The Merged George Graham Superthread!

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GranadaJoe
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by GranadaJoe »

SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense

It's true, and whenever I think of the great GG matches and the era in general, it's always tinged with seeing him managing the Scum against us, which is unforgivable.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by DB10GOONER »

bobbybigb wrote:I started taking my 10 year old daughter to Highbury with me beginning of 1988/89 season. She was a massive George Graham fan and partway through the season a red top newspaper printed a story that our George was being approached by a rival 1st Div club (Forest i think)
Carrie was devastated at the thought that George might leave and sent him a letter written by herself in 10 year old writing style begging him to stay at the Arsenal.
I thought no more of it until about 1 week later when a letter arrived addressed to my daughter written and signed by George stating that he was fully focused concentrating on our season and thanking her for her kind words and support and enclosed a team photo signed by the whole first team squad.
Class.....those where the days when we were a huge club that managed to retain its Family feel and sense of belonging . No fighting amongst ourselves in those days .
George epitomized the Arsenal way and what we stood for and the reasons why all our rivals feared and envied us. A legend.
Great story, mate. From so many stories I've heard it seems typical of GG. 8)

It also reminds me of a bloke used to be with the Dublin supporters club (I never joined but met a lot of them in pubs or at Highbury over the years). Anyway this guy was a kids' coach and used to write and formally apply for the Arsenal managers job every time we replaced our manager, dating from (I think) Mee's resignation in 1976. According to his mate, the guy put together a very professional and in-depth application letter. Every single time he got a formal response on headed paper from the club politely rejecting his application and thanking him for applying. I just thought it was cool they wrote back to him rather than just ignore him and bin it. 8)

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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by Almunia is a clown »

SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense
Difference between GG & Wenger is that GG STILL managed to WIN a European trophy 3 years after winning the league championship! :barscarf:

Something that Wenger will NEVER win! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

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Sean
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by Sean »

Sheer class 8)

I've seen a couple of good threads on George, here and here :barscarf:

I was looking over how he did post-Arsenal. He rescued a relegation-threatened Leeds to mid-table in his first season, finished 5th in his second season and led briefly at the start of his third season before handing over to David O'Leary who went on to take them to 4th. He also brought Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink to English football. At the scum, George was mid-table in his three seasons, but won the League Cup in his first season. It was around the time that Daniel Levy came in that they sacked George for a flimsy reason. The scum fans never appreciated him.

He was only 57 when he stopped managing. 15 years ago now. I felt he had another club job in him. He did a bit of punditry on Sky and that's it.

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SteveO 35
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by SteveO 35 »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense
Difference between GG & Wenger is that GG STILL managed to WIN a European trophy 3 years after winning the league championship! :barscarf:

Something that Wenger will NEVER win! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
He won the ECWC.....which if it was still around would have all modern day snobs writing it off as a Mickey Mouse cup like they do with the League Cup and Europa League

What GG did do very well is manage to win games against the odds against the likes of Parma. I would never back Wenger to knock out any modern day equivalent, nor do I expect him to win any of the games in the PL that we're not expected to (namely Chavski home or away, or Man Ure up at OT)

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DB10GOONER
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Almunia is a clown wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense
Difference between GG & Wenger is that GG STILL managed to WIN a European trophy 3 years after winning the league championship! :barscarf:

Something that Wenger will NEVER win! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
He won the ECWC.....which if it was still around would have all modern day snobs writing it off as a Mickey Mouse cup like they do with the League Cup and Europa League

What GG did do very well is manage to win games against the odds against the likes of Parma. I would never back Wenger to knock out any modern day equivalent, nor do I expect him to win any of the games in the PL that we're not expected to (namely Chavski home or away, or Man Ure up at OT)
A slightly unfair comparison though. :rubchin:

You are comparing GG at his peak with Wenger now (at his worst). GG certainly did get huge results against big teams and against the odds, but Wenger did also get huge results against big teams and against the odds - at his peak in 96-06.

Wenger has been allowed to wallow in his decline for 10 years. I wonder how GG would have ended up if he'd been allowed to stay another 10 years past his best? Probably the same as Wenger, watching the game pass him by, desperately clinging to his self belief that what was once a formula for success could be so again, despite every evidence to the contrary.

