Hillsborough charges

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Nos89
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Nos89 »

Watched an interview between Clive Anderson and Brian Clough, and Clough who was there and saw the events unfold made claims in his book that laid the blame on the supporters. Anderson tried to get him to apologise for that assertion and even put it to Clough that the fault was with the authorities, Clough paid tribute and respects to those whom died that day, but he refused to alter his opinion as he knew what he saw and heard on the pitch, on that day.
Along with all the rest of the evidence why does it get overlooked that crushes had happened at that ground at the same end twice in previous semifinals?

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Rugby Gooner
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Rugby Gooner »

Nos89 wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:56 am
Watched an interview between Clive Anderson and Brian Clough, and Clough who was there and saw the events unfold made claims in his book that laid the blame on the supporters. Anderson tried to get him to apologise for that assertion and even put it to Clough that the fault was with the authorities, Clough paid tribute and respects to those whom died that day, but he refused to alter his opinion as he knew what he saw and heard on the pitch, on that day.
Along with all the rest of the evidence why does it get overlooked that crushes had happened at that ground at the same end twice in previous semifinals?
Because it doesn't fit with the sanitised,pc,version of events,that's why. :banghead:
It is also why Heysel is never mentioned. :banghead:

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Herd
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Herd »

Because it doesn't fit with the sanitised,pc,version of events,that's why. :banghead:
It is also why Heysel is never mentioned. :banghead:
You can bet your lifesavers everything will get dragged up during any trial !

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Nos89
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Nos89 »

Rugby Gooner wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:32 pm
Nos89 wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:56 am
Watched an interview between Clive Anderson and Brian Clough, and Clough who was there and saw the events unfold made claims in his book that laid the blame on the supporters. Anderson tried to get him to apologise for that assertion and even put it to Clough that the fault was with the authorities, Clough paid tribute and respects to those whom died that day, but he refused to alter his opinion as he knew what he saw and heard on the pitch, on that day.
Along with all the rest of the evidence why does it get overlooked that crushes had happened at that ground at the same end twice in previous semifinals?
Because it doesn't fit with the sanitised,pc,version of events,that's why. :banghead:
It is also why Heysel is never mentioned. :banghead:

I agree with that.
Don't know if you read about the Liverpool supporter who had claimed to be raising money for the Hillsborough fund but was pocketing the money. He's now doing time at her majesty's pleasure. It was a big news item in the Liverpool echo that got quickly swept under the carpet.

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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Almunia is a clown »

As others have already mentioned Hillsborough was a disaster waiting to happen, Sheff Wednesday who had a decrepit dangerous stadium, which was only fit for lower league football, plus the FA, Police & local council stadium licencing department for allowing big games to be held there.

These are the main guilty parties that could have prevented the deaths by refusing to allow this dump of a stadium to be used for large crowds. :cussing:

Anyone going way matches in the '70's & '80's will remember all of the above. :banghead:

I seem to remember Dennis Hillwood refusing to erect fences at Highbury & the FA removing Arsenal stadium from consideration for FA Cup semi finals. One thing I give the gin soaked old git credit for at least!

It was the Scousers, it could have been any other away team bringing tens of thousands of fans to Hillsborough.

Whilst Liverpool fans are guilty for Hysel, not Millwall fans as claimed by their chairman, their fans are still being blamed in the main for the Hillsborough. We know where the accusations come from, from those trying to pass their guilt onto others, the supporters at the match. :banghead: :banghead:

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flash gunner
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by flash gunner »

Give them what they want and lets end this sorry saga

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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by DB10GOONER »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:18 am
As others have already mentioned Hillsborough was a disaster waiting to happen, Sheff Wednesday who had a decrepit dangerous stadium, which was only fit for lower league football, plus the FA, Police & local council stadium licencing department for allowing big games to be held there.

These are the main guilty parties that could have prevented the deaths by refusing to allow this dump of a stadium to be used for large crowds. :cussing:

Anyone going way matches in the '70's & '80's will remember all of the above. :banghead:

I seem to remember Dennis Hillwood refusing to erect fences at Highbury & the FA removing Arsenal stadium from consideration for FA Cup semi finals. One thing I give the gin soaked old git credit for at least!

It was the Scousers, it could have been any other away team bringing tens of thousands of fans to Hillsborough.

Whilst Liverpool fans are guilty for Hysel, not Millwall fans as claimed by their chairman, their fans are still being blamed in the main for the Hillsborough. We know where the accusations come from, from those trying to pass their guilt onto others, the supporters at the match. :banghead: :banghead:

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Sorry, but that bit in red is bollocks. :roll: No one is saying that. What people are saying is that some of their fans were partly responsible for the tragedy.

"It was the Scousers, it could have been any other away team bringing tens of thousands of fans to Hillsborough."

