THE WENGER THREAD

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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supergeorgegraham
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by supergeorgegraham »

sk-gtfo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:57 am
augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 am
I have a real issue with that comment - what is our real level ? Is 6th place really our level in a wealth driven football world ? We are a massive club and in stature and wealth we make the scum look like a sunday league club by comparison, and whilst historically the victims are a bigger club than us, we are a wealthier club and have a much more promising future than them going forward - if things stay the way they are (with current ownerships for example), the victims are on their wat to becoming a bigger version of villa - in other words a club that used to be at the top, but has now been passed out and left behind.
I will also add that the chavs have most certainly wound back on their expenditure, and if that doesnt change, they too will be overtaken by us cos we are a FAR bigger club than them.
Err I don't see how we're much different than Liverpool?, both clubs have American owners who wont invest much if any of their own cash, Spurs have never won the league in colour but they are building a stadium that is equal or better than the bowl and if they can get the finance right, much easier now than when we did it, then they will match us or even overtake us.

I think you are basing a lot of this on being hopeful rather than realistic, the league is likely to be sewn up by City, United or maybe Chavski and the best we can hope for is trying to get back to competing for 4th place with Spuds and Liverpool, of course the trouble is we've had over a decade of "4th place trophies" so few can be arsed to care anymore, inc myself.

:banghead:
Let's get one thing straight here both Liverpool and Arsenal are massive clubs. Football is not about the last 12 years or your oil money it's about history. Having American owners is a terrible mistake as there is a lack of drive but in my opinion only United can claim to be bigger than Arsenal or Liverpool although Chelsea and even City will be attracting more younger fans because of their players and success.

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NickF
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by NickF »

supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:15 am
Let's get one thing straight here both Liverpool and Arsenal are massive clubs. Football is not about the last 12 years or your oil money it's about history. Having American owners is a terrible mistake as there is a lack of drive but in my opinion only United can claim to be bigger than Arsenal or Liverpool although Chelsea and even City will be attracting more younger fans because of their players and success.
History is just that, history - something to brag about. Villa and Forest have history and look at them now.
Chelsea and City are creating their history now. Nothing wrong with that, I wish we were adding to ours.

We are a massive club but have been seriously underperforming for years.

supergeorgegraham
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by supergeorgegraham »

NickF wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:22 am
supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:15 am
Let's get one thing straight here both Liverpool and Arsenal are massive clubs. Football is not about the last 12 years or your oil money it's about history. Having American owners is a terrible mistake as there is a lack of drive but in my opinion only United can claim to be bigger than Arsenal or Liverpool although Chelsea and even City will be attracting more younger fans because of their players and success.
History is just that, history - something to brag about. Villa and Forest have history and look at them now.
Chelsea and City are creating their history now. Nothing wrong with that, I wish we were adding to ours.

We are a massive club but have been seriously underperforming for years.
I agree with that but we've been through it before. Difference this time is our board and Kronke. You won't see a Arsenal League title under Stan. Not sure about Liverpool I think Klopp will come close.

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NickF
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by NickF »

supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am
NickF wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:22 am
supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:15 am
Let's get one thing straight here both Liverpool and Arsenal are massive clubs. Football is not about the last 12 years or your oil money it's about history. Having American owners is a terrible mistake as there is a lack of drive but in my opinion only United can claim to be bigger than Arsenal or Liverpool although Chelsea and even City will be attracting more younger fans because of their players and success.
History is just that, history - something to brag about. Villa and Forest have history and look at them now.
Chelsea and City are creating their history now. Nothing wrong with that, I wish we were adding to ours.

We are a massive club but have been seriously underperforming for years.
I agree with that but we've been through it before. Difference this time is our board and Kronke. You won't see a Arsenal League title under Stan. Not sure about Liverpool I think Klopp will come close.
This may go against popular opinion but I think we will. Stan ain't going to put his hand in his pocket and spend his own money but with the right manager I believe we can win the title again. United managed it with the Glaziers who are just as bad if not worse.

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augie
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by augie »

sk-gtfo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:57 am
augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 am
I have a real issue with that comment - what is our real level ? Is 6th place really our level in a wealth driven football world ? We are a massive club and in stature and wealth we make the scum look like a sunday league club by comparison, and whilst historically the victims are a bigger club than us, we are a wealthier club and have a much more promising future than them going forward - if things stay the way they are (with current ownerships for example), the victims are on their wat to becoming a bigger version of villa - in other words a club that used to be at the top, but has now been passed out and left behind.
I will also add that the chavs have most certainly wound back on their expenditure, and if that doesnt change, they too will be overtaken by us cos we are a FAR bigger club than them.
Err I don't see how we're much different than Liverpool?, both clubs have American owners who wont invest much if any of their own cash, Spurs have never won the league in colour but they are building a stadium that is equal or better than the bowl and if they can get the finance right, much easier now than when we did it, then they will match us or even overtake us.