Alot of the fondness for GG is still there partly because (despite the bung and the poor football towards the end) he was gone before real decline set in. Similarly, how would we all view Wenger now if he had resigned after the 06 season, or even the 08 season? Very differently, I'd venture.

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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by supergeorgegraham »

George was with us at a time when we had our best youth coming through. Adams, Rocastle, Thomas, Merson etc all became great players. We just didn't have any decent youth players coming through in the early 90s. When you look at football now it's so rare for a team to find a Rashford. He must have saved United about 60 Million.
We still won a cup every year but he did bypass our midfield in the latter years.
One very Wenger signing was Limpar who was an early Llungburg. Would like to see us find our 3rd Swedish genius.

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SteveO 35
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:
Almunia is a clown wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense
Difference between GG & Wenger is that GG STILL managed to WIN a European trophy 3 years after winning the league championship! :barscarf:

Something that Wenger will NEVER win! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
He won the ECWC.....which if it was still around would have all modern day snobs writing it off as a Mickey Mouse cup like they do with the League Cup and Europa League

What GG did do very well is manage to win games against the odds against the likes of Parma. I would never back Wenger to knock out any modern day equivalent, nor do I expect him to win any of the games in the PL that we're not expected to (namely Chavski home or away, or Man Ure up at OT)
A slightly unfair comparison though. :rubchin:

You are comparing GG at his peak with Wenger now (at his worst). GG certainly did get huge results against big teams and against the odds, but Wenger did also get huge results against big teams and against the odds - at his peak in 96-06.

Wenger has been allowed to wallow in his decline for 10 years. I wonder how GG would have ended up if he'd been allowed to stay another 10 years past his best? Probably the same as Wenger, watching the game pass him by, desperately clinging to his self belief that what was once a formula for success could be so again, despite every evidence to the contrary.

Alot of the fondness for GG is still there partly because (despite the bung and the poor football towards the end) he was gone before real decline set in. Similarly, how would we all view Wenger now if he had resigned after the 06 season, or even the 08 season? Very differently, I'd venture.
Agree completely about GG - he was already 2-3 years into driving fans mad with his cheap as chip signings in the new PL era and was still searching for the next Steve Bould for £300k when the game was going global and multi million pound fees were becoming more and more common. I have no doubt he would have carried on the decline were it not for putting his fingers in the till

I do think though that the key difference was those one off big cup games where he could still get us 'up for it'.......even in his years of decline. The season where we won both domestic cups we finished 10th but still managed to beat Sheffield Wednesday (who finished higher) twice. The year we won the ECWC we finished 21 points behind Man Ure, and when we were robbed by Nayim the following year we'd seen off far superior sides all the way through the competition despite being utter shite in the league and finishing 12th. During Wenger's years of decline (for me 2008 onwards), victories against the big managers and teams have been too few to mention.

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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:
Almunia is a clown wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense
Difference between GG & Wenger is that GG STILL managed to WIN a European trophy 3 years after winning the league championship! :barscarf:

Something that Wenger will NEVER win! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
He won the ECWC.....which if it was still around would have all modern day snobs writing it off as a Mickey Mouse cup like they do with the League Cup and Europa League

What GG did do very well is manage to win games against the odds against the likes of Parma. I would never back Wenger to knock out any modern day equivalent, nor do I expect him to win any of the games in the PL that we're not expected to (namely Chavski home or away, or Man Ure up at OT)
A slightly unfair comparison though. :rubchin:

You are comparing GG at his peak with Wenger now (at his worst). GG certainly did get huge results against big teams and against the odds, but Wenger did also get huge results against big teams and against the odds - at his peak in 96-06.

Wenger has been allowed to wallow in his decline for 10 years. I wonder how GG would have ended up if he'd been allowed to stay another 10 years past his best? Probably the same as Wenger, watching the game pass him by, desperately clinging to his self belief that what was once a formula for success could be so again, despite every evidence to the contrary.

