Our diabolical midfield

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
User avatar
GoonerMuzz
Posts: 5748
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:53 pm
Location: Defending is optional

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by GoonerMuzz »

worthing_gooner wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:26 pm
GTG wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:01 pm
xisstential wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:31 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:56 pm
worthing_gooner wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:41 pm
Talking of midfield, a little bit disappointed to see all the criticism of Ozil in the media and among some of our fans, yet again :roll: It's almost like we're trying to punish ourselves by forcing out our next best player after Sanchez.

"played like a deserter, hiding in plain sight"... in actuality he created four chances, two of which were absolutely gilt edged. But for 50 pence head Welbeck and a useless blazing strike from Bellerin he would've had at least one assist.

Frankly if he creates four goalscoring opportunities in every game, I couldn't give a flying fuck if he gets a deck chair out in the centre circle. The problem isn't Ozil, and if people don't wake up to that indisputable fact then he'll be off as well. Then not only will we be shite at the back still, we'll also be even more tepid going forward as well.
Wasting your time, mate. But you are 100% right. 8) Never mind that Ozil can open up a defence with a slide rule pass, never mind that he creates chances every game, never mind that he missed equalling Henry's assist record by 1 (even though he was still creating chances that our shit strikers didn't convert into assists) never mind all that - there are punters on here that will tell you he "doesn't run around enough". :lol: :lol:

We need Robbie Savage! :barscarf: :lol:

Now that I have gotten that facetiousness out of me... :D :wink: I think the problem with Ozil is that Wenger will never get the best from him or capitalise on what he proivides because Wenger has not got a clue how to build a team around a technically superb player with true vision. Ozil was the European assist record holder whilst at Madrid. I wonder why? The Madrid players were pissed off when the club sold him. You put a top top striker in front of Ozil, play him as a 10, add two top DM's and you win the PL. End of. 8)

Okay, also add a few decent defenders! :lol: :wink:

And a manager that isn't shit. :barscarf:
Whenever I see David Silva shining for City I think what Ozil could be...and more. Ozil actually said how Mourinho used to give him absolute hell if he wasn't happy with him. Ozil is in a comfort zone now playing under the wrong manager and surrounded by the wrong players. Can you imagine him with a Wright, Henry or RvP in front of him?? Silva had Jesus & Aguero in front of him last season and the likes of Toure & de Bruyne alongside him. Ozil had Giroud & Walpott ahead of him & Ramsey & Coquelin alongside him.

Da Silva would also flounder at Arsenal

Thing is im not so sure David Silva would flounder at Arsenal certainly not now we've got the movement that Lacazette can bring. When you watch Silva compared to Ozil the key thing is the desire to get on the ball. He goes looking for it all over the park and puts himself in pockets where he can do damage when he gets it. Ozil can do so much more but just isn't interested.

I certainly don't want to see him running around trying to be a Rooney type but what I do want to see is maximum effort in his own style of play, that is get on the ball as often as possible, move intelligently and produce telling passes or get himself into the box. Any player that loses possession should also try to win it back to a point. He just doesn't bother and doesn't provide those things on a consistent enough basis.

Stoke wasn't anywhere close to being his worst game for us though. As said by others hes on easy street
That comment in bold is the nail on the head mate - sorry to single you out because this is a common view, but that's exactly the point - he's created more chances than anyone else in the PL in the opening two games, created four chances at the weekend, but for shite finishing he'd have got two assists. If people could put the ball in the net he'd be making critical contributions week in week out. I just don't buy this "not interested" argument. He could run around like Coquelin doing jack shit or bustle like Sanchez and give the ball away a hundred times, but people like Gerrard and Keown would be praising his willingness to run, even though he's contributing nothing.
The way i look at the disinterested argument is that, after creating chance after chance after chance and most of the muppets ballsing them up i'd be disinterested too, lets be honest if the idiots were banging them in week after week surely he'd be bursting his balls to make more but creating all these chances only to see them be missed, balloned or dribbled into the keepers hands time after time must be soul destroying... even on £150,000 a week :rubchin:

markyp
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:54 pm
Location: location location

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by markyp »

kondogbia is available again,id be breaking my back to sign him ,sadly we wont be :shock:

General
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:34 pm
Location: London

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by General »

