike Collins  13:06pm 27th Feb 2015

Tony Evans is right; the most stinging criticisms here come from diehard Arsenal fans alarmed at the direction we have taken in the last seven to eight years, both on and off the pitch. I recall vividly the solid wall of noise we would generate in the North Bank when Spurs or Chelsea came to visit, for example, roaring on Arsenal teams that may not have been the most technically gifted, but who certainly gave it their all. Now we get the insipid north London intelligentsia, mostly out-of-towners having their "capital experience", filling out the Guardian crossword as a bunch of overpaid and overseas dandies waft about the pitch thinking about their next £120k payday. Things will never go back to the old days but they certainly could be a lot better than they are just now. - Post No. 71231


The Players  13:09pm 27th Feb 2015

The players had nothing to do with it no? AW looked genuinly up for this one...the players fluffed it for me. Even Bould had the stuffing knowcked out of him with what was going on...it cant be all AW - Post No. 71232


wykeboy  13:16pm 27th Feb 2015

goodbye Arsene hello Denis B and Tony A brains and knowhow in charge not dogma - Post No. 71235


Gaz  13:25pm 27th Feb 2015

I reckon some fans just feel their loyalty to the Club is under question if they dare to criticise any single aspect of it. As others have said though those who dare to stick their necks out always come over as being far more passionate about the Club. Not in every case obviously but certainly in most cases... - Post No. 71236


nickf  13:31pm 27th Feb 2015

We need to get rid of Wenger but there are just too many people who wouldn't consider doing anything that could be construed as negative inside the stadium. I've had these arguments on another forum with long term fans. Even booing at the end of the game is out. - Post No. 71237


maguiresbridge gooner  13:41pm 27th Feb 2015

It will happen again alright you can be damm sure of that and sooner than we think but of course to many it will be just another blip. Leopards certainly can't change their spots so it wouldn't matter or make any difference where the old has been sat when your clueless your clueless. - Post No. 71239


Aaron  13:49pm 27th Feb 2015

If we beat Everton on Sunday, a team which lie 12th and 6 points above the relegation zone, cue "great mental strength" quotes. I was up at St Jame's Park when we threw away a 4-0 HT lead (and almost lost). How much evidence does anyone need. The AC Milan team that beat us 4-0 was dire. Steve Bruce tactically out thought Wenger in the cup final. We never learn and never will under Wenger - Post No. 71240


maguiresbridge gooner  13:57pm 27th Feb 2015

Charlie George Orwell, maybe he got lost and just wandered down, as I doubt very much TOF would have listened to anything he had to say. I'd imagine that's his main function at the club under OGL anyway just wandering about. - Post No. 71243


HowardL  14:22pm 27th Feb 2015

To quote from The Manager's column in Wednesday's programme "When you look at the numbers, you see that Monaco are a team who made 11 points at the group stage. They scored four goals and conceded one, so that means they defend very well. That's what they will certainly try to do tonight and they are also very good on the break and quick in transition, so that's what we'll expect from them." So what happened Arsene? An excellent analysis but as there was no indication of an appropriate tactical plan on the night, it seems to cast some doubt on whether Wenger actually wrote these words? Or believed them himself? - Post No. 71245


mark from aylesbury  14:25pm 27th Feb 2015

The Players - There are a few people saying it is all down to the players - But what then, does this mean he has lost the dressing room? If the players were not doing what he wanted why not shout and call over Per and tell him hold the line. But we see nothing from Wenger at all. He just seems to inwardly collapse. That is the problem - Post No. 71246


Badarse  14:30pm 27th Feb 2015

Hello Gaz, it's me again. I shan't say you are once more mistaken, because I can only speak for myself on this occasion, however on that you are mistaken. I have no doubt of your loyalty to AFC, as I have none in my own case either. I can criticise and I wouldn't bat an eyelid as to what others think or feel. I try not to wound personally. That is a general yardstick, I also prefer to think positively. The third tenet I try to live by is not whining and bemoaning how life has dealt me a poor hand-this means I am a pragmatist. I am far from happy with 'our' lot. I do not see the wailing and gnashing of teeth other than amusing. It will not change matters-so why do it? If a poster's name was offered I could pretty much tell you what they would post, so it leaves me cold. It's why I often post silly nonsense-it alleviates the monotony if nothing else. Stick with me on this Gaz, Arsenal are mine. I love all about my club, I cannot explain the sentiments or emotions but they are constant and have remained travelling companions for almost sixty years. It is how it is. Competitive? People who know me would laugh-they think I am far too competitive, too confrontational, too ready for the 'off'. It is how it is. I do not see through your eyes my friend. You see those screaming for change as more passionate-passion is a fluid and flexible emotion, expressed in many ways. In 2005 I stood in front of a large screen holding my wife's hand as the tension mounted during the penalty shoot out. I erupted as PV4 scored the winning goal. I was beside myself, (I said 'Hello Badarse.' The sod refused to answer). I whooped, yelled and kept shouting, 'We've done it!', (you should see what I am like when I stub my toe in a morning). Backslapping and kisses followed. I held my wife and for some inexplicable reason I began to cry. Not sobbing or anything like that, just water trickling down my face, (Oh hang on it was my round-perhaps that's it). That my friend in any circumstances is passion. So I think the lines are drawn too broadly if nothing else. Peace, Young Gun. - Post No. 71247


Tony Evans  14:57pm 27th Feb 2015

Badarse - I well remember that penalty shoot out and the feeling of amazed relief that we had somehow won the game. I get what you saying about positivity and looking on the bright side but sometimes you have to give vent to your feelings of impotent rage at performances like Wednesday night. Just get it off your chest and you will feel all the better for it. You know you want to really! - Post No. 71249


Gaz  15:02pm 27th Feb 2015

@Badarse: Perhaps I was overly harsh there. Apologies fella... - Post No. 71250


Roy  15:02pm 27th Feb 2015

I'll give an indication of how it's really got me deep down. Just imagine for a few seconds that we score a third goal in Monaco near the end of 90 mins to either win it or take it to extra time ( difficult, I know) - D'ya know what ? I won't even get excited. You know that gut - wrenching feeling in that type of situation ? Well, it ain't gonna happen. Do you know why ? Because this clueless manager and regime have knocked it out of me and I had no confidence that we could go any further than the quarters anyway ( the same as most of us with any intelligence ). Anyway, by that time, we'll have bottled it again at O/T leaving us free to flat track bully our way to a top four finish yet again. And so it goes on. I never ever thought I would be able to think that I don't care, but I'm right on the edge of it now. How has it come to this, indeed ? - Post No. 71251


Badarse  15:04pm 27th Feb 2015

Tony have to rush am training my little grandson for a school athletics meet tomorrow. I really respect you fella too. Have a moan for me, will you? It hurt on Weds night, but am looking towards Everton now. - Post No. 71252


Gaz  15:23pm 27th Feb 2015

@Roy: Sadly fella you're where I've been now for about 18 months. Dont get excited if we win nor does it really effect me when we lose. Thats a big shame because my general moods have been dependant on what we do for 40 odd years now!... - Post No. 71255


Tony Evans  15:42pm 27th Feb 2015

Gaz and Roy - I've reached that point too and there must be many more like us that have had 30 to 50 years worth of passion for the club just beaten out of them by this mind numbingly boring treadmill the club have been on for what seems like an eternity now. Even though it was 'only' Monaco how many of us were surprised by the ineptitude of the performance - not many I would wager. We have been conditioned to expect failure by the 'specialist in failure' and are probably more surprised when something positive actually happens! - Post No. 71256


jeff wright  15:48pm 27th Feb 2015

Collseyboy/Tont/ pepe and his pal lee and Trev's reasons for posting as they do is no great mystery really they along with dear Jamerson internet trolls .lee admitted to reading spuds and other supporters forums and most likely posts silly abuse on them. They see anyone who doesent share their obsession with Arsene as being anti-Arsenal while they are of course themselves uber supporters of AFC . Team performances in their minds when good are down to Wenger's brilliance and when they are poor are then due to factors other than Arsene's management .This is very convenient for Wenger because he is only responsible for the wins and absolved of any blame for the defeat and poor defensive shows. You couldn't make it up. These defeats and the shocking defensive displays are according to the AKB down to other factors the players are being blamed entirely for the Monaco debacle by some AKB's and it's claimed that poor old Arsene was betrayed by his players . How can it be his fault that we have a striker who constantly misses sitters and looks out of his depth in big pressure games and GK's that flap about like a line of wet washing in the wind >? Other classic excuses in the past have been lack of money although Wenger is known to be tighter than a gnats arse when it comes to spending any , dodgy refs , that used to be a fav excuse with some table of iffy stats beng cobbled together at one time to try and prove that instead of being 5th we should be first in the league table! The weather at times has also been blamed wind and rain ,full moons had all the AKB's howling together , or even supporters not singing loud enough at home games. Obviously ,'There Is Only Arsene Wenger' should have rung out the other night that would have scared the Monaco players! These Colesy type clowns are the sort that do the OLES ! at home games when our fast track bullies are bashing about some rubbish Prem side such as Villa at the coliseum of gloom and then pop up on here gloating about it. In fact he and his pal did do actually . Obviously when n brains were given out they did not get their fair share and when colesy was born instead of slapping his arse the midwife slapped his mothers face, but Arsene loves 'em. Why wouldn't he ? They try to dress up this weird obsession that they have with Wenger as being getting behind the team. Though how anyone could get behind a team playing like our lot did the other night against a very ordinary with half the first team missing Monaco , a side that lies 4th in the French league 11 points off the top,is something that only these AKB fools know. I did not see Wenger getting behind them or Bould either. I doubt myself that any AKB were getting behind the players when watching the diabolical way in which they were performing , but they come on here pretending to have done so because after having dug themselves into entrenched positions over Wenger they are now stuck in a hole that they can't get themselves out of.C'est la vie ! - Post No. 71257


Gaz  16:24pm 27th Feb 2015

The saddest thing about it all Tony is that my 17 y/o daughter is feeling exactly the same way now! Kind of feel guilty about this as its obvious my own negativity has worn her down at a point in her life when she shouldn't be looking too deeply into it all!!! I've really tried hard to be positive when we're watching games together but Wenger and his players make it all so darn hard! As soon as Monaco scored their third goal she just looked at me, raised her eyebrows, and went back to tweeting on her phone!!! I was walking down the stairs at work yesterday and a mate asked me if I was still frustrated at wednesdays result. I told him I felt 'frustrated' during the years 2009-2013-now I'm just indifferent to it all and couldn't give a toss!!! And thinking about it all I totally blame Wenger for all of this. At any other Club he would have gone a few years back. Sadly a situation bourne out of many different elements and situations means he's now been here 3 years longer than he should have been. Up to three years ago I still wanted him gone but still enjoyed watching us play and never wanted anything other than an Arsenal win. The thought that a defeat might just influence his leaving never entered my head. Nowadays I dont enjoy watching us and every defeat is sadly followed by the thought it might be a good thing as it piles the pressure on him to go. Hate feeling this way I really do... - Post No. 71262


