Captain Arsènica : Civil War

By Kevin Whitcher

Arsenal lying to press does nothing to help the current discontent

A friend who attended the Manchester City away game on Sunday relayed to me his account of events at the stadium. To start with, before the game, Arsenal stewards were present and confiscated a number of banners suggesting that change is needed at the club before the fans holding them could enter the stadium.

Arsenal stewards confiscate banner before Man City game

What is interesting about this story in ‘The Sun’ are the words, “The club insists it is common practice to send a handful of club stewards to away trips to offer to support to travelling players, staff and fans and that no Arsenal employees were involved in the removal of anti-Wenger artwork.”

The photo of a completely unaggressive banner acknowledging the manager’s own message in the pre-Norwich game press conference being prevented from going into the Etihad Stadium by three Arsenal stewards that accompanies this article suggests that this is, for want of a better phrase, bullshit. A number of other banners were also confiscated.

That the club are prepared to lie about the activities of their staff is a very worrying signal given their supposed policy of open-ness with supporters.

There are two aspects of recent events related to fans making their voices heard with their desire for changes at Arsenal. One is that the club is evidently now censorious about supporters expressing views that do not reflect well on Arsenal, in spite of their denial. So even though individuals are paying money to gain admission, they are not allowed freedom of expression (it should be noted that the banners in question taken to the Etihad were to be displayed at the end of the match, so that no-one’s view of the game was compromised). It is beginning to resemble North Korea.

The other aspect is that there seems to be a pattern where the banners suggesting changes are displayed. What starts out as peaceful protest turns into violence when those that do not agree, rather than raise their own banners or chant support for the manager, the board or Stan Kroenke, become aggressive and violent in their determination to get to the banners that they do not agree with. The will to reach them is so great that their behaviour has become akin to those Tottenham supporters that attack Gooners at the Lane. They do not care who gets hurt, and my friend at the game on Sunday described to me how children had to be protected after the match when one banner that did make its way past the security checks was raised. The individuals that wanted to pull down the banner were not fussed that in their attempts to stop the display, kids were in danger of being injured.

The police are not slow to get involved either, as the story in ‘The Sun’ indicates. Arsène Wenger says during every season, ‘Judge Me In May’. That’s an open enough statement that fans are allowed their opinion. Frank Graham travelled to Manchester and expressed his in a non-abusive manner. He believes after this season that it is time for the manager to step down. For expressing that view, police and stewards bundled him to the ground, handcuffed him and slammed his face against the wall, as a consequence of a pro-Wenger fan trying to stop him displaying his banner.

The level of violence being used by those who do not feel that protests are correct has escalated recently because the campaign for change, although coming from different directions and far from co-ordinated, is building genuine momentum. The ‘Time for Change’ protest at the Norwich match received huge publicity and put the concept of fan disgruntlement at Arsenal firmly on the agenda. This in spite of only very limited distribution of the A3 sized banners outside the stadium.

Ivan Gazidis has gone very, very quiet in recent weeks. I seriously wonder if he will attend the annual supporters event at the stadium in June. Traditionally a Q&A with the CEO, it has been announced that he will be limiting himself to introducing the star turn (a former player), but his very presence will almost certainly lead to some difficult questions whether he likes them or not. My hunch is a more pressing commitment will emerge.

These are bad times for Arsenal Football Club. The fanbase is at odds with each other and there is open war in the stands. God alone knows what will kick off during the ‘lap of appreciation’ at the end of the Villa match but I predict that it might not be the kind of scenes the club – or indeed anyone - are comfortable with.

What Arsenal could do is come out with a strong statement indicating that supporters have every right to make their point in a non-violent manner, and that anyone that initiates physical violence on a fellow Arsenal supporter will be in receipt of a life ban from matches, and enforce it using CCTV footage. That would be a start to clearing up the highly toxic atmosphere that seems to be getting more poisonous with every passing fixture.

And it would help if the club were honest and truthful and did not tell lies to the press about the activities of their stewards. A club with a reputation for doing things the right way should not act in this way.

Time for those who make the decisions at the club to start making strong statements that will prevent fans from fighting with each other over a difference of opinion about what is going on at Arsenal, instead of disappearing off the radar.

Over to you Mark Gonella, Communications Director, because I tell you what, this isn’t great PR, and whoever is briefing the national press needs to have a long think about what they are telling them in an age where social media pretty quickly exposes untruths. Feeding the press false information where the treatment of football supporters is concerned is in pretty poor taste in the light of recent events.

Update: My friend at the game has read the above and messaged me as follows: Kids were punched alongside neutrals in the manic Wenger cult drive to grab the banner. The 14 year old nephew of the guy I travelled up with (who is on the Wenger In side of the fence) was hit and is now too scared to attend future away games. He was only standing next to those holding up the banner. We shouted at them to stop but they ignored us. They were crazed maniacs. I got hurt myself as I had to stand in the middle so the kid could get away and got dragged to the ground as they tried to grab the banner. I was neutral - I was not involved at all. My seat just happened to be next to those with the banner.

11th May 2016 09:00:00


Comments and Reaction

User comments on this article are now closed. If you want to continue the debate, why not do so on the Gooner Forum.

Mark from Aylesbury  11:29am 11th May 2016

Ultimately censorship will never work and those Arsenal supporters who help propogate should hang their heads in shame. My prediction is that by next December it will be truly ruinous . Talking about social media expect Puma to be on Arsenal's back soon. As Kevin mentions the PR surrounding Arsenal is poor. On a separate note though it is key board warrior talk I spotted threats of violence on a recent Arsenal blog ( not this site) . Not good at all. - Post No. 94502

Begeegs  11:43am 11th May 2016

To be honest, what this should do is drive people away from paying to uphold the current regime. What will happen is that those offended fans will pay up thus keeping the same regime in place. I understand that for most of the long-time season ticket holders, it is a way of life and that it is hard to accept that you are being taken for a mug. However, the reality of the situation is exactly that. - Post No. 94503

Amos  11:47am 11th May 2016

Civil War??? Get over yourself! If the protesters refused to go to games most games would still sell out. Would you be allowed to attend any cinema, concert or theatre venue and raise banners protesting that you didn't like the producers and spoiling the entertainment of others? You'd get short shrift if you did. Nobody is being denied free speech, just possibly an opportunity to get their 10 seconds of fame on TV. Anyone is allowed to express any opnion they want about the club, its manager, owners, officials, players and there has never been as many forums to express those opinions as there are now. What many people find hard to accept is that others do not share the same sense of entitlement. - Post No. 94504

Nick  11:53am 11th May 2016

Freedoms of protest and of speech are a hot topic just now not just at the Arsenal whose behavior towards those who dare criticize the club for its direction is beginning to take on Orwellian undertones, as is any protest against anything that is politically correct in the wider world, it all leaves a nasty taste in the mouth ! Personally I cannot see anything untoward happening on Sunday the vast majority of match goers are just not passionate enough as can be heard or more aptly not heard on match days with the singing from the stands being half hearted and treated as a nuisance by the corporate types who infect our crowd and by the " be careful what you wish for " morons who are complicit in our clubs gradual demise as a force in the game, so I dont really see the outbreak of true protest occurring after a match that apart from the slim chance of a st totts day resurrection has no meaning whatsoever. Now is the summer of our discontent made dreary winter by this son of Alsace! - Post No. 94505

Avenell Road  12:00pm 11th May 2016

I was really looking forward to reading about what happened to the fans with banners at the Man City game as was promised in the match report. But this is just a vague second hand account which quickly moves into an angry rant which just lends itself to more aimless vitriol. I think the Gooner should write an open letter to the club demanding change and letting them know about the circulation numbers of their readership. Ask pertinent questions in the end of season survey (as I know you do) and let the club have the results. Let's have some leadership on the issue, not just propagting more ineffective online rants. Wenger out since Birmingham at Wembley - Post No. 94506

