Manchester City (N) | FA Cup SF | Sun 23 Apr 15:00

[Retro Gunner]

Reverse psychology

Iyour hatred of wenger is that bad that you truly believe that they want him to stay i
I can picture the scene in a spurs supporting household yesterday all cheering for wenger and arsenal to win
Singing 2 more years

Herbie, I certainly did answer my own question about Chelsea since Abramovich's arrival, clearly it was rhetorical. From your response, you agree that they have more than got our number. So, forget the scum, let's hear if you think the Chavs really want him to stay. That's rhetorical too, but tell us anyway.

[Retro Gunner]

Reverse psychology

Scary as fuck really, isn't it.

It's always made me laugh when people talk about facism in pre war Europe and then say "it could never happen here". I now have my perfect response......Wenger's Arsenal and the 60,000 (and more) cultist disciples that swallow all the deceit, spin, contradictions, doublespeak and downright lies. Fuck me, never mind Europe, but Pol Pot, Mao and the Kim's in North Korea pale by comparison to the God that is Arsene.

Anyway, I'm just praying that the scum and the chav's "reverse psychology" works.

[herbert]

Reverse psychology

Iyour hatred of wenger is that bad that you truly believe that they want him to stay i
I can picture the scene in a spurs supporting household yesterday all cheering for wenger and arsenal to win
Singing 2 more years

Herbie, I certainly did answer my own question about Chelsea since Abramovich's arrival, clearly it was rhetorical. From your response, you agree that they have more than got our number. So, forget the scum, let's hear if you think the Chavs really want him to stay. That's rhetorical too, but tell us anyway.

The position there in that might well want him to stay,if they sing it after an Arsenal victory in the final then we know they mean it but if they don't then we can take it that they really don't give a duck but do it just to add to the misery on us when we are going through a bad spell

[herbert]

Reverse psychology

Scary as fuck really, isn't it.

It's always made me laugh when people talk about facism in pre war Europe and then say "it could never happen here". I now have my perfect response......Wenger's Arsenal and the 60,000 (and more) cultist disciples that swallow all the deceit, spin, contradictions, doublespeak and downright lies. Fuck me, never mind Europe, but Pol Pot, Mao and the Kim's in North Korea pale by comparison to the God that is Arsene.

Anyway, I'm just praying that the scum and the chav's "reverse psychology" works.

Tuck me you lot ain't doing to bad on the extremism front mate
Relying on your rival scum supporters to get your manager out
Is as low as any supporter could go
Imho

[OneBardGooner]

#ALEXISSTAY

phpBB [video]

After all that he still finds time to give his shirt to a little Gooner. No not DB

[Retro Gunner]

Reverse psychology

Scary as fuck really, isn't it.

It's always made me laugh when people talk about facism in pre war Europe and then say "it could never happen here". I now have my perfect response......Wenger's Arsenal and the 60,000 (and more) cultist disciples that swallow all the deceit, spin, contradictions, doublespeak and downright lies. Fuck me, never mind Europe, but Pol Pot, Mao and the Kim's in North Korea pale by comparison to the God that is Arsene.

Anyway, I'm just praying that the scum and the chav's "reverse psychology" works.

Tuck me you lot ain't doing to bad on the extremism front mate
Relying on your rival scum supporters to get your manager out
Is as low as any supporter could go
Imho

Well, in the absence of assistance to get him out from fellow Gooners, I'll take help from wherever I can get it. Thing is Herbert, you're missing the point with those that think like me. When I hear them singing that (AND meaning it...and I don't blame them) it fucking hurts.

I've been supporting this Club since earliest memory (it's a family thing) and that's over 50 fucking years. Realistically, it was from the late 60's that I was old enough to have an understanding of what I was looking at. Anyway, I've always dreamed of us being a real powerhouse, seriously dominant domestically and seriously competitive in Europe. The type of team we had in the 30's. That of course, is the dream of the supporters of every club, but for us it has never been an unrealistic desire. We've flirted with fairly short periods of, if not complete dominance, certainly success, but have always frustratingly failed to build on it.