Badarse  16:53pm 27th Feb 2015

Gaz, you will never need to apologise to me, I am almost impervious-have had a lifetime of criticisms and aggro, (how I wish I had westlower's equanimity-truly, I think he is remarkable), so all in my stride. In this instance you were just offering a view borne of a feeling/assessment. I just offered a personal view which was meant to just let you know some are not as you perceive them. If you were with me watching, (we'd need to win that particular game of course), you'd be whipped up by my enthusiasm-most are...honest!) Once went to see friends at Braintree, went to their social club, we scored, I ran at the screen yelling, (do this occasionally; never managed yet to get onto the pitch via the screen but have analysed my actions and concluded that's what I am trying to do-silly old fool!) Returned to my beaming friend, think he'd had a crafty swig of my Guinness. Did the defeat hurt me? A bit of me died-does that tell it about right? We are just all a little bit different, that's all. - Post No. 71266


maguiresbridge gooner  17:01pm 27th Feb 2015

HowardL, I doubt very much he did/does (or even reads them) but the person that does is the one we need as our next manager. - Post No. 71267


Gaz  17:04pm 27th Feb 2015

@Badarse: In that case I take it all back you stupid old fart!!! :-) ... - Post No. 71268


Hiccup  17:07pm 27th Feb 2015

Are there no boundaries to how far the AKB's will go to give us all a good laugh. Some classics over the last 2 days. "We were unlucky. We could easily have won the game 4-1 if we had taken our chances." This was probably the same numbskull I remember saying we would have won at OT instead of losing 8-2 had Van Persie scored his penalty. And I recall after the City win, because of the unusual circumstance of what appeared to be a tactical approach, some on here credited the players for this performance. How they were shot down by the ruffled AKB's who would hear none of it and gave the credit to wenger. And here we are now, with the AKB's clambering over themselves to lay the blame at the players feet for Wednesday's performance, absolving wenger of anything to do with it. I'm glad their routers are still working. Much more fun when they're posting their excuses. - Post No. 71269


Exeter Gunner  17:20pm 27th Feb 2015

Gaz, not sure what you're apologising for? "I reckon some fans just feel their loyalty to the Club is under question if they dare to criticise any single aspect of it" is self-evidently true, your comment on passion was generalised and you even qualified it with 'not in every case'. Badarse, as is his wont, then decided to make the post about himself. "Arsenal is mine." In psychological terms, I think what we have here is a narcissistic appropriation of Arsenal. Arsenal as an adjunct, an extension of the self. A celebration of the self. It's interesting. - Post No. 71270


Gaz  17:33pm 27th Feb 2015

@EG: you're right, I did quantify it by saying 'not everyone' but I still think it's a bit harsh to presume most of us who dare to criticise are more passionate than those who won't. What I should have added of course is that those who can't/wont criticise are a bunch of effing weirdos holding the Club back!!! :-) ... - Post No. 71272


goonercolesyboy  17:40pm 27th Feb 2015

More mindless time wasting drivel from jeff...your posting is laughable, nonsensical and rubbish. More and more can see you as a fool who hasn't a clue what he is talking about. You make stuff up just to suit your agenda. Why spend time on here when no one at Arsenal cares a damn what you say. They are running a football club, all you do is run your mouth. - Post No. 71274


Badarse  18:12pm 27th Feb 2015

Not so much of the 'old', Gaz. Don't listen to E/G, he isn't a good e.g. He gets stuck on some things and has lead you into a cul de sac again. I can criticise AFC all day long if I felt the necessity-I despise much surrounding it. However I am angered by much which passes for normality in everyday life and sometimes have a rant. Pick a subject, I have a feeling my responses would blow you away, that's how I feel about real issues. I do try to illustrate my criticisms with reasonable alternative suggestions though, when talking of national/international matters. With AFC we are virtually powerless, becoming more so by the season, but do not see lynching AW as an answer to all our ills-because it isn't! E/G is an obsessive with a certain malfunction. He knows I have lots of dissatisfaction, as I say so occasionally. He knows I believe we as fans are powerless to effect real change where it's needed. He just has an agenda that all is AW's fault and I don't share it. I have long since explained my approach and reasoning-over a year ago-and will not be pressured into a dogfight to give fuel to a personal demand, by going through it all again. He cannot accept this, because with his problem it doesn't fit his remit, (it leaves it open and he needs a kind of closure), in fact it works against it. It's why he is so stoked up about it-that is funny. He craves me to say you are right, and it isn't happening. - Post No. 71275


maguiresbridge gooner  18:16pm 27th Feb 2015

mark from aylesbury, good point, the the dressing, that's been brought up on here quite a few times, it would certainly look like it but they're probably to thick to realise it themselves, but I've no doubt most of them are as pissed off with him as we are (maybe not his wee favourites)but are so comfortable on big contracts and know they wouldn't get the same or even a look in anywhere else put up with it and him and his on going inwardly collapse's which are even noticeable, where he just sits there looking/staring out into the abyss as the dwarfs run around doing whatever they do, then he realises the cameras on him and he sits up, startled, looking all round the place trying to give the impression he's taking everything in and knows what's going on and happening, then when the camera pans away it's back to his stupor. - Post No. 71276


Badarse  18:47pm 27th Feb 2015

AW can't organise the players, he leaves them to work it out for themselves, and that's crap. Beat the Oilers and the players did it, AW is redundant. Play badly against the Sours and AW did it. We flip backwards and forwards WOBbling all over the place, yes/no, black/white. AW perhaps should bite a few heads off, get more involved, show animation, openly criticise players, but he doesn't, it isn't him. People don't like it, me neither, but it isn't going to change with a website's posters attacking each other. I believe many coaches show involvement but in general the players define the club, the team, much of the control probably takes place off the pitch, in the dressing room for example. This is possibly my biggest criticism of AW, he expects so much from his players because of a personal investment, and isn't able to maintain an acceptable performance level often enough, (though his track record is pretty impressive). In other words he cannot get the best from the men representing him and us. A failing? Of sorts, but this could change in the blink of an eye with a leader in the side, that could prove to be the catalyst. In the meantime some moan and say the same things over and over, some don't. Whatever gets you through the night. - Post No. 71278


jjetplane  19:04pm 27th Feb 2015

Nice post EG you have a touch of the Derrida there! He loved to pull apart 'positive' theology too! I guess we all love ourselves now we have the instant gratification media. Monaco were most impressive in an Athletico sense. Perfectly justified and to think they sacked Wenger all those years ago. That is a dark humour. Very French, very Lacanian. - Post No. 71279


Gooner72  19:21pm 27th Feb 2015

2 more years of pain to follow sadly.....where did it all go wrong?? Leaving Highbury for the golden fleece that was European supremacy probably, I had a dream, unfortunately it wasn't the re-occurring washing machine effect that is February / March every bloody year.....Earth calling Ronald de Boer and Dennis B where are ya, where are ya!!!!!! - Post No. 71280


Exeter Gunner  19:32pm 27th Feb 2015

It seems to me, Badarse, that you're the one with the obsession with lynching AW - or rather, you're obsessed with the notion that others want to lynch him. Such melodramatic language. Of course, I should remember, you're the only one allowed to pick apart other posters, issue corrections, make digs (all in good humour of course). I've invited you several times to have a debate - not a dogfight, a reasoned exchange, as goonercolesyboy and I just managed - but you always demur. This could be on any aspect of today's team and management you like. I wonder, given your confidence in the strength of your argumentative powers and the weakness of mine (especially given the mental flaws you've diagnosed) why you won't take up the offer. It is a chance to best me, to shut me up. Something you would surely love to do. So why don't you? - Post No. 71281


jeff wright  19:38pm 27th Feb 2015

Oh dear ,my comments about you Colseyboy have obviously struck a raw nerve. So much for the theory then that where there is no sense there is no feeling! You are right though colesboy that no one cares what I say at AFC or anyone else either come to that who offers criticism against the continuous misery that goes on and on every season under Wenger's and Stan's inept rule . Then again why should they when they have geniuses like you swallowing their lies and supporting their management. You couldn't make it up. As for looking silly with your track record on this you should give up posting ... I can't think of anything that you have predicted ever coming true . It all in the end comes down to your silly mantra of 'I get behind the team'.This is just Wengeresque AKB talk for get behind Arsene and just stay stumn . I suggest coleseboy (a silly name this but hey you are a very silly man,not a boy though) that you should stick to just reading Arseblogger's mild reasonable musings with your pal lee - or your alter ego Tony pepe - and that way the world will look normal to you and you will be all happy and smiley and have no need to spend donkeys years of your sad life posting abuse to your betters on here ,as you have done with the angst ratio of your posts going up and up ever higher like a kettle coming to the boil as Arsene's career goes ever spiralling downwards . You only really want to see excuses on here for Arsene such as it was the players wot done it not Arsene! HE can't be blamed for anything , you know that this makes sense.Try and cheer up though Tony we will probably beat Everton and then you can come back with leeKFC to tell us moaners how we don't know what we are talking about . Of course if we don't beat Everton then you can always put any criticism down to a knee jerk reaction from bed wetters - while REAL GOONERS get behind the team. Even if they are to blame for the poor result... right >? - Post No. 71282


John F  20:56pm 27th Feb 2015

Aaron I think it was that 4-4 game that finally pushed me into the AMG camp. I just could not get over it and it was not aided by my Geordie brother in law winding me up.Mike I was in the clockend for that Coventry game wasn't that one the first live Big Match game and it ended 0-0.Dire days but I did not feel as frustrated as I do now.I think because such basic things are going wrong and could be easily fixed.Set the team up with the opposition in mind,play players in their right position,Strengthen areas of the team in the summer that need it rather then overloading it with players that all want to play in the middle.I just wonder if Wenger is just too much of a nice guy that is why ex players are not so critical.Silvestre said today that Wenger is too nice to his players and needs to be more ruthless.My northern wife while standing in the kitchen with her rolled up stockings on, said to me through the gap in her teeth that she is not going to shave until Wenger has gone as she is fed up with my miserable expression after the big games.At least it might cover her tats. - Post No. 71283


Patrick  20:59pm 27th Feb 2015

I think there has been a definite sea change now. The tipping point has been reached and it's a good thing. Not only are normal foes on this site sympathising and Supporting each other, The press have turned and that is significant. I'm excited now about what the next twelve months hold. Change is a good thing when needed and my god it's needed. I'm looking forward to feeling livened up again. - Post No. 71284


Johnny 99  21:00pm 27th Feb 2015

We have been here so many times before.The 8-2 the 4-4 Newcastle,AC Milan,Birmingham cup final,Bradford Blackburn, 6-3,5-1,6-0 All games that happened in the last 5 years.And what has changed?Nothing.What lessons were learned?.Are you telling me a manager of Bayern,Barca and Real would be still in a job an hour after a 8-2 defeat.Lets get into the real world nothing is ever going to change.Even when Wenger goes Kroenke will bring in another Wenger clone.This once great club died the day Kroenke was invited onto the board by David Dein. - Post No. 71285


