THE WENGER THREAD

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Post Reply
User avatar
Gunner4LiF3
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: CC ZONE

Post by Gunner4LiF3 »

when wenger thinks a player is worth it he goes for him

Narsi was 15 mil this year - replacement for Hleb
Eduardo cost us 10-15 mil last season
Rosicky must have cost similar the season before
Hleb was about 10 in 2005,
Reyes about 10, in 2004

He usually makes 1 big signing a season,

hope that we get someone in before the transfer window closes

Wenger should be given at least 2 more years, not because of what he has done for the club, but because he is a very good manager.

thats just my opinin tho :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Gunner4LiF3 on Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Gooner1315
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:43 pm

Post by Gooner1315 »

gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Trdition shou;ld have sod all to do with it...........it certainly doesn't matter to our club when it comes to choice of kit!

Our traditions are all fine and dandy but if they are built on 1930's values then it is no suprise to see our club being as dynamic as a dead fish!

:roll:
I know tradition has got nothing to do with it. Its just nice that were not jumping into it like the chavs and mancs.

User avatar
SPUDMASHER
Posts: 10739
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:07 am
Location: London Euston
Contact:

Post by SPUDMASHER »

I'm going to add my little bit on this.

If we have as bad a year as many are predicting then one of two things has got to happen.
1. If the board are putting Wenger in a position whereby he wants to spend but cannot, and is forced into statements like we have been hearing, then they need to go, not Wenger.
2. If it turns out that money was available but his stubborness/determination to win without spending prevented him from spending it then he should go.

I don't think he is a stupid man by any means and what he has done for this club is immense but there comes a point where things start to go stale. GG did loads for us too but he clearly was no longer able to motivate or improve his players. Although his departure was ultimately due to the bung incident, his time was up anyway.
Managers need to evolve or they go stale. The exception seems to be Fergusmoan. He is the exception because year after year his board throw the money at him that he wants.
To use an analagy, think of popstars. Why are the like of Madonna and Kylie successful over a long period? Answer, because they evolve! The stones are the exception in that industry. Most others dry up and disappear (Anyone remember BROS?)
We may be playing to packed houses at the Albert Hall at the moment but too much complacency and we will be playing to 3 men and a dog in the Nags head!!!!!!!!

User avatar
NBM
Posts: 3219
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:14 pm
Location: Windlesham, Surrey

Post by NBM »

SPUDMASHER wrote:I'm going to add my little bit on this.

If we have as bad a year as many are predicting then one of two things has got to happen.
1. If the board are putting Wenger in a position whereby he wants to spend but cannot, and is forced into statements like we have been hearing, then they need to go, not Wenger.
2. If it turns out that money was available but his stubborness/determination to win without spending prevented him from spending it then he should go.

I don't think he is a stupid man by any means and what he has done for this club is immense but there comes a point where things start to go stale. GG did loads for us too but he clearly was no longer able to motivate or improve his players. Although his departure was ultimately due to the bung incident, his time was up anyway.
Managers need to evolve or they go stale. The exception seems to be Fergusmoan. He is the exception because year after year his board throw the money at him that he wants.
To use an analagy, think of popstars. Why are the like of Madonna and Kylie successful over a long period? Answer, because they evolve! The stones are the exception in that industry. Most others dry up and disappear (Anyone remember BROS?)
We may be playing to packed houses at the Albert Hall at the moment but too much complacency and we will be playing to 3 men and a dog in the Nags head!!!!!!!!
Brilliantly put!

mrgnu1958
Posts: 13369
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: ESSEX

Post by mrgnu1958 »

I cant believe im replying to the top post..SO I WONT! :evil:

User avatar
augie
Posts: 29497
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Post by augie »

Gunner4LiF3 wrote:when wenger thinks a player is worth it he goes for him

Narsi was 15 mil this year - replacement for Hleb
Eduardo cost us 10-15 mil last season
Rosicky must have cost similar the season before
Hleb was about 10 in 2005,
Reyes about 10, in 2004

He usually makes 1 big signing a season,

hope that we get someone in before the transfer window closes

Wenger should be given at least 2 more years, not because of what he has done for the club, but because he is a very good manager.

thats just my opinin tho :lol: :lol:



Maybe I am over-simplfying (spelling :oops: ) but needs dictate a players worth - when we had centre backs of the ilk of TA6, killer keown and bouldie then another player in that position was nowhere near a necessity so we would have been stupid to spend much money in that area. Now however we are well short in the keeper, centre back and centre midfielder positions and signing quality players in those positions could make a world of difference to our bid to win trophies this season so how can you put a value on that ?