When we started to build the new stadium, as much as I loved Highbury, I thought it might be a genuine step towards seeing my dream realised and the Club promised us as much. After the lies, spin, excuse making and general dishonesty and deceit of the years since the move and the greedy, selfish, egotistical self-interest of the liar-in-chief, I've had a fucking basin full of it and can't take anymore.

I support The Arsenal, it's a concept, an abstract, an emotional tie to an ever-changing institution, where managers, players and board members, come and go. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent, but through it all, my love is for the Club and it's the Club's interest that I put first. We have a situation where, in my opinion, the manager (and the board) are not only holding this great Club back, but are inflicting untold damage upon it.

So....and I don't want to fall out with you and don't take this personally....but if you, or anyone else thinks that my acceptance of any means to rid the Club of this current disease is low, or underhand, I really couldn't give a toss. Somewhere inside, not quite extinguished by this rotten regime yet, lies that old desire to see my team, my Club, as the greatest on earth. It might never happen, but I refuse to accept a management of the Club that are actively preventing it from happening.

You're entitled to your opinion Herbert, but the time will inevitably come,in 6 months, a year, two years, 5 years, maybe more, when the real problem at the Club will dawn on you. Until then, I'll support anything to see him gone and I'll try to respect your view.

[herbert]

I respect all of that retro,I have good Arsenal friends who feel like you do and I know that they care

[Retro Gunner]

I respect all of that retro,I have good Arsenal friends who feel like you do and I know that they care

Thanks Herbert. I know you care too mate. We all do, otherwise we wouldn't be braining ourselves about it. My God, I hate this Gooner versus Gooner crap that we've been driven to.

It's nice to think that one day, when all this bollocks is history, all the posters on here will get together for a few beers. Well, all except DB 10....he's a wrong 'un.















And we won't tell him when and where it's arranged.

[Retro Gunner]

Have to be honest herd and admit that I am not - I really don't give a fcuk how that will make me look to some Gooners, but the reality is that I would prioritise AFC's future ahead of winning one trophy this season.
A lot of fans keep repeating that they believe that wenker is staying regardless and we should just focus on enjoying these games, but isn't that the equivalent of waving the white flag in the same manner we ALL slate the players for doing - in the big games our players continually surrender and it drives us nuts, but yet these same fans are saying that we should surrender and accept that wenker is staying, and just enjoy ourselves, and that is double standards imo

If you are referring to my comments then you have totally misread them. How is it "surrendering"? It is just accepting reality. I'm not saying the protests should stop, but I accept that no matter how much hard work that the likes of xisstential, mattyb and Jumpers for Goalposts have done, ultimately it won't drive Wenger out - not this season anyway... so I will try and get some enjoyment from football where I can. If you cannot separate the two things that is your issue.

Personally I have accepted he is staying. And I will try and enjoy the FA Cup final and I will hope we win it because I have accepted the harsh reality that he is not leaving no matter what happens at Wembley. Am I gonna let that ruin my life? Let it turn me against my club that I have supported for 40 years and followed all over England and Europe and spent thousands in cash and hours doing so? Not a chance.

For a small man you sure have a lot of paranoia

It was a generalized comment that covers many fans DB10, but I don't dispute that you are included in that group - what you call accepting the reality, I call surrendering. One of many critcisms of these players is that these players don't man up for the games against the big clubs - could that be viewed as accepting the reality that wenker has taught about being unable to compete with these clubs ? Personally I cannot accept that he is staying and I cannot accept the players, the managers and the board not doing everything they can to succeed, and this "acceptance" of a second/third rate manager does not work for me

The elephant in the room you are missing is those players can in a fundamental way dictate a change in their performance on the pitch. They can play better. They can show more heart. They can refuse to lie down. They can give more. They can train harder. They can fight harder. Ultimately the manager's influence is very limited during games - all players and managers will tell you that - and once they cross that white line you rely on the players to give their best and to have a spirit and a never say die psyche. Our players don't. And yes a lot of that is down to Wenger, but also a lot of it is down to the players.

