As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Should of grabbed the ball and ran back to our half for kick off, celebrating an equaliser against Bournemouth is nothing to celebrate when we are already 9 points behind the leaders! Could you see Henry, bergkamp or Sanchez doing that I don't think so!
And there is the problem. We all compare these modern young players with players from 10 to 20 years ago.
It's a different generation, raised in a different footballing and socio-economic culture. These kids (broadly anyone under 30) have grown up with the media-driven cult of quick and often short-lived celebrity status. Instant wealth, a social media "presence", on-pitch selfies, Soccer AM appearances, Twitter accounts, their own branded merchandising - these are the things these kids understand, are influenced by, and aspire to. They are given huge money for very little actual achievement and thus everything that could be pointed to as "not failing" becomes "success". They equate being rich with being successful in football, whereas that older generation of players equated winning trophies as being successful in football.
I honestly think some people are using the goal celebration as a stick to beat Giroud with (and dressing it up as concern for the team) because of nothing more than personal dislike for Giroud which is pretty pathetic really. Have any of you ever scored a goal? That's a buzz in itself. Ever scored a last minute equalizer? After being 3-0 down and totally outplayed? Fucking proper buzz right there.
To put this in context;
We have a manager who has no idea how to manage in modern football. We have an owner that will never sack said manager because he brings in the money. We pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football but now have a board with the ambition of a 2nd division team. We have JCL cúnts infesting our shit corporate bowl. We have fans fighting fellow fans because of the cult of personality that our past his sell by date manager has instilled at our club. But hey fuck all that, the real issue is a player made a mistake and celebrated scoring a goal for all of about 30 seconds.
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Exactly. Also, what grated my shit far more was the keeper and the defence then playing tippy tappy after the restart when they should have launched the ball into the oppo box. At that point they certainly would have known the game was in its dying seconds. Both Sanchez and Giroud were yelling back at them to launch it and they fucking tippy tapped the fucker around the back four....
Actually, I think that might have been the final pain in Sanchez's arse that night which led to the strop at the end.
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Exactly. Also, what grated my shit far more was the keeper and the defence then playing tippy tappy after the restart when they should have launched the ball into the oppo box. At that point they certainly would have known the game was in its dying seconds. Both Sanchez and Giroud were yelling back at them to launch it and they fucking tippy tapped the fucker around the back four....
Actually, I think that might have been the final pain in Sanchez's arse that night which led to the strop at the end.
And I had exactly the same strop as him. You've got a 10 man team on the ropes having scored 3 goals in 20 minutes or so, and it actually looked more like them who were going for the 4th goal - unbelievable. I would say that was the best example of the mentality of some (not all) of our lame lot - embarrassment avoided, job done. No wonder Alexis was fucking fuming - there was still 5 minutes left to go and finish the job
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Should of grabbed the ball and ran back to our half for kick off, celebrating an equaliser against Bournemouth is nothing to celebrate when we are already 9 points behind the leaders! Could you see Henry, bergkamp or Sanchez doing that I don't think so!
And there is the problem. We all compare these modern young players with players from 10 to 20 years ago.
It's a different generation, raised in a different footballing and socio-economic culture. These kids (broadly anyone under 30) have grown up with the media-driven cult of quick and often short-lived celebrity status. Instant wealth, a social media "presence", on-pitch selfies, Soccer AM appearances, Twitter accounts, their own branded merchandising - these are the things these kids understand, are influenced by, and aspire to. They are given huge money for very little actual achievement and thus everything that could be pointed to as "not failing" becomes "success". They equate being rich with being successful in football, whereas that older generation of players equated winning trophies as being successful in football.
I honestly think some people are using the goal celebration as a stick to beat Giroud with (and dressing it up as concern for the team) because of nothing more than personal dislike for Giroud which is pretty pathetic really. Have any of you ever scored a goal? That's a buzz in itself. Ever scored a last minute equalizer? After being 3-0 down and totally outplayed? Fucking proper buzz right there.
To put this in context;
We have a manager who has no idea how to manage in modern football. We have an owner that will never sack said manager because he brings in the money. We pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football but now have a board with the ambition of a 2nd division team. We have JCL cúnts infesting our shit corporate bowl. We have fans fighting fellow fans because of the cult of personality that our past his sell by date manager has instilled at our club. But hey fuck all that, the real issue is a player made a mistake and celebrated scoring a goal for all of about 30 seconds.