I think you are basing a lot of this on being hopeful rather than realistic, the league is likely to be sewn up by City, United or maybe Chavski and the best we can hope for is trying to get back to competing for 4th place with Spuds and Liverpool, of course the trouble is we've had over a decade of "4th place trophies" so few can be arsed to care anymore, inc myself.

:banghead:


How long since the victims won a trophy of any significance ? How long since they won a league ? When did they last sign a genuine top class high profile player ? At this moment in time we have a better team than them but they have a better manager than us. I would be the first to say that we are hugely underperforming, but in comparison to that lot we are hugely successful. We are (at the moment anyway) a more attractive proposition to potential signings than the victims are, and part of that is that players will always want to live in london rather than hubcap central. We are a much wealthier club than they are, and that is beyond debate. I would say that at the moment they are at their maximum whilst we are nowhere near - a better manager would have this team a much higher and better level, and that would push them behind us again, and the longer we perform better than them, the more support we will gather cos perception is everything these days.

For what it is worth, I suspect that they will also miss out on top 4 this season, and how that impacts on their ability to hold on to the likes of salah remains to be seen

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augie
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by augie »

NickF wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:58 am
supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:28 am
NickF wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:22 am
supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:15 am
Let's get one thing straight here both Liverpool and Arsenal are massive clubs. Football is not about the last 12 years or your oil money it's about history. Having American owners is a terrible mistake as there is a lack of drive but in my opinion only United can claim to be bigger than Arsenal or Liverpool although Chelsea and even City will be attracting more younger fans because of their players and success.
History is just that, history - something to brag about. Villa and Forest have history and look at them now.
Chelsea and City are creating their history now. Nothing wrong with that, I wish we were adding to ours.

We are a massive club but have been seriously underperforming for years.
I agree with that but we've been through it before. Difference this time is our board and Kronke. You won't see a Arsenal League title under Stan. Not sure about Liverpool I think Klopp will come close.
This may go against popular opinion but I think we will. Stan ain't going to put his hand in his pocket and spend his own money but with the right manager I believe we can win the title again. United managed it with the Glaziers who are just as bad if not worse.



Agree with the first part but disagree with the second part - it is criminal that a team containing some of the talents we have had in recent seasons, has performed as poorly as we have :oops: If we had a manager with any concept of tactics and practicality, and a guy who recognised the need to sometimes buy defenders instead of always buying attacking players, we would have done much, much better than we have and would possibly have won the league leicester did, instead of finishing 10 pts behind them :oops: :oops: :oops:
For all the stick the glaziers have got, the one thing that (with exception of moyes) that can never be said is that they have not backed their managers in the transfer market - look at the money they have spent since taking over and you will see what I mean, and it is very noticable that the fans opposition to the glaziers has all but disappeared these days

General
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by General »

sk-gtfo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:50 am
General wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:52 am
It's astonishing the amount of inferiority complex Wenger has sowed in the minds of our fans. We are a major club in one of the most desirable Cities in the world. Yes we are competing against richer clubs but we are far from paupers. Given the choice between us and City, Gaurdiola would've chosen us if you believe the reports. The notion that top managers would be apprehensive about managing us has absolutely no basis whatsoever.
Apart from the fact that we don't have any of today's top managers at the club, we have Wenger.

I don't get all this blame Wenger for staying stuff?, if someone offered you £10M a year would you leave?, none of the dozen or so manager's that Chelski have gone through in Wenger's time decided to leave (?), they were sacked due to under performing, it should not be up to the manager to decide when is right.

So it either has to be one of two things; SK using Wenger as a shield or actually thinks he is still a top manager, not sure which of those is worse?, or the top managers don't want to join us because - yes you guessed it - they don't want to work under an austerity model.

Either way it comes back to the wiggy b*stard, Wenger should be history by now but for one or more of the reasons above the wiggy b*stard wants him there.

:censored:
I'm not going to help propagate another tedious merry go round debate on who the biggest evil is out of Wenger and Kroenke, I was Wenger out before the latter became majority shareholder and know we have some longstanding fundamental footballing issues at this club. We owe just as much of our survival during the austerity years to the incompetence of our direct rivals like we do with Wenger.

Yes Stan should clean up the mess created by our previous board members and fire him. Or our fans should be protesting en masse to get the fraud out instead on whinging on social media. For various reasons none of this is happening and we can debate till the cows come home.

If you asked me whether we could challenge for major honours with our current ownership and financial model, I would say yes but I accept others might disagree. To the contrary there is no debating that we haven't a hope in hell in competing with a fraud masquerading as a football coach.