But as fans we cannot influence Wenger's tenure because the board and the owner don't give a shit about us or football or winning trophies. We can protest and we can boycott etc, but ultimately it will not affect Wenger's tenure. We have no tangible power over our own destiny beyond personal decisions like deciding not to go anymore, because our owner and board are not football people and they view our club as a business. At other clubs where the owners/board are football people the fans might have some influence, but at Modern Arsenal? We have none unfortunately.

You also seem a bit confused and to be implying that accepting the cold hard fact Wenger is not leaving (the bit in red) is somehow to be seen as accepting that as the norm. It isn't. You can see and accept a fact without being a supporter of that fact. It's called being pragmatic.

So, and I know that I am taking your words literally here, you have no problem with the old French c.unt sitting their motionless throughout games, except on the times when he flaps his arms and/or berates the poor 4th official ?? I absolutely agree that the majority of a managers work is down during the week of a game, but they still have responsibilities to game manage as well (something le cock is particularly shit at) with changes of tactics/personel and bollocking players where necessary, and to call any managers influence as limited is giving him an unwarranted free pass imo.
We will also agree that the players (wenkers players) need to do more and show more passion and commitment, but they are certainly restricted on what they can do as regards changing the pattern of a game - I have a young lad playing for his league representative under 14 side, and the instructions they receive from their managers are expected to be followed implicitly regardless of whether the instructions are flawed or not, and that to me sums up wenker's style of management. Players game managing and recognizing and altering weaknesses is not tolerated under wenker's regime, so if a tactical system or team selection is screwing us over continually, there is only so much that the players can do to remedy it, and ultimately this must frustrate and wear down the players

The thing I would also question is the suggestion that the protests will not affect wenker's future - what proof do we have on that ? The two year contract offer was publicly known before the protests really went up a level (some might say that the contract offer led to the increased vocal opposition), so the club made the offer before the fans had a chance to influence them. We seem happy to believe some of the stuff in the media from inside the club, so do we believe that there is a drive to change our internal structures and take some power away from le cock ? What do you think may have influenced such a move ? Without doubt I would say that the fans unhappiness at wenker will have played a part in instigating moves for a shake up, and I say that even if wenker ends up staying on

It's late and I've been catching up on some of this. These exchanges between Augie and DB10 can be rather compelling and knowing that they're both from the Emerald Isles, their stances in this particular one got me thinking.

I have a very scant knowledge of Irish history, but reading what they've written, I pictured Augie as Michael Collins and DB as Eamon de Valera.

Not sure what you'll make of that, but if I were you Augie, I'd stay away from Cork !!

[DB10GOONER]

If you are referring to my comments then you have totally misread them. How is it "surrendering"? It is just accepting reality. I'm not saying the protests should stop, but I accept that no matter how much hard work that the likes of xisstential, mattyb and Jumpers for Goalposts have done, ultimately it won't drive Wenger out - not this season anyway... so I will try and get some enjoyment from football where I can. If you cannot separate the two things that is your issue.

Personally I have accepted he is staying. And I will try and enjoy the FA Cup final and I will hope we win it because I have accepted the harsh reality that he is not leaving no matter what happens at Wembley. Am I gonna let that ruin my life? Let it turn me against my club that I have supported for 40 years and followed all over England and Europe and spent thousands in cash and hours doing so? Not a chance.

For a small man you sure have a lot of paranoia

It was a generalized comment that covers many fans DB10, but I don't dispute that you are included in that group - what you call accepting the reality, I call surrendering. One of many critcisms of these players is that these players don't man up for the games against the big clubs - could that be viewed as accepting the reality that wenker has taught about being unable to compete with these clubs ? Personally I cannot accept that he is staying and I cannot accept the players, the managers and the board not doing everything they can to succeed, and this "acceptance" of a second/third rate manager does not work for me

The elephant in the room you are missing is those players can in a fundamental way dictate a change in their performance on the pitch. They can play better. They can show more heart. They can refuse to lie down. They can give more. They can train harder. They can fight harder. Ultimately the manager's influence is very limited during games - all players and managers will tell you that - and once they cross that white line you rely on the players to give their best and to have a spirit and a never say die psyche. Our players don't. And yes a lot of that is down to Wenger, but also a lot of it is down to the players.