Exeter Gunner  12:03pm 11th May 2016

Amos - except football isn't theatre, is it? People have always expressed views at grounds on players, managers, owners. So that's a false comparison. Welcome back though. Where have you been the last few months? I guess as an infrequent visitor, your absence simply coincided with the team's collapse, and now you've coincidentally returned the day after the CL place has been secured. How's the 'Arsene doesn't have the money to compete' argument holding up after the events of this season? - Post No. 94507

Amos  12:13pm 11th May 2016

I'd forgotten this place existed Exeter. The headline popped up on a newsfeed. Of course Football is entertainment and football stadiums very much theatres of entertainment. As such, if you don't like what you see then don't go. Leave those that do to enjoy what they are paying for. It's that simple. As for CL qualification that was always assured. It's why most games sell out. Ironic though that Leicester has justified the argument that you do not need big name players or managers with a proven record of success to win a title. The 'events of this season' can suit any argument. - Post No. 94508

goonersol  12:15pm 11th May 2016

Once upon a time Arsenal used to do things in style, not any more, since money raised its ugly head, fans have been taken for granted, and those who wish to complain are now treated appallingly . While we are happy to pay for all the changes ie - ground , badge, new kits etc , they are happy with us, as soon as we voice discontent they ridicule us. What a shambles Arsenal has become under this regime, those who want change are abused , what a disgrace, AKB's , Wenger , the regime etc are all welcome to each other, I can only show my feelings by not attending, most wont care , but it makes me feel better. "Judge Me in May"..........which May is that, you old fraud......Wenger & Regime Out. - Post No. 94509

Begeegs  12:18pm 11th May 2016

Amos - "Ironic though that Leicester has justified the argument that you do not need big name players or managers with a proven record of success to win a title." Also, ironic that Wenger hasn't managed to do it (nor finish in the top 2) in 12 years despite having more money than the two teams above us. - Post No. 94510

Rob  12:27pm 11th May 2016

Pretty chilling article. But I don't reckon we've seen anything yet. I can see this getting a lot worse. But don't ask the fans - any of them. Ask Sanchez. How 'chuffed' is he at this moment ? And whose shirt will he wear next season ? Arsenal's ? We'll see. And Amos - read this :- 'What many people find hard to accept is that others do not share the same sense of entitlement.' - again - and look up the meaning of 'irony'. - Post No. 94511

NickF  12:28pm 11th May 2016

I was at the City game and had 2 anti-Wenger banners taken away. They basically said you weren't allowed any pro or anti Wenger banners. The city steward's checked my banners and then called an Arsenal steward who said I couldn't take them in due to what they said (Wenger Out). I questioned them and they said if it were a club badge that would have been fine so nothing to do with the size of the banner. It was noticeable at the end there was a large pro banner so draw your own conclusions... The anti banners that did get in were held up at the front after the final whistle. The people holding them were subject to verbal abuse and other fans trying to rip them out of their hands. It is also true that they weren't too fussed about who they were pushing to get to the banners. It must also be stated than no one with a pro banner was subjected to this sort of treatment. After a few moments of this, the police got involved and basically escorted anyone with an anti banner out of the ground whilst leaving the pro banners alone. - Post No. 94512

North Upper Corner  12:28pm 11th May 2016

I might be being thick here but I'm sure the club paid for the banned reading "Love Arsenal - hate Usmanov". So it's ok for fans to agree with the club but as soon as they don't they're hushed up in some sort of weird communist form? What the hell is wrong with this club? What on earth has it become? Why has it become like this? It's a disgrace, an absolute disgrace of the highest order. It starts from the board and runs all the way down. It is rotten to the very core and nothing more than a money making machine so that Stan Kroenke can sit on his ranch puffing a cigar having done f all. It's a shambles and nothing, repeat NOTHING, will ever change under this board and regime. Wenger out. - Post No. 94513

Amos  12:29pm 11th May 2016

Not ironic at all Begeegs just the default position. Nobody else has managed to do it either. Even 'The Special One' got sacked for being more crap than anyone could have imagined. Still at least we know now that we only have to follow Leicester's masterplan for success - and it only took them 132 years. - Post No. 94515

Exeter Gunner  12:37pm 11th May 2016

So your disappearance at the time of the collapse was just coincidence then, Amos. Yours is a disingenuous comparison and argument. As a supporter of Kroenke and Wenger, you simply don't want to see any dissent where it is most effective. And as for Leicester doing it without big name players, it is them that have done it, not Wenger. So it's hardly a validation of him, quite the opposite. And as for the defence he and his defenders have made for years, that it's only oil money that stops him, that's been blown out of the water. So it doesn't work either way. What this season has proven is that it doesn't matter who else is up there, big money or not, Wenger cannot sustain a challenge for the title. - Post No. 94517

jjetplane  12:38pm 11th May 2016

AMos the calendar champion just had to come back! no one cares what you think on here but you are given the Right! Why don't you get with your soul mates on Untold because like you they spout a good line in paranoiac persecution and now have openly banned all WOBs. It ain't going away this Problem and the media are rightly all over Arsene Fc as nothing more than a cash cow with predictably limited football ambition. Listening to a pundit opening laughing at Wally as they do about the Ostrich with a zip tells you Arsene fC have no respect in the game and scenes like the above will cause true Arsenal to come back again and again until rubbish like Wenger are driven out and the club can breathe again .... Listening to Ray Parlour briefly on the radio last night and he talked of being on the piss before getting MOTM at OT and you just know it was the likes of Ray and Tony pushing Arsenal on to domestic success. If Rioch had stayed we may well have won more and it is obvious Wenger does not know how to deal with players as witnessed by the comic collapse of the great English spine of the team under his designless design. Anyway - boring subject but mucho respect to those great people who dare to speak out in with supreme irony which would be another cultural trait lost on the average AKB .... Burnley - your time has come!!! lol! - Post No. 94518

Begeegs  12:48pm 11th May 2016

Amos - 'Nobody else has managed to do it either.' 'Ironic though that Leicester has justified the argument ' Which is it? Looks more like contradictory statements to me. Also, what is the 'default position'? So if you are referring to 'money', then how are Leicester and Spuds above us and yet good ole Arsene hasn't manage to finish in the top 2 in 12 years. So, it's either money or it isn't, but in either argument, you seem to be holding a busted flush. - Post No. 94519

Amos  12:50pm 11th May 2016

What collapse was that Exeter? We been hovering around the top four all season and only Leicester have won more games. Chelsea collapsed. We've just not won the title. I'm not a supporter of Kroenke or Wenger. I've no special brief about who owns the club as long as they run in it on self sustaining lines. As for Wenger I'm ambivalent. As long as he wants to do the job and feels he can do so I'm content for him to stay and don't see any real need for a change but I can understand why after 20 years some may feel one is due. My bet is he'll go at the end of next season. The 'protests' are just wasted energy. I'd go with those wishing to create a positive atmosphere every time. - Post No. 94520