Chris  21:12pm 27th Feb 2015

Exeter - That's a bit of a weird offer you're making to Badarse. He's hardly going to respond positively when you goad him like that, is he? Not content with making a cod-psychoanalysis of a man you don't know, you've been accusing him of hypocrisy and all manner of unpleasantries and try to create some strange personal duel between the two of you... And you accuse him of weird obsessions! Give the man a break, ffs. - Post No. 71286


tony pepe  21:31pm 27th Feb 2015

its laughable that as soon as someone criticises our old fart jeff, he resorts to believing in his brain that it must be the same person. believe it or not jeff, many people have every right to oppose your opinion. after all freedom of speech is your policy so it must be the rest for the people too. I don't question your opinion but I do question your pathetic attitude if they do not share your view. oo to be. - Post No. 71287


Hiccup  22:02pm 27th Feb 2015

FFS Online Gooner, can you please drag Simon Rose out of hiding and get him to write an article for the benefit of the AKB's. They're all upset and find it a shame that the reports on here aren't dressed up in the wishy washy style of 'we dust ourselves down and go again arseblog.' Or just post any one of his articles from the last 5 years where his enthusiasm at the prospect of finishing 4th won't make them feel as isolated as they do. - Post No. 71288


west facing cannon  22:11pm 27th Feb 2015

Good shout Johnny 99. David Dein inviting Kroenke onto the Board has turned out to be a massive own goal as was the betrayal that was the 1991 Bond scheme. It is the self serving attention seeking business types that have ruined football. The only language these people understand is money. They know the price of everything and the value of nothing. They have been steadily infiltrating the game for 25 years now initially using the Taylor Report as a smokescreen to hike prices and evict as many working class people out of stadiums as possible. The thing about a lot of the people at the ' E ' place is they are really not that interested in the ' belonging ' bit of Arsenal so they'll happily stomp up the readies without asking any questions. I started watching Arsenal in the seventies and eighties and while things of course weren't perfect at least the club had integrity. WENGER OUT ! - Post No. 71289


goonercolesyboy  22:19pm 27th Feb 2015

jeff you continue to make things up, but when you are delusional then you know no different. As I have said many times, you are not a supporter of Arsenal, you are a supporter of your ego and your self indulgent nonsense. You have nothing to offer other than the same negativity. How you sleep at night with your obvious internal anger and strife is not something I care about. You are most certainly paranoid, a well founded point made by Trev. You are by far and away the most hated person on this site...keep up the good work. - Post No. 71290


Badarse  22:19pm 27th Feb 2015

'Do not forsake me, oh my darling...', thanks Chris, nice calm balanced words. You would be in my team. OK, what line comes next, 'The clock it ticks, the clock it tocks. Time again for the Music Box. With Willum and me and a friend or two, we'll ...' - Post No. 71291


jeff wright  22:33pm 27th Feb 2015

Tony /colesy give it a rest please your unrelenting support for Arsene and attacks on others who don't follow this slavish support that you indulge in puts you and other AKB's in a minority on here. My word Colesy hatred is a strong word we don't even know each othere,not that I particularly want to know you after you wished I was dead ! B You really are one screwed up sad hombre. Grow up and try to act your age you complete tool. - Post No. 71292


Hiccup  22:36pm 27th Feb 2015

I luv ya Jeff! Watching you wind the AKB's up is rather entertaining. Can you believe anyone would let themselves get so wound up over this? It speaks volumes. - Post No. 71293


jeff wright  23:06pm 27th Feb 2015

Hiccup , Keyboard warriors everyone of 'em the AKB .You couldn't make it up. - Post No. 71294


Gooner72  23:24pm 27th Feb 2015

AKB = No he doesn't!!!!!!! - Post No. 71295


Exeter Gunner  0:47am 28th Feb 2015

Nice of you to butt in, Chris, but I'm surprised you're interested - what has this got to do with whose got the higher wage bill between Arsenal and Chelsea? If you'd been following, you'd see I've only been doing to Badarse what Badarse does to others - cast judgments, make corrections, show him where he's going wrong. However, it seems it's okay for him to do it, but not to get it back. Maybe it's because he does it in a 'this is for you own good' way, whilst I'm more strident in tone. As for giving him a break, if that's what he really wanted, why would he write a post talking of my defects and malfunctions if not to provoke further? I suspect he's rather enjoying this. However you are right in that the game has gone too far now. Enough's enough. - Post No. 71296


Gaz  7:55am 28th Feb 2015

In all honesty if I saw a real solid arguement made for Wenger staying I'd gladly change my own tune and follow suit. Sad thing is the arguements made for Wenger going on this board (and others I have to say) make much more sense to me than those arguements made for him to stay. In-fact despite the many posts I see in Wengers favour I'm really not sure what the arguements for him to remain are other than the fact he was once a great manager-a decade ago-and other Clubs have had more money than him! And lets be honest thats a daft arguement as he's regulary lost to Clubs with a fraction of our budget over the past six or seven years. As for the 'he's been in the CL for seventeen years' arguement that just makes him look really average as just about any other big Club given that kind of run would have won the darn thing! I honestly get the loyalty thing and I was wrong to suggest that shows a lack of passion. Perhaps its a fear of change that makes them cling onto Wenger so much? All I know is that until I see a real solid arguement made in defence of Wenger remaining I'm firmly in the 'Out camp'.....when I can be bothered thinking about it that is!!!... - Post No. 71297


Badarse  8:19am 28th Feb 2015

No tears shed in SW6 methinks, another voice against Putin silenced forever. Peace E/G. Gaz, am on the 'hurry up', but an interesting post. I will try to let you into my world given half a chance so this may come in separate posts-it could help perhaps. I am not an AKB though I love Hiccup's humour and can be an AKB for that alone. I am not a doddering old fool, though they too have a story. I am a quiet and very loud individual, most people are contradictions. We have covered my AFC credentials, which I paraded for your benefit, despite E/G wanted to treat it like a coconut shy-he has a fixation, but is easily forgiven, why I constantly forgive Ron, so E/G is small potato, but a creamy, buttered mash variety. If you accept that I am a reasonable, balanced...whoops, sod it, dropped me croissant...chap we can begin. I am perpetually disappointed in AFC, and constantly lifted by them. So that suggests resilience, or stupidity. Another programme later buddy. - Post No. 71298


Chris  8:56am 28th Feb 2015

Exeter - Sorry, couldn't help myself, what with "cod-psychoanalysis of people you've never met" and hypocrisy being two of my favourite subjects. Along with irony - such as where you accuse Badarse of making it all about him and then repeated challenge him, colesy etc to 'duels'... I suspect we're all guilty of double standards from time to time, so it seems a bit of a cheapshot really, that's all my point was. BTW, you're not the reincarnation of Stroud Green Road Boy? Or his son perhaps? You've got a very similar voices, although you come across as perhaps younger. - Post No. 71299


Bard  9:01am 28th Feb 2015

Baddie; someone's posting in your name. The bulletproof, zenlike Baddie who has just posted is surely not the same delicate flower who throws his toys ( or more accurately his router) out the window whenever we lose. - Post No. 71300


goonercolesyboy  9:24am 28th Feb 2015

Hiccup, jeff doesn't wind me up mate, I laugh at his drivel and love to respond. There isn't a positive bone in his body when it comes to Arsenal football club. Let's trade hate with despise then shall we jeff, if that makes you feel better. Either way it adds up to the same. - Post No. 71302


KC  9:42am 28th Feb 2015

We had our best ever years under Wenger and great credit should go to him and no doubt never forgotten. What ever is said on here we are at least not back in the dark days at the end of GG reign and the football is at least watchable although this can be difficult at times Wenger has not yet taken us to the depth of the boring crap GG produced. But in my opinion change is required and a passion brought back. As I have said many times Diego Simmone is the man. Still believe we we will finish third but a team that can not defend and does not address the issues will only go so far. My anger is because we have a manager who mentions suicidal defending but then takes no blame, beg my pardon but he is the manager the defending is his Dna of the team, he buys the defenders decides how we play etc etc if they perform as they did on Wednesday he should be big enough to take responsibility. Wednesday's defending was so similar to the mancs game lessons never learnt. Pers, goalkeeper are not good enough but until we have a different attitude I doubt changing players will address the bigger problem. Arsenal under Wenger are and have been defensively naive for many years hence the failure to challenge for the biggest trophies sadly Wenger will not accept it. I am a great fan of watching good football played on the floor taking it to the opposition and placing an emphasis on the offensive side but any team that wants success must be defensively sound and go on the pitch with a small fear they will be dropped if they don't perform sadly Wengers teams lack both. - Post No. 71303


Hiccup  9:49am 28th Feb 2015

Guys, it's all got a little bit over excitable on here over the last 48 hours, so I think we just need to take some of the emotion out of proceedings. If we're not careful, we will once again see an exodus of AKB's fleeing to Arseblog, and will be just left with Westie's odds and Bob wilson quotes once again. Be careful what you wish for. The AKB's just want to be loved and to feel wanted. I suggest we dedicate today to the AKB's, and officially name today as National AKB Day. A day where they have breakfast in bed. A day where we sympathise and take on board what they say without question. For one day, put on a pair of those rose tinted glasses (free in this week's Radio Times) and see the world in their light. Let's even help them along. The referee hasn't been blamed once yet for Wednesday which is a miracle in itself. Well I say there was an infringement on chamberlain for their third goal and a strong suspicion of offside with the through ball. See how easy this sh!t is? The guy that thought we should have won 4-1 is underselling the team. I reckon it should have been 5-0. And before you know it, we have a 7 goal swing, and arsenal have smashed Monaco. Where David Cameron said hug a hoodie, I say cuddle an AKB. - Post No. 71304


jeff wright  10:06am 28th Feb 2015

Colesybollox you are a pathetic dumbass individual who has been ranting at others on here for donkeys years. The fact that these folk were proven right and you proven wrong obviously irks you.Especially with your big ego .Wenger is an old has been outdated manager who peaked back in 2004 and has been in decline ever since. That is a fact . You are fooling no one with your claims to just be supporting AFC ,you are an obsessed Wenger nut job end of. No real Arsenal supporter would want to see these constant humiliations that we get every season under Inspector Clueless they were bad enough when it was the top sides dishing them out but now we have the likes of the spuds and Monaco ( you know that side that were supposed to be have been an easy tie) getting in on the act. Wenger who was fired from French TV after his ludicrous performances during the World Cup on it and is a laughing stock in his own country now days still has clowns like you in this country supporting him . You couldn't make it up.He put all the blame on the team the other night for the humiliation by his former club that fired him for his incompetence donkeys years ago. These players that Wenger blamed are the same players that you say we should blindly get behind when Wenger himself says that they were useless,or suicidal , stupid is what most would say like little lost lambs. Now Wenger is the manager and these sort of performances are a common occurrence under his coaching and as I said before it's very convenient for him to take the credit ,and he does so, when we win, but to deny any responsibility for these horror shows that keep happening.His after match interviews are reminiscent of Comical Ali's tanks what tanks ? It just doesn't make sense this Arsene is not to blame it's all the players fault or the other excuses that are wheeled out like a bin of old rubbish ,but then again nothing about the AKB love-in does .I suggest that you give your fractious posting a rest pal it's like Wenger himself senseless and (yawn)boring. - Post No. 71305


radfordkennedy  10:12am 28th Feb 2015

West Facing Cannon...good post mate,what disgusts me at the moment is the way FIFA are turning a blind eye to whats going on in Qatar,70 years ago slave labour was used to construct the Western Wall defences on mainland europe,many hundreds died through starvation exhaustion and having to survive in filthy squalid conditions,the main protagonists were hunted down and brought to book....the exact same is happening now in Qatar,but because its being done in the name of football people look the other way...greed and coruption is eating football alive - Post No. 71306