But as fans we cannot influence Wenger's tenure because the board and the owner don't give a shit about us or football or winning trophies. We can protest and we can boycott etc, but ultimately it will not affect Wenger's tenure. We have no tangible power over our own destiny beyond personal decisions like deciding not to go anymore, because our owner and board are not football people and they view our club as a business. At other clubs where the owners/board are football people the fans might have some influence, but at Modern Arsenal? We have none unfortunately.

You also seem a bit confused and to be implying that accepting the cold hard fact Wenger is not leaving (the bit in red) is somehow to be seen as accepting that as the norm. It isn't. You can see and accept a fact without being a supporter of that fact. It's called being pragmatic.

So, and I know that I am taking your words literally here, you have no problem with the old French c.unt sitting their motionless throughout games, except on the times when he flaps his arms and/or berates the poor 4th official ?? I absolutely agree that the majority of a managers work is down during the week of a game, but they still have responsibilities to game manage as well (something le cock is particularly shit at) with changes of tactics/personel and bollocking players where necessary, and to call any managers influence as limited is giving him an unwarranted free pass imo.
We will also agree that the players (wenkers players) need to do more and show more passion and commitment, but they are certainly restricted on what they can do as regards changing the pattern of a game - I have a young lad playing for his league representative under 14 side, and the instructions they receive from their managers are expected to be followed implicitly regardless of whether the instructions are flawed or not, and that to me sums up wenker's style of management. Players game managing and recognizing and altering weaknesses is not tolerated under wenker's regime, so if a tactical system or team selection is screwing us over continually, there is only so much that the players can do to remedy it, and ultimately this must frustrate and wear down the players

The thing I would also question is the suggestion that the protests will not affect wenker's future - what proof do we have on that ? The two year contract offer was publicly known before the protests really went up a level (some might say that the contract offer led to the increased vocal opposition), so the club made the offer before the fans had a chance to influence them. We seem happy to believe some of the stuff in the media from inside the club, so do we believe that there is a drive to change our internal structures and take some power away from le cock ? What do you think may have influenced such a move ? Without doubt I would say that the fans unhappiness at wenker will have played a part in instigating moves for a shake up, and I say that even if wenker ends up staying on

It's late and I've been catching up on some of this. These exchanges between Augie and DB10 can be rather compelling and knowing that they're both from the Emerald Isles, their stances in this particular one got me thinking.

I have a very scant knowledge of Irish history, but reading what they've written, I pictured Augie as Michael Collins and DB as Eamon de Valera.

Not sure what you'll make of that, but if I were you Augie, I'd stay away from Cork !!

Quality.

As de Valera you've painted me as a conniving scheming fucker that uses augie's naivety to set him up for the chop and - oh, hang on...

[Retro Gunner]

It's late and I've been catching up on some of this. These exchanges between Augie and DB10 can be rather compelling and knowing that they're both from the Emerald Isles, their stances in this particular one got me thinking.

I have a very scant knowledge of Irish history, but reading what they've written, I pictured Augie as Michael Collins and DB as Eamon de Valera.

Not sure what you'll make of that, but if I were you Augie, I'd stay away from Cork !!

Quality.

As de Valera you've painted me as a conniving scheming fucker that uses augie's naivety to set him up for the chop and - oh, hang on...

Well DB, if the cap fits...... You weren't born mid-Atlantic, were you ?

You know, despite a million books sitting waiting to be read and a million more I want to get (fuck it, unless I live to be 800, I'll never get them all read), I need to read a bit about the Irish Civil War. Very interesting, but seemingly very nasty. From the little I know, it appears that de Valera divides opinion, with some thinking he was the politician that was needed and others thinking he was a conniving sell-out.