Ho Hum  12:55pm 11th May 2016

Oh dear Amos, it's embarrassingly clear that Leicester have been getting under your skin for months. One thing though, can you tell me exactly what entertainment the protesters are spoiling by raising their banners after the final whistle? The joy of walking up a few steps and along a concourse perhaps? Although you may have a point, as given some of our comedy defending this season, racing for the exit has probably become a highlight. - Post No. 94523

jeff wright  12:57pm 11th May 2016

Amos's 'we are challenging for the title', use of 'theater ' as a analogy with watching Arsene's teams says it all really about his AKB attitude toward the boring ever ongoing Wenger tenure. Anyway,I always thought it was part of the show to boo at pantomimes! You couldn't make it up. I love these these I have wanted Wenger out since the battle of Agincourt posters who actually just post abuse at his critics . All a bit like claiming you want out of Europe then voting to stay in.You have to laugh. Good old Arsene. - Post No. 94524

jjetplane  13:03pm 11th May 2016

'We've just not won the title' would be a great banner for the Villa game and here's to many more years of 'hovering' around the top four picking up scraps for Stan. My favourite is 'I had forgotten this place existed' as he read every word and took the pain into the small hours and then finally he caved in in order to post his total ambivalence to Arsenal as a football club! lol! I would say Arsene FC is more Tory than North Korea and the price/availability of food will vouche for that .... - Post No. 94526

Amos  13:11pm 11th May 2016

The probable answer to the conundrum you're struggling with Begeegs is that an exception doesn't disprove the rule. But there's always another season and the club is in great shape. What's to protest about though Goonerboy has probably come up with the only truly effective form of protest which is simply not to buy a ticket. Though even that may have its limitations as there's probably always another buyer for it. Still it is a way to achieve harmony in encouraging those who aren't enjoying it not to turn up. A stadium full of supporters who want to be there could be a good move! - Post No. 94528

Exeter Gunner  13:12pm 11th May 2016

Amos - After beating Leicester in February Arsenal were 2 points behind. They're now 12 points behind. That is a collapse of a title challenge. Hope that helps. The fact you and other staunch defenders of Wenger disappeared from this site around the time of the Man U and Swansea defeats suggest you knew what was coming. But of course your 'newsfeed' just happened to pop up this article, none of the other numerous Online Gooner articles of recent months appeared on it, so you had forgotten that a site you regularly contributed to in the past existed. And the protests are a waste of energy but you think them worthy of your energy of commenting on them. And read the recent John Evans article - every time AFC have been in a position to challenge the last few years early in the year, the points per game ratio has dropped away. Yet you see no need for change, and yet still are not a supporter of Wenger. And the suggestion football is simply 'entertainment' suggests either a profound ignorance of the history of football and clubs as a place of tribalism and identity, or straightforward disingenuousness. I'm not sure who you think you're kidding with this stuff. - Post No. 94529

DJ  13:15pm 11th May 2016

Although firmly in the Wenger out camp since the 8-2 defeat when we gave up the pretence of trying to compete for the major trophies I am amazed at the level of support that is still out there or our leader. Where I sit in the Emirates the majority are grumpy old men who all want change but when the ‘one Arsene Wenger ‘ chant went around at Norwich I was surprised at the amount of noise that was generated. Shareholders yes the man is a money making machine but supporters where is the non violent argument for the status quo??? - Post No. 94530

Peter Wain  13:23pm 11th May 2016

it will be interesting how Wenger is viewed at the end of another transfer window when we are bottom of the league in activity. - Post No. 94531

Bard  13:32pm 11th May 2016

Very disturbing piece Kev. Sounds like the club are vetoing dissent as a matter of policy. Ignore Amos it's just a wind up and has no relevance to the article - Post No. 94533

Begeegs  13:32pm 11th May 2016

Amos 'he probable answer to the conundrum you're struggling with Begeegs is that an exception doesn't disprove the rule.' But you claimed earlier that this argument was now put to bed. So essentially, you want it both ways. Leicester/Spurs are a one off this year and won't be repeated, despite more or less blowing a hole in the poverty argument that Wenger has been spouting off about for years. Next year, it'll be back to the 'default' position of 4th and we should be happy with that. Oh the joys of supporting Arsenal - how can we compete with the riches of oil money? Oh.... - Post No. 94534

Amos  13:33pm 11th May 2016

Oh I see Exeter. It's all about tribalism and identity for you is it? In order for you to feel successful you have identify with a club that wins things - even though you play absolutely no part whatsover in that success. You have to live your life vicariously as part of a winning 'tribe' that you anoint yourself a member of. Makes you wonder what kept those Leicester supporters going without protest for 132 years doesn't it. Maybe not the same sense of entitlement. - Post No. 94535

Jenkinson  13:38pm 11th May 2016

The 'Change' brigade are in a pretty small minority. The protest at the Norwich game was pathetic. All they are doing is creating hostility; I for one do not want my enjoyment of the game interrupted by malcontents. After all it is only a game. Whilst the season has been disappointing that is only because expecations were so high. We've had a pretty good season and may even finish higher than last year. Waving banners is very annoying - no wonder those who are happy with the status quo want to take them down. - Post No. 94536

Exeter Gunner  13:41pm 11th May 2016

Amos - Your disingenuous personalisation of my point about the fact that football clubs have played a historical role in community identity and belonging simply demonstrates the that you cannot argue against the points I have made. - Post No. 94538

Amos  13:43pm 11th May 2016

Where did I claim the argument had been put to bed Begeegs? I simply pointed out that the Leicester example could support either view. I've no idea whether Leicester or Spurs will finish 1st or 2nd next year. After all nobody would have expected Chelsea to finish 9th this season. There are few things certain in football - though on reflection maybe Arsenal qualifying for the CL is about as close as it gets. - Post No. 94539

jjetplane  13:46pm 11th May 2016

Untold have now posted a 'lengthy analysis' of the referee in the Chelsea/Tottenham game although apparently they are a site dedicated to 'supporting (a) Arsenal' but have run out of things to talk about (oh the ironies) of will 'Welbeck warm a bench or Jack at the Euros?' type yawnfest .... One bright spark wonders why there is no anti posts.... If you read your own web page pal you would see they no longer except any posts that do not correlate with some Belgium bloke's idea of life in Islington ..... back to Leicester anyway .... What a team/manager/club/fans - well done again and not a single mention of them on Untold unless it is sour grapes like the one who has turned up here today. Maybe he is one of the stewards or more like their 'team leader' .... - Post No. 94540

Arseneknewbest  13:48pm 11th May 2016

Lots of accurate superlatives on here - it's becoming easier and easier to dislike this organisation profoundly. Fans of other Stan In.c franchises feel exactly the same way. The people that are ruining our once great club got rich on being able to base themselves in a country which claims to be democratic and welcoming of free trade and views, yet the second that valid and structured dissent begins, they quash it with their boot boys. Wenger and Stan-K should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this toxic and divisive atmosphere to seep into our community. Stan, Ivan and Arsene - you are enemies within - go now before someone like that poor young kid gets seriously injured. - Post No. 94541

goonersol  13:55pm 11th May 2016

Amos....only certainty at the moment is that Arsene Plc will not win the PL, but may finish 2/3 or 4th....shambles of a place , parading as a football club for the fans/community, do me a favour, more like the regime's bank balance. Churchill won a war and was not re-elected, let alone Wenger who has gone 10yrs with 2 recent FA wins for all his efforts........Wenger and Regime OUT. - Post No. 94542

JER  13:59pm 11th May 2016

Just had my silver and red membership renewals through. I was thinking of cancelling them anyway but will definitely do it now. My heart isn't in Arsenal any longer, this after 50+ years. It was never the same after Highbury. - Post No. 94543

Tony Evans  14:00pm 11th May 2016

Looks like my original comment was removed by Website Admin. I suppose my analogy was a bit over the top but this split in the Arsenal fan base is only going to get worse and to see Arsenal fans fighting amongst themselves and Arsenal stewards confiscating peaceful protest banners is awful. - Post No. 94544