If it wasn't for giroud we wouldn't come back to draw, I'm not beating him with a stick at all, it's just the mentality of the team that wenger has instilled into the them! The reaction that Alexis had is how all the team should of reacted, not celebrating the fact that we are now only 8points behind the leaders!
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Should of grabbed the ball and ran back to our half for kick off, celebrating an equaliser against Bournemouth is nothing to celebrate when we are already 9 points behind the leaders! Could you see Henry, bergkamp or Sanchez doing that I don't think so!
And there is the problem. We all compare these modern young players with players from 10 to 20 years ago.
It's a different generation, raised in a different footballing and socio-economic culture. These kids (broadly anyone under 30) have grown up with the media-driven cult of quick and often short-lived celebrity status. Instant wealth, a social media "presence", on-pitch selfies, Soccer AM appearances, Twitter accounts, their own branded merchandising - these are the things these kids understand, are influenced by, and aspire to. They are given huge money for very little actual achievement and thus everything that could be pointed to as "not failing" becomes "success". They equate being rich with being successful in football, whereas that older generation of players equated winning trophies as being successful in football.
I honestly think some people are using the goal celebration as a stick to beat Giroud with (and dressing it up as concern for the team) because of nothing more than personal dislike for Giroud which is pretty pathetic really. Have any of you ever scored a goal? That's a buzz in itself. Ever scored a last minute equalizer? After being 3-0 down and totally outplayed? Fucking proper buzz right there.
To put this in context;
We have a manager who has no idea how to manage in modern football. We have an owner that will never sack said manager because he brings in the money. We pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football but now have a board with the ambition of a 2nd division team. We have JCL cúnts infesting our shit corporate bowl. We have fans fighting fellow fans because of the cult of personality that our past his sell by date manager has instilled at our club. But hey fuck all that, the real issue is a player made a mistake and celebrated scoring a goal for all of about 30 seconds.
If it wasn't for giroud we wouldn't come back to draw, I'm not beating him with a stick at all, it's just the mentality of the team that wenger has instilled into the them! The reaction that Alexis had is how all the team should of reacted, not celebrating the fact that we are now only 8points behind the leaders!
I didn't say you were, mate. I was making a general comment about how this one silly incident has been blown out of all proportions by a lot of our fans and now even the media are shiting on about a "fan backlash" against Giroud.
Of course he should have grabbed the ball and run back. But the fact he didn't think to do that in the heat of the moment is not the worst thing that has ever happened. He made a mistake. Players make mistakes. I would say, for me at least, his celebration has nothing to do with the mentality that Wenger has instilled in the team. The back four playing tippy tappy with only seconds left on the clock when they should go industrial or economical, call it what you will, and launch it long is far more indicative of the Wenger mentality where shallow style over substance is the catch word.
The reaction of celebrating like Giroud did is understandable but it sends out totally the wrong message. It says we're happy / pleased / relieved to draw against mid table Bournemouth.
The Graeme Souness / Roy Keane / Steve Waugh (serial winners) reaction would've been steaming back to our own half, sticking the ball on the centre spot and screaming at Bournemouth to restart thereby sending out a message to everyone that only 3 points is good enough. As Steve Waugh said "Top level sport is mostly in the mindset".
Our reaction is further evidence of the loser mentality that everyone associates with Arsenal these days. Like the wild celebrations at Newcastle after securing 4th place
Having said all of that - serial winners would never have been 3-0 down in the first place . . . . . .
That we should have gone hell for leather for the winner is for real but AFCB did close out the time well !
Giroud was naturally happy we had come back and had a mad 15 seconds but I can agree that players from a previous age would have run
back with the ball and gone again.
We dont have a leader though and only have 1 real winner ,Sanchez who was very pissed off with his loser teamates ,especially Ramsey.
He's off at seasons end thats for sure !
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Should of grabbed the ball and ran back to our half for kick off, celebrating an equaliser against Bournemouth is nothing to celebrate when we are already 9 points behind the leaders! Could you see Henry, bergkamp or Sanchez doing that I don't think so!
