CROWDFUNDING - WENGER GONE, NOW REMOVE KROENKE

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Rugby Gooner
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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Rugby Gooner »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:23 pm
Rugby Gooner wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:59 pm
The problem is that the majority of "fans" that attend the bowl are either tourists or the Hipster brigade,both of which love their,"matchday experience," so will not only refuse to get involved with any protests,but will actually try to disrupt them. :evil:
Is it tourists though ?? I'm not convinced about that any more.

I was out with my kids yesterday in and around Kings Cross station. Most of our fans are older and obviously English. They are like Zombies - when you listen to their conversations there is no anger, no concerns, no passion - just acceptance of the overpriced shite they're about to watch.

Just like on the marches last year. I and several others, noticed how most of the home crowd just turn up in their replica shirts and scarves, following the same routines. It's more about familiarity for most of them.
When I say "Tourists" I don't just mean overseas visitors,I also mean the fuckers who were Chavs when they got the money,then Citeh,and us back when we did the Invincible season.
I "know" :censored: in Rugby who have been all of the above,and then Leicester when they won the Premier League.
I mean the wankers who are not emotionally invested in the Club,but see it as an "experience",or a "ticking off" exercise,an opportunity for a selfie,and a facebook post.Fuck them all!

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Retro Gunner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:06 pm
How on earth can you raise money to oust the majority shareholder? Is the plan to raise enough to buy his shares?

Yeah, yeah, that's it SteveO, that's the plan. Don't tell Stan though eh ?

Got to ask you....as a fervent "Wenger Outer", what's your problem with people's efforts to do something about the loss and slow fucking death of our Club. We might well be pissing in the wind, but what's the alternative.....tap away on a keyboard crying about it, or trying to at least cause a stir ?

I've only been posting on here since early this year, but have been reading the forum since about 2010. You were / are comfortably one of the best posters imo, I suppose I reached that conclusion because you were voicing things exactly as I saw them. You had Wenger taped at a very early stage and made insightful comments, often laced with humour. You seemed to become far more bitter about it all 3 or 4 years ago, it showed in your posts and believe me, I share the pain. I think most of us on here do....that sense of hopelessness, that the Club is finished, beyond rescuing.

I started to post on here simply because the move to actively do something took off. The choice was to cry in my beer and watch the destruction of a major part of my life, or to join in with an effort to make a change. Are the odds stacked against us ? Yeah sure. Am I convinced that what we're doing will work ? None of us are convinced. Do I feel better for at least not going down without a fight ? Yeah, you can bet your life on that.

I remember your spat with Armchair on here last season. He's a spiky character for sure, but fuck me, no one can doubt that he had the balls to stand up and be counted for his anti Wenger beliefs, even getting physically attacked more than once. From memory, you objected to him criticising people (especially those who are generally London based), who moan on here, but wouldn't support the protests. My opinion (although I can very much see his point), is that we can't question anybody's motives or reasons, we all make our own decisions. All I would say, is that if you want Wenger (and Kroenke) out, but don't see fit to help the protests, that's fine, but please don't take cheap shots at those making an effort.

You're a top poster and a bright guy....join us mate, we need trhe likes of you on board.


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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by SteveO 35 »

Retro Gunner wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:57 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:06 pm
How on earth can you raise money to oust the majority shareholder? Is the plan to raise enough to buy his shares?

Yeah, yeah, that's it SteveO, that's the plan. Don't tell Stan though eh ?

Got to ask you....as a fervent "Wenger Outer", what's your problem with people's efforts to do something about the loss and slow fucking death of our Club. We might well be pissing in the wind, but what's the alternative.....tap away on a keyboard crying about it, or trying to at least cause a stir ?

