DB10GOONER wrote:augie wrote:DB10GOONER wrote:augie wrote:Herd wrote:I'm happy I hope your happy too !
Have to be honest herd and admit that I am not - I really don't give a fcuk how that will make me look to some Gooners, but the reality is that I would prioritise AFC's future ahead of winning one trophy this season.
A lot of
fans keep repeating that they believe that wenker is staying regardless and we should just focus on enjoying these games, but isn't that the equivalent of waving the white flag in the same manner we ALL slate the players for doing - in the big games our players continually surrender and it drives us nuts, but yet
these same fans are saying that we should surrender and accept that wenker is staying, and just enjoy ourselves, and that is double standards imo
If you are referring to my comments then you have totally misread them. How is it "surrendering"? It is just accepting reality. I'm not saying the protests should stop, but I accept that no matter how much hard work that the likes of xisstential, mattyb and Jumpers for Goalposts have done, ultimately it won't drive Wenger out - not this season anyway... so I will try and get some enjoyment from football where I can. If you cannot separate the two things that is your issue.
Personally I have accepted he is staying. And I will try and enjoy the FA Cup final and I will hope we win it because I have accepted the harsh reality that he is not leaving no matter what happens at Wembley. Am I gonna let that ruin my life? Let it turn me against my club that I have supported for 40 years and followed all over England and Europe and spent thousands in cash and hours doing so? Not a chance.
For a small man you sure have a lot of paranoia
It was a generalized comment that covers many fans DB10, but I don't dispute that you are included in that group - what you call accepting the reality, I call surrendering. One of many critcisms of these players is that these players don't man up for the games against the big clubs - could that be viewed as accepting the reality that wenker has taught about being unable to compete with these clubs ? Personally I cannot accept that he is staying and I cannot accept the players, the managers and the board not doing everything they can to succeed, and
this "acceptance" of a second/third rate manager does not work for me
The elephant in the room you are missing is those players can in a fundamental way dictate a change in their performance on the pitch. They can play better. They can show more heart. They can refuse to lie down. They can give more. They can train harder. They can fight harder. Ultimately the manager's influence is very limited during games - all players and managers will tell you that - and once they cross that white line you rely on the players to give their best and to have a spirit and a never say die psyche. Our players don't. And yes a lot of that is down to Wenger, but also a lot of it is down to the players.
But as fans we cannot influence Wenger's tenure because the board and the owner don't give a shit about us or football or winning trophies. We can protest and we can boycott etc, but ultimately it will not affect Wenger's tenure. We have no tangible power over our own destiny beyond personal decisions like deciding not to go anymore, because our owner and board are not football people and they view our club as a business. At other clubs where the owners/board are football people the fans might have some influence, but at Modern Arsenal? We have none unfortunately.
You also seem a bit confused and to be implying that accepting the cold hard fact Wenger is not leaving (the bit in
red) is somehow to be seen as accepting that as the norm. It isn't. You can see and accept a fact without being a supporter of that fact. It's called being pragmatic.
So, and I know that I am taking your words literally here, you have no problem with the old French c.unt sitting their motionless throughout games, except on the times when he flaps his arms and/or berates the poor 4th official ??
I absolutely agree that the majority of a managers work is down during the week of a game, but they still have responsibilities to game manage as well (something le cock is particularly shit at) with changes of tactics/personel and bollocking players where necessary, and to call any managers influence as limited is giving him an unwarranted free pass imo.
We will also agree that the players (wenkers players) need to do more and show more passion and commitment, but they are certainly restricted on what they can do as regards changing the pattern of a game - I have a young lad playing for his league representative under 14 side, and the instructions they receive from their managers are expected to be followed implicitly regardless of whether the instructions are flawed or not, and that to me sums up wenker's style of management. Players game managing and recognizing and altering weaknesses is not tolerated under wenker's regime, so if a tactical system or team selection is screwing us over continually, there is only so much that the players can do to remedy it, and ultimately this must frustrate and wear down the players
The thing I would also question is the suggestion that the protests will not affect wenker's future - what proof do we have on that ? The two year contract offer was publicly known before the protests really went up a level (some might say that the contract offer led to the increased vocal opposition), so the club made the offer before the fans had a chance to influence them. We seem happy to believe some of the stuff in the media from inside the club, so do we believe that there is a drive to change our internal structures and take some power away from le cock ? What do you think may have influenced such a move ? Without doubt I would say that the fans unhappiness at wenker will have played a part in instigating moves for a shake up, and I say that even if wenker ends up staying on