And there is the problem. We all compare these modern young players with players from 10 to 20 years ago.
It's a different generation, raised in a different footballing and socio-economic culture. These kids (broadly anyone under 30) have grown up with the media-driven cult of quick and often short-lived celebrity status. Instant wealth, a social media "presence", on-pitch selfies, Soccer AM appearances, Twitter accounts, their own branded merchandising - these are the things these kids understand, are influenced by, and aspire to. They are given huge money for very little actual achievement and thus everything that could be pointed to as "not failing" becomes "success". They equate being rich with being successful in football, whereas that older generation of players equated winning trophies as being successful in football.
I honestly think some people are using the goal celebration as a stick to beat Giroud with (and dressing it up as concern for the team) because of nothing more than personal dislike for Giroud which is pretty pathetic really. Have any of you ever scored a goal? That's a buzz in itself. Ever scored a last minute equalizer? After being 3-0 down and totally outplayed? Fucking proper buzz right there.
To put this in context;
We have a manager who has no idea how to manage in modern football. We have an owner that will never sack said manager because he brings in the money. We pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football but now have a board with the ambition of a 2nd division team. We have JCL cúnts infesting our shit corporate bowl. We have fans fighting fellow fans because of the cult of personality that our past his sell by date manager has instilled at our club. But hey fuck all that, the real issue is a player made a mistake and celebrated scoring a goal for all of about 30 seconds.
Good post mate, you make some fair and interesting points.
I must confess to being someone who has used the Giroud celebration as a stick to beat him with (which is a pity because he played well). And maybe I have dressed it up as concern for the team when I don’t really give a fuck about the team right now.
However … it is because of players like Giroud doing things like his wind up celebrations (the ear cuppings especially) that put me in that state of mind in the first place … and that is why I cant stand him and a number of others.
In truth the celebration incident isn’t such a big deal - on its own. But none of the individual things about the players or even Wenger are that big on their own.
It’s like the opposite of the salami effect. Each single piece doesn’t look much and isn’t much (be it a quote, a mistake, a poor signing, a bad result or bad performance).
But when you piece them all together you have one big fat rotting salami that creates a stench which is destroying the passion people have for the club.
Herd wrote:Come on lets get serious the celebration took all of 30 seconds ,afcb wernt ready to kick off anyway !
Harm done none whatsoever !
Should of grabbed the ball and ran back to our half for kick off, celebrating an equaliser against Bournemouth is nothing to celebrate when we are already 9 points behind the leaders! Could you see Henry, bergkamp or Sanchez doing that I don't think so!
And there is the problem. We all compare these modern young players with players from 10 to 20 years ago.
It's a different generation, raised in a different footballing and socio-economic culture. These kids (broadly anyone under 30) have grown up with the media-driven cult of quick and often short-lived celebrity status. Instant wealth, a social media "presence", on-pitch selfies, Soccer AM appearances, Twitter accounts, their own branded merchandising - these are the things these kids understand, are influenced by, and aspire to. They are given huge money for very little actual achievement and thus everything that could be pointed to as "not failing" becomes "success". They equate being rich with being successful in football, whereas that older generation of players equated winning trophies as being successful in football.
I honestly think some people are using the goal celebration as a stick to beat Giroud with (and dressing it up as concern for the team) because of nothing more than personal dislike for Giroud which is pretty pathetic really. Have any of you ever scored a goal? That's a buzz in itself. Ever scored a last minute equalizer? After being 3-0 down and totally outplayed? Fucking proper buzz right there.
To put this in context;
We have a manager who has no idea how to manage in modern football. We have an owner that will never sack said manager because he brings in the money. We pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football but now have a board with the ambition of a 2nd division team. We have JCL cúnts infesting our shit corporate bowl. We have fans fighting fellow fans because of the cult of personality that our past his sell by date manager has instilled at our club. But hey fuck all that, the real issue is a player made a mistake and celebrated scoring a goal for all of about 30 seconds.
Good post mate, you make some fair and interesting points.
I must confess to being someone who has used the Giroud celebration as a stick to beat him with (which is a pity because he played well). And maybe I have dressed it up as concern for the team when I don’t really give a fuck about the team right now.