And yet, it wasn't any other team. Why? Because it comes down to numbers. Every team had a few fans that would try and bunk in for free (and most still do). The problem with Liverpool and Hillsborough was the numbers - they had, and still do have, a large number of fans that try to bunk in for free. Combine that number with the poor policing, the shit stadium etc and you get a disaster.

I don't get why some people seem to equate saying "some Liverpool fans were partly responsible because they turned up late and/or without tickets" with saying "all Liverpool fans were responsible". That is NOT what anyone is saying. :roll:

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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by NickF »

Does anyone think those on trial we get a fair hearing or has the verdict already been decided?

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Herd
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Herd »

People who intend to bunk in tend to be sober and do it earlier ,I know I've done it plenty of times over land and sea not to mention rock concerts ,clubs and any other liggable event !
I went to EVERY Cup final between 1972 and 1981 and apart from when Arsenal played I never had a ticket they key is doing it early .
Couple of quid to the man on the door and you were in ,simples ,did the same for England matches too and who can forget the thousands who got in at Heysel the crumbling wreck of a stadium when Arsenal played there in 1980
I simply don't buy the thousands of swaying scallies waiting like vultures for the gates to be forced open BUT it is possible .
But I don't know as I wasn't there and very few who were are credible because they lied,no one here knows and I dont accept the bal;ance of probabilities based on personal biase bollocks either
I haven't said that those who jibbed in aren't partially responsible because they certainly are but the hysterical SUN led with the they were pissed up ticket-less scouse *word censored* who then robbed the bodies , you know them scousers scum of the earth ,is typical of the words of the time and fuck Cloughy he was probably pissed himself !

The problem with denying and perverting justice by conspiracy for 25 plus years is when u do get found to have told porkies, the other side gets exonerated completely and this is what has and will happen here .

The other thing that has stuck in my craw so god knows what it has done to the families is that loads of Police offers received gigantic payouts for Hillsborough when many of them stood around like c unts and in some cases made a bad scene much worse !

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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by DB10GOONER »

Herd wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:36 am
People who intend to bunk in tend to be sober and do it earlier ,I know I've done it plenty of times over land and sea not to mention rock concerts ,clubs and any other liggable event !
I went to EVERY Cup final between 1972 and 1981 and apart from when Arsenal played I never had a ticket they key is doing it early .
Couple of quid to the man on the door and you were in ,simples ,did the same for England matches too and who can forget the thousands who got in at Heysel the crumbling wreck of a stadium when Arsenal played there in 1980
I simply don't buy the thousands of swaying scallies waiting like vultures for the gates to be forced open BUT it is possible .
But I don't know as I wasn't there and very few who were are credible because they lied,no one here knows and I dont accept the bal;ance of probabilities based on personal biase bollocks either
I haven't said that those who jibbed in aren't partially responsible because they certainly are but the hysterical SUN led with the they were pissed up ticket-less scouse *word censored* who then robbed the bodies , you know them scousers scum of the earth ,is typical of the words of the time and fuck Cloughy he was probably pissed himself !

The problem with denying and perverting justice by conspiracy for 25 plus years is when u do get found to have told porkies, the other side gets exonerated completely and this is what has and will happen here .
Again it's down to numbers. All clubs have a handful of cheap cúnts like you :lol: :wink: that bunk in and would do it quietly early on. But not always - my late mate Joe and a few friends had a bunk-in sorted with a turnstile operator in the North Bank back in 2002-2005 and they would do it pissed and right before kick off - for obvious reasons regarding where to sit... :wink:

But a lot of Liverpool fans bunk in by swarming the gates in numbers. They are notoriously well known for that "technique". A work colleague (Scouse season ticket holder) saw them do it first hand in Instanbul and Athens, at Wembley and at other games over the last 30+ years. He said he was ashamed to be a Liverpool fan after Athens in particular where women and children were assaulted and robbed by fellow Liverpool fans - and it wasn't that old bollocks of "only one or two" either, it was a lot of them doing it. :x

Also, does anyone but the most stupid of people believe a word written in The Sun? It may as well be written in shit on a toilet wall ffs. :roll: I don't know if any Scouse fan robbed the dead that day, but if The Sun reported it, I'd have my doubts straight away. :roll:

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Herd
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Herd »

Steaming is a known trick but easily defeated IF you filter fans so there are pre barrier ticket checks they don't get to the turnstile.
The worse thing about that is that it was done the previous year at Hillsborough .
The Morass that day makes it hard to define !

People used to beleive the SUN

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Nos89
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Nos89 »

The main point of all this is that there was a huge operational cover up of events that occurred that day.
It is irrelevant who and what caused the deaths, that decision can never be blamed on one person, or one authoritative body.
In my opinion the 96 who died that day will never receive justice, nor will their families.