John A  10:13am 28th Feb 2015

I wonder if Wenger; Regrets the move to the Emirates - has it really been so great or just taken the soul out of the club? Regrets selling RVP? Regrets selling and not buying back Cesc? Regrets not buying YaYa,? Regrets not sorting out the medical people years ago? Regrets not buying a decent keeper after Lehman left? Regrets buying sub standard players because they were going cheap? Regrets not learning from tactical mistakes they have dogged the team for 10 years? Above all does he regret not leaving after the FA Cup win to at least go out on some sort of high?. I personally have all these regrets. - Post No. 71307


Website Admin  10:28am 28th Feb 2015

A couple of house-keeping points. Firstly, refrain from personal abuse in comments. By all means criticise and debate, but there has been an increase in vitriolic remarks made about other posters. In the most part we have let these go, but we also want to encourage participation from as a wide a cross section of the Arsenal support as possible - whatever their views - and it's our view that abusing one another will not assist in this regard. The comments section is a fine forum for sharing views, but it would be boring if everyone held the same opinion, so contrary to what some posters have suggested, we do not want posters who take an alternative stance to articles or other posters to go and use other websites. Secondly, if you have evidence of people posting under different names, by all means contact us at thegoonerfanzine@btinternet.com and we will investigate. We try to monitor this closely and have removed posts in the past. Accusing people of doing this without evidence may now be considered a breach of house rules which could result in the post being removed. Sorry to be tetchy over this, but we are listening to feedback from visitors to the site. Thanks. - Post No. 71308


Alsace  10:33am 28th Feb 2015

The players? I was thinking about this. Over 17-18 years, the players change but the mistakes are the same. There is only one common denominator - The Manager and his "tactics". - Post No. 71309


Bob  10:40am 28th Feb 2015

Ian, your last paragraph is a perfect example of "learned helplessness", a well-documented pyshological response. Conditioning people to give up and say "what's the point". If anyone's remotely interested, google Martin Selligman. And if we could have attracted only the likes of Eriksen or Suarez (back in 2011) instead of Ozil without having Champions' League football....is that supposed to convince us of how vital it is that we qualify for it every year, even though we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting even remotely close to winning it since Wenger lost the plot many years ago? - Post No. 71310


Bard  10:54am 28th Feb 2015

Hiccup; nice thought but I don't think it will help. Glad the Webed has commented on the abuse. I am still reeling from being called a 'coked up numpty'. I bought a book on cod psychoanalysis to find out what it meant. Apparently it derives from being a listener to Alan 'its a big big big game' Brazil in the mornings. The other downside is I have people stopping me in the street asking where they can get some 'gear'. All in all Ed my life has been a misery .I much prefer the f*** off down the lane of old to these modern day abusive terms. Is Wenger out an abusive term? - Post No. 71311


goonercolesyboy  11:35am 28th Feb 2015

jeff again your regurgitated posts are mindless and boring, even the web editor has had enough. I laugh at your despair, your inability to see that no one at Arsenal cares what you write, and not many on here do either. Keep posting regurgitated rubbish and I will continue to respond. Great game this....can hardly wait for your reply. - Post No. 71312


Website Admin  11:42am 28th Feb 2015

@goonercolesboy - For clarification, the post you are referring to is from Website Admin, not the Editor and please do not assume we have had enough of Jeff or anyone else's posts. That is a completely inaccurate assessment of the comment. We are responding to feedback regarding specific elements of posts. - Post No. 71313


Exeter Gunner  12:04pm 28th Feb 2015

Peace Badarse, though any more talk of coconuts and small potatoes may get me going again... at least off to lunch. I guess we all have our fixations, don't we? And Chris, yes, we can all be guilty of double standards. Your 'duel' with Ron shows you're not always a man of calm, balanced words. And do I have an online dad as well as a real one? Maybe if they club together they'll be able to afford take me to the Arsenal. - Post No. 71314


jeff wright  12:21pm 28th Feb 2015

Coleseyboy or can I call you Cashley ? You should have taken my advice and stayed quiet but you have to keep on and on and yawn... on... with your delusions ... you really could not make it up. - Post No. 71315


Tony Evans  12:31pm 28th Feb 2015

Gaz - I have a 17 year old daughter too but she has absolutely zero interest in any football and never has understood the powerful emotions (both good and bad)(virtually all bad at the moment) that Arsenal generate in me. Like you I blame Wenger 100% for bringing me to my lowest point ever with Arsenal. It's not the board that decides on tactics, picks the team, buys the players and refuses to learn from past mistakes - it's old clueless himself. I have gone through all the dark days of the mid 70s, and 1981 to 1986 wern't too good either, but nothing has prepared me for a manager that keeps making the same old errors again and again, refusing to alter the expansive gung-ho playing style he so loves, even in the face of a mountain of evidence that says he must do. Arsenal are like a rudderless ship under Wenger with no spine or leadership, and too many of the same type of players. The likes of you and me have been saying this for years and to hear Wenger say the defending v Monaco was suicidal made me laugh out loud. Of course it was you idiot - what the hell have you been looking at these past 7 or 8 years? Perhaps if he wasn't so preoccupied with his duvet coat zip he might have noticed some of the suicidal defending from years gone by and actually done something to rectify it! - Post No. 71316


Westlower  12:54pm 28th Feb 2015

@Hiccup. The reason no one is playing the ref for Wednesday's result is simply that they perform to a higher standard than English refs, eg Martin Atkinson. When there's 3 minutes of added time the ECL refs blow after precisely on 3 minutes. An English ref, probably conditioned by years of officiating at OT, will play on a bit longer just to see what develops. SKY like a thrilling climax as it attracts more customers, much like Bard's domineering Helen. @RadfordKennedy, Are you playing at Cheltenham in 10 days time? - Post No. 71317


Westlower  13:08pm 28th Feb 2015

Please excuse my obvious error in the previous post, should have read on one is blaming the ref, not playing. Hiccup always gets off on my errors so at least I've put a smile on his face. I'm afraid it's a combination of approaching 3 score years & ten, plus my head is full of Cheltenham runners & this won't change until that particular festival is over. As it's closely followed by the Flat season starting at the end of March I'll have to take my annual leave until November. If I don't stay focused on finding horse race winners I'll most likely go skint. I'll pop back intermittently when time permits, particularly if something sensational occurs with AFC. Good Luck to all of you, WOB's & AKB's, Gooners all. Always back winners! - Post No. 71318


A Cornish Gooner  13:15pm 28th Feb 2015

Badarse/Chris. I am happy to join the current rapprochement, and am willing to bury the hatchet (not literally) To help lift the gloom, one of my favourite Arsenal cup performances is on youtube, the 1933 cup final v Liverpool. I'm sure most of you have seen it a hundred times, but it always makes me laugh, and makes me proud to see things done 'The Arsenal way'. The smoking goalkeeper adds a modern touch! Charles 'Charlie' Charles. An Arsenal legend. Just google Harry Enfield Arsenal - Post No. 71319


Badarse  13:24pm 28th Feb 2015

Gaz, if I added that I agree AW doesn't do his job without errors then I would be speaking for all of humankind too. I would like to think everything I have touched has been golden, in truth all pretty tarnished, though generally did my best, and quite often I winged it. I've coached, skippered, also player-managed teams-sometimes I had to tread water, people do. All men have feet of clay, women do too but are often seen in red sling backs, (love sling backs but they play havoc with my knees). We all need to recognise that AW has credentials which put him in his current job, many accept his past achievements but are long since critical of recent history. The water has been muddied by our move, the huge financial rewards of the EC and an owner regarding AFC as a business opportunity. Often it is impossible to step back from the edge, or at least very difficult. He is totally committed to AFC, all 'in the know' seem to agree on this. His salary is irrelevant in this. He has a poor strategy? Perhaps, substitutions are questioned but most would disagree over them-either way it is par for the course in my book. Sadly in human nature most form an opinion and stick to it. I just do not believe he is all the things people claim. Yes he may be, yes someone may perform better, yes, yes, yes, to generalised criticisms but I would never see anything near enough to warrant a lynch mob approach. I support my club, my players and the manager, and yes, like most, as westlower constantly explains, shall support any new men, including a new manager. Take a look around, many in your camp virtually despise AFC-they openly say so. They vilify players of today, denigrate icons of the past, and slag off any likely new arrivals. Be careful who you climb into bed with, it could be Helen. I hope this registers in some small way. Good old Arsenal. - Post No. 71320


Roy  14:08pm 28th Feb 2015

Tony Evans, well said mate. I'll give you another example of how far I've fallen, and I'm sure you can relate. Next weekend I have a family wedding to attend. I was hoping against hope that TV wouldn't move the game from Saturday, therefore I'd be forced to give it a miss and catch up later. In other words, I could have been enjoying myself. Now it's been switched to Monday I'll be tuning in for more torture no doubt. Now, when this same sort of situation used to occur in the not too distant past, it would have caused endless arguments with me trying to work out how I could catch the game by any means possible that even GCHQ would have been proud of my stealth tactics ! Now it doesn't seem worth the hassle. How sad. But at least I won't end up the same way as our defending - suicidal ! - Post No. 71323


radfordkennedy  14:40pm 28th Feb 2015

Westie...Hello mate yes I shall be screaming and shouting and trying to go hands and heels in the last furlong myself again this year,I've cleared the diary for the Thursday and Friday and will be keeping a lookout for spring heeled on whom I had a nice payday last year,and I would think Mullins won't be far from my thoughts either,hope you have big tickle yourself mate - Post No. 71324


jjetplane  14:57pm 28th Feb 2015

As I get to the end of these posts while AFC sinks further into the plague mud of ghostly Londinium I thank the eternal match-sellers of Mount Pleasant I am a WOB. Well said BARD, RON, MC, HiCcUP, JeFFW and all you other folk who make Arsenal still a word and a culture worth savouring. Maybe one day there will be a football club happily nestled in dear old Holloway. But for now - howabout the Eagles away! ..... Beat West Ham who beat Tottenham who beat Arsene FC and so the cycle spins as long as the PL resembles the arnaments industry ..... Talking of Guns - where are they now? - Post No. 71325


Tony Evans  15:02pm 28th Feb 2015

Roy - can definitely relate to that, mate. I remember being absolutely gutted having to miss the LIverpool FA Cup final because of a friends wedding and trying every trick in the book to find out what was happening. Mega depressed when I eventually found out we had been robbed by two late Owen goals. Indifference is the word now which makes me very sad really.K - Post No. 71326


jeff wright  15:03pm 28th Feb 2015

It's a bit much when the usual suspects that constantly post their same old yawn inducing mantras of OTT optimism complain about 'regurgitated'points being posted about failures. The reason why they keep being posted is because the same mistakes are constantly being made and the same excuses served up to try and explain them away.Who are we supposed to blame for this if not Wenger? - Post No. 71327