However … it is because of players like Giroud doing things like his wind up celebrations (the ear cuppings especially) that put me in that state of mind in the first place … and that is why I cant stand him and a number of others.
In truth the celebration incident isn’t such a big deal - on its own. But none of the individual things about the players or even Wenger are that big on their own.
It’s like the opposite of the salami effect. Each single piece doesn’t look much and isn’t much (be it a quote, a mistake, a poor signing, a bad result or bad performance).
But when you piece them all together you have one big fat rotting salami that creates a stench which is destroying the passion people have for the club.
Very well put. And bang on the nail too tbh.
On the subject of Giroud, yes he is arrogant on the pitch, and certainly arrogant beyond what his limited talent justifies. But he does the best he can do with what he has. He is an "honest" player. He gives what he has to give, which is average PL striker ability, and sometimes goes above his limitations. His arrogance doesn't really upset me tbh. Most footballers are arrogant.
For me the likes of Ramsey (who demonstrated for a while in 2014 that he has it within his game to be a total player) is far worse in that he has let that brief period of brilliance totally go to his head and now thinks he is Messi. He should be delivering top quality stuff every game, he has the technical ability to do it, but cannot because his inflated ego dictates he has to try and be flash every time he touches the ball.
But then this all comes back to the manager. Giroud should not be first choice lone striker in that system. He is not good enough. Ramsey should not be indulged the way he is by Wenger (but not by Coleman and thus the obvious difference in performance he has with Wales and The Arsenal).
BFG4 wrote:How are Arsenal fans on both sides of the Wenger debate, not angry with Giroud, after that nonsense at the end last night. You score an equaliser against piss poor opposition, with enough time to win it, and your more concerned with making it all about you, than winning the game, what an arrogant wanker. Contrast that with Sanchez, who was visibly upset that we hadn't won the game. The laughable thing is, when Sanchez fucks off in the summer, fans will lash out at him, even though he is the only player who gives a 100% effort in every game.
In fairness to Giroud he sounded fucked off afterwards that we'd let in 3 goals and hadn't gone on to win the game. Compare and contrast that with the useless wanker Ramsey stood next to him, seemingly without a care in the world as he continues to steal a living from the club. Getting on 9 years he's been here now and in all that time he's had 1 decent season where he ended up netting the winner in the cup final. Apart from that he's been shite, and if anything going backwards
True.
Also, regarding the Giroud celebration, I think he thought it was later in the game and that he had just clutched a last second equalizer. Remember the celebrations for Welbeck's late winner against Leicester last season? So maybe not the arrogance he's been accused of in this instance.
What was worse for me was at the restart, we then dicked about with the ball at the back. Cech, Gab and Nacho were passing it between them when there was 30 seconds on the clock instead of just launching the fucking thing into the oppo box. They had to know at that stage we were in the last few seconds. Both Sanchez and Giroud were screaming for them to launch it.
Only Gabriel went over to celebrate with Giroud, and even he was telling him to get back for the kick off, were as every other player ran back. Giroud couldn't have been the only player who didn't know how much time was left. On the other hand, Welbeck scored a winner in injury time, and it suited us to waste a few more seconds by celebrating. To me it shows a mentality problem, that a player wouldn't see it as more important to try and win the game, than doing a stupid celebration.
Gabriel was not celebrating as well looked annoyed to me....the mentality is set by Wenger
Um... lads, Gabriel even went so far as to jump into the crowd to celebrate after the Ox had grabbed Giroud and dragged him away...
Still, never let the actual truth get in the way of an agenda!
That supports what I heard about 18 months ago about the two of them. I was told that Wanker and Gazidis have no relationship and that they only coummincate when they absolutely have to. Gazidis is a trained solicitor and an astute businessman so knows what needs to be said and done in public and when business law requires him to communicate with Wanker. Away from that, the two don't speak. My suspicion is that Gazidis has asked questions about Wanker and called him to account. That's got him in trouble with the manager as everybody else there buries their heads in the sand and treats him like the glorious leader he thinks he is. On top of that, Gazidis is a clever bloke and Wanker probably feels threatened by that.
Thats great cos Ive only been saying it for about 5 or six years !
So well before Wenger's last contract extension then?