Bob Bayliss
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Bob Bayliss »

augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:05 pm
sk-gtfo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:57 am
augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 am
I have a real issue with that comment - what is our real level ? Is 6th place really our level in a wealth driven football world ? We are a massive club and in stature and wealth we make the scum look like a sunday league club by comparison, and whilst historically the victims are a bigger club than us, we are a wealthier club and have a much more promising future than them going forward - if things stay the way they are (with current ownerships for example), the victims are on their wat to becoming a bigger version of villa - in other words a club that used to be at the top, but has now been passed out and left behind.
I will also add that the chavs have most certainly wound back on their expenditure, and if that doesnt change, they too will be overtaken by us cos we are a FAR bigger club than them.
Err I don't see how we're much different than Liverpool?, both clubs have American owners who wont invest much if any of their own cash, Spurs have never won the league in colour but they are building a stadium that is equal or better than the bowl and if they can get the finance right, much easier now than when we did it, then they will match us or even overtake us.

I think you are basing a lot of this on being hopeful rather than realistic, the league is likely to be sewn up by City, United or maybe Chavski and the best we can hope for is trying to get back to competing for 4th place with Spuds and Liverpool, of course the trouble is we've had over a decade of "4th place trophies" so few can be arsed to care anymore, inc myself.

:banghead:


How long since the victims won a trophy of any significance ? How long since they won a league ? When did they last sign a genuine top class high profile player ? At this moment in time we have a better team than them but they have a better manager than us. I would be the first to say that we are hugely underperforming, but in comparison to that lot we are hugely successful. We are (at the moment anyway) a more attractive proposition to potential signings than the victims are, and part of that is that players will always want to live in london rather than hubcap central. We are a much wealthier club than they are, and that is beyond debate. I would say that at the moment they are at their maximum whilst we are nowhere near - a better manager would have this team a much higher and better level, and that would push them behind us again, and the longer we perform better than them, the more support we will gather cos perception is everything these days.

For what it is worth, I suspect that they will also miss out on top 4 this season, and how that impacts on their ability to hold on to the likes of salah remains to be seen
I would have though Mo Salah fits the bill, doesn't he?

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DB10GOONER
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by DB10GOONER »

General wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:18 am
We earned £200m approximately from broadcasting last season, £150m was attributable to PL money and £50m to CL. That Mirror article is a red herring as it's about international payments.
Even that (if it is accurate) just proves my point that not being in the CL is not the financial albatross around our neck that it might have been 10 or even 5 years ago.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by DB10GOONER »

augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:57 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:50 am
The CL money is practically irrelevant to a business like our club. We get paid the following in prize money:

£11.4m group stage
£5.4 round 16
£5.8 quarter final

 https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... tgalleries

We seldom reach the quarter finals so we average £17m per season from it. The PL TV deal on the other hand paid us £39m last season.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-11285539

And that figure will only go up with the new TV deal. And also add in the likelihood that the Big 6 will force a redistribution of the money to benefit themselves more at some point in the next few years....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... ue-rivals/

Wenger not securing CL means nothing to Kroenke. The TV money and merchandising bring in far more particularly as we open up the Asian African and Chinese markets.

We are indeed in a footballing decline (at least to us purist football fans that place trophies over profits) but certainly not in decline as a business model. And won't be for the foreseeable future.




Again everything is conjecture here, but I would imagine that a few years of failing to qualify for the champs league plus a squad bereft of top quality high profile players, will have a serious knock on effect to our popularity in the asian and (to a lesser degree) african markets
I agree augie but I would counter that the level of decline that is required to have that negative impact is still a few years away even with Kroenke and Wenger at the helm. The real crux is how bad things might be by the time Wenger finally fucks off to the French national team job and/or we finally see the back of the wig wearing parasite.

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augie
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by augie »

Bob Bayliss wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:06 pm
augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:05 pm
sk-gtfo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:57 am
augie wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 am
I have a real issue with that comment - what is our real level ? Is 6th place really our level in a wealth driven football world ? We are a massive club and in stature and wealth we make the scum look like a sunday league club by comparison, and whilst historically the victims are a bigger club than us, we are a wealthier club and have a much more promising future than them going forward - if things stay the way they are (with current ownerships for example), the victims are on their wat to becoming a bigger version of villa - in other words a club that used to be at the top, but has now been passed out and left behind.
I will also add that the chavs have most certainly wound back on their expenditure, and if that doesnt change, they too will be overtaken by us cos we are a FAR bigger club than them.
Err I don't see how we're much different than Liverpool?, both clubs have American owners who wont invest much if any of their own cash, Spurs have never won the league in colour but they are building a stadium that is equal or better than the bowl and if they can get the finance right, much easier now than when we did it, then they will match us or even overtake us.