North Korean AKB  14:41pm 11th May 2016

Does Amos do parties? Never read such embarrassing contradictory guff in my life. It's hilariously embarrassing from Amos the AKB. There's so much verbal rubbish to wade through but my personal favourite has to be "I'm happy for Arsene to stay as long as he feels he WANTS to do the job". Yes that's right. Forget about what many fans want, forget about results and trophies, forget about what ambition dictates....if Master A WANTS to do the job until he's 95 then so be it! Amos subsequent comment which says "I'm ambivalent" tells you everything you need to know about the idiotic, passionless and gutless happy-flappy sheep that fill the Emirates. Just Arsene and Kroenke's type of fan! "Ambivalent". Pathetic. Beyond that though, watching Amos trying to give Wenger credit for Leicester title win is glorious! LOL. Course most us remember Amos et al using "oil money" and finances as perpetual excuses for our Specialist in Failure. Suddenly, they've u-turned quicker than a Tory government and now Leicester show you DO NOT need loadsa cash! Oh great! So errrr...having being given 12 years and lots of money why has Wenger not even managed a top 2 finish in over a decade? Hahahaha. I especially love Amos using Mourinho as an excuse of someone who failed....errrr except he won the league just 2 years ago! So what does that make your Dear Leader? Oh wait...I know why....Jose only won it cos he had loadsa money!!!! Errrrr nope wait...you DONT need loadsa dosh to win it! Arsene Knows! Errrr wait....this is hard....panic stations at AKB HQ! CENSOR THOSE WOBs! Remember though, Amos "had forgotten this place existed". It only "popped up on his news feed" by miracle after another top 4 virtual trophy was secured. Fancy that hahahahahahahaha - Post No. 94548

West Cork Frank  15:01pm 11th May 2016

Incredible! What right do Arsenal stewards have to take non-offensive banners off true Arsenal fans ? Especially at away games. Man City must have been aware of the situation to let them do this and be in the ground in the first place. Also, the Manchester police helping them and assaulting Arsenal fans !! Those South Yorkshire police bung wipes must be so proud of them. I am so feckin angry. Anybody with ARSENAL in their heart could not want that useless, spineless,clueless buffoon to continue as manager. I finally gave up my season ticket at the end of last season, years and feckin years after I knew we were going nowhere with that useless money-grabber. When I dared put forth an anti- wenger opinion people tried to threaten/ silence me, but to no avail. Funny as well how arsene fc supporters always had a go at me in groups of two or three. I am at an age where I believe violence is only understandable if your family or yourself are in imminent danger and there is no other way. BUT, where are these wenger loving, child assaulting bully- boys when Tottenham's firm are camped outside the club shop every season ? Also, why in their infantile minds are criticisms of our money grabbing manager[ sic] and 'owner' seen as criticism of the club? What a bloody heart- breaking joke they all have let our club become. All I want is for us to do our best to try and achieve success, from the board to the manager to the players. It is not a sense of entitlement. Posters who can see the woods from the sh**t shouldn't bother themselves with pr**ks like amos. I KNOW how painful our now money- grabbing, lying club hierarchy has so far removed ARSENAL from what we once were. RED ARMY ! - Post No. 94549

Henry Mancini  15:04pm 11th May 2016

Worrying times ahead, sadly. The split will only get bigger and uglier, although I fancy, next season will be such a car crash, that the Wenger backers will have nowhere to go. What an appalling situation, we all love The Arsenal and yet a situation is developing here that may be hard to reconcile, once the dust settles and Arsene is gone. If as I expect, Arsenal see an exodus this summer and team performance drop even more, the AKB bunch will find even more erratic excuses to try to defend themselves. The chance of anyone admitting they got it wrong, is slim to say the least. And the anger towards the other side will intensify. Jesus, what a mess, why the hell didn't he walk off into the sunshine with 2 freshly won FA Cups under his arm? - Post No. 94550

CB  15:09pm 11th May 2016

Well said North Korean. The hypocrisy of this Amos chappie is only equalled by his lord and master Wenger. - Post No. 94551

Avenell Road  15:10pm 11th May 2016

Henry Mancini - totally agree. And what will happen when a new manager comes along? Will the AKB want him to fail to prove the WOB wrong? Our next great manager will not only need to be able to get the team playing again but heal the rift in the support base. Tough times ahead! - Post No. 94552

David  15:14pm 11th May 2016

"... individuals are paying money to gain admission, they are not allowed freedom of expression" I haven't read the t&c's of Arsenal, but in general there is no freedom of expression in a sporting arena. They more or less have the right to refuse you entry for anything that is not acceptable. More often than not it is not enforced, but there was an occasion when Dutch fans had to all remove their trousers before being admitted to a World Cup match. As my boss often reminds me, this is a plc not a democracy! - Post No. 94553

CT Gooner  15:15pm 11th May 2016

I think the bigger issue being missed in this debate is the AKB "vigilantes" assaulting people for expressing an opinion in a non-aggressive fashion. I agree with Kevin that the club should be forced to ban those criminals. Sorry, this crap makes us no classier than Millwall!! - Post No. 94554

David  15:26pm 11th May 2016

"next season will be such a car crash" The thing is that since the early/mid 1980s there hasn't been a car crash season. Even when there was the small threat of relegation in 1995, the team were close to conquering Europe for the second season in a row. If next season there is a car crash along the lines of Chelsea this season, Wenger will be resigning come Christmas, but I suspect that as per usual, Arsenal will scrape into the last 16 of the Champions League and be on the fringes of the title race. I don't think Wenger will be there the following season, but if things look promising come the new year, I wouldn't bet against another three year contract being signed. - Post No. 94558

Arseneknewbest  15:30pm 11th May 2016

The rot set in when money-grubbing Danny Fiszman and Nina Bracewell-whatsername sold their shares and their souls to the betoupe'ed devil from Missoura. Whatever happened to due diligence, especially when it concerned something as precious as this once magnificent club? Danny is already brown bread but from her tax haven base in Monaco, Lady N will go to her grave knowing that her greed contributed to Arsenal turning into an authoritarian sh*t-stinking amoeba. Shame on both of them. The dignity has gone - I feel no connection with the club at this stage. Thank fook that there are still communities like this that remember when Arsenal stood for something. I read an exchange on here last week between SKG, Ron and Redshirtswhitesleeves that really lifted my spirits and reminded me about what we love about this club. But we can't keep looking backwards. We are seriously on the cusp of losing anything that is positive about this club. I hate wenger and stan-k. - Post No. 94559

Edmund  15:36pm 11th May 2016

All this fighting among fans is counterproductive. Let Wenger do his job as he sees fit. Fellow WOBs can do our part by not buying shirts for next season and avoiding the sponsors. In the end Kroenke will leave because of he is only in it for the money and when sponsors leave he will pack his bags too. Puma will definitely have something to say if Leicester shirts outsell Arsenal. Wenger will go too. That said, I still believe Wenger has some pride and will not renew if he does not show he can win the league. But only if he takes full responsibility and is not shackled by board demands to buy players he is not interested in or if he has to play against his football values. We cant do much about 2016-2017 so let him have his last bow. We will probably judge him harshly next May. In the unlikely event we do end up champions then I owe him an apology. If he does renew after another throphyless season, I'm wrong about him having any dignity and he nothing but a fraud. - Post No. 94560

RedPig  15:45pm 11th May 2016

Excellent piece Kevin and some great comments. At least articles like this show we've not all gone insane. Yet. So sad that its come to this but it was inevitable really because we'll wait forever for Wenger to do the decent thing and leave. How about a banner that says: COME AND RIP THIS DOWN IF YOU AGREE WENGER'S LOST IT ! - Post No. 94562