Westlower  15:39pm 28th Feb 2015

@R/K Your thinking is on the right track with prioritising the Mullins runners. I'm interested in Nichols Canyon who's entered in the Supreme on Tuesday & the Neptune on Wednesday. With Douvan also entered in the Supreme & favourite to win, I'm assuming Nichols Canyon will run in the Neptune. Will decide how to play when the declarations are made on Sunday & Monday. - Post No. 71328


maguiresbridge gooner  16:12pm 28th Feb 2015

Have you head the latest offering from the big useless german? (BUG) after TOF refused to give them the hair dryer treatment after the Monaco humiliation instead giving then the silent treatment i'm sure they'll learn from that, what an excuse for a manager, you couldn't make it up, the big useless german (BUG)reckons they were over motivated, you really couldn't make it up could you. This waste of space of a manager has certainly done a good job of schooling his players to do what he does talk pure shyte. - Post No. 71329


maguiresbridge gooner  17:08pm 28th Feb 2015

Hiccup, that reminds me of the last time a particular day was mentioned, from some deluded AKB masquerading as David Icke or was it the other way round, however we were warned about Tuesday and we were all worried we were going to wake up dead or with two heads or even worse finding out we were related to wenger, and we're still waiting, i think there's more a chance of that happening and anyway we haven't heard TOF's gobbledegook presser for tomorrow yet. - Post No. 71330


goonercolesyboy  17:10pm 28th Feb 2015

jeff if you think anyone is listening to your regurgitated posts then think again. It is a complete waste of time. So come up with something new and debatable will you? If not then you get the same response from me. Badarse, yes Cheltenham is almost here, happy days. - Post No. 71331


DW Thomas  17:23pm 28th Feb 2015

Been reading the posts regarding Monaco from this and Kev's article. I found myself not even caring anymore to post. Everyone is saying the same things, now going on 10 years! AKBs defend this manager to no end. Those that can't stand Wenger anymore state how badly we need change. It's all just so monotonous! Like having the same sandwich every day for 10 years! It used to taste great, but now it's just lost its flavor! At our core we could be so much more. Wenger lackeys don't think that and thus indulge their hero despite no real glory of any kind. Chelsea are gearing up for another trophy. While we argue about losing at home to a side that was without 4-5 of its best and still beat us. 3-1. This was not Barca or Bayern or Real. Monaco! The discussions of wages and spending are all smokescreens to hide or defend the shambles of never ever getting better as a club. Invincibles to this? Stadium move to be the best and we can't beat Monaco at home. It wouldn't be a crisis if this hadn't happened for years now! Wealthy spoiled people making themselves wealthier while we eat it up like we're starving for it! What a joke being a fan of this club has become. - Post No. 71332


maguiresbridge gooner  17:46pm 28th Feb 2015

John A, he regrets Fook all mate, his ego won't/doesn't allow him to, anyway as far as he's concerned he is/was right. - Post No. 71333


maguiresbridge gooner  18:09pm 28th Feb 2015

Bard, i hope it hasn't drove you to drink, although i wouldn't be surprised if TOF has years ago. - Post No. 71334


jeff wright  18:40pm 28th Feb 2015

'Im not surprised that you are looking forward to the Cheltenham Festival Cashley after all there is not much else sporting wise for you to look forward to! In the meantime before the main event I had a nice little earner on the Donny Tote Placepot today I avoided M'c Coy's rides- and found my way to the end of the rainbow when BOBCATBILLY romped home in the 4.20. Sometimes I find that it's best to lower ones sights in the racing game when deciding where to invest your cash. I'm using my winnings to pay for a weeks break in Benidorm going on the 2th of March I will of course still be following eventson here and on the footall field of play. Arsene in my view should now lower his own sights on what it is possible to win this season and write the European Cup off as being a lost cause and instead go for the FAC again and the top 4 trophy otherwise called 4th place. Sometimes a scratch side does better in these sort of away games in Europe than a first team does.There is less pressure on them ,pressure being something that the likes of Ozil and co can't obviously handle very well. United are despite their on paper impressive run of results,that include beating us at the coliseum of gloom, any great shakes .A side motivated and fearless can beat them .Unfortunately this description does not fit Arsene and our players these days. Wenger should try to change this and start by dropping some players such as the big ducking German against Everton and go for a moral boosting win and then fire the team up for the trip to Old Trafford .I shall be watching how things transpire and trust me Cashley old chap if I see any of the malarkey that went on against Monaco you can be as certain as tock follows tick and that Jack and Rambo will never play a full season that I will be regurgitating some criticism for the old duffer and his all too often bottlers that unfortunately wear AFC shirts. Cheers. - Post No. 71335


Exeter Gunner  18:44pm 28th Feb 2015

jw brings up a good point. We all here take our cue from the club. The club is going around in circles. So our debates/arguments go around in circles, retreading the same ground again and again. If you're content with the way things are at the club, then you should also learn to accept the circular nature of themes on forums such as this. Basically, stop moaning about the moaners. When things shift at the club, so will the debate. - Post No. 71336


goonercolesyboy  19:08pm 28th Feb 2015

Exeter, so do you think writing the same regurgitation makes a blind bit of difference , and will change anything? As I said before no one from Arsenal football club reads this so what is the point, apart from getting it off your chest? The readers are just so tired of reading it and having to rubbish it again and again. As Badarse says, not every manager is everybody's cup of tea at any club, but the constant bashing is mindless and boring. A change will at some stage be upon us but it certainly won't be because of the posts on this site, that could be renamed the online moaner. Find another subject or move on. - Post No. 71337


maguiresbridge gooner  19:22pm 28th Feb 2015

jw, 71327, (who we all love) well said, they very conveniently forget that. - Post No. 71338


Badarse  19:31pm 28th Feb 2015

Round, like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel. Never ending or beginning on a ever spinning reel. Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon. Like a carousel that's turning, running rings around the moon. Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of it's face. And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space. Like the circles that you find, in the windmills of your mind. - Post No. 71339


jjetplane  19:32pm 28th Feb 2015

Just catching 5 live and there are AKBs on presently regurgitating the careful what you wish for twaddle but have now moved on to talking about Harry Kane! proves my theory that where you find an AKB you will find a little spud! First 'pundit' sounded a lot like WESTiE rolling out the numbers and the bloke on well is having a love-in with Harry. I like Harry too but yes - AKBs are nearer to spuds in the football methinks. Very interesting doctor WOB indeed ..... I am Arsenal! ha ha ha! - Post No. 71340


JimmyGooner  19:37pm 28th Feb 2015

@goonercolesyboy - If you dislike the repetition so much, why do you feel the need to repeat your own views so regularly? And when I say "views", I mean criticism of other posters because that's all you seem to offer. I rarely post myself because others are far better than I am at expressing their thoughts, some of which mirror my own, but I felt I had to respond to your post because it seemed so hypocritical. If you want to read something different, can I suggest you write an article for the site on a topic which will encourage more diverse comments? Just a thought. - Post No. 71341


Hiccup  19:39pm 28th Feb 2015

mg, with it being National AKB Day, I find myself disagreeing with you re the silent treatment. What could wenger say? On any other given day, we would have won that game 4-1. I hear the word naive defending being banded around. Pure nonsense. That was a masterclass in defending. Instead of focusing on the odd mistake, if you can't find anything positive in that performance then you need counselling by arseblogger. You know the procedure. For a post to be reasonable, you have to balance it with both pros and cons. It's no different to my car that won't start and has been stuck on the drive for three weeks now. The missus sounds like a wob, moaning about it being a pile of sh!t and that it needs replacing. I calmly tell her that she doesn't grasp what having a car is all about. I explain it has a fine set of new rear tyres with legal tread and windows that open and shut. She then moans that that's the bloody least I should expect from the money that I've spent on it, and then hits the roof that it's p!ssing oil all over the drive. She really does go on like a wob. I tell her she's been going on about it for too long, and if she ain't got anything different to say then f*ck off and catch a bus. i owe this new approach to life to the AKB's. I have learnt so much that will carry me through the rest of my life. Thank you. - Post No. 71342


Badarse  19:44pm 28th Feb 2015

Pure magic Hiccup. jj I wish you were magic and could make yourself disappear-only kidding. - Post No. 71343


jjetplane  20:21pm 28th Feb 2015

Believe me BADDIE am renowned for my shamanic explorations in these parts when I ghost into seemingly ordinary vistas and return with ancient jewels but talking of magic - remember that old song about the French blokie. Trying to remember how it went now. As it's national AKB day/decade let's belt it out for the old times ....' Oh -------- 's magic/he wears a magic hat/and when he saw/another three years/he said I'm having that'...... MG the narrative of over-motivation against the French minnows runs right through the Wenger hierarchy as chief AKB Keown was saying how 'the players need to calm down' .... they are too up for it which then results in losing at 'home' 1-3. Lovely point there too JimmyGooner. AkBs are past masters of repetitive spin with variable sophistication. And as EG wisely says the recurrences emanate from er de emirate ... oh ****! Anyway - another waterlogged pitch today (tough at the bottom) so rampant fixture congestion impounded by heroic souls on the pitches also having livings to make .... Oh yeah & Man Mk 2 are back at third and Everton may prove to not be so tired as those over excited little bunnies at the Wok so tomorrow may well hold marginal interest for some. ****ing love football! Thomas Crown Affair - the nihilism of it all. - Post No. 71344


Badarse  20:21pm 28th Feb 2015

To whom it may concern: There is no such thing as the past, the clue is in the word...'past'. If reality is here and now, and the past doesn't exist but in the mental meanderings of nebulous thoughts, then why give such prominence to a phantom concept, like trying to clutch smoke to yourself? Then, to compound the wastefulness of the dream, dishonour and discredit everything which does exist, right here in front of yourself? And why get a 'Bargain Bucket', when Dominos do a 'two for one' pizza deal? - Post No. 71345


maguiresbridge gooner  20:22pm 28th Feb 2015

Anyway where would we rather be tomorrow, playing a match to help us win an invisible trophy (that will give fans hard on's)and qualify for a tournament we're never ever going to win under the present excuse for a manager and to help the coffers that make the fat cats even more money and make us look good on the balance sheets as a well run club, or at Wembley in a final for a real piece of silverware that exists, and we can actually see and put in the cabinet. - Post No. 71346


KC  20:23pm 28th Feb 2015

@DW Thomas - Cheers buddy an honest straight to the point post totally agree. - Post No. 71347


maguiresbridge gooner  20:45pm 28th Feb 2015

Hiccup, roll on 12'oclock tonight. - Post No. 71348


maguiresbridge gooner  21:02pm 28th Feb 2015

JimmyGooner, don't put yourself down good post, and don't be a stranger, like some body has already said they (AKB's) think everyone should be like themselves and just brush these defeats, cock up's, embarrassments, humiliations, etc, etc, off and move on, well not a f*****g chance. - Post No. 71349


Badarse  21:12pm 28th Feb 2015

No maguiresbridge, it's just a case of manning up. Now that's the ticket! - Post No. 71350


goonercolesyboy  23:31pm 28th Feb 2015

JimmyGooner....why? I accept the ups and downs of supporting Arsenal football club. I don't need to write a piece for the sake of it. - Post No. 71351