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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by DB10GOONER »

Nos89 wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:18 am
The main point of all this is that there was a huge operational cover up of events that occurred that day.
It is irrelevant who and what caused the deaths, that decision can never be blamed on one person, or one authoritative body.
In my opinion the 96 who died that day will never receive justice, nor will their families.
The cover-up was, and is, shameful. There is no denying that. And anyone involved in it should be punished.

But what we are talking about here is this prolonged campaign for "justice" (bordering on vengeance tbh) that Liverpool fans have pursued rabidly against the Police, the FA, and the Sun (not just the families of the 96 who have a legitimate right, but Liverpool fans in general) whilst populating the moral high-ground, without them once ever taking responsibility for the actions of some of their own fans that day. Add to this their airbrushing out of history their murder of 39 Italians at Heysel and it's easy to see why the Liverpool fans are pissing people off and are often accused of rank hypocrisy.

I agree the ONLY real victims in this whole sorry saga (the 96 innocent dead and their families) will never get "justice". How can you be compensated judicially when you are dead or for the tragic and unnecessary death of a loved one?

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Herd
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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by Herd »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:21 am
Nos89 wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:18 am
The main point of all this is that there was a huge operational cover up of events that occurred that day.
It is irrelevant who and what caused the deaths, that decision can never be blamed on one person, or one authoritative body.
In my opinion the 96 who died that day will never receive justice, nor will their families.
The cover-up was, and is, shameful. There is no denying that. And anyone involved in it should be punished.

But what we are talking about here is this prolonged campaign for "justice" (bordering on vengeance tbh) that Liverpool fans have pursued rabidly against the Police, the FA, and the Sun (not just the families of the 96 who have a legitimate right, but Liverpool fans in general) whilst populating the moral high-ground, without them once ever taking responsibility for the actions of some of their own fans that day. Add to this their airbrushing out of history their murder of 39 Italians at Heysel and it's easy to see why the Liverpool fans are pissing people off and are often accused of rank hypocrisy.

I agree the ONLY real victims in this whole sorry saga (the 96 innocent dead and their families) will never get "justice". How can you be compensated judicially when you are dead or for the tragic and unnecessary death of a loved one?
If the people of Liverpool had not got behind the campaign for Justice of the 96 nothing would have been done about their plight !
The Judiciary have a long History in perverting the course of Justice or weighing it down with time and red tape until it sinks without trace like the Marchioness ,another disaster for which the owners of the Bowbelle got off Scott free barring a few small claims !
No one here is giving all scousers a pass for Hillsborough or Heysel ,u have serious issues that u cant let go of on this one .
Anyone who participates in bashing murdoch n his minions is OK by me they are scum .

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Re: Hillsborough charges

Post by DB10GOONER »

Herd wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:55 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:21 am
Nos89 wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:18 am
The main point of all this is that there was a huge operational cover up of events that occurred that day.
It is irrelevant who and what caused the deaths, that decision can never be blamed on one person, or one authoritative body.
In my opinion the 96 who died that day will never receive justice, nor will their families.
The cover-up was, and is, shameful. There is no denying that. And anyone involved in it should be punished.

But what we are talking about here is this prolonged campaign for "justice" (bordering on vengeance tbh) that Liverpool fans have pursued rabidly against the Police, the FA, and the Sun (not just the families of the 96 who have a legitimate right, but Liverpool fans in general) whilst populating the moral high-ground, without them once ever taking responsibility for the actions of some of their own fans that day. Add to this their airbrushing out of history their murder of 39 Italians at Heysel and it's easy to see why the Liverpool fans are pissing people off and are often accused of rank hypocrisy.

I agree the ONLY real victims in this whole sorry saga (the 96 innocent dead and their families) will never get "justice". How can you be compensated judicially when you are dead or for the tragic and unnecessary death of a loved one?
If the people of Liverpool had not got behind the campaign for Justice of the 96 nothing would have been done about their plight !
The Judiciary have a long History in perverting the course of Justice or weighing it down with time and red tape until it sinks without trace like the Marchioness ,another disaster for which the owners of the Bowbelle got off Scott free barring a few small claims !
No one here is giving all scousers a pass for Hillsborough or Heysel ,u have serious issues that u cant let go of on this one .
Anyone who participates in bashing murdoch n his minions is OK by me they are scum
.
Haha you don't do irony, mate, do you! :lol:

I have no serious issues, I just don't like whitewashes and I am pretty much sick of this holier than thou victim attitude that a large number of Liverpool fans have, and yet those same fans don't seem to think they should be as vocal about their murder of 39 Italian fans at Heysel, or as vocal about the element within their ranks that still charge turnstiles and endanger their fellow supporters. It's the hypocricy I don't like. If it was Leeds, Mancs, QPR I'd feel the same. It just so happens it's Liverpool fans.

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