Divisive ? Conniving ? Scheming ? Sell-out ?.....His middle name wasn't Arsene, was it ?

[DB10GOONER]

Quality.

As de Valera you've painted me as a conniving scheming fucker that uses augie's naivety to set him up for the chop and - oh, hang on...

Well DB, if the cap fits...... You weren't born mid-Atlantic, were you ?

You know, despite a million books sitting waiting to be read and a million more I want to get (fuck it, unless I live to be 800, I'll never get them all read), I need to read a bit about the Irish Civil War. Very interesting, but seemingly very nasty. From the little I know, it appears that de Valera divides opinion, with some thinking he was the politician that was needed and others thinking he was a conniving sell-out.

Divisive ? Conniving ? Scheming ? Sell-out ?.....His middle name wasn't Arsene, was it ?

Arsene de Valera.

Tbh "Dev" As Dubliners know him, or "Satan's Testicles" as culchies from Cork know him was both the politician that was needed and a conniving sell-out. He realised early on that we could never negotiate a full 32 county Ireland and also that we could never win a long term war against the British. He was a pragmatist and cunning enough to let Collins take the blame for "giving up the 6 counties".

Civil war by its very nature is a nasty business but by all accounts the Irish civil war was particularly bloodthirsty and brutal. If you are interested in reading about it then a good starting point is Tim Pat Coogan's book "The Irish Civil War" as it is a reasonably non-biased history of the key events complimented by some superb photos;

https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Civil-War- ... 1841880205

[Retro Gunner]

Well DB, if the cap fits...... You weren't born mid-Atlantic, were you ?

You know, despite a million books sitting waiting to be read and a million more I want to get (fuck it, unless I live to be 800, I'll never get them all read), I need to read a bit about the Irish Civil War. Very interesting, but seemingly very nasty. From the little I know, it appears that de Valera divides opinion, with some thinking he was the politician that was needed and others thinking he was a conniving sell-out.

Divisive ? Conniving ? Scheming ? Sell-out ?.....His middle name wasn't Arsene, was it ?

Arsene de Valera.

Tbh "Dev" As Dubliners know him, or "Satan's Testicles" as culchies from Cork know him was both the politician that was needed and a conniving sell-out. He realised early on that we could never negotiate a full 32 county Ireland and also that we could never win a long term war against the British. He was a pragmatist and cunning enough to let Collins take the blame for "giving up the 6 counties".

Civil war by its very nature is a nasty business but by all accounts the Irish civil war was particularly bloodthirsty and brutal. If you are interested in reading about it then a good starting point is Tim Pat Coogan's book "The Irish Civil War" as it is a reasonably non-biased history of the key events complimented by some superb photos;

https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Civil-War- ... 1841880205

Thanks mate, that's kind, I shall get it. Drives the missus mad, every time a new book (or books) appear, I get "oh no, not more books !". She now tells people not to buy them for me at birthdays and Christmas ! I also refuse to get rid of them when they are read, which further irritates her. I won't even get rid of paperbacks (even mass market stuff) if I can avoid it and to me, books are sacrosanct. No way should they ever be gotten rid of. She did box a load up a few weeks ago and stuck 'em in the loft, then told me afterwards. I think I'll go and sit up there .

[DB10GOONER]

Well DB, if the cap fits...... You weren't born mid-Atlantic, were you ?

You know, despite a million books sitting waiting to be read and a million more I want to get (fuck it, unless I live to be 800, I'll never get them all read), I need to read a bit about the Irish Civil War. Very interesting, but seemingly very nasty. From the little I know, it appears that de Valera divides opinion, with some thinking he was the politician that was needed and others thinking he was a conniving sell-out.

Divisive ? Conniving ? Scheming ? Sell-out ?.....His middle name wasn't Arsene, was it ?

Arsene de Valera.