Henry Mancini  15:48pm 11th May 2016

David, I think we are in for a real reality check next season and the chances of our usual Cl last 16 & top 4 finish, may be gone, when you consider the teams lining up to challenge the established order over the last decade. It appears to me from his body language, the we will be seeing the last of Alexis on Sunday and probably Mesut as well. They are too good to be taken in by the Wenger boll'cks. They asked for top quality additions last summer and got a keeper! They will not fall for it again. As for what will be left after most of the dead wood has jumped ship and the rest of the dressing room decide to stop listening to a manager who is gone in a few months, performances will be at best average. So the chances of a new contract should be null and void come Christmas. - Post No. 94563

David  15:51pm 11th May 2016

"awful quagmire of endless tedium and inertia" - Save the early Graham and early Wenger years, this is my general experience of Arsenal. In the Neill/Howe days always finishing around 6th which is now upgraded to 4th or above since the move to the new stadium. Had David Dein not turned up I suspect 1987-2006 would have been little different. Such a shame they let David Dein walk out the door. - Post No. 94564

jjetplane  15:52pm 11th May 2016

This is a football site and having just got around to watching Leicester's highlights against Everton I had clean forgotten what it was like to shed tears of joy at what has to be the greatest title victory in PL history! Leicester were so far off the radar and yet their spine right through the club is just fantastic1! Not a Foxes fan by any stretch though will now be supporting them in the CL next season and they will make that insipid competition a bit more watchable along with the runners up (ye old Spuds! lol!). saying all this as contrast to the bitter, twisted, paranoid, anti-football (yes!) AKB tourist rabble that infest the once great Arsenal. Kante going to Arsenal is as likely as Wenger ever winning another trophy .... never going to happen and that is why the AKBs are as they are. Like their messiah they don't really like or understand football as can be witnessed by the fact that Untold have produced referee spreadsheets on games where Arsene FC have not played! .... Talk about Anorak ****ing City (great song by the band ****ed Up) that lot take the extreme biscuit. Guess that was it from Amos til perhaps next xmas when Online gets flagged up and Arsene FC have just won two in a row ... lol! Oh ****ing groundhogs .... The tears on those Foxes fans faces ..... I understand and I cry with you - beautiful Leicester City - real champions at last and Godfather Ranieri as already said to the players 'if you want out go!' he has a plan and if they are intelligent guys they will stay .... Now please can we have ONE example of an AKB who is a happy go lucky football fan looking forward to next season's Competitions ... No takers? lol! - Post No. 94565

Ron  15:53pm 11th May 2016

Yrs analogies are as poor as they could ever be Amos. Football is played to stadia of 35 to 75 thou plus as well as being backed by wall to wall TV. Theatre isnt. Its congemialand intimate. Moreover, as a member of 30 plus yrs of a well known Theatre, i can assure you that some of the criticisms of producers, Directors and yes, the actors too are strongly conveyed to various production companies and views are well received and an often acted upon swiftly. Audiences dont need banners to make a point. There are willing listeners to the criticisms. Football Clubs, especially AFC ( the mythical 'classy' Club!) arent like that and havent been for many years. I can also speak for many whove been involved in Supporters Clubs at Arsenal for a long time (not since 2008 admittedly). If you want a view on what Arsenal are like go speak to any Club secretary or ticket officer and they ll tell what Arsenal are like, if you can open yr mind for long enough. As for yr Leics analogy. Do you seriously expect to get away with a straight comparison of the manner in which they and Arsenal can and have to operate? Yr comments are an intended joke surely? If not, you need some help in understanding football reality. Kevin - the stewards behavour you mention has gone on for years. You may have been at Stoke in 2010. It was for me the day of the most disgraceful surrender of a match by any Arsenal team in my lifetime. We conceded 3 goals and scored one. I wont say we 'lost' as that would be an insult to the concept of sport itself. The Club, team and Manager never bothered. The Stoke team could nt help but score at least 3. My point here is that at least 12 fans that i saw that day rushed to the front of the away section to complain to Wenger. They offended nobody, but were vociferous. Our Stewards dragged at least 5 out of the stadium, tearing jeans and coats in the process. They were eventually assisted by Stoke stewards as things got rough. The Stoke stewards couldnt believe what they were seeing. Other fans shouting Wenger out in the bars below were attacked by pro Wenger fans too. The stuff you describe has been going on for years and been suppressed. My old Supporters Club and 1 other made strong representations to AFC after that. They were ignored after initial lip service was given to them. - Post No. 94566

johnnyhawleyloovinggooner  15:59pm 11th May 2016

Take a leaf out of G.G.book.did he not say in the club matchday program at the end of a disappointing season something along the lines of players not being up to the mark and replacements will be made in the summer? That should stop an ugly last day. - Post No. 94567

Bard  16:05pm 11th May 2016

Whichever side of the divide you stand its hard to see how this split can be resolved other than by Wenger leaving. You can argue about whether he is or has been any good till the cows come home but in the end he has become identified with all that is wrong with the club. Acts such as Kevin has described will only strengthen the feeling against him as Mark has said ultimately censorship never works, not in a free society anyway. A very sad state of affairs. - Post No. 94568

Henry Mancini  16:24pm 11th May 2016

Johnhawleyloovinggonner, I take great exception to your name. I know he sported the red and white for a short time, but I cannot forgive a freezing visit to Roker Park in 1981 with the said man unleashing a near 50 yard effort, flying into the top corner, past Pat Jennings to compound our misery by 100%, as the snow fell and the icy North sea winds battered our small following. Shame on you! - Post No. 94569

Spanner  16:28pm 11th May 2016

A lot more need to stand up and be counted , Enough is Enough - Post No. 94570

Roy  17:30pm 11th May 2016

The club lying to the press is just another low in a long series of recent lows both on and off the pitch. This is ridiculous. The blatant truth is that after 20 years, Wenger is no longer up to the job. And if he could have done better in recent seasons but sold his soul to Kroenkes profit first policy, then that's his fault too for mugging the fans off though many would be sorely tempted to compromise our principles for £8m a year. Either way the end is nigh as it has all finally been rumbled. By big worry is that by the time it all reaches a very drawn out and bitter conclusion ( and that's how it will be due to the number that still unbelievably support this regime ) next season has the potential to be an utter car crash. Arsenal always used to be associated with class whatever the result, now even that has gone out the window. A number of us who have given up our season ticket in recent times saw this coming. Hang your heads in shame. - Post No. 94572

Mark from Aylesbury  17:51pm 11th May 2016

Ultimately the reason we are in the state we are is that for every one of the last twelve seasons a waive of bad form has impacted us and derailed the title challenges. Some will say ultimately Wenger has not learnt his lessons. This group which has grown considerably want him out now or within 12 months. Those who are left either seek conspiracy theory or genuinely don't care about winning titles in a structured planned all out assualt its a kind of if it happens it happens. This season appears to be the strongest down turn yet with a team let's remember who were top at Christmas. Wenger in turn has become embroiled in poor PR. Gazidis has not made any public utterance and Stewardship from the board is perceived as being weak. On the basis that a collapse will happen again . I predict that between new year to Feb a new collapse will happen. The anger will ramp again by a further obvious level. Puma may kick off. It's not looking good for next year in my book and I wonder if we will be hamstrung by Sanchez and Ozil making a bid to leave. So you AKBs out there , be careful what you wish for - Post No. 94574

