Manchester City (A) | PL | Sun 18 Dec 16:00

[bergkamp10]

I was one of the morons who thought we would win today

My prediction was more to do with Man City's inadequacies than any delusional belief our own quality but I expected us to score at least twice against their dreadful backline (which improved when Sagna came on)

It was an abysmal 2nd half performance from Arsenal though and no excuses can be made for going down so timidly for the second time in 5 days. The mentality is pathetic and the leadership non-existent.

But not to worry ... Wenger has shown he has recognised the problem so it shouldnt happen again. Yep, the reason we lost was because both goals were offside and we dropped physically .

Things just cannot improve when the man in charge cannot (or will not) identify the real reasons

Cash, This last sentence is exactly what runs through the club. I talked to Steve Bould a few years back & I was quiet stocked when I asked him how the defence was schooled, how they were trained and what direction he took in that process. I think Pat Rice was still there then, but I was totally stocked to say he was basically in not so many words, did what he was told by Wenger. When one man has too much power, say then this is what happens.

Don't get me wrong I think Wenger has changed our club beyond all recognition. But he cannot change the way he sees the game. You have to fight & fight for the win in some games. In particular too many players have joined the club and haven't improved under him.

In particular OX is a good example, but one of many. I think Arsenal should now seriously be considering the identification of a new manager. We should be careful for what we wish for mind, as when he does go, it will be a tough few years ahead as the club adapts.

He is paid way too much for what he now delivers to the club, which is not progress in any shape. It is time for a change!!


recognizing or being recognized, in particular:
synonyms: identification, recollection, recall, remembrance
synonyms: identification, recollection, recall, remembrance

[SteveO 35]

Had a fantastic non-watching kind of day. Haven't seen any of the action about from the 30 second reel on Sky late last night showing the goals. Heard that TO1AW wasn't happy about Sane's big toe being offside for the first, whilst apparently Planky's view was obstructed by a guy 5 yards out of his line of sight for the second.

Two defeats, two refs to blame..........ONE ARSENE WENGER.......THERE'S ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER

[SPARKSY]

Is anyone really surprised at where we are??
The warning signs have been there from day 1 in the defeat to Liverpool. Follow that up with the get out of jail results/performances against Leicester, Southampton, Swansea, PSG, United, Spurs....................................the writing has been on the wall.
Yes we had one great win over Chelsea (we also beat United at the same time last season by the same score) but their manager saw the problems and changed tactics and have not been beaten since.
I don't feel the problem is the players. I think it is a decent squad, just run by a tactically inept manager who cannot motivate or manage his team.
It is embarrassing and very frustrating to still be talking about the same things which we have been raising for the past 5 years or more.

So our league challenge comes to an end before xmas again as not only the results but the performances tell us we are nowhere near winners. Probable scruffy wins over WBA and Palace and all the other sides in the bottom half will keep us in or around the top 4 as per usual.
Groundhog day until the French bloke leaves people

[augie]

As DB10 said, our two full backs yesterday were absolutely fcuking shocking I would however disagree with his analysis of the reason why bellerin was shit, cos I believe citing fitness is just an excuse - frankly in my opinion, neither full back showed any interest in chasing back when the play went in behind them, and for me they showed no more urgency that de bryne did for our goal

I understand why you question sanchez citing his headless chicken running, but I honestly believe that we wouldn't be losing as many of these games if a few more players followed suit. Did either citeeh or everton spring a wonderful tactical surprise against us ? No they didn't, but they had a team who worked hard and ran around like headless chickens whilst stopping our "wonderful football" We keep coming back to the line where talent alone is not enough to bring success - in a lot of games our players will be able to win playing their lazy technical football, but on other days they have to be willing to cast aside their pure football ideals, and compensate with energy and passion and our players simply refuse to do that 98% of the time In the first half yesterday our players pressed the citeeh players every single time they had possession - players like kolarov (who is only a ball playing defender) didn't want the ball and continually hoofed it when it came to him, and I kept pointing it out to my son at the time. In the second half they scored early, we sat off them, and suddenly players like kolarov were carrying the ball out of defense driving the team forward - nothing innovative about it, but we just sat off them and allowed them to do it. I would suggest DB10, that if others had pressed them in the second half, that maybe sanchez wouldn't have looked like a headless chicken because the pressing would have been more choreographed - instead what we had was our lone striker trying to press their whole backline on his own as he ran from sideline to sideline squeezing them whilst his team-mates stood by watching

[DB10GOONER]