Tbh "Dev" As Dubliners know him, or "Satan's Testicles" as culchies from Cork know him was both the politician that was needed and a conniving sell-out. He realised early on that we could never negotiate a full 32 county Ireland and also that we could never win a long term war against the British. He was a pragmatist and cunning enough to let Collins take the blame for "giving up the 6 counties".

Civil war by its very nature is a nasty business but by all accounts the Irish civil war was particularly bloodthirsty and brutal. If you are interested in reading about it then a good starting point is Tim Pat Coogan's book "The Irish Civil War" as it is a reasonably non-biased history of the key events complimented by some superb photos;

https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Civil-War- ... 1841880205

Thanks mate, that's kind, I shall get it. Drives the missus mad, every time a new book (or books) appear, I get "oh no, not more books !". She now tells people not to buy them for me at birthdays and Christmas ! I also refuse to get rid of them when they are read, which further irritates her. I won't even get rid of paperbacks (even mass market stuff) if I can avoid it and to me, books are sacrosanct. No way should they ever be gotten rid of. She did box a load up a few weeks ago and stuck 'em in the loft, then told me afterwards. I think I'll go and sit up there .

I too view books as sacred and never get rid of them. Luckily enough my missus has the same outlook and both our kids are avid readers too. We have several bookshelves full of books in a couple of rooms and several boxes full of books up in the attic as well. I'm surprised Amazon haven't offered some kind of large volume purchase discount or shares or something at this stage!

[Retro Gunner]

Well DB, if the cap fits...... You weren't born mid-Atlantic, were you ?

You know, despite a million books sitting waiting to be read and a million more I want to get (fuck it, unless I live to be 800, I'll never get them all read), I need to read a bit about the Irish Civil War. Very interesting, but seemingly very nasty. From the little I know, it appears that de Valera divides opinion, with some thinking he was the politician that was needed and others thinking he was a conniving sell-out.

Divisive ? Conniving ? Scheming ? Sell-out ?.....His middle name wasn't Arsene, was it ?

Arsene de Valera.

Tbh "Dev" As Dubliners know him, or "Satan's Testicles" as culchies from Cork know him was both the politician that was needed and a conniving sell-out. He realised early on that we could never negotiate a full 32 county Ireland and also that we could never win a long term war against the British. He was a pragmatist and cunning enough to let Collins take the blame for "giving up the 6 counties".

Civil war by its very nature is a nasty business but by all accounts the Irish civil war was particularly bloodthirsty and brutal. If you are interested in reading about it then a good starting point is Tim Pat Coogan's book "The Irish Civil War" as it is a reasonably non-biased history of the key events complimented by some superb photos;

https://www.amazon.com/Irish-Civil-War- ... 1841880205

Thanks mate, that's kind, I shall get it. Drives the missus mad, every time a new book (or books) appear, I get "oh no, not more books !". She now tells people not to buy them for me at birthdays and Christmas ! I also refuse to get rid of them when they are read, which further irritates her. I won't even get rid of paperbacks (even mass market stuff) if I can avoid it and to me, books are sacrosanct. No way should they ever be gotten rid of. She did box a load up a few weeks ago and stuck 'em in the loft, then told me afterwards. I think I'll go and sit up there .

I too view books as sacred and never get rid of them. Luckily enough my missus has the same outlook and both our kids are avid readers too. We have several bookshelves full of books in a couple of rooms and several boxes full of books up in the attic as well. I'm surprised Amazon haven't offered some kind of large volume purchase discount or shares or something at this stage!

Wow, you're lucky, I'm still teaching my wife to read !
Fuck, I hope she never looks at this forum !

Actually, she reads more than I do.....not the vast intellectual tomes that I indulge in of course, I mean she's a woman after all, but she makes the effort, so that's ok.


Eldest daughter is in the second year of her English degree at university and has always been a voracious reader. The younger one less so, but she reads quite a bit now and in terms of analysis and detailed understanding, is quite a gifted English scholar. She also writes creatively way beyond her years.

As for me.....well, I've almost mastered not moving my lips when I read !!