You claim he always make 1 big signing a season (i'll argue that despite their qualities neither sagna or eduardo could be classed as big signings last summer) but I would suggest to you that nasri is THAT big signing for this summer :oops:

Lastly I will again state for the record the opinion that I expressed last may and that was that if wenger doesnt make the necessary additions to the squad and we again fail to win silverware then it is p45 time for him next summer I am afraid :cry: My opposition to the current board is well known at this stage (I would love to see them gone asap) but wenger is nowhere near blameless either and you cannot get away from the fact that we have made a profit from our transfer dealings in each of the last 5 summers and this money has not been re-invested in the squad :x Since the end of last season, a season where our small squad was the doing of us, we have lost 4 (jens,bert,pleb & flamoney) experienced players and have replaced them with an unproven nasri, an unproven 17 year old ramsey, an injury prone portugese player that has played a grand total of 1 game for dortmunds 1st team :oops: :cry: :cry: This is down to wenger no matter what anybody says and his analysis at the tail end of last season that our defense was a problem has now been disregarded cos he now thinks they are ok ?? :banghead: :banghead:

I will accept that money arguement for only so long and I will again point to a few players where he could have upgraded our squad for little or no money spent - jussi jaskielinien, shay given and richard dunne are just a few names off the top of my head. It really isnt good enough for a club of our so called stature and maybe it is time for a massive shake up in the club from the top (boardroom) down to the bottom (the poor tea lady :wink: )

User avatar
donaldo
Posts: 8175
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:33 pm
Location: The gates of hell waiting for Wenger

Post by donaldo »

Since the invincible season there is no doubt the club has fallen behind Man Utd and Chelsea.Arsene seems to think a team of youngsters can beat these two teams who are willing to spend £30m on a player.It just isnt going to happen.Since 2004 we have lost world class players and they have not been replaced. Yes we play the best football in Europe but where are the trophies to show for it.Football is all about winning and Wenger cannot carry on saying be patient things will be ok.This is the most important season for Arsene since he joined the club and there can be no excuses for failure.He cannot blame injuries next season because he has failed to strengthen the squad this summer.
Should Arsene go? No. But ask me again next summer and i might have a different answer

User avatar
Rocky Number Seven
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 am
Location: North Bank, Turnstile D, Block 7, Row 8, Seat 225 / Essex

Re: WENGER OUT!

Post by Rocky Number Seven »

MyOldMan wrote:I need to say this and go agianst the great majority but it's time for Wenger to go. I'm tired of his stuborn attitude towards transfers and the costant refusal to sort out contracts before the time,for not building on our strongest team. We are always playing catch up replacing players lost and have never truly replaced the defence and midfield of old.
Do you really think Wenger wants to have to continue to sell his best players year in year out. Sorry to say it My Old Man but you clearly do not have a clue what you are talking bout or any idea as to what is going on at the club at the moment.

Wengers hands are tied by the money that went into the stadium - before that he would quite freely go out and by established players for large sums of money - Overmars, Henry, Wiltord, Reyes to name just a few.

Because of the stadium we also have a strict wage structure in place to ensure that we do not go over budget and can keep up the repayments on the loans that we have from the banks which the board took out. I'm sure Arsene would have loved to have given Flamoney, Adebayor and especially Cesc new bumper contracts worth 100's of thousands a week - but quite simply its not there due to the debt THE BOARD placed on the club.

Wenger has performed miracles to keep the club competing on this budget - to say he should be sacked is madness - who do u suggest we replace him with??? Name one manager who the club could afford who would keep us in the top 4, earning the club the champions league money it needs to survive.

Idiot :evil: :banghead: :evil: :banghead: :evil: :banghead: :evil: :banghead:

gus ceasar is a legend
Posts: 9078
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:42 pm

Post by gus ceasar is a legend »

Why is he an idiot..........simply because he has a different opinion to you and is hugely frustrated like the rest of us?

You do not know what is really going on inside the club or Wenger's mind yourself so maybe you are just as idiotic to have your standpoint!