I've only been posting on here since early this year, but have been reading the forum since about 2010. You were / are comfortably one of the best posters imo, I suppose I reached that conclusion because you were voicing things exactly as I saw them. You had Wenger taped at a very early stage and made insightful comments, often laced with humour. You seemed to become far more bitter about it all 3 or 4 years ago, it showed in your posts and believe me, I share the pain. I think most of us on here do....that sense of hopelessness, that the Club is finished, beyond rescuing.

I started to post on here simply because the move to actively do something took off. The choice was to cry in my beer and watch the destruction of a major part of my life, or to join in with an effort to make a change. Are the odds stacked against us ? Yeah sure. Am I convinced that what we're doing will work ? None of us are convinced. Do I feel better for at least not going down without a fight ? Yeah, you can bet your life on that.

I remember your spat with Armchair on here last season. He's a spiky character for sure, but fuck me, no one can doubt that he had the balls to stand up and be counted for his anti Wenger beliefs, even getting physically attacked more than once. From memory, you objected to him criticising people (especially those who are generally London based), who moan on here, but wouldn't support the protests. My opinion (although I can very much see his point), is that we can't question anybody's motives or reasons, we all make our own decisions. All I would say, is that if you want Wenger (and Kroenke) out, but don't see fit to help the protests, that's fine, but please don't take cheap shots at those making an effort.

You're a top poster and a bright guy....join us mate, we need trhe likes of you on board.
Thanks for the kind words mate, and I wasn't having a pop at you.......I just feel that with Wiggy at the helm holding 67% of the shares or whatever it is now, that he just can't be moved until he finally gets fed up with the investment and sells up. He barely visits the stadium, says two fucking words at the AGM and pisses off back Stateside again. He seems a pretty thick skinned bloke - not surprising for a reptile - and took all the shit and bullets flying his way back home when he moved one of his franchises a thousand miles or more across the States. So, I'm just questioning what the crowd funding is designed to do, as I'm pretty certain any organised protests will fall on deaf ears.

The only conclusion I've come to is that we need to starve the club of funds by not going to games and spending any money at all on any of their official products. The counter argument that has been made to that consistently is that "if you don't go, thousands of others still will", but I can only control my own actions and not theirs and it needs to start somewhere. I've given up my Silver memberships and won't be setting foot in that place until he goes. If 57000 others really felt as strongly as me, they might do the same, but they won't. I've heard the arguments about us being here before Kroenke, and being here when he's gone and why should they give up their tickets, but I could say exactly the same. I first went in the late 70s and it played a regular part in my life for donkeys years.

My hope now is that he actually allows Wenger to stay on and on and on........because his incompetence is slowing taking us down the league and eventually that will result in more fans staying away. We went from champions / runners up on a consistent basis 15-20 years, before beginning to accept 4th as our 'par place' and I'm absolutely certain now that 5th - 7th is the new normal. It will only take one or two more like Everton to attract overseas investment on a major scale and that 'new normal' will become 8th, 9th, 10th......who knows how low we can fall.

Armchair and I had our spats but never did I try to belittle what anyone did in those protests - in fact in the early days I remember singling him out for praise and knew he had to face the music every week from the AKBs. What I objected to was him sneering at anyone who didn't take part.....everyone is free to choose their own way to protest. It might well seem like I'm doing nothing just moaning on here but I still think if we had thousands who did the same thing and refused to go to games or buy any of their shit, we'd be contributing much more to Kroenke's demise than just marching and sticking banners up.

However, I do enjoy watching Shit for Brains go through the wringer - it makes my day in fact, so if the intention is to make his "matchday experience" all the more unbearable then I wish you all the best with it !

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Jumpers For Goalposts »

Heartfelt Steve O. We do enjoy making Wenger's life more miserable because he sure as hell has made ours very miserable. My motivation for organising the protests is thinking about how good it will feel when finally he goes.

We all realise that what we are doing is akin to firing a pea shooter at an Elephant but if we all walk away or sit in silent acceptance, then Wenger and Co will sail serenely on, thinking that they are sooooo bloody smart.