Gaz  7:46am 1st Mar 2015

I just don't (thankfully) 'get' supporters like Goonercolesboy who get off on telling real fans what they should/shouldn't say yet offer nothing other than bland, unimaginative, unambitious almost cult like support for Wenger with no actual argument against those of us looking for a real positive change of direction at the Club! Weird... - Post No. 71352


Badarse  8:15am 1st Mar 2015

Morning Gaz. Well it is easy to tear down than build. I know all/most-as they affect me-of the traffic problems concerning this tiny island, Great Britain, how to deal with them is the difficult part. In other words sniping at anyone, your own boss, an 'opponent' on here, the Prime Minister, and so on is relatively easy, how you might perform in those positions, or in your own life is a different story. goonercolesyboy is a fan of AFC, he has had dialogue, explained and lost his cool once or twice, he perhaps wishes he hadn't, but he'll do for me-an Arsenal fan who gets annoyed and upset with criticisms of his team is perhaps a fundamental requirement of being a passionate fan-passion has been mentioned once or twice too, dude. In a frustrating situation it occurs. The same old trite arguments are offered. Demands of, 'What do you say to that? Defend it!' It is very confrontational. In real life, face to face exchanges are very polite, not on these poor excuses for conversation-a new report has recently concluded that quite emphatically. This and other cyber exchanges is wide open to abuse, why only yesterday the Webed stepped in, and not before time. In real life an approach of a rude insulting manner would be asking for a 'slap', wouldn't you agree? So much must be absorbed and filtered, occasionally our filters aren't up to much, leeway must be given. Did my Swiss roll ramblings make any sense to you? I would be interested in a view. Big game today and am putting the dubbin on my boots right now. - Post No. 71353


John F  8:38am 1st Mar 2015

The be careful what you wish for AKB mantra, may be about to come true according to Arsenal News Now which quotes Daily mail,Josh Wiggie jnr is considering sacking Wenger and putting Henry in at the end of the season.Again this is a Mail story so a large pinch of salt is needed. Where does the pinch of salt saying come from ? - Post No. 71354


Gaz  8:38am 1st Mar 2015

Morning B. Surely there's a very easy answer to what we think is a slightly complicated issue? If you're not happy with a site because the views don't mirror your own then why not just move to a site that does? I've no real problem with anyone on this site other than when they start telling other posters what/what not to do. I like this site because there are posters I can really identify with-if they all stopped posting I probably would too. It really is as simple as that for me and I guess I find it hard to accept that others don't see it as simy as that... - Post No. 71355


Badarse  9:22am 1st Mar 2015

I understand that Gaz, a simple remit as you said. I am new to all these bowls of technological minestrones, why my computer keeps jumping as I type the letter 'T', which is very frustrating as I have to delete and retype often and sometimes lose an entire post, and I don't know why it does so. I firstly tested the water here and was amazed at the locked in mind sets of those wanting to oust AW and the level of insults and poison which surrounded quite a number. I found myself trying to explain and 'educate' people to my way of thinking, and at least wanted to convey a message which broadly speaking was thus, 'I am not a blockhead, I have played and understand footie, I have coached, managed and skippered sides, I am aged so not a young JCL, have a pedigree in terms of my support, and am interested in the following, etc'. It was a portrayal of credentials to substantiate and give credence to my views. I have been character-assassinated constantly. Going out on a limb in order to explain these things just invited personal abuse, c'est la vie, I do court it. I have been around the block in life,but have news for you, it is just a gigantic roundabout-you keep going around and around, unless you say, 'Enough!' It's mainly why I refused to be painted into a corner with E/G. Having stated innumerable times my personal position and reasons, I have said, 'Enough!' Do I need to keep justifying my views for every new arrival about one subject-the same old, same old? In answer to your fundamental question I offer this, I am far from happy with my country, in many of it's dealings both at home and abroad. Walk away from it? Stay to improve it? It is something quite beautiful and deserves saving, at least improving. That I feel is the basic flaw with social ills, people abdicate, wash their hands of the angst and confrontational implications, then walk away. Someone staying is the difficult more testing part, surely? Rather than the 'Beau Geste' objective of trying to change and improve, the fall back position is at least to say here is another view, and that could at least add balance, or explain why. - Post No. 71357


John F  9:44am 1st Mar 2015

Hi baddie go into control panel then system and security/action centre/ find and fix problems.Sometimes this works for computer problems. - Post No. 71358


Hiccup  9:51am 1st Mar 2015

Morning baddie/gaz. The govt and PM come under heavy criticism for certain policies, whichever party is in power. And what we have are daily news and political programmes with reporters scrutinising, probing and asking awkward questions to those concerned. What we don't have is Jeremy Paxman telling the viewer that the Tories are in power for 5 years so just accept it for what it is. We don't have political correspondent Nick Robinson telling us that we need to support and get behind the present govt. I don't see the newsreaders defending Cameron because who else is there? So you're not happy with the way our country operates at home and abroad in certain dealings. Do you keep these feelings to yourself or openly talk to others about them? Would it be ok for someone to tell you to stop moaning about it and accept it for what it is, because you don't have the power to do anything about it? It is what it is so shut the **** up, unless you've got owt positive to say. Would you be happy to be talked to like that? Because that's all colesyboy has to offer. So he's bored of listening to jeff and despises him for it. As Jimmy Gooner says, if it's detrimenting your life to such an extent, skip over it. It's hardly a life threatening change like the govt increasing the tax on his beer? There's a couple of posters on here I don't even read and skip over, because i know what's coming. But I do love Westie, and yourself of course Mr B! You want to get your grandkids to polish your boots. That's what apprentices are for. - Post No. 71359


JimmyGooner  9:55am 1st Mar 2015

@goonercolesyboy - That's obviously your prerogative and I certainly won't criticise you for it. I'm much the same in actual fact. However, your stance is therefore surely as repetitive as those you criticise for being repetitive is it not? And it's as much their right to do so as it is yours not to. You also have the right to criticise their views if you wish of course - I'm not disputing that. I'm merely highlighting that criticising people for repeating the same things again and again without saying anything new yourself is actually a bit hypocritical. In my own opinion of course which is probably as unimportant to you as everyone else on here is to Arsenal. And so we go round again... Have a good day and here's to an Arsenal victory this afternoon. - Post No. 71360


KC  10:20am 1st Mar 2015

The only consolation from Wednesday is if we go out of the competition it hurts Wenger as he has never won it and hurts the board financially. For me I appreciate that we can not win it due to obvious weaknesses so the plus of staying in it for another round is purely financial. Therefore because of my dislike of the board I can find some weird comfort that their hurt may just may be somewhere near mine as this going nowhere situation continues. Plus when we perform so ridiculously poorly I find I am less angry and upset, Groundhog Day comes to mind. A massive question arises, under Ferguson utd often turned up and played their best football at the big matches the absolute opposite applies to Wenger we often just don't perform at all very worrying. - Post No. 71361


Badarse  10:31am 1st Mar 2015

Wow! What good, positive, and intelligent posts so far...someone will spoil it all soon, ha ha. John F, thank you so much for the advice, my wife is more computer literate-I am strictly a one finger job, man-so she will try your suggestion when she finishes putting the dubbin on my boots, grandkids are busy. Message to goonercolesyboy, I see the man inside, try to display it a little more obviously for others to see-your views demand a wider audience. Hiccup, good morning buddy. You are so right in your statement of course. The thing is if I met a friend who just wanted to sing the praises of a Nazi party, he would cease to be a friend. If he wanted to pick out one or two aspects of their core belief I might try to dissuade him and explain what I considered to be his oversights or oversimplifications. I hate to give up, it is a serious personal flaw, and on occasions has got me into trouble down the years-I am improving though and should have mastered this trait when I grow up. This means I would persevere until I reasoned and then said, enough. I would avoid this subject in the future when in his/her company. I am always ready for a political discussion but can pretty much deduce a person's position in a statement or two. I also know it is virtually impossible to encourage and achieve a reversal of thought in most. I think the best I can do is appear a sensible well-informed chap with alternative views. At least that way someone may respect my position even if not sharing it, with an outside chance of possibly amending the most strident of aspects. Where I live many are swerving towards UKIP, I couldn't change their views, though would challenge any who gave it large in my presence, but that is a territorial thing, so is Arsenal! - Post No. 71362


Exeter Gunner  10:44am 1st Mar 2015

Great analogy Hiccup and good stuff from Gaz and JimmyGooner. Obviously those constantly moaning about the cyclical nature of themes on here are themselves constantly repeating themselves. Perhaps they could suggest what else we talk about on an Arsenal board, other than the current goings on at Arsenal? Or should all comments be restricted to variations of: "That was a bit unfortunate. Still, there was nothing that could be done as it was all due to XYZ external factors, so man up, forget it and move on". I think there are sites like that already. - Post No. 71363


Badarse  10:55am 1st Mar 2015

E/G I noticed my name missing from the accolades-naturally. I think you miss the wood because the trees are in the way, it happens regularly with yourself. I also understand that you find it difficult to let go and step back from the edge, but that is OK as long as respect is in there somewhere. Those who want to step away, and you in acknowledging it. You did pose an open question, 'what else is there to discuss'. Well no one has discussed individual performances from a really important game, let alone any suggestions why. What the ramifications may be, what might be done to alleviate it's reoccurrence etc. People just go for the jugular, 'It is AW's fault-hang him!' and, 'Where are the cowardly AKB's?' It is kindergarten stuff, so I won't play, I am going to the sand pit to make sand castles-oh no! jj has 'weed' in it again!' - Post No. 71364


Westlower  11:11am 1st Mar 2015

In response to newspaper stories intimating that Josh Kroenke would like to install his friend Thierry Henry as the next managerial appointment in the summer, SKYBET have reduced TH's odds from 18/1 to 12/1. For sure, results over the next 4 games will go a long way in deciding the fate of AW. @Jeff, Well done in winning the place pot at Donny. It's always sweeter winning when going your own way & swimming against the tide. Don't go and spoil it by picking up a nasty STD in downtown Bendidorm. Nothing worse than watching your best friend Dick Head, festering & shriveling up, before eventually dropping off! For non racing peoples information there are many famous jockeys who are Gooners, including, A.P. McCoy, Ryan & Jamie Moore & Frankie Dettori. Now, back to my Cheltenham studies, so many runners, so many races, so little time. - Post No. 71365


Exeter Gunner  11:25am 1st Mar 2015

Badarse, you've said before I just blame AW for everything, so I'm going to try and explain my position here. I do see Arsenal exist within a wider footballing context - an increasingly money driven, vulgar one, and football exists within a wider society - ditto. AW just works within this world. What he is responsible for is the footballing side of AFC. So when Arsenal tear through a team like Villa, of course he takes the credit - he's brought those players in, he's coached them to play those fine passing moves together, he's provided them with that platform to express themselves. But when Arsenal are losing games in the same manner they were 7 or more years ago, and all the players are different, I can see what the constant is. For a long time I hoped it would change, but it's been clear to me for a while now it won't. And the evidence just keeps on mounting. That's why I believe a new coach is needed, as that's the only way it will change. I think this is a perfectly rational, coherent and clear stance to have. - Post No. 71366