:roll:

User avatar
g88ner
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Post by g88ner »

gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Why is he an idiot..........simply because he has a different opinion to you and is hugely frustrated like the rest of us?

You do not know what is really going on inside the club or Wenger's mind yourself so maybe you are just as idiotic to have your standpoint!

:roll:
Very true Gus. We all have opinions, and that's all they are. I may bang the drum about our lack of finances, but at the end of the day, it's just an educated guess that Wenger is working with one hand (or two) tied behind hs back. I could be wrong.

And if it turns out that money is, and has been, available..then few would sympathise with Wenger if things go pair shaped again. Me included
Last edited by g88ner on Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Rocky Number Seven
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 am
Location: North Bank, Turnstile D, Block 7, Row 8, Seat 225 / Essex

Post by Rocky Number Seven »

gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Why is he an idiot..........simply because he has a different opinion to you and is hugely frustrated like the rest of us?

You do not know what is really going on inside the club or Wenger's mind yourself so maybe you are just as idiotic to have your standpoint!

:roll:
I think we all know that the current frustrations among all fans with regards to money etc are due to the current board and the huge amount of debt it has placed on the club. To say that wengers transfer policy needs questioning in my opinion is idiotic. The man and his scouts have worked wonders to ensure that we are still able to compete whislt spending as little money as possible. If it were not for him finding the current crop of youngsters we have we would be in trouble. Even those who dont seem up to it - for example Senderos - Wenger still found on the cheap and they do a job for us.

And the people moaning about the way he is sticking up for is squad - believeing that they will maintain a challenge - well what do u expect. He is not going to turn round and admit himself that his squad isnt good enough. Until there is a complete overhaul of the board and some fresh money brought into the club WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE.

Its that simple :(

gus ceasar is a legend
Posts: 9078
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:42 pm

Post by gus ceasar is a legend »

Fine but why can you not see Wenger deserves to have the finger pointed at him for some the the balls ups we have been forced to endure?

The signing of Rosicky who has the health history similar to Alex Higgins!

The release of Pires too early!

The non-replacement of an international 'keeper with similar!

The mad decision to move Kolo to right back last season after Sagna got injured and so disjointing the whole defence (even though we have good nows how many right backs)!

The constant use of Eboue.

Shall I go on?


Wenger does make mistakes fact and the truth is he has been making more and more of them since 2004! The nonsense that he spouts at times is proof of a man under pressure and some could claim a man who has lost his way.

People always point to what Arsene has acheived in the past and yes it is incredible but it is the future we should all be concerned with. If we do not have the money to challenge genuinely for the league then he should say it rather than telling us that he has great belief in the kids and that the potential and spirit is enough!

:banghead:

User avatar
Goonanana
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Here

Post by Goonanana »

I agree with you up to the idiot part, no need to get personal, we're all on the same side here!

The stadium is having a massive effect on Wenger's spending. In fact, they can even tell the press there is money to spend on players (and I don't doubt that there is) however the strucutre of the loans means we have the wage structure. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if the wage structure formed part of the loan agreement! So the board can say to Wenger you have £30 mill to spend on players this summer, oh but we can only afford £40k a week wages! You find me a 30 mill rated player who'll play for £40k a week (whether that be right or wrong!!) It ain't going to happen!

I firmly believe moving to the stadium was a step in the right direction but it means that we are going to have a period when we are in transition and 300 million pound investments aren't followed by a sohrt term transition - im talking up to 5 years here!

The invincibles was an amazing point in our history and one which marked the end of a great era. If we were going to have to pick a time to have a few years of transition then I think that was a good time after being spoilt by such a season. We can't have our cake and eat it! It was a choice - new stadium and rebuilding the coffers, or spend the money on players and stay at highbury!

Being a fan of analgies that I am - see this months gooner lol - I'll paint another one (some artistic license is used):

You have a 50 seater restraunt, you get a great manager in who earns your restraunt 1 million a year in profit because he gets the best chefs in and designs a great menu!

Now after 10 years of this lovely business you have a choice. Either spend the 10 million you earned, plus take a five million loan to build a new 100 seater restraunt that will earn you 2 million a year but means one, you pay 500k a year in interest and two you have to get in some new trainee chefs to replace your head chefs as and when they retire or you can take option two which is to spend your 10 million on the wages of some of the best chefs in the world and win some michelin stars

Fast forward another 5 years....