Please mate - come to the West Brom protest. None of us go into the stadium - we have a good shout up and then go home. We don't give them a penny!! The first protest vs Bayern was the most fun I've had at Arsenal in years.

Surely it's better than letting those smug bastards ruin our club with impunity ????

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by NickF »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:44 pm
Heartfelt Steve O. We do enjoy making Wenger's life more miserable because he sure as hell has made ours very miserable. My motivation for organising the protests is thinking about how good it will feel when finally he goes.

We all realise that what we are doing is akin to firing a pea shooter at an Elephant but if we all walk away or sit in silent acceptance, then Wenger and Co will sail serenely on, thinking that they are sooooo bloody smart.

Please mate - come to the West Brom protest. None of us go into the stadium - we have a good shout up and then go home. We don't give them a penny!! The first protest vs Bayern was the most fun I've had at Arsenal in years.

Surely it's better than letting those smug bastards ruin our club with impunity ????
I concur. First time i felt we actually had some solidarity since Highbury.

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Sean »

Lots of good posts here.

I have enjoyed going along to all the protests, even if I felt a little down about the turnouts at times, including the West Ham no show. I've also enjoyed going along to help at the events I have been invited to by the main organisers, even if I've only been invited because I happened to be a local. I've met some great lads with passion for The Arsenal who are prepared to put their money and time to use to turn up the heat on The Old Fraud.

I understand that some Gooners will want to know where the money is going, but as we know, we are being monitored and simply could not release any information that could be used to counter whatever we do. As has been said, I'd hope that last season's protests and stunts proved we can be trusted to put the money to good use. I have also suggested a couple of times that any excess money could be given to something appropriate like Arsenal in the Community, or something.

As it is, the protests and activities will start soon and will surely go throughout the season, building momentum as we will surely have a tough season on the pitch with this unbalanced side. This will be much harder than the Billy Wright or Terry Neill protests ever were and will have to be maintained for as long it it takes. Everything we can do to make The Old Fraud uncom-fort-able is worth the effort.

Up The Arsenal.

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Steve_I »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:57 am
Steve_I wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:15 pm
augie wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:52 am
xisstential wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:44 am
Gonna get dogs abuse on there again I bet, wish I could take my name off. Not letting people comment would help as well :? :? :?



If you setting up another one down the line, feel free to use my name whilst still using your own bank account details if it helps - I do not give a continental fcuk what any of those akb w**kers have to say, and if any of them stick their head up at all, we should get a "posse" together to give them a right good kicking (would love to kick the shit out of a few of them c.unts right now tbh 8) )
Tosser
Nice to see the usual insightful contribution from our AKB cousins. Well played old boy. :lol: :oops:
Anytime mate. Happy to pitch in but thought it worth a 'tosser ' at some kid threatening violence on fellow gooners. Each to his own eh?

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Gunner Rob »

I largely agree with Steveo's posts on here.

you are effectively taking on a billionaire with pennies - it won't work I am afraid.
much more effective to boycott the games - and I am genuinely surprised how many tickets continue to be available for the upcoming games.
people do seem to be taking this approach and it IS working!

it will be very interesting to see how many season ticket holders give Thursday night a miss and whats everyone's estimates for the Doncaster attendance? I reckon at the moment 20,000 maximum.

the only march that I could attend last season was cancelled (evening game v West Ham I think) but there was also supposed to be a do not enter for the first 10 minutes protest at that game. so i did end up getting a ticket for that match, and stayed on the concourse for the first part of the match.....whilst thousands of zombies took their seats at their usual time...it was at that point that I realised that the protests were not going to work, so lost interest in it all to be honest.

one thing that I think that a protest march could achieve is this - the majority of the Emirates crowd now go to watch Arsenal for the "match day experience" the day bit is important, as those who go no longer seem to be able to connect matches togetjher. if the team wins 3-0 then it appears to be irrelevant who the opposition is.
anyway if that "match day experience" could be soured by protesting fans then that can only be good news and might put a few people off attending.
if that happens then I will be in and add to your numbers.

the WBA game for me though comes too early - loads of easy home games around for Arsenal at the moment which means that Wenger will get an easy ride (he always does at this time of the season, which is why the AGM is always scheduled in October. once November kicks in though 8) then lets hound him out!