I think you are basing a lot of this on being hopeful rather than realistic, the league is likely to be sewn up by City, United or maybe Chavski and the best we can hope for is trying to get back to competing for 4th place with Spuds and Liverpool, of course the trouble is we've had over a decade of "4th place trophies" so few can be arsed to care anymore, inc myself.

:banghead:


How long since the victims won a trophy of any significance ? How long since they won a league ? When did they last sign a genuine top class high profile player ? At this moment in time we have a better team than them but they have a better manager than us. I would be the first to say that we are hugely underperforming, but in comparison to that lot we are hugely successful. We are (at the moment anyway) a more attractive proposition to potential signings than the victims are, and part of that is that players will always want to live in london rather than hubcap central. We are a much wealthier club than they are, and that is beyond debate. I would say that at the moment they are at their maximum whilst we are nowhere near - a better manager would have this team a much higher and better level, and that would push them behind us again, and the longer we perform better than them, the more support we will gather cos perception is everything these days.

For what it is worth, I suspect that they will also miss out on top 4 this season, and how that impacts on their ability to hold on to the likes of salah remains to be seen
I would have though Mo Salah fits the bill, doesn't he?



Salah was a failed chav reject who had one or two good seasons in a poor italian league - when the victims signed him, he was not high profile nor top class

General
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by General »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:24 pm
General wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:18 am
We earned £200m approximately from broadcasting last season, £150m was attributable to PL money and £50m to CL. That Mirror article is a red herring as it's about international payments.
Even that (if it is accurate) just proves my point that not being in the CL is not the financial albatross around our neck that it might have been 10 or even 5 years ago.
That's taken from our 2017 financial statement (not the Mirror) which gives a good picture of the effects of CL money on our financial health.

What has negated the effect of no CL money this season is the recent sale of players to balance the books not because the money itself is insignificant. CL money represents half of our working capital, if that's not significant then I don't know what is. TV money as huge as it is doesn't even cover our wage bill. Financially our situation is delicately balanced and we are in no position to treat £50m as loose change.

General
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by General »

supergeorgegraham wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:08 am
General wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:07 pm
Nos89 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:01 pm
supergeorgegraham wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:33 am
Seeing how well the English teams in this years Champions League are doing also raises some questions. All those years we got past the group stage to be then beaten and in a few cases thrashed. I guess that means the foreign teams are missing us this season and are seen in Europe as an easy touch.
But look who kept beating us. Bayern Munich and Barcelona. Last year's 10-2 drubbing was the most embarrassing result in our history. When you think that two seasons earlier they knocked us out on goal difference. Tottenham haven't thrashed anyone, and it will be interesting to see how Chelsea fare against a strong Barcelona. It's staggering to think only 7 years ago we were beating probably the best Barcelona team.
Don't forget botched jobs against Monaco and AC Milan. Comprehensively beaten by both teams in the first leg.

Tactically, the English teams remaining in the competition are streets ahead of us and I doubt any of them would get embarrassed like the way we often have. We don't come back from 2-0 down at Juventus.
Totally agree we have been a waste of space in that competition since the final of 2006. Seeing how well the other English teams have done this year proves to me we don't deserve a place in the CL.
We should've been banned from the CL after that first leg fiasco against Monaco. Absolute incompetence of the highest order I've never seen anything like it. We somehow managed to pull one back in injury time only to gift them another goal straight away.

Personally I'm enjoying watching the CL this season without our farcical involvement. Watching chavs v Barca yesterday, at no point did either team become stretched and caught in 1 v 1 situations like we often do. It was a disciplined and compact tussle, Wenger could never instil this sort of discipline let alone execute this game plan.

FA cup final often held up as some tactical masterclass but we still managed to concede against 10men. When we put in a so called top performance we draw or win marginally whereas when we come up against an outstanding team we get badly hammered.

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Nos89
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Nos89 »

Interesting, if miss guided question asked to mourinho about Sanchez in the post match interview. Reporter asked if Sanchez performs better in a free role ( like he had at Arsenal) or a rigid tactical system, like he has to at United.

A confused Mourinho commented about reporters and pundits creating a new game, but, did say, when the team have the ball, they move forward together, when the team doesn't have the ball, the team defend together, it's that simple.

We know Wenger always encouraged players to enjoy and express themselves on the pitch but shows little or no attention to how the players should behave without the ball. Xhaka a great example, he probably been told to operate between penalty areas during open play, but doesn't think to track or challenge an opposing player running towards the penalty area, as it's not what he's been told to do.

I'm sure when Wenger leaves Mourinho would apply for the job, just to show that he could win the league with the same players as Wenger had at his disposal, proving he's the better manager. I believe we have a squad of players who could win the league with some proper coaching and organisation.

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Midz
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Midz »

the fucking idiot wants to keep Welbeck now. please can we just be rid of both.

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