Mark  17:56pm 11th May 2016

no suprise then another yet another MAJOR INJURY BLOW for Arsenal. More serious injuries than any other squad. Danny will be ready by Feb of next season..beam me up that means another year of relying on Theo the Beard.. I simply do not accept that the extreme high rate of Long term injuries at Arsenal is a co-incidence. - Post No. 94575

jjetplane  18:16pm 11th May 2016

Incredible with Danny back only 3 months and a rub of thighs ends up with major cartilage problem and a possible career ender as far as his relationship with Arsene FC goes. He joins an ever growing list of injury ridden players but with Olly scoring one goal in another draw and apparently making the most ingenious assist since Neymar in his next match .... Olly fell on his arse (normal Arsene situ) and kicked leg out .... ****ing wow! he would only be a bench warmer to Vardy, Kane and Co though the press are still being kind to the skeleton that is Arsene Fc. Only today they are chuckling away on how uncle Santi did a turn for the U 21s on the radio. It really has become a laugh a day club and it seems a shame Welbeck has been caught up in it. They may sign another two bob striker in the Olly mode (Bony from City lol!) and can anyone see Ozil wasting another season of assists on a couple of donkeys. been watching county footer for aeons and seeing Vardy now in global superstar mode is just fantastic! Let's hope he cracks on and without doubt he is better than Henry ever was! No sulking and all for the team - that's how you win trophies! Good luck with your future Mr Welbeck. - Post No. 94576

Seven Kings Gooner  18:23pm 11th May 2016

The irony for me is fans who want to change our lightweight tippy tappy football for a more professional robust approach, with players who are mentally and physically stronger, coupled with a more pragmatic manager are being attacked by supporters who wish to keep the perpetrator of the lightweight football in his position. If the team were to attack it's opponents with the same vigour we would have won the league by Christmas! Real problem is some of these fans have only known Arsene's view on football and cannot cope with their world as they know it being challenged. - Post No. 94577

mbg  18:43pm 11th May 2016

It's good that the press have picked up on this as I've said great publicity you couldn't buy it, not so good for the club and TOF though as it's showing them up for what they've become, a two bob dictatorship run by the biggest dictator and two bob manager of them all. we want wenger out we want wenger out. - Post No. 94578

jeff wright  18:53pm 11th May 2016

Mark, Danny Boy was always an accident waiting to happen,his poor goal ratio and injury problems were why United off-loaded him on to us. I had to laugh at the Q/A session : Ask Jack Wilshere ... on Twitter it's a must read .Poor Jack is too dense to have realized that he would get the piss taken out of him regarding his appalling injury record I will wager though that good old Arsene won't be doing any Q/A's .Shame really because folk would have more fun with that than Chimps at a tea party. You couldn't make it up. - Post No. 94579

Seven Kings Gooner  18:54pm 11th May 2016

Mark & Jjetplane, watch DW's tackle, it was with the wrong leg. Seriously guys if you dangle your leg like that without proper timing you get hurt, it is very very basic. Others surely must see that Danny got it wrong. - Post No. 94580

mbg  18:55pm 11th May 2016

Have you read the update at the bottom of the column AKB's ? make you feel good ? happy with yourselves ? real hard men aren't you ? where have you heard WOB's doing that and behaving like that ? like I've already said you couldn't buy that publicity. wenger out. - Post No. 94581

John F  19:02pm 11th May 2016

Terrible situation but the aggressive Wengerattes are actually doing the club more harm then good by creating an intimidating atmosphere as they will drive people away and leave even more empty seats to look at.I think the Arsenal board will make a couple of major signings this term to try and calm the situation and divert attention away from Wengers new three year contract .If the rumours are right that we are signing xhaka then expect the contract announcement or Sanchez leaving to follow soon after.HM, your favourite John Hawley owns an antique business in the town I live in . - Post No. 94582

GoonerGoal!  19:10pm 11th May 2016

Once those who disagree with your point of view react with violence to your peaceful protest, you must know you have won the argument. Hide your banners about your person. Then once inside the ground, GET YOUR BANNERS OUT! Defy those who would try to silence you. Defy the violent AKB's! WENGER OUT! VIVE LA REVOLUTION! - Post No. 94583

David the Price is Ian Wright Wright Right....!  19:27pm 11th May 2016

Pain is temporary, Arsene is for life. That was one of the banners supporting Wonga as published by the media. This exemplifies all we need to know. Sad people indeed! ArsenalFanTv is also a hotbed of revolt, & there are many individuals who air their point of view on their very strongly. Perhaps these Wongamen should make their dissatisfaction known to these guys. It won't go down too well, trust! As strongly as they feel towards their God Wonga, mine is an antithesis. Wenger well and truly OUT! - Post No. 94584

mbg  19:49pm 11th May 2016

Exeter, but to some it is mate, they just love the ambience of it, the quietness, the relaxation, the way wengers little technicians grace the stage, and then at the end the standing ovation with their messiah taking the bow, they just love that and the way he leaves with a wave to the audience, that's if he and us haven't been humiliated and embarrassed yet again then it's exit right and he's gone behind the curtain in a huff blaming everyone apart from himself for him and his little dwarfs for forgetting they're lines. wenger out. - Post No. 94586

Hiccup  19:51pm 11th May 2016

Perspective please! We all know that those taking banners in to the ground were not fans, but employees of BT Sport. - Post No. 94587

booboo  19:57pm 11th May 2016

Stand up for your right to be heard! #FOW - Post No. 94588

AMG  20:03pm 11th May 2016

Disgusting behaviour from the AKB thugs, really bears testament to the level of intelligence in that camp. Wenger is just lucky it's taken this long for the tide to turn against him so publicly. - Post No. 94590

Snowbiggee  20:32pm 11th May 2016

What you are saying Kevin is that Gazidis needs to show some leadership. Good luck finding any of that anywhere within the club. - Post No. 94591

mbg  20:42pm 11th May 2016

ArseneKnewBest, great post, when they all turned up here they were all welcomed by everybody and treated with respect and supported especially by the fans (no one more so than wenger himself) even Kroenke, and all/only disrespect he received was from old Hillwood and his cronies on the BOARD, all of them wengers good buddies too, yet here they all are now disrespecting, insulting and treating the fans that welcomed them (and supported them)in the first place like second class citizens just because we dare to have a different opinion and don't like the way the club is been run, pathetic, disgraceful the whole lot of them,(especially wenger, he has a short memory) there should be a law against it. The dictator out. - Post No. 94592

Salai  21:15pm 11th May 2016

Hah, all sounds a bit Ukippy, yeah we're antagonists, but everyone was against us honest guv. - Post No. 94594

John F  21:19pm 11th May 2016

Good story coming out about the Man City fans who are posting and making donations to Arsenal foundation trust because one of their fans punched a twelve year old Arsenal fan after the game.City have contacted his dad and offered a VIP day out the next time we play each other.Perhaps the AKBs and Arsenal can do the same for the 14 yr old attacked by those cowards mentioned in Kev's report. - Post No. 94595

Augustus Flair  21:35pm 11th May 2016

A support hopelessly divided, with even children being punched; a ground that deep down none us like or feel at home in; a peevish old manager with no clue about how to sustain a credible campaign for major honours; a remote, indifferent owner milking the once-mighty Arsenal for cash; bitter local rivals who are now miles better than us and coached by a young, ambitious manager proving himself; bitter local rival fans who won't even have to ambush us at the Lane next season as they'll just watch us knocking lumps out of each other; a spineless administration that refuses to acknowledge anything's wrong. So what's not to like about Arsenal 2016? - Post No. 94596

mbg  21:37pm 11th May 2016

West Cork Frank, good post, it would make you angry alright, you just have to see social media today, and on here, this has just made fans worse got they're blood boiling even more, turning against wenger and making them even more determined and wanting TOF out even more. This has back fired on the club and TOF spectacularly it's made things even worse, but that comes as no surprise does it ? we're all used to the cockups and backfires from wenger on the pitch. - Post No. 94597