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by xisstential »

Gunner Rob wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:48 pm
I largely agree with Steveo's posts on here.

you are effectively taking on a billionaire with pennies - it won't work I am afraid.
much more effective to boycott the games - and I am genuinely surprised how many tickets continue to be available for the upcoming games.
people do seem to be taking this approach and it IS working!

it will be very interesting to see how many season ticket holders give Thursday night a miss and whats everyone's estimates for the Doncaster attendance? I reckon at the moment 20,000 maximum.

the only march that I could attend last season was cancelled (evening game v West Ham I think) but there was also supposed to be a do not enter for the first 10 minutes protest at that game. so i did end up getting a ticket for that match, and stayed on the concourse for the first part of the match.....whilst thousands of zombies took their seats at their usual time...it was at that point that I realised that the protests were not going to work, so lost interest in it all to be honest.

one thing that I think that a protest march could achieve is this - the majority of the Emirates crowd now go to watch Arsenal for the "match day experience" the day bit is important, as those who go no longer seem to be able to connect matches togetjher. if the team wins 3-0 then it appears to be irrelevant who the opposition is.
anyway if that "match day experience" could be soured by protesting fans then that can only be good news and might put a few people off attending.
if that happens then I will be in and add to your numbers.

the WBA game for me though comes too early - loads of easy home games around for Arsenal at the moment which means that Wenger will get an easy ride (he always does at this time of the season, which is why the AGM is always scheduled in October. once November kicks in though 8) then lets hound him out!
I kinda agree, I was saying yesterday we should cancel WBA. We will probably beat Cologne, then we will be on "an unbeaten run". Even if we lose 10 nil to Chelsea it will be casually dismissed as a one off and by the time WBA rolls around the sheep will have forgotten and be happy again. Thing is Pulis has his number so WB might even get a draw.

Later in October..through November & December, that is where the real horrors lie for him. Both Manc clubs, the tots, a whole mess of European games.........

I really think it's worth targeting him, making his life a misery. It gets to him, that has been proved already...and anything that pisses him off is fine by me. You say boycott the games...we do that already, we go protest, maybe have a beer, head home. Staying away on it's own is not going to do it...we need to scream in his face.

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Gunner Rob »

yes i can see your point - boycott and protest.

well I will probably be on board by November.
I reckon just a bit of patience is required at the moment, and also hopefully an unexpected defeat.

if we are not in the top 4 going into November then only expect us to drop from then on.
after all we were top going into December and somehow managed to finish 5th!!

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NickF
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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by NickF »

Gunner Rob wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:58 pm
yes i can see your point - boycott and protest.

well I will probably be on board by November.
I reckon just a bit of patience is required at the moment, and also hopefully an unexpected defeat.

if we are not in the top 4 going into November then only expect us to drop from then on.
after all we were top going into December and somehow managed to finish 5th!!
You mean your not on board now? :shock: :shock:

#GiveHimAChance

General
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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by General »

NickF wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:22 pm
Gunner Rob wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:58 pm
yes i can see your point - boycott and protest.

well I will probably be on board by November.
I reckon just a bit of patience is required at the moment, and also hopefully an unexpected defeat.

if we are not in the top 4 going into November then only expect us to drop from then on.
after all we were top going into December and somehow managed to finish 5th!!
You mean your not on board now? :shock: :shock:

#GiveHimAChance
:lol:

Clash
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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Clash »

Be warned. This is fucking long, negative and depressing even by my miserable standards so don’t read it ... (I’m just posting it to get it off my chest, not trying to derail this thread)

Last season, after pretty much feeling I'd had to distance myself from Arsenal for a while, I felt rejuvenated when the protest thing started up. Wenger was coming to the end of his contract, results were going against him, more and more fans were finally turning against him. Allegri was waiting in the wings to take over. There was light at the end of the tunnel. Or so I thought ...