As DB10 said, our two full backs yesterday were absolutely fcuking shocking I would however disagree with his analysis of the reason why bellerin was shit, cos I believe citing fitness is just an excuse - frankly in my opinion, neither full back showed any interest in chasing back when the play went in behind them, and for me they showed no more urgency that de bryne did for our goal

I understand why you question sanchez citing his headless chicken running, but I honestly believe that we wouldn't be losing as many of these games if a few more players followed suit. Did either citeeh or everton spring a wonderful tactical surprise against us ? No they didn't, but they had a team who worked hard and ran around like headless chickens whilst stopping our "wonderful football" We keep coming back to the line where talent alone is not enough to bring success - in a lot of games our players will be able to win playing their lazy technical football, but on other days they have to be willing to cast aside their pure football ideals, and compensate with energy and passion and our players simply refuse to do that 98% of the time In the first half yesterday our players pressed the citeeh players every single time they had possession - players like kolarov (who is only a ball playing defender) didn't want the ball and continually hoofed it when it came to him, and I kept pointing it out to my son at the time. In the second half they scored early, we sat off them, and suddenly players like kolarov were carrying the ball out of defense driving the team forward - nothing innovative about it, but we just sat off them and allowed them to do it. I would suggest DB10, that if others had pressed them in the second half, that maybe sanchez wouldn't have looked like a headless chicken because the pressing would have been more choreographed - instead what we had was our lone striker trying to press their whole backline on his own as he ran from sideline to sideline squeezing them whilst his team-mates stood by watching

Sorry, should clarify that I'm not saying Bellerin was poor because of lack of fitness, just that he was obviously not fit. That was meant as a separate comment. His poor passing and loss of possession had nothing to do with fitness.

Also, I do agree that every team needs workers, but not that every player needs to be a worker, as some have suggested. A team needs both. We had Coq and Xhaka on yesterday. For me they need to be the workers that help cover the back 4, that win the ball and quickly recycle it to the flair players like Sanchez and Ozil. Neither did any of that yesterday. They strolled around and were either anonymous (Xhaka) or constantly pissed possession away with terrible touches (Coq). Sanchez and Ozil were constantly waving back at Coq and Xhaka trying to get them to step forward and not leave the midfield open to citeh and they basically ignored them. Wenger too just sat and watched how deep we were sitting and did nothing to change it. As usual.

Sanchez and Ozil were poor and I'm not for a minute denying that or excusing it. But the fact is Ozil is a creator in the Bergkamp mold and Sanchez relies on getting the ball early to feet and having people around him that can pass quickly and accurately. The fact Sanchez is willing to press is a bonus really, because there are not many players that are both workers and creators at the highest level. It's no coincidence that in most games Ozil and Sanchez mostly look for each other when passing as the rest of them are not technically good enough nor have the required vision. Both Sanchez and Ozil now look demotivated, frustrated and pissed off.

[wilko49er]

Works for me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JHNBttv0ceA

[NickF]

But everyone needs to stop pretending this club is going somewhere. For some reason, some fans still believe in the 'Arsene knows' mantra. Although its worse in the media, with former players always propping up Wenger, starting with Henry. For so long now Arsenal fans have been dictated to, and spoken down to. Barely anything gets done about it, you only have to think about the 70th minute walk out that wasnt last season. Other clubs fans dont put with this shit. United fans flew a banner over Old Trafford to get dithering Dave out. Chelsea fans never accepted Benitez - no matter how good results were for them. Liverpool fans forced Woy out. Whilst we put up polite banners. 'thanks for the memories, but its time to say goodbye'. That wont do anymore. The heat needs ot be turned up, because if its not, and the dissent is polite and well mannered, that french fool will pen a new deal, and the joke will go on until 2019 - locking in 15 years of Wenger failures.

If you look at this forum you would be forgiven for thinking most of the fanbase want Wenger gone. Sadly at the games (both home and away) the AKBs are still the vast majority, as witnessed by the "Time for Change" protest last year. I did banners last year and there are actually very, very few people who will get involved.

There are a few type of fans, AKBs and WOBs but there are also people that will support the manager while he is in the job but won't do anything to get rid of him.

[DB10GOONER]

But everyone needs to stop pretending this club is going somewhere. For some reason, some fans still believe in the 'Arsene knows' mantra. Although its worse in the media, with former players always propping up Wenger, starting with Henry. For so long now Arsenal fans have been dictated to, and spoken down to. Barely anything gets done about it, you only have to think about the 70th minute walk out that wasnt last season. Other clubs fans dont put with this shit. United fans flew a banner over Old Trafford to get dithering Dave out. Chelsea fans never accepted Benitez - no matter how good results were for them. Liverpool fans forced Woy out. Whilst we put up polite banners. 'thanks for the memories, but its time to say goodbye'. That wont do anymore. The heat needs ot be turned up, because if its not, and the dissent is polite and well mannered, that french fool will pen a new deal, and the joke will go on until 2019 - locking in 15 years of Wenger failures.