Arseneknewbest  22:14pm 11th May 2016

In the title of this piece, it might be more apt to call him simply Captain Arsenic given the poison that pervades the club these days. Him and his merkin-headed mate cyanide Stan. I give you the enemies within...with apologies to the ghost of Thomas A'Becket, who will rid us of this this turbulent twosome of t*ssers? - Post No. 94598

Leek fc  23:33pm 11th May 2016

The minority can have there say. But it's not very loud eh. Just a few huffs and puffs. Wenger must stay. - Post No. 94600

anthony walters  6:06am 12th May 2016

seven kings i have seen walcott and van persie both injured badly dangling their foot in,wilshire badly injured tackling off balance and ozil v everton turned his back and got injured with their player landing on him which had he been looking he would have moved out of the way.i watched the welbeck tackle again just to see if he tackled with the wrong foot i .sorry mate he was in full stride and put the ball out with his nearest foot his right his left foot was way back he was simply unlucky.welbeck works superbly for the team and has been excellent since his return he may not be prolific but is a great team player it's a bad day for the player ,england and arsenal.i played many years of football at lower levels spending long periods out being injury prone which i did become after the age of 26 a couple of injuries because i rushed back or played to help the team when i should have rested. when you love playing and i do believe danny is a real genuine guy who gives everything it is soul destroying suffering long term injuries and people who aren't actively sporting don't appreciate how depressing it can be.it is quite sad the infighting amongst arsenal fans at the moment .though i believe wenger should go just as bad as arsenal fans being attacked for carrying anti wenger bannners when some carrying one are recorded singing a disgusting song about wenger dying is it any wonder incidents are taking place.where is the condemnation of them on here and from you kevin whicher? - Post No. 94602

Arseneknewbest  7:38am 12th May 2016

Eric - great to have you, er, back. Your unerring accuracy about our mutual friends is spot on and is warmly welcomed. To answer your questions, I want weng to stay for precisely the time it takes to open the press office and switch on the resignation letter software on his lap-top at the wok this morning. For the title, I tip any team not managed by weng (whose ambitions are more to do with moolah). Eric - don't be a stranger my man - we need your wisdom on here more often. - Post No. 94604

It's up for grabs now  8:02am 12th May 2016

Why is anyone surprised that a club run by a dictator behaves like one? - Post No. 94606

Seven Kings Gooner  10:18am 12th May 2016

Anthony Walters: Sorry whilst we agree on most things, DW should have used his other leg and slid the ball out off play, two more strides and a sold left leg sliding tackle and he would have been fine. Agree about Danny's work rate and I like the guy but the tackle was clumsy and speaks more about his coaching than his effort and heart which is solid. - Post No. 94610

Nick  10:21am 12th May 2016

Amos you obviously have no idea what being a true football supporter is all about, of course its roots are in tribalism, of course we all live vicariously through our team how else can a supporters loyalty and devotion to his team be described ? If you fail to understand that then I submit that you are NOT a true fan, if it doesn't hurt everytime we lose or fail to win due to a last gasp leveller or if you aren't filled with joyous elation when we win or when we win a trophy or beat a hated rival, then WHY are you a supporter in the first place ? Those of us who wish to see Wenger go want his exit because the hurts have come too often and on a far too regular basis, we do not EXPECT that we win titles and cups every season we merely want our team whose resources by the way dwarf all but two or three clubs to CHALLENGE to ASPIRE to win things, our league campaigns over the last twelve years have been a series of repetitive mistakes and collapses when the crunch time comes,Wenger has never said you can win the league without money he HAS said it is impossible to compete with the moneyed clubs so there is mo comparison between his views and the Foxes success, they have just proven him wrong ! As for entertainment, well if anyone is entertained by the tepid, slow, tip, tap, sideways and backward passing game we ATTEMPT to play them I suggest they would be better served watching a game of chess or lawn bowls entertainment in football is for the neutral, the hard bitten fan would rather his team WIN first and entertain second, but to not win and then not entertain either is something no one wants ! This Sundays final game is yet another in a long line of dead rubber final games, with only the very slim hope of reviving St Totts am ephemeral success in any case, we then have a summer of disappointment to look forward to as we are linked with countless players only to buy a kid from the Mongolian Sunday Yak hearders league ! - Post No. 94612

Amos  10:42am 12th May 2016

Nick you're not a true football supporter mate. You're deceiving yourself. The supporters of most football teams in the country do not expect ever to challenge meaningfuly for major trophies let alone win one. Except for those followers of a handful of teams - and a good proportion of those only became followers when trophies could be expected. I've been to many Arsenal games over many years - long before Wenger and probably long after. I'm disappointed when we fail and celebrate when we triumph. True football supporters do not attach conditions to their support - they just enjoy the craic - win, lose or draw. - Post No. 94614

Arseneknewbest  11:00am 12th May 2016

Amos - wrong, wrong, wrong. No real fan enjoys watching their team lose. There is no craic to be had in seeing your team lose at say, Stoke or West Brom, especially in the often spineless and guileless way that weng teams approach such games. My entire weekend and subsequent week would depend on our result and would be wholly responsible at times for setting my mood. I'm neither proud nor happy about that a lot of the time but I cannot deny that that is what tends to happen. But given what Nick accurately describes and the sheer regularity/monotony with which this modern Arsene FC serve up weak and underwhelming displays, I'm actively trying to condition myself to make sure it matters less. Indeed, my kid's team result is now becoming much more important than what goes on in Holloway. Be true to yourself Amos - like Nick always is - and then we can have a debate. - Post No. 94616

goonersol  11:20am 12th May 2016

Amos........you are incorrect, most teams have not had their ambitions raised for a price, we have been fed propaganda for ages, "Trust me, when we move to a bigger stadium, we will compete with the best " etc etc.........All Arsenal have been for a along time is make up the numbers with no real prospect of ever winning, Wenger just cannot cross the winning line, he cannot motivate, he cannot turn a defeat into victory, he has used "Judge me in May" for too long.......Other clubs supporters accept where they are because they are not made promises, and they also pay a reasonable price for whatever pleasure they get, all we get is "Wait, Wait , Wait there will be jam tomorrow"...Wenger just cannot cut it anymore, and the sad fact is he cannot accept it, blaming everyone except himself for all of Arsenal's failings.......Wenger & Regime out. - Post No. 94617

jeff wright  11:38am 12th May 2016

Amos, stop deluding yourself you are obviously a right-on Arsene supporter and gave up your club loyalty when you became one. Methinks you protest too much about not being an AKB. You were taking a different stance back in November on here as I recall claiming that Wenger was challenging for the league title. You did not say then that you were not bothered if we won it or not and HAD we done so we all know that you would be on here gloating about it .You disappeared sharpish along with others of your ilk though once it became obvious that good old Arsene was cocking things up big time again in every competition.You reappear now only because the top 4 place trophy looks safe again . If it were not so then you would not be posting your nonsense. You are fooling no one with it sunbeam we have seen it all ( yawn) along with the pathetic excuses and accusations of others not being true supporters if they don't blindly follow good old Arsene like little sheep going ba ba ba for donkey's years . You couldn't make it up. - Post No. 94619

Amos  11:39am 12th May 2016

Who said anything about enjoying watching your team lose? If you're a football supporter though you'll know that's what you must accept. Still true that for most football supporters it's something they'll experience more frequently than Arsenal supporters over recent years. That doesn't make the defeats any less disappointing but it should put the notion of supporter expectations into perspective. Quite right that most supporters have not had their ambitions raised as much as Arsenal supporters though. How did they get raised I wonder? Being a supporter is about meeting with triumph and disaster and treating those two imposters just the same. It's a ride. Just enjoy the ride. - Post No. 94620