I went to a couple of the marches and did the 13 min protest against West Ham (along with about six others by the look of it so we just looked like a late-comers) and I paid over £200 towards the fund raising. Which I don’t regret by the way … the guys on here did a fantastic job and used the money wisely and creatively. Their efforts were very much appreciated by myself and many others I know.

However, Wenger’s luck returned as it always does and he signed his new deal. That was when I realised the club was dead. Not dying, dead! And I realise now that even if he’d gone last summer, it was still dead.

The questions I would like to ask - in the event that these protests do have the desired impact , what sort of club are you expecting to find after Wenger (and maybe Kroenke) have gone? And is it really one worth fighting for?

For me it isn’t. There is nothing left there anymore. If the end result of any long-term campaign had the possibility of ridding ourselves of these pricks … getting in some real Arsenal men to replace them … and returning to Highbury the way Charlton returned to The Valley … then I wouldn’t give up so easily. But this obviously isn’t possible.

I hear people say they will go back when Wenger is gone. I’ve said this myself. But go back to what exactly?

I hear the same people and others saying Wenger needs to go because ‘’he is destroying Arsenal''. But I think ‘’he has destroyed Arsenal’’ is more accurate. Destroying makes it sound like there is still hope. There isn’t. Wenger and a few others have fucked this club forever. There is left nothing meaningful to save.

I admire people for carrying on but I cant help thinking t’s as futile as people fighting to remove the piles rubble that covered their homes, hoping to find buried relatives still alive weeks after an earthquake.

Can anyone really envisage a scenario in our lifetimes where we have a real Arsenal Football Club alive and well? On and off the pitch? I just cannot picture this in my mind.

We’ll always be at the that soulless bowl now … we’ll probably always play a certain tepid and passionless ‘brand’ of football … and we’ll always have thousands of total wankers in the stands at our home games. They’re not going anywhere just like the club isn't.

Wenger’s name will always be associated with the club now. The culture and habits he has instilled will either never be removed or will take a lifetime to remove

And who is going to do that? The few people that might have been able to have done it have not and will not be allowed anywhere near the place.

No future manager will come in and rip the place apart like is needed. The club will only appoint those who will carry on with the Wenger blueprint because that will be the key requirement. And so even after Wenger isn’t actually the manager anymore, his influence will live on. That is the way he has engineered things. I detest Gazidis but he is right when he says the club has Wenger’s DNA. It sickens me because it is the truth.

It should never have been allowed to happen of course. We should have stopped him several years ago or been more demanding about what we wanted if we had to leave Highbury (which I dont believe was the case).

Starting the protesting in February 2017 was a noble attempt and worth a try but it was too late to save the club even if it had succeeded in getting Wenger out.

We are all guilty of letting this dangerous cult grow out of control. But at the same time we have been the unfortunate victims of a complete freak of a man becoming our manager – compounded by a freak set of circumstances that meant he got to build up his reputation into something bigger and better than he ever was.

In general I hate people giving up and being defeatist like I am being here but you can only keep going if you believe there is something to fight for.

The thought of Arsenal playing at the Emirates stadium for the rest of my lifetime is the real killer for me I hate that place so much. How can I (or anyone) ever be passionate about their team playing in a place like that?

Despite giving up on the future of the club, I might still donate at a later date if it helps to show Wenger up for what he is. But it will only be out of spite and pure hatred for the man and a desire to see him suffer.