GoonerMuzz wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:57 pm
with a rock solid CDM and good box to box who can tackle,
This is prerequisite to winning this league. Chelsea is built on this blueprint and this is why they can park a player of Fabregas's calibre on the bench and still win titles. Mourinho knows the score and has just gone and spent good money on Matic. Everyone has a solid dynamic midfielder who can tackle apart from us. The fraud has had an eternity to resolve this fundamental problem and has seen us consistently pay a heavy price for it yet he keeps persisting with these clown and his outdated model. It's mystifying.

arseofacrow
Posts: 6173
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: Cologne

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by arseofacrow »

The poor thing is that in all of these years, there's been a real lack of development in Ozil's game. There's no comparison between the level Toni Kroos has gone to and the way Ozil has stood still ( :lol: )

oaodan
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:00 am

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by oaodan »

I am very surprised with some of the lengths people go to exscuse Ozil.I hate him in an Arsenal jersey.Someone compared him to Bergkamp, Bergkamp was a genius not least because he had a nasty streak.Didnt Fergie say he hated him because he was a dirty fecker.Ozil is completely harmless.Another said he could walk into Real,BarcaPSG teams. I think the only reason he is still with us is noone really wants him.My own theory on his assists? How many in the big games? And how many because he is shit in front of goal himself.His goals tally for a lazy fucker who only offers anything going forward is rubbish.He has divided supporters everywhere always.Most top managers wouldn't waste time with him.

User avatar
sk-gtfo
Posts: 1922
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:59 pm
Location: Staying away

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by sk-gtfo »

The problem with Ozil (I think) is that he only really works in a team full of good players, unlike Sanchez who can still work in a team full of average players (where he is now :roll:). So either we buy lots of good players - not happening because Wenger and Kroenke are a pair of Tuesday's or we might as well sell him and just replace him with another average player, which is likely what will happen.

:banghead:

User avatar
Nos89
Posts: 4568
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:44 am

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by Nos89 »

Ozil ran that second half everything positive we did through him. Also, where was he when Jese scored? In our penalty box, tracking back. It was Monreals job to close him down bit he was way too slow.
Had welbeck been able to react quickly then Ozil would have 2 assists and motm. He look exasperated at the end of the match, he certainly didn't appear to be like a player who didn't give a shit.
As for Jack. Good. The city played was way out of line. A fit Wilshere with a point to prove would make my starting line up. Wenger would have liked to see that as well, given that Vieira wasn't shy of the odd swing at an opponent, and he was captain.

jmp442
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:36 am
Location: Archway

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by jmp442 »

Agree with the point about Ozil being best in a great team. Put him in a highly organised team where everyone knows their job and is capable of doing it and he would be great.

Our team is not good enough or structured enough to carry someone as flakey as him. I loved watching him for Madrid or Germany before he signed but he's been a real disappointment and is not deserving of the salary rise he's asking for.

I do think singling him out at Stoke was a bit harsh though. If Welbeck could finish then we would have probably won that game through Ozil assists.

User avatar
NickF
Posts: 1628
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:00 am

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by NickF »

Nos89 wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:41 pm
Ozil ran that second half everything positive we did through him. Also, where was he when Jese scored? In our penalty box, tracking back. It was Monreals job to close him down bit he was way too slow.
Had welbeck been able to react quickly then Ozil would have 2 assists and motm. He look exasperated at the end of the match, he certainly didn't appear to be like a player who didn't give a shit.
As for Jack. Good. The city played was way out of line. A fit Wilshere with a point to prove would make my starting line up. Wenger would have liked to see that as well, given that Vieira wasn't shy of the odd swing at an opponent, and he was captain.
Therein lies the problem. surrounding Ozil with utter sh*te like Welbeck.
Also, Wilshere is never fit for more than a couple of games so is of no use. Would have loved him to have made the grade, but how long do you keeping hanging on and hoping they come good (infinity if you're Walcott)?