If you look at this forum you would be forgiven for thinking most of the fanbase want Wenger gone. Sadly at the games (both home and away) the AKBs are still the vast majority, as witnessed by the "Time for Change" protest last year. I did banners last year and there are actually very, very few people who will get involved.

There are a few type of fans, AKBs and WOBs but there are also people that will support the manager while he is in the job but won't do anything to get rid of him.

The Wenger-out people and this forum have always been in the minority. A few people on here deluded themselves that the banners would gather momentum and that other less vocal Gooners would see the light and join the protest. Unfortunately it did not work out that way.

And a lot of that is down to the type of fan we now have in the majority. So many of the old school die hard Arsenal fans that were regular Highbury attendees have either been priced out of the new stadium or have been put off attending by the sterile atmosphere, Nazi stewarding and shit home support. They were replaced by casual fans, the type of people that arrive late, fiddle with their iPhone or iPad, and leave early and invest nothing emotionally in supporting the team. They will be as half-assed "passionate" about their national rugby team, and Barca, and an American football team, and a tennis player - just so they are part of the latest in-vogue social trend.

JCL wánkers in other words.

[greengooner]

As DB10 said, our two full backs yesterday were absolutely fcuking shocking I would however disagree with his analysis of the reason why bellerin was shit, cos I believe citing fitness is just an excuse - frankly in my opinion, neither full back showed any interest in chasing back when the play went in behind them, and for me they showed no more urgency that de bryne did for our goal

I understand why you question sanchez citing his headless chicken running, but I honestly believe that we wouldn't be losing as many of these games if a few more players followed suit. Did either citeeh or everton spring a wonderful tactical surprise against us ? No they didn't, but they had a team who worked hard and ran around like headless chickens whilst stopping our "wonderful football" We keep coming back to the line where talent alone is not enough to bring success - in a lot of games our players will be able to win playing their lazy technical football, but on other days they have to be willing to cast aside their pure football ideals, and compensate with energy and passion and our players simply refuse to do that 98% of the time In the first half yesterday our players pressed the citeeh players every single time they had possession - players like kolarov (who is only a ball playing defender) didn't want the ball and continually hoofed it when it came to him, and I kept pointing it out to my son at the time. In the second half they scored early, we sat off them, and suddenly players like kolarov were carrying the ball out of defense driving the team forward - nothing innovative about it, but we just sat off them and allowed them to do it. I would suggest DB10, that if others had pressed them in the second half, that maybe sanchez wouldn't have looked like a headless chicken because the pressing would have been more choreographed - instead what we had was our lone striker trying to press their whole backline on his own as he ran from sideline to sideline squeezing them whilst his team-mates stood by watching

"hard work will beat talent if talent doesn't work hard", sums up our workshy heroes

[NickF]

But everyone needs to stop pretending this club is going somewhere. For some reason, some fans still believe in the 'Arsene knows' mantra. Although its worse in the media, with former players always propping up Wenger, starting with Henry. For so long now Arsenal fans have been dictated to, and spoken down to. Barely anything gets done about it, you only have to think about the 70th minute walk out that wasnt last season. Other clubs fans dont put with this shit. United fans flew a banner over Old Trafford to get dithering Dave out. Chelsea fans never accepted Benitez - no matter how good results were for them. Liverpool fans forced Woy out. Whilst we put up polite banners. 'thanks for the memories, but its time to say goodbye'. That wont do anymore. The heat needs ot be turned up, because if its not, and the dissent is polite and well mannered, that french fool will pen a new deal, and the joke will go on until 2019 - locking in 15 years of Wenger failures.

If you look at this forum you would be forgiven for thinking most of the fanbase want Wenger gone. Sadly at the games (both home and away) the AKBs are still the vast majority, as witnessed by the "Time for Change" protest last year. I did banners last year and there are actually very, very few people who will get involved.

There are a few type of fans, AKBs and WOBs but there are also people that will support the manager while he is in the job but won't do anything to get rid of him.

The Wenger-out people and this forum have always been in the minority. A few people on here deluded themselves that the banners would gather momentum and that other less vocal Gooners would see the light and join the protest. Unfortunately it did not work out that way.