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Re: CROWDFUNDING - REMOVE WENGER & KROENKE

Post by Retro Gunner »

Clash wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:09 pm
Be warned. This is fucking long, negative and depressing even by my miserable standards so don’t read it ... (I’m just posting it to get it off my chest, not trying to derail this thread)

Last season, after pretty much feeling I'd had to distance myself from Arsenal for a while, I felt rejuvenated when the protest thing started up. Wenger was coming to the end of his contract, results were going against him, more and more fans were finally turning against him. Allegri was waiting in the wings to take over. There was light at the end of the tunnel. Or so I thought ...

I went to a couple of the marches and did the 13 min protest against West Ham (along with about six others by the look of it so we just looked like a late-comers) and I paid over £200 towards the fund raising. Which I don’t regret by the way … the guys on here did a fantastic job and used the money wisely and creatively. Their efforts were very much appreciated by myself and many others I know.

However, Wenger’s luck returned as it always does and he signed his new deal. That was when I realised the club was dead. Not dying, dead! And I realise now that even if he’d gone last summer, it was still dead.

The questions I would like to ask - in the event that these protests do have the desired impact , what sort of club are you expecting to find after Wenger (and maybe Kroenke) have gone? And is it really one worth fighting for?

For me it isn’t. There is nothing left there anymore. If the end result of any long-term campaign had the possibility of ridding ourselves of these pricks … getting in some real Arsenal men to replace them … and returning to Highbury the way Charlton returned to The Valley … then I wouldn’t give up so easily. But this obviously isn’t possible.

I hear people say they will go back when Wenger is gone. I’ve said this myself. But go back to what exactly?

I hear the same people and others saying Wenger needs to go because ‘’he is destroying Arsenal''. But I think ‘’he has destroyed Arsenal’’ is more accurate. Destroying makes it sound like there is still hope. There isn’t. Wenger and a few others have fucked this club forever. There is left nothing meaningful to save.

I admire people for carrying on but I cant help thinking t’s as futile as people fighting to remove the piles rubble that covered their homes, hoping to find buried relatives still alive weeks after an earthquake.

Can anyone really envisage a scenario in our lifetimes where we have a real Arsenal Football Club alive and well? On and off the pitch? I just cannot picture this in my mind.

We’ll always be at the that soulless bowl now … we’ll probably always play a certain tepid and passionless ‘brand’ of football … and we’ll always have thousands of total wankers in the stands at our home games. They’re not going anywhere just like the club isn't.

Wenger’s name will always be associated with the club now. The culture and habits he has instilled will either never be removed or will take a lifetime to remove

And who is going to do that? The few people that might have been able to have done it have not and will not be allowed anywhere near the place.

No future manager will come in and rip the place apart like is needed. The club will only appoint those who will carry on with the Wenger blueprint because that will be the key requirement. And so even after Wenger isn’t actually the manager anymore, his influence will live on. That is the way he has engineered things. I detest Gazidis but he is right when he says the club has Wenger’s DNA. It sickens me because it is the truth.

It should never have been allowed to happen of course. We should have stopped him several years ago or been more demanding about what we wanted if we had to leave Highbury (which I dont believe was the case).

Starting the protesting in February 2017 was a noble attempt and worth a try but it was too late to save the club even if it had succeeded in getting Wenger out.

We are all guilty of letting this dangerous cult grow out of control. But at the same time we have been the unfortunate victims of a complete freak of a man becoming our manager – compounded by a freak set of circumstances that meant he got to build up his reputation into something bigger and better than he ever was.

In general I hate people giving up and being defeatist like I am being here but you can only keep going if you believe there is something to fight for.

The thought of Arsenal playing at the Emirates stadium for the rest of my lifetime is the real killer for me I hate that place so much. How can I (or anyone) ever be passionate about their team playing in a place like that?

Despite giving up on the future of the club, I might still donate at a later date if it helps to show Wenger up for what he is. But it will only be out of spite and pure hatred for the man and a desire to see him suffer.