User avatar
DB10GOONER
Posts: 58940
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:06 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Contact:

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by DB10GOONER »

oaodan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 pm
I am very surprised with some of the lengths people go to exscuse Ozil.I hate him in an Arsenal jersey.Someone compared him to Bergkamp, Bergkamp was a genius not least because he had a nasty streak.Didnt Fergie say he hated him because he was a dirty fecker.Ozil is completely harmless.Another said he could walk into Real,BarcaPSG teams. I think the only reason he is still with us is noone really wants him.My own theory on his assists? How many in the big games? And how many because he is shit in front of goal himself.His goals tally for a lazy fucker who only offers anything going forward is rubbish.He has divided supporters everywhere always.Most top managers wouldn't waste time with him.
:coffeespit: :oops: :oops: :oops: :coffeespit:

Gave the brain a day off, huh? :roll: :lol: :wink:

No one compared Ozil directly to Bergkamp you drongo... :lol: :wink: The situation was compared, in that Bergkamp was a much much better more efective player with Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry, Pires etc than he was with Hillier, McGolderick, Selley and Hartson... Top players are more effective when playing with other top players, players that can read the game quickly and have excellent technical ability... do you see....? :wink:

User avatar
Herd
Posts: 6386
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:00 am

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by Herd »

Your only as good as they players around you and only Sanchez is anywhere near Ozils level .
Berkamp and Pires would struggle in this team without Ozil but with him they would cut loose .
We play him in an awkward position which also limits what he can do .
He looks like a square peg in a round hole but that's the same for most players in this team .
Sadly if we sell Sanchez we might as well sell Ozil and get a herd man destroyer as the rest just dont get him !

arseofacrow
Posts: 6173
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: Cologne

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by arseofacrow »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:53 am
oaodan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 pm
I am very surprised with some of the lengths people go to exscuse Ozil.I hate him in an Arsenal jersey.Someone compared him to Bergkamp, Bergkamp was a genius not least because he had a nasty streak.Didnt Fergie say he hated him because he was a dirty fecker.Ozil is completely harmless.Another said he could walk into Real,BarcaPSG teams. I think the only reason he is still with us is noone really wants him.My own theory on his assists? How many in the big games? And how many because he is shit in front of goal himself.His goals tally for a lazy fucker who only offers anything going forward is rubbish.He has divided supporters everywhere always.Most top managers wouldn't waste time with him.
:coffeespit: :oops: :oops: :oops: :coffeespit:

Gave the brain a day off, huh? :roll: :lol: :wink:

No one compared Ozil directly to Bergkamp you drongo... :lol: :wink: The situation was compared, in that Bergkamp was a much much better more efective player with Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry, Pires etc than he was with Hillier, McGolderick, Selley and Hartson... Top players are more effective when playing with other top players, players that can read the game quickly and have excellent technical ability... do you see....? :wink:
That's true and in that era he'd have a very nice time. But the German national team fans have the same complaints about him as some of our fans and there he is surrounded by world class players. The general view is they'd have won the world cup without him as well.

Two sides: one is that he doesn't help himself and the other iside that the rest of the fuckwits don't exactly make it easy either.

In summary: we're a bit of a shambles :barscarf:

User avatar
DB10GOONER
Posts: 58940
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:06 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Contact:

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by DB10GOONER »

arseofacrow wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:24 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:53 am
oaodan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 pm
I am very surprised with some of the lengths people go to exscuse Ozil.I hate him in an Arsenal jersey.Someone compared him to Bergkamp, Bergkamp was a genius not least because he had a nasty streak.Didnt Fergie say he hated him because he was a dirty fecker.Ozil is completely harmless.Another said he could walk into Real,BarcaPSG teams. I think the only reason he is still with us is noone really wants him.My own theory on his assists? How many in the big games? And how many because he is shit in front of goal himself.His goals tally for a lazy fucker who only offers anything going forward is rubbish.He has divided supporters everywhere always.Most top managers wouldn't waste time with him.
:coffeespit: :oops: :oops: :oops: :coffeespit:

Gave the brain a day off, huh? :roll: :lol: :wink:

No one compared Ozil directly to Bergkamp you drongo... :lol: :wink: The situation was compared, in that Bergkamp was a much much better more efective player with Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry, Pires etc than he was with Hillier, McGolderick, Selley and Hartson... Top players are more effective when playing with other top players, players that can read the game quickly and have excellent technical ability... do you see....? :wink:
That's true and in that era he'd have a very nice time. But the German national team fans have the same complaints about him as some of our fans and there he is surrounded by world class players. The general view is they'd have won the world cup without him as well.

Two sides: one is that he doesn't help himself and the other iside that the rest of the fuckwits don't exactly make it easy either.