Amos  11:51am 12th May 2016

You do have a need to compartmentalise opinion jeff. Too difficult for you to deal with otherwise I imagine. The accusations about not being a true supporter didn't originate from me though that black will be just as white to you I'm sure. Nor has the topic of a top four finish been something I've introduced. On the contrary it seems that many here seem terribly upset, yourself included, that we have done so. True supporters every one I have no doubt! What would the club do without you all I wonder? - Post No. 94621

Exeter Gunner  11:56am 12th May 2016

So the Amos logic is: Expectations are not being met under Wenger, but because it was Wenger who raised those expectations in the first place, he should go on as long as he wants. He doesn't get it, he doesn't feel it. He's at the theatre, or more accurately the fairground - 'it's just a ride'. The irony is, he thinks anyone without his sense of contented detachment isn't a true supporter. - Post No. 94622

goonersol  12:02pm 12th May 2016

Amos...we accept winning and losing in equal measure, its the mediocrity and apathy that makes us want Wenger out, he accepts 2nd best, happy with 2/3/4th place( as he has said) , while all along telling us we will challenge for major honours, he pulled a fast one when he had time on his side, now that the chips are down, he blames everyone but himself, he has become a joke and split the fans in the process. - Post No. 94623

Amos  12:02pm 12th May 2016

I'm not detached at all Exeter. Just a little more joined up that's all. You should try it sometime. Football can be great fun you know! But if misery is your bag then it can provide plenty of disappointment too. In which case perhaps I shouldn't spoil it for you. - Post No. 94624

Exeter Gunner  12:11pm 12th May 2016

It's not about being positive or negative, Amos, it's about honest appraisal. You are to that what latter day Wenger is to a sustained title challenge. You are disingenuous, dishonest, supercilious and complacent in your arguments (and yes, in that sense they do have a 'joined up' coherence) and when called out on it and pulled apart as you were yesterday, disappear and then appear again today in the hope it's all forgotten and you can make a fresh start. But we can all scroll upwards... - Post No. 94625

jeff wright  12:27pm 12th May 2016

Amos,you started off after reappearing on here' by accident' like Alice falling down a rabbit hole into Wonderland, claiming that Leicester's triumph in winning the title could be used to support any argument. Complete nonsense that by the way and your posts have been filled with denials or asking who said this or that . The main plank of your argument is that we should alL just get on with supporting the club, this means in reality Arsene and Stan but you try to dress it up in patriotic clothing and claim that by not giving this blind bland support to 'the team 'means that you can not be a true supporter.The truth is that many supporters have become bored with Wenger and his antics and want a change .Is that really so difficult to understand >? Winning trophies is not the reason why they want this change they are just bored with Wenger and his ways and stale predictable football. Just because you are prepared to put up with it doesn't mean that everyone else must do so. - Post No. 94627

Alsace  13:43pm 12th May 2016

When people are defending a really serious injustice, they resort to violence. When they have no significant argument to raise, they turn to violence. My Dad is 82 years old and an AKB) and expressed the view that he would be happy to restrain someone having the temerity to raise an anti Wenger banner. Mr Wenger's creatures are reactionaries, pure and simple. It is to be hoped, when this dark period is finally over, that Mr Wenger will be seen for the destructive and negative force that he has ultimately been for Arsenal Football Club. I wish we had never seen his face at AFC. - Post No. 94638

jjetplane  14:07pm 12th May 2016

Leek FC eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh ....... - Post No. 94643

Amos  18:50pm 12th May 2016

Great that you've mastered the art of scrolling upwards Exeter. One step at a time eh! Now all you have to do is to formulate an argument that's worth listening to outside the audience of this misery bank. There's little accidental anout newsfeeds Jeff. They are all rather mechanical. Whether a headline grabs anyone's attention sufficiently to click oconsidering anything except your own blind prejudices I guess. That prevents you seeing that both sides of the argument for and against Arsenal's self sustaining policy are indeed supported by aspects of the Leicester 'triumph' you. But then, as I said, I'm spoiling your fun here for my own idle entertainment I should leave you to enjoy yourselves. - Post No. 94658

Exeter Gunner  20:10pm 12th May 2016

I and others have formulated arguments and responses on here that you've been listening to but haven't been able to rebut, Amos (or perhaps you see yourself as part of the 'misery bank'). You haven't even tried. All you do is try and shift the goalposts when you've lost a point, as you've just done again - no one has been arguing against a self-sustaining policy. You're only digging yourself deeper and deeper into your own misery pit on here and your declaration, for the second time, that you'll depart suggests you at least dimly perceive this. - Post No. 94662

Nick  23:09pm 12th May 2016

Amos I'm.not a supporter because I put conditions on.that support? Really where did I say that? I answered your ridiculous points about fans being vicarious creatures ( of course we are) and went on to say that a true fan.hurts when we lose I did not say that winning was a condition of continued support, my own support.of the Arsenal began in 1958, so I know a bit about.losing, but that never stopped any.of the supporters of.my age wishing, wanting and hoping for Arsenal glory, THAT is what a true supporter is about, it doesn't mean however that we should accept constant failure when we are promised so.much.and charged the most.of any supporters of any.club in Europe to see what has in large part these last three league campaigns been total boring dross ! We pay our money and are entitled to criticize and demand that the clubs resources are used to further the teams and our ambitions.! We are not a lower league side.or a perennial make.up the numbers outfit like Stoke or West Brom we are THE ARSENAL! That used to mean something once Wenger is making damm sure that it doesn't anymore , the longer he lingers the more of his legacy he destroys and the more of an.old time music hall.joke we become! - Post No. 94666

Wrinkly Voyeur  0:54am 13th May 2016

well....errrrr.....overall...errrr....amos...errrrr......do you belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve? - Post No. 94668

Iannis  13:11pm 13th May 2016

What a disgrace of a club. Wenger has an absolute brass neck to praise Liverpool fans as he did recently. That would be the same fans who were instrumental in protesting about ticket prices and successfully forced a change in policy. to the widespread admiration of other clubs and their fans. The same fans who are allowed by the club to take in their excellent banners and posters, and who create one of the best atmospheres in the country. Arsenal, as they were in the days of the bond protests, are terrified of their own fans, and only suffer them as units of purchasing power on their spreadsheets. The reaction of the wenger supporters is astonishing and I find it hard to believe that they act like that spontaneously, and not without premeditated planning. I suspect that Arsenal are very pissed off that many of newspapers featured photos of the 'thanks for the memories, Arsene' banner, and are trying to ensure that it never happens again. At least it has smoked out their true feeling about the fans, which is one of surly contempt. This isn't a football club, it is the outpost of a US retail conglomerate determined to protect its profit stream. - Post No. 94689

TeeCee  9:24am 14th May 2016

No surprise that the 'club' is lying. Arsene Wonga lies to the cameras regularly so why would his minions do anything differently? He ensures everyone sings from the same hymn sheet, as any dictator does. The man is a greedy egotistical myopic failure but with a boss who is only interested in cash, he is the ideal man to lead the club, two incredibly greedy men looking to stuff their pockets to bursting point with moolah. Wonga loves the club? Don't be ridiculous, he loves an overpaid job with no accountability having complete control over everything. THIS is the reason he has never left Arsenal and it's the reason why it has become Arsene FC. Sad sad times for a once great club. - Post No. 94725

Issue #269 - Out Now!

Gooner Editorial

23rd February 2018

It Is Actually Getting Worse

Online Ed: Arsenal’s largely unmotivated players defeated at home