As I said earlier in this thread, I've only been posting since the early part of this year, but have been reading the forum for years. I've always thought that Clash was a top poster (I suppose, as I said to SteveO, that's because they see it exactly how I do) and this post bears it out. I feel your pain Clash mate and I'd be a liar if I said that I haven't viewed the situation from the same doom ladened aspect. I share your view that even getting shot of Wenger, will no longer be enough.

There is another thread that I deliberately haven't posted on and that concerns whether we should aim the protests at Wenger or Kroenke. The other protest organisers and I have discussed this and it's fair to say that we don't all agree. Despite not expressing my opinion on the other thread, your post has prompted me to come clean and I don't think I'm speaking out of turn.

Having been an avid Wenger Outer for at least 10 years, the emergence of Kroenke, plus our failed attempt to force change last season, has led me to believe that while Wenger was the battle we lost, the real war is Kroenke. Despise Wenger as I do....and trust me, I've long gone way beyond seeing him as purely a crap manager, I see him as a genuinely bad man (greedy, deceitful, power-crazed, duplicitous, self-regarding, spiteful, vengeful, dishonest, cowardly...the list is endless), but as you say, if he goes, nothing of any real significance will change.

Above all, the cretins at the bowl simply will not turn on him in sufficient numbers and if last season's protests achieved anything at all, they proved this beyond all doubt. That dreadful run of form...including an aggregate 10-2 loss !!!....still could not generate enough vocal anti Wenger sentiment in the ground and until we see loud and on-going dissent in the ground, nothing will change.

The single ray of hope for me, lay in the willingness of the crowd to loudly call for Kroenke to "get out of our club", during the last two home games of the season and quite unprovoked by our protest efforts, which had been totally focused on Wenger. These Kroenke attacks were spontaneous and saw more participation than any dissent ever aimed at Wenger inside the stadium. Bear in mind also, that by that time, the results had improved and a Cup Final was on the horizon.

I now fervently believe that we need to harness that willing dissent, by turning our focus on Kroenke. I hear all the arguments about how can we force out a billionaire and there may indeed be scant chance of success, but if we are to continue with protests, we must try. Everyone on here knows that if Kroenke was gone, Wenger's days are numbered. If Wenger goes, we've still got Kroenke and in that case, as Clash says, the Club is dead. The man is a parasite, with no interests in the glory of the Club. It's purely an important and profitable part of his franchise jigsaw.

In my opinion, the only chance we have is to severely damage the brand. Protests, whether marches or stunts, should be aimed at exposing Kroenke as the damaging leech that he is and we should encourage banners inside the ground. We need to stir it up, in an attempt to make the stadium as toxic as possible. We should call for everyone to Boycott certain games, not to spend a single penny on food or drink, not to buy merchandise, no programmes, nothing. To stay silent at matches (that won't be hard to arrange :) ), except for vicious, personal, coordinated chants against Kroenke and his son, especially for televised matches. This needs to be as nasty as possible, staying just within the law. The biggest hope we've got is that it becomes so vicious, spiteful and toxic, that the sponsors start to shy away. If the brand becomes damaged enough, then he might, just might, decide to sell up and fuck off.

I'm not naive, I realise the enormity of this task and the slim chance of success, but if the Club is to be saved, it's all we've got. Get rid of Kroenke and Wenger's gone too. If we managed to force Wenger out, whoever the Club appointed would have to be given a chance. At modern day Arsenal, he'd fail. We'd then get another and would be duty bound to give him a chance. He'd fail. We'd get another and on and on. After six, seven or eight years, we might decide that Kroenke is the problem....except we wont, because the few remaining old school amongst us will be gone and the Club will be truly dead. Going after both dilutes the message and kills the focus. We need to target Kroenke. There'll be many that scream that Wenger must not be allowed off the hook. Well, that's letting emotion get in the way of good sense and in the way of what's best for the Club. Wenger is only as good as the parasite that renewed his contract. Get rid of Kroenke and they're both gone.

Sorry to follow up Clash's post with this diatribe, but I also needed to get it out.

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