In summary: we're a bit of a shambles :barscarf:
There are other factors that contribute to the German fans "complex" relationship with Ozil, some of them cultural (they like workers as much as many PL fans do). A reasonably accurate (if brief) report on it is here;

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2014/03/06/ge ... nst-chile/

And

http://dailycannon.com/2015/01/mesut-oz ... rman-fans/

Also, I think you are slightly exaggerating the attitude towards Ozil in Germany. He certainly divides fans, but not hugely one way or the other. Didn't he win the German player of the year award 4 times? So not all negative towards him then... :wink:



We deffo are a shambles though. :lol:

worthing_gooner
Posts: 1951
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:47 pm
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by worthing_gooner »

oaodan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 pm
I am very surprised with some of the lengths people go to exscuse Ozil.I hate him in an Arsenal jersey.Someone compared him to Bergkamp, Bergkamp was a genius not least because he had a nasty streak.Didnt Fergie say he hated him because he was a dirty fecker.Ozil is completely harmless.Another said he could walk into Real,BarcaPSG teams. I think the only reason he is still with us is noone really wants him.My own theory on his assists? How many in the big games? And how many because he is shit in front of goal himself.His goals tally for a lazy fucker who only offers anything going forward is rubbish.He has divided supporters everywhere always.Most top managers wouldn't waste time with him.
I don't honestly think anyone is excusing Ozil, more that people shouldn't be scapegoating him because there's no question he's a quality player.

You said your theory on his assists - how many in big games? Well in answer to your question he virtually broke the assists record within the first half of last season and he'd have absolutely smashed it if we had a world class striker. And to be honest, that blows the other arguments out of the water really. Do you want someone laying goal after goal after goal on a plate for our forwards... or not? :rubchin:

arseofacrow
Posts: 6173
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: Cologne

Re: Our diabolical midfield

Post by arseofacrow »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:54 am
arseofacrow wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:24 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:53 am
oaodan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 pm
I am very surprised with some of the lengths people go to exscuse Ozil.I hate him in an Arsenal jersey.Someone compared him to Bergkamp, Bergkamp was a genius not least because he had a nasty streak.Didnt Fergie say he hated him because he was a dirty fecker.Ozil is completely harmless.Another said he could walk into Real,BarcaPSG teams. I think the only reason he is still with us is noone really wants him.My own theory on his assists? How many in the big games? And how many because he is shit in front of goal himself.His goals tally for a lazy fucker who only offers anything going forward is rubbish.He has divided supporters everywhere always.Most top managers wouldn't waste time with him.
:coffeespit: :oops: :oops: :oops: :coffeespit:

Gave the brain a day off, huh? :roll: :lol: :wink:

No one compared Ozil directly to Bergkamp you drongo... :lol: :wink: The situation was compared, in that Bergkamp was a much much better more efective player with Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry, Pires etc than he was with Hillier, McGolderick, Selley and Hartson... Top players are more effective when playing with other top players, players that can read the game quickly and have excellent technical ability... do you see....? :wink:
That's true and in that era he'd have a very nice time. But the German national team fans have the same complaints about him as some of our fans and there he is surrounded by world class players. The general view is they'd have won the world cup without him as well.

Two sides: one is that he doesn't help himself and the other iside that the rest of the fuckwits don't exactly make it easy either.

In summary: we're a bit of a shambles :barscarf:
There are other factors that contribute to the German fans "complex" relationship with Ozil, some of them cultural (they like workers as much as many PL fans do). A reasonably accurate (if brief) report on it is here;

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2014/03/06/ge ... nst-chile/

And

http://dailycannon.com/2015/01/mesut-oz ... rman-fans/

Also, I think you are slightly exaggerating the attitude towards Ozil in Germany. He certainly divides fans, but not hugely one way or the other. Didn't he win the German player of the year award 4 times? So not all negative towards him then... :wink:



We deffo are a shambles though. :lol:
:barscarf: Shambles Rovers. :barscarf:

I'm just giving you first hand accounts mate, rather than supposition...I know, I know that's unusual on here. And it is divided opinion although they all say technically one of the best but quick to not be quick when things are going against you.

I've no idea what he's won (statsman :wink: ), but you have to appreciate where he is now. Maybe if he's fed up with laying on chances and them being squandered, he should put that sweet left foot through the ball and net a few goals, which we desperately need from midfield. :barscarf: :barscarf:

Edit: Ozil is nowhere near the biggest problem that the club has at the moment. I'd rather be giving Walcott all my vitriol but I've got nothing left. He's finally won! :banghead: :cussing: :wink:

Post Reply