KC  11:40am 1st Mar 2015

EG - Spot on its the same mistakes same weaknesses season after season. Badarse at some point Arsene has to take responsibility he now has the money but the obvious comical Sunday league defending continues. We can not go forward if you don't take the defensive side of the game seriously, Pers the keeper situation are clear example that Wenger has a major block here. Look at the centre halves, holding midfielders and keepers Wenger has purchased I just don't think he appreciates the importance of football when you do not have possession of the football. - Post No. 71368


brett dadson  11:44am 1st Mar 2015

nothing will change until kroenke leaves, he is just not interested wenger has been clueless for years - Post No. 71369


jeff wright  11:48am 1st Mar 2015

Thanks for the advice Westie, but I'm not going until the 27h of this month and I have the minister for war in tow ! So the good news is that I will be posting for awhile longer on here ! I will be having a few small cautious punts myself on the Cheltenham fun fest avoiding those those nailed on certs at short prices that the bookies love. I tend mainly to bet in the Tote Pools these days on Jackpots,Place Pots and the Scoop 6 .I had the first 5 winners in that once a few years back and needed the FAV in the last at oddly enough Cheltenham, although not the Festival meeting, it was a 9/4 shot and never showed up in the race running as though it was on Mogadon ,which it most likely was, the race was won by a 20-1 chance . Anyway ,good luck with those percentage bets ,you are going to need it! - Post No. 71370


Badarse  12:04pm 1st Mar 2015

E/G and KC. Perfectly summed up and clearly understood. I too am not a long way off those positions and never have been. If you went back through the archives you might discover that. I do not fully adhere to the simplistic view that he is responsible for all AFC's ills, on or off the pitch, though he might be for many of them, but then again perhaps not. I do think he has had a damnable job and done it largely speaking in a dignified manner befitting AFC, the essence rather than this corporate beast we see before us. I also believe he possibly was the only one to achieve what has been achieved, and you can add any name to a list, AF, JM etc. I also plead mitigating factors in that he lost his foil in DD, my wife is my keel, possibly DD was his? The financial collapse muddying the move from Highbury. The arrival of dirty Russian money, then dirty Arab money complicated a straightforward approach and game plan. Sky becoming bloated and pouring money into football, and the PL taking the 'king's shilling' and changing the once proud EC into a squalid money-go-round for clubs in poll position-it's why 4th place is so important in keeping us as a club in that same position. Others disagree but I share the club's view. Never finding a leader on the pitch. England has changed my friends. The insular and narrow thinking, which was endemic with natives of these shores has evaporated. The good with the bad has altered. In the Invincible era and before we had, Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Keown, PV4, Bergy et al, captain's and/or leaders every one of them. Now they are different types of people with differing codes of practise, and I am upset at this as well, but am powerless. Right now I am focussed on my grandson's match and Arsenal's, it is enough. - Post No. 71371


jjetplane  12:22pm 1st Mar 2015

Fun this Liver/Citeh game on the radio oh oh If liver win I will smile. If Citeh win I will smile. Who else are playing today - 'bout time the Toffees got a little march on. Up the proper Arsene. Hoy JAMERSON you really tough man who just lurves Arses's little bunnies skipping sideways. Anyone else on here apart from BADDIe ever kicked a football in earnest? He almost as good as Camus! ..... What i also love about this site is that it is the WoBs who are the nice guys and JW (honourary) is a very popular chap with oodles to say about the present/continuous (groan) er WOK Wanderers. Still loving Kev's article - that was legendary in the annuals of. What d'you reckon BADDIE me old apostle with watered eyes in compression of misplaced nostalgia ..... - Post No. 71372


Badarse  12:39pm 1st Mar 2015

Afternoon jj, there was me going to say you were quite a clever lad despite posted attempts to prove the opposite, and you went and 'weed' in the sandpit again. No misplaced nostalgia chum, it is all well placed and in a box under my bed, it is in fact yourself who is locked-in to yesterday, but I have the key, it's a very thin one because it's a skeleton key, but you can use it if you want. You are on the right road-which is the one out of town-hang on, those Romans built the best roads back in the days of Highbury, ahh, those were the days; never was a bad Roman, hang on again, there is Abramovich, oh no, I'm back on that gigantic roundabout once more. - Post No. 71373


Exeter Gunner  12:41pm 1st Mar 2015

Those mitigating factors are referenced by my words on context, Badarse, as I'm sure you understood. I don't hold him responsible for all AFC's ills but it is not simplistic to look from then to now and see a constant. That's logical deduction. Possibly it is you who sees more trees than there are as you wish for there to be a forest of doubt to hide him in - 'maybe he is, maybe he isn't'. It is still possible in the modern game to coach defensive discipline. It's still possible for a manager to intervene during a match and at least try and change the way it's going. AW doesn't because he believes the players should work it out for themselves - as they once did under him to great success, though always caught short in Europe where up against better tactics. As you say, different times now, different players. That requires a different approach. He has not and will not take it. - Post No. 71374


jjetplane  12:44pm 1st Mar 2015

'singing the praises of the Nazi party' 'dirty Russian/Arab money' people on here with their agendas .... Excellent post EG re 'the song remains the same' and Stan and Arsene are a marriage made in 'dirty money' heaven as neither know ****-all about football. One of them reckons he has been in the game for thirty years. Bet he never kicked a ball when he was a kid. Coke heads and dope heads - is that all the AKBs have got? Smoke on it! ps Missing RON! - Post No. 71375


Torbay gooner  13:14pm 1st Mar 2015

Mertesacker dropped at last!! - Post No. 71376


jjetplane  13:54pm 1st Mar 2015

Liverpool back from away Europa and beating Citeh! bloody AKB computations! Personally think the BFG should be playing 'cause it's more fun now! Bloody crowed up in the 'attic of dirty money.' Like Billy Smarts never went away. Rodgers looking good and young now! ha ha! - Post No. 71377


Bard  14:03pm 1st Mar 2015

Some interesting posts today must have something to do with it being a rest day. I like Exeters idea of going round in circle's, although I prefer the idea of spiralling out of control slowly but surely. Over to Westie for the odds on Wenger seeing out the remaining years of his contract. Nothing will happen this season but one imagines that the writing is on the wall now after the debacle on Wednesday. I have noticed that the previously psychophantic media have begun questioning whether he can take the club any further. Hope you have good holiday Jeff and come back refreshed and razor sharp for more jousts with Colseybollix and the rest of the North Korean contingent. - Post No. 71379


maguiresbridge gooner  14:18pm 1st Mar 2015

Hiccup, in other words he should take his own advice and man up. - Post No. 71380


maguiresbridge gooner  14:59pm 1st Mar 2015

Exeter 71363, good post, that's why one or two have such a fascination with arseblog that's exactly what happens on there, they start talking about everything except Arsenal from broken fridge freezers, planting runner beans, tomatoes, how they slept that night, all the b****x under the sun you name it, obviously that's what some would like to start up on here (one or two have tried to no avail) but others can see through it and have more sense preferring to concentrate on what the blogs about and the real problems at the club and we all know what it and they are, so keep up the good work everybody. - Post No. 71381


jjetplane  15:03pm 1st Mar 2015

Sounds like the Wok only gets busy towards half time. Cue JAMERsON looking very masculine while listening to the Pet Shop Boys and eating a prawn sandwich while the seats emptied around him 20 mins ago. Oh well - we're off for a walk on the cliffs! Meet on the ledge and all that! - Post No. 71382


Badarse  16:14pm 1st Mar 2015

Oh dear, Arsenal have beaten Ron's team, hope jj doesn't jump off the cliff, then again...@maguiresbridge you are quite funny, in the nicest possible way, ha ha. As for your comments E/G, all very plausible, but you make bridges to fill the gaps of info, and they always support your overview, lots of vague interpretations, lots and lots, but this only builds up a land swell of feeling amongst the WOBs, others just interpret what they think they know slightly differently. Robin said AW can hide in his part of the forest anytime. - Post No. 71383


Exeter Gunner  16:23pm 1st Mar 2015

Don't think any of us can do any more than come up with a plausible theory, so I'll take that as a compliment. The land swell offers a clearer view than the forest, at least. - Post No. 71384


Badarse  16:31pm 1st Mar 2015

See, as I said E/G, we perhaps are not so far apart. People see mostly the same signs and signals, then personal interpretations take a hold. I cannot be easily swayed, though used to constantly sway on the North Bank, I've even been known to sashay across the terracing, though my Cossack dance routine is now best left to the Online Gooner Virtual Summer End of the Pier Show-my knees cannot take the strain. Jamerson that third place is occupied again. - Post No. 71385


SMITHY  16:55pm 1st Mar 2015

Good win- average performance. Midfield still not quite working right. Glad BFG WAS DROPPED,hope Gabriel can adjust to the frentic pace, better prospect for Arsenal's future. City can be caught, if the team and its manager start to prepare for each game looking at the oppositions strategy as a starting point. - Post No. 71386


goonercolesyboy  17:14pm 1st Mar 2015

The problem I have on here is when we win, which is often there is always a negative spin, they hit the post, it wasn't a penalty , he was offside etc etc instead of we won, played well, played ok, played poorly but still won. But like today. A win was desperately needed and it wasn't about the performance. - Post No. 71387


Tony pepe  18:00pm 1st Mar 2015

I wholeheartedly agree mate. It's all about positives and negatives. I know where I stand. Good on ya colesy. - Post No. 71388


Badarse  18:02pm 1st Mar 2015

gonercolesyboy, Olly scoring would have helped him overcome the miserable Wednesday performance-strikers need to score and a goal puts all else into perspective. Glad to see my main man Tom come on and get one. It was a gruelling game, but these are the ones we need to win, even if by grinding out a result. We had the advantage of an extra day's rest and a home game, they had the belief a good Euro win brings, whilst we had the reverse. Am off for a Ruby tonight as my grandson's team came from a goal down at HT against the team currently top and won 3-2, so a double as both the sides won, ha ha. You should see how wide my smile is fella. By the way, you haven't been out secretly trying to book a week in Benidorm have you? - Post No. 71389


Man United Killer  18:05pm 1st Mar 2015

Just in case someone missed it, Fabragas just won his first trophy on his England return.Didn't have to wait 10 years. - Post No. 71390


jjetplane  18:10pm 1st Mar 2015

Everton were awful which is what Arsene FC need to get back to third though well imagine that will be occupied by Liverpool come the end of season with the other Mancs and the Wok bunny squad fighting over another virtual piss in the football wind. Wonderful walk and just the ten miles today before the rains come in. Life is delightful if you still have a bit of movement but anyway I will leave Brian to talk to himself for a week on here or until another insignificant implosion. Do you ever see any football in the flesh? Hilarious! Have a good growl. You have apparently earned it. ps Just heard Wrighty say 'Ar..... were there for the taking' which seems to be the view of most pundits .... oh dearie me. - Post No. 71392


maguiresbridge gooner  18:19pm 1st Mar 2015

Man United Killer, you can be sure it wasn't missed not by anybody, it's just a case of some following and thinking as their leader does. - Post No. 71393


jeff wright  18:20pm 1st Mar 2015

A win will be desperately needed in every game now colesyboy with Liverpool now on our case for 3rd or 4th and United as well with those desperados still to play us And we have the Chavs to play as well .So as you rightly say the win today was a desperately needed one. Wthout wanting to be sounding negative about it wil will have to play alot better than today against the better sides.To me though leaving aside the obviously good result it was tedious affair a game of two sides never making one pass when 5 will do,anyone who thinks that Martinez should replace Wenger must enjoy watching paint dry! Home advantage gained us the day as it usually does against sides in the lower part of the table and Ospina had to be on his toes a bit too much for my liking but did well. I suspect that he is likely to be busy until the season is done with the claims of our midfield being stronger now looking like just another Coq and bull story.Arsene only got to his feet afer Rosicky scored the second he looked nervous with the ball flying about around our goal and Ospina havingto make desperation tackles and saves ,the second goal relieved the tension though,a case of phew! So on to desperate QPR's little gaff under the floodlights midweek and a different sort of test for our lot, that could be a little nervy wtih both sides desperate for the 3 points. , - Post No. 71394