And a lot of that is down to the type of fan we now have in the majority. So many of the old school die hard Arsenal fans that were regular Highbury attendees have either been priced out of the new stadium or have been put off attending by the sterile atmosphere, Nazi stewarding and shit home support. They were replaced by casual fans, the type of people that arrive late, fiddle with their iPhone or iPad, and leave early and invest nothing emotionally in supporting the team. They will be as half-assed "passionate" about their national rugby team, and Barca, and an American football team, and a tennis player - just so they are part of the latest in-vogue social trend.

JCL wánkers in other words.

Even away from home you will be verbally and sometimes physically abused for putting up a Wenger Out banner, you can't just blame everything on our home support.

[DB10GOONER]

But everyone needs to stop pretending this club is going somewhere. For some reason, some fans still believe in the 'Arsene knows' mantra. Although its worse in the media, with former players always propping up Wenger, starting with Henry. For so long now Arsenal fans have been dictated to, and spoken down to. Barely anything gets done about it, you only have to think about the 70th minute walk out that wasnt last season. Other clubs fans dont put with this shit. United fans flew a banner over Old Trafford to get dithering Dave out. Chelsea fans never accepted Benitez - no matter how good results were for them. Liverpool fans forced Woy out. Whilst we put up polite banners. 'thanks for the memories, but its time to say goodbye'. That wont do anymore. The heat needs ot be turned up, because if its not, and the dissent is polite and well mannered, that french fool will pen a new deal, and the joke will go on until 2019 - locking in 15 years of Wenger failures.

If you look at this forum you would be forgiven for thinking most of the fanbase want Wenger gone. Sadly at the games (both home and away) the AKBs are still the vast majority, as witnessed by the "Time for Change" protest last year. I did banners last year and there are actually very, very few people who will get involved.

There are a few type of fans, AKBs and WOBs but there are also people that will support the manager while he is in the job but won't do anything to get rid of him.

The Wenger-out people and this forum have always been in the minority. A few people on here deluded themselves that the banners would gather momentum and that other less vocal Gooners would see the light and join the protest. Unfortunately it did not work out that way.

And a lot of that is down to the type of fan we now have in the majority. So many of the old school die hard Arsenal fans that were regular Highbury attendees have either been priced out of the new stadium or have been put off attending by the sterile atmosphere, Nazi stewarding and shit home support. They were replaced by casual fans, the type of people that arrive late, fiddle with their iPhone or iPad, and leave early and invest nothing emotionally in supporting the team. They will be as half-assed "passionate" about their national rugby team, and Barca, and an American football team, and a tennis player - just so they are part of the latest in-vogue social trend.

JCL wánkers in other words.

Even away from home you will be verbally and sometimes physically abused for putting up a Wenger Out banner, you can't just blame everything on our home support.

Wasn't blaming it solely on our home support but rather a certain large percentage of our support in general. I only used the home support as one of the reasons why so many old school Gooners don't go anymore.

But it has to be said if a protest was to garner any serious comment in the media it would have to be massive and at home. Which it never will.

[Redarmy]

Wally has some front....after that shit display you would think he would keep quiet....but no..

"We haven't started the second halves very well," Walcott said. "In previous games leading up now, we have actually played better in the second half and been on the front foot.

"But yesterday we were on the back foot and obviously Man City dominated the ball. We didn't create any chances in the second half so are disappointed in that sense.

Lazy useless prick

[DB10GOONER]

Wally has some front....after that shit display you would think he would keep quiet....but no..

"We haven't started the second halves very well," Walcott said. "In previous games leading up now, we have actually played better in the second half and been on the front foot.

"But yesterday we were on the back foot and obviously Man City dominated the ball. We didn't create any chances in the second half so are disappointed in that sense.

Lazy useless prick

Why doesn't Walcott just shut the fuck up?

[BFG4]

Did anyone else notice that sky were doing their usual bullshit of making generalised criticism's about yesterday's performance. Gary Neville kept saying that the players were letting Wenger down, and that their attitude is all wrong. No mention of the guy who prepares the team, or is supposed to motivate them. I remember Jeff Stelling saying a few weeks ago how foolish the anti-Wenger fans should feel for wanting him out. If we win, Wenger is a genius, and if we lose then it's all down to the players.

[A11M11]

As long as Wenger stays the media have a story . They like nothing more than reminding every man and his dog that Arsenal haven't won since blah, blah , but fail to bleat on about Liverpool , Spurs etc. Wenger is their easy story , were he to go they might have to work for a living. Don't expect any help any time soon from them.