Had you taken the first option you'd now have 7.5 million back in the bank and are again able to hire one or two top chefs who should start winning you some michelin stars

If you'd have taken the second option you'd have just 5 million in the bank, you'd have won some prize money for your stars giving you say 2.5 million extra but your top chefs wage bill is really starting to bite and your outgoings are spiralling out fo control

Now we come to ten years later....

Had you taken the first option, your loan is paid off, you have had another 10 put into the bank, your guaranteed 2 million a year still and you can buy the best chefs in the world and wait for those 3 michelin stars for years to come!

Had you taken the second option then you're only 5 million richer plus your chefs have cost you most of that for the time they've been there and they are demanding more money or they're going, you can't keep up with the bill, you need a bigger resteraunt to keep them happy..can you afford one?? NO! what do you do? take out a 10 million loan you can't service??


Now if you are an economist or diagree no doubt you can punch a load of holes in that analagy but gernally I think that covers the business plan at Arsenal.

Whether the plan was right or wrong is up to you to decide but the point im getting at is this....if you had chosen option one I'd want to make damn sure I ahd the best manager int he world who could get more out of trainee chefs than anyone else in the world! The answer certainly isn't to sack him after 3 years because he's not won any michelin stars!!

End of crazy restaeraunt post - phew i'm exhausted :oops:

User avatar
Rocky Number Seven
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 am
Location: North Bank, Turnstile D, Block 7, Row 8, Seat 225 / Essex

Post by Rocky Number Seven »

gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Fine but why can you not see Wenger deserves to have the finger pointed at him for some the the balls ups we have been forced to endure?

The signing of Rosicky who has the health history similar to Alex Higgins!

The release of Pires too early!

The non-replacement of an international 'keeper with similar!

The mad decision to move Kolo to right back last season after Sagna got injured and so disjointing the whole defence (even though we have good nows how many right backs)!

The constant use of Eboue.

Shall I go on?


Wenger does make mistakes fact and the truth is he has been making more and more of them since 2004! The nonsense that he spouts at times is proof of a man under pressure and some could claim a man who has lost his way.

People always point to what Arsene has acheived in the past and yes it is incredible but it is the future we should all be concerned with. If we do not have the money to challenge genuinely for the league then he should say it rather than telling us that he has great belief in the kids and that the potential and spirit is enough!

:banghead:
Gus i agree with regards to a lot of things you have put here - especially with regards to the Toure situation when we have both Eboue and Hoyte who can play Right Back.

Personally i think Almunia will have a blinder this year now that he has the confidence of the boss, if i am proved wrong so be it - hopefully i am not.

The point i was arguing atthe start was that AW just doesnt have any money available and therefore it is simply not his fault that the Big Name signings havent been coming in each year and greedy players are not given super pay rises after one good season. We have to remember that it is not only the transfer fee but the wages that such players demand.

I also think that this was the only reason for Pires leaving was that Rosicky was available for a reasonably low transfer fee and would be on a much cheaper contract - again, budgeting. I'm not saying that its right because even now i think Bobby could do a job for us, i am just saying that is what i believe to be the reasoning behind it.

Wenger is by no means flawless, and although i understand people calling for his head i think when people look at the bigger picture they should realise that he is actually doing a very good job at the moment.

I want success like every other gooner but i dont see it happening in any form other than perhaps the FA Cup - unless we get some money from somewhere to invest in the squad. In the meantime i am grateful for Arsene to carry on getting us in the Champs League spaces because I dread to think what will happen to the club with the current financial problems if one season we dont. :shock:

gus ceasar is a legend
Posts: 9078
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:42 pm

Post by gus ceasar is a legend »

We agree though that some money was available this summer............Wenger tells us there is still more money in the pot even after the acquisition of Ramsey and Nasri.

Is it just the boards fault that Arsnen has choosen to spend the cash available on players tha\t are luxury items when what we need is the basics? The world and his wife can all see we are crying out for replacements in the spine of the team, 'keeper, centre hald, holding midfielder and all of those positions require experience!

So what do we get.......another right footed player to play left midfield, a 18 year old Welsh lad with potential and anyone else we can get on the cheap because we only buy when the price suits us completely!

I am fucked off with the board as much as anyone but Wenger has to take some blame too!

Five years without a trophy would be too long considering we were Invincibles not too far back!

:banghead:

Post Reply