Badarse  18:23pm 1st Mar 2015

The wicker man jj has spoken. Arsenal winning must seriously eat you up buddy. Read a chapter of Camus, that'll put a smile on your face. Still missing Ron? Then of course jeff is going away for a week-was it something you said? - Post No. 71395


goonercolesyboy  18:42pm 1st Mar 2015

Fine lines Badarse, Giroud could or should have scored three on Wednesday and this battering from the media would have been unfounded, still he didn't, we lost and the yo yo of supporting Arsenal carries on. He may not be the ultimate answer but he is useful to what we can do at the moment. Benidorm? No thanks. Barbados for me at the next international break. - Post No. 71396


Man United Killer  18:43pm 1st Mar 2015

Jamerson let's just ignore the fact that you would have been singing a completely different song if Lord Wenger's men had lifted that trophy.And yes it's a trophy - Post No. 71397


jeff wright  19:27pm 1st Mar 2015

That's not how it looked when we lost to Swindon and Leeds in it Jamerson and you are old enough to remember that.Nor the ones that we won with GG either I still have fond memories of Charlie Nic scoring his brace v a good Liverpool side at Wemberley. So cut out the bullshine. Of course Arsene lost both League Cup finals he contested, one to the chavs and the other to relegated Brum. The chavs like City last season have bigger fish to fry anyway but players want medals as well as imaginary 4th place ones .Even our players so let's hope they defend the trophy they won last season at Old Trafford because realistically it is the only one they will win.The FAC is only like the LC a Ropey Cup class one but has more history attached .Wenger 's done well in it but he has 19 years to do so unlike some other managers. ... I should point out again that I am not going away on my break until the 27th ! - Post No. 71399


jeff wright  19:46pm 1st Mar 2015

Giroud had 3 good chances today and missed 2 of them so if you add the 4 misses v Monaco that is 1 goal from 7 chances in our last two games against ordinary oppo at home.That is not top draw by any reckoning. He needs too many chances to score and against top sides you don't get that. He's a goodish striker but not a great one, great ones would score more goals from the chances that he gets. Oh dear me,Sanchez is not smiling anymore he looks a shadow of the player he was in the first half of the season.The Wenger syndrome is obviously affecting him. The stories about why Poldolski was never played much by Arsene that it was down to him being critical of Wenger's tactics in the changing room look likely to be true. I liked the one where Wenger infuriated by the German international's comments on the lack of tactics came into the changing room and chucked a box of toy soldiers on floor crying out,ze's are the British and French armies at Waterloo ! Then asking Pold ,do you want to play soldiers ? Pold replied,ja can I be the British? ! Le Emperor was not amused. - Post No. 71400


jjetplane  20:25pm 1st Mar 2015

Nice one JW and poor old Sanchez looks as tired as a Chilean miner and who wouldn't carrying that lot for a season. he would do better at the scousers - they work harder. He would appreciate that. imagine the misery of playing fiddle to the likes of Giroud. AKBs do not seem overly convinced by the win today. Where be thy pride and joy at such leisurely feasts? ...... - Post No. 71401


jeff wright  20:38pm 1st Mar 2015

jj Sanchez has found out what Arshavin did that Wenger is not the great manager with big ambitions that he thought that he was. Ozil the Turkish playboy has never bothered to even try and pretend that he is enjoying his time with Wenger . When you look at Wenger sitting there tensed up wringing his hands with a silent po-faced Bould looking like the grim -reaper along side and glum faced players like Chesnay and co it is obviously not happy families these days . Nights like last Tuesday's one only make for more misery in the camp. - Post No. 71402


Bard  21:34pm 1st Mar 2015

Great win today. We are now just off the shoulder of the top teams. i see great things ahead. I see an era of domination. Wenger can manage Arsenal into his 80'sor even his 90's or into eternity. I have grown to love 4th place. - Post No. 71405


maguiresbridge gooner  22:54pm 1st Mar 2015

jw, jj, yes the wenger syndrome, maybe it hasn't taken to long for reality to set in with Sanchez, and maybe the AKB's have finally realised things don't look as rosey in wengers garden of Eden as they used to after another low key win with no whoopees and boners, maybe reality is setting in there too at last, with the brothers grim sitting there today looking like strangers and with old father time himself sitting there looking lost and like death warmed up. - Post No. 71406


Danny  1:09am 2nd Mar 2015

The Arsenal beat a crap Everton team today and were poor we need a new coach. Wenger and Bould need to go - Post No. 71407


Chris  7:58am 2nd Mar 2015

Jeff - You can't just pluck out the last two games and suggest that gives a fair impression of Giroud's effectiveness. Thus season, he has scored 9 goals from 44 attempts (ratio 0.20) whereas Sanchzx has scored 9 from 44 attempts (ratio 0.16). Yes there are caveats re playing style, but the bare stats don't look too bad for Oliver.... - Post No. 71408


Chris  8:09am 2nd Mar 2015

Sorry, for the typo - should have been 12 from 75 for Alexis - the ratio was correct though! - Post No. 71409


jeff wright  9:33am 2nd Mar 2015

Your stats are again misleading Chris,Olly is a number 9 outright frontman whereas Sanchez is being played in a midfield role by Wenger .Olly gets more chances laid on for him than the Chilean does so Olly's stats are entitled to be better. You haveto compare Giroud's stats with other strikers to work out how he compares with them. My guess off the top of my head is that our blokes are worse against the other top sides strikers in the big crunch games that count when the medals are won over his time with us. - Post No. 71410


Badarse  10:38am 2nd Mar 2015

Good old Fabregas, won his first medal in his first season back in England in 2015, Man United Killer. Am genuinely pleased for the lad, though just think that stat could have been massaged to appear even more impressive. Had he not perhaps burnt his bridges, (Stamford Bridge is fireproof on account of the pact with old Lucifer), he could have returned before Mesut, in place of him, then he would have won an even more prestigious one last May. My daughter has just returned from Barbados goonercolesyboy, so know the attraction through her stories. My query about Benidorm was I thought you and jeff were doing a tribute to 'Cliff', Summer Holiday thing. By the way, I posted recently remembering a NLD game I saw in perhaps 1962, when David 'Doggy' Court, newly arrived on the scene, scored a brace in a 4-4 draw. There is a profile of him on Arsenal. Com, where when asked the highlight of his career stated, 'Playing for Arsenal Football Club, as simple as that. I still get a buzz when I walk into the Marble Halls'. A nice lad. - Post No. 71411


Chris  12:11pm 2nd Mar 2015

Jeff - No need to be an arse. We know all that but I didn't want to state the bleeding obvious which is why I said "yes there are caveats about playing style". I suspect Alexis creates more difficult chances for himself, and also tries more 'speculative' shots from distance, whereas Giroud is presented with more opportunities in and around the six yard box - is that what you were trying to say? Nonetheless, the overall conversion rate of one in five for Giroud across the season is considerably better than the 1 in 7 you selected to try to paint a misleading picture. (Maybe if I can get the chance later I'll dig out equivalent stats for other strikers later - will be an interesting comparison in which I suspect Giroud might fare better than you think) - Post No. 71423


jeff wright  15:19pm 2nd Mar 2015

Er Chris you were the one who brought Sanchez into it not me ! I replied to what you posted regarding their stats so if Sanchez ones are not relevant then why did you use them for a comparison? Here is a list of the Prems best strikers last season -we have to wait until the end of this one to see how Olly shapes up compared with Costa and Aquero ,etc. My point though was about goals scored against top sides. I expect strikers that play up front for us ,given the chances they get to score around 15 goals or so in the Prem, mainly in home games against the riff raff. I do know that Poldolski and Giroud had poor away form and neither scored many goals against top 4 sides home or away.Danny Boy has been disappointing given the number of games he has played and all of the hype about how he would do better than at United.... Sergio Aguero (26 goals, 75.8) Luis Suarez (29 goals, 99.6) Daniel Sturridge (23 goals, 107.3) Alvaro Negredo (23 goals, 107.5) Robin van Persie (17 goals, 115.5) Jermain Defoe (10 goals, 117.3) Edin Dzeko (21 goals, 133.3) Emmanuel Adebayor (13 goals, 138.2) Loic Remy (13 goals, 144.5) Wilfried Bony (20 goals, 159.9) Yaya Toure (22 goals, 165.2) Romelu Lukaku (14 goals, 168.2) - Post No. 71439


HowardL  15:34pm 2nd Mar 2015

I'm also pleased for Cesc. He supported us for years in the face of Denilson, Almunia, Bendtner....etc - Post No. 71440


Chris  16:04pm 2nd Mar 2015

Jeff - I don't know whether you are deliberately being obtuse to try and get away from the facts, or whether that's just the way you are.. But anyway - yes, I brought up Alexis as he is generally considered our leading atacking light and is our top scorer - it was a fair point to make that Giroud compares favourably with him in terms of chance conversion, even though i qualified it by saying that they were different types of players - so there was no need for you to bundle in stating the bleeding obvious, esp as i had already alluded to it, and trying to make out I was being misleading "again", when I had gone out of my way to avoid being so. Your underhand tactics are very tedious, Jeff. As for your latest post - the point I was responding to was the one yo made about Giroud having a low chance conversion ratio -which isn't true. I don't actually know what the figures you've poste d for last season are - there's the total number of goals they scored, and then another figure - what's that? Anyway, the number of goals scored isn't actually relevant to the argument in question, which is whether Giroud has a decent chance conversion rate or not. - Post No. 71444


jeff wright  17:16pm 2nd Mar 2015

The figures are goals scored per minute Chris, as you can see Aquero although he scored less goals last term than Suarez had a better average. Oliver doesent appear on the list so I don't know what his average was . He has done well since his return in the Prem on goals per game but only scored that one goal at Poundlands against a top side and has flopped in other big games such as the spuds away and of course had a mare against Monaco in the CL. I stick with my view that he misses too many chances,as he did again yesterday, one from three scored, and that against top sides you after do better than this because you don't get as many chances as you do against lower case ones. That's why he becomes frustrated and gets all moody and broody as he did against the spuds away.Albeit they are not a top side but are proving to be more resilient lately at home doing what Wenger has never managed to do ,to give motor mouth Mourinho a good hiding. 4 points off Arsene as well this season for Poch ,you couldn't make it up. - Post No. 71451


Issue #267 - Out Now!

Gooner Editorial

19th November 2017

Arsenal Turn Up on Derby Day

Online Ed: Best performance of the season sees Gunners close gap on Spurs