Alot of the fondness for GG is still there partly because (despite the bung and the poor football towards the end) he was gone before real decline set in. Similarly, how would we all view Wenger now if he had resigned after the 06 season, or even the 08 season? Very differently, I'd venture.
Agree completely about GG - he was already 2-3 years into driving fans mad with his cheap as chip signings in the new PL era and was still searching for the next Steve Bould for £300k when the game was going global and multi million pound fees were becoming more and more common. I have no doubt he would have carried on the decline were it not for putting his fingers in the till

I do think though that the key difference was those one off big cup games where he could still get us 'up for it'.......even in his years of decline. The season where we won both domestic cups we finished 10th but still managed to beat Sheffield Wednesday (who finished higher) twice. The year we won the ECWC we finished 21 points behind Man Ure, and when we were robbed by Nayim the following year we'd seen off far superior sides all the way through the competition despite being utter shite in the league and finishing 12th. During Wenger's years of decline (for me 2008 onwards), victories against the big managers and teams have been too few to mention.
Yeah, I'd agree with that mostly. I suppose the point for me really is that Wenger's decline has lasted a decade and is far more noticeable with far more examples of failures and losses whereas GG was gone a year or two into his decline so was still getting the players up for those one-off big games and cup runs. My point was that at similar times in their decline (say a year or two into it), both GG and Wenger could still get one-off performances out of their players. If GG had been let fester away for 10 years I think his decline would have matched Wenger's.

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Herd
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by Herd »

Much is made of Wengers lack of funds for the transfer market but this is nothing New .
Graham had even less to work with ,Arsenal were cheap on wages for players and wouldnt pay the money on the transfer market either .
Many players wouldnt play for us when available because we wouldnt pay the money partucularly UK based and George had to really scour the markets abroad for players .
More and more money was coming into the game at this stage but Arsenal were slow to react ,very similar to today really !
He remains my hero !

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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by SteveO 35 »

Herd wrote:Much is made of Wengers lack of funds for the transfer market but this is nothing New .
Graham had even less to work with ,Arsenal were cheap on wages for players and wouldnt pay the money on the transfer market either .
Many players wouldnt play for us when available because we wouldnt pay the money partucularly UK based and George had to really scour the markets abroad for players .
More and more money was coming into the game at this stage but Arsenal were slow to react ,very similar to today really !
He remains my hero !
There was even less money available when he was trousering it and making sure dodgy Scandinavian agents were weighed in too !

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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by Almunia is a clown »

SteveO 35 wrote: There was even less money available when he was trousering it and making sure dodgy Scandinavian agents were weighed in too !
As if Wenger hasn't been doing similar, check out some of his transfer deals, singing crap players that hardly get a game but quids in for agents & their clients. :barscarf:

The truth is out there somewhere :banghead: :banghead:

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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by Nos89 »

GranadaJoe wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:Sadly he also knew how to turn us from champions to mid table chumps playing absolutely dross football in the space of 3 years too !

He knew......just like Arsene knew. Past tense

It's true, and whenever I think of the great GG matches and the era in general, it's always tinged with seeing him managing the Scum against us, which is unforgivable.
I've always thought that a manager has a shelf life of 9 seasons at a club he's been successful with. Although nowadays 3 seasons seem to be the maximum. Obviously, there are the odd exception to this rule. Fergie being one. Wenger not being the other.
I believe Graham did say the 94/95 season was going to be his last as he taken the club as far as he could. But he got sacked before he a dignified send off.

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SteveO 35
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by SteveO 35 »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote: There was even less money available when he was trousering it and making sure dodgy Scandinavian agents were weighed in too !
As if Wenger hasn't been doing similar, check out some of his transfer deals, singing crap players that hardly get a game but quids in for agents & their clients. :barscarf:

The truth is out there somewhere :banghead: :banghead:
We can only hope he gets caught !

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Herd
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Re: The Merged George Graham Superthread!

Post by Herd »

There was even less money available when he was trousering it and making sure dodgy Scandinavian agents were weighed in too !
Victimless crimes here Stevo .. [/quote]
The club was making profits so they would have to pay tax on them . Overpay for a player and take some kickback offshore and the only loser is the taxman . Also Graham wasnt in it alone and we were still doing it after he left . We overpaid for Berkamp by nearly double Dein did that deal . Still it reduced our profits and again only the taxman lost out .Its only corruption Stevo mothing to be concerned about .
Last edited by Herd on Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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