The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

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DB10GOONER
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by DB10GOONER »

NickF wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:51 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:14 am
This photo says everything about our defending and the lack of proper defensive coaching/discipline;
Isn't there a very similar picture from West Brom away last season?
Lesson are never learnt which is why we have no chance of winning the title with Wenger.

EDIT - This was the one:

Image
Zonal marking at its best! :oops: :oops: :lol:

I remember Lee Dixon being asked about zonal marking and he said that usually they would set up man to man, but sometimes under GG the old Arsenal back 4 would utilise zonal marking - but that they drilled and drilled in how to control their zone. the obvious implication being you should not use zonal marking without teaching your defenders how to do it and then practicing it.

Also the unsaid elephant in the room from Dicko's comments was that the old Arsenal back 4 had the intelligence and coaching required to adapt to zonal when needed whereas the current crop are not good enough or coached well enough to be able to do the same thing. :|

Wenger struck lucky with inheritting that back 4, then he had one of his few genuine moments of genius to place Vieira and Petit in front of them. Now he seems incapable of seeing that you cannot win the CL or the PL without a solid defence.

Blade
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by Blade »

Image

Can utilize zonal if have old school CBs like Linighan,Bould,Adams,Keown who attack the space the ball is arriving at like a rabid dog -they not afraid of getting their head bashed in.Not like above graphic..

Chambers on wrong side and BFG not even off the ground..

Jumpers For Goalposts
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by Jumpers For Goalposts »

NickF wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Isn't there a very similar picture from West Brom away last season?
Lesson are never learnt which is why we have no chance of winning the title with Wenger.

EDIT - This was the one:

Image
Thanks Nick.

That photo shows up so many defensive problems doesn't it?
1. There are 7 Arsenal players in one small area of the 6 yard box and every one of them is ball watching.
2. Because of that nobody is able to counter the two West Brom players, who now have a free header from 6 yards
3. The player nearest those 2 (Ramsey??) isn't able even to nudge them or block them, because he is facing his own goal so cannot attack the ball.
4. Helmet Head is rooted to the spot, held back by the oldest trick in the book - i.e. being blocked by a big opponent.
5. Nobody has been tasked with pushing that big opponent away from the keeper.
6. WTF is Bellerin doing?? Presumably he's meant to be guarding the post but he's wandered 2 yards outside the post and 2 yards off the line.

How the fuck can a supposedly top team be so awful at defending a set piece?? It's almost laughable

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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by Jumpers For Goalposts »

Looking at it again - Bellerin looks as if he's at a party and the DJ has just put on "Gangnam Style"

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OneBardGooner
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by OneBardGooner »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:23 pm
Looking at it again - Bellerin looks as if he's at a party and the DJ has just put on "Gangnam Style"
:lol:

Either that or he's dong that dance from the Office by whatsisface.

tink77vip
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by tink77vip »

Arsenal fan tv always going on about him but he's nowhere near a top level defender

General
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by General »

augie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:46 pm
xisstential wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:13 pm
GranadaJoe wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:46 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:18 pm
supergeorgegraham wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:08 am
Well it didn't take long for Mustafi to have a stinker. I should have known better but you live in hope as an Arsenal fan these days.
TBH and despite the occasional hysteria on here Mustafi is not a shit defender. He's not world class either by any stretch of the imagination, but for me he is about average for the PL - he'll have good games and poor games. The problem is we don't have a defensive system or coaching that can help limit the amount of poor games he has.
I think technically he's OK and when he's up for it, as against the Scum, he looks good, but he's got this Beckenbauer complex. Ever since he's been here he's tried running upfield with the ball, but he's not got the skill. Kos does the same. I presume AW tells them to do it, or at least lets them do it.
Additionally, they're always prone to a momentous fuck-up.
Xhaka needs to shoulder some, if not most of the blame for that goal....Xhaka was under pressure so he plays it back to Mustafi who started moving across the field with the same player who was pressurising Xhaka now hot on his ass. And Mustafi found nobody made themselves available for the ball, he subsequently lost it and the rest....................

As DB said, he is not all bad, neither is Kos, coached properly they could probably be very good. They are no worse than a lot of CB's in the PL, the others just play in a more structured set up, are disciplined and generally cover each other.


And if he turns backwards and plays the simple backpass to helmet head, the fcuk up doesn't happen - mustafi had enough time to get rid but he hesitated looking for the forward pass (as wanka expects his defenders to create too :roll: ), but even when he seen it wasn't on, he still had enough time to pass back to cech. One of the many problems with our players is that they believe that they are better footballers than they actually are, and that clown was too cock sure that he was gonna be able to play football in that situation, that being practical and moving it quicker, never entered his head :evil:
Didn't Monreal and Cech recently tie themselves in all sorts of knots from a backpass at Everton and we ended up conceding?

Sure Mustafi could have played it back to Cech or kicked it long (no good with a short striker up front) but we are talking about an incident within the opening minutes of a game here. There was no need for panic defending or desperate measures. Even after Mustafi lost the ball it should not have been the end of the world. Mitigation immediately kicks in for a well coached team and they see off the danger. Instead our defensive shape completely fell to pieces and that's the root cause here not the individual error. One thing goes wrong and disaster unfolds in Wenger's asylum. We don't have the players or tactical know how to recover this simple situation.

Xhaka set off the chain of events and he's very much part of the problem. A passing team cannot function without a proper engine room and it's an inherent issue we face every time we come up against a decent side. We are using our defenders to compensate for our shambolic midfield and as you say they've clearly been instructed to act as ball carriers. No coincidence that both Koscielny and Mustafi were caught in possession for both goals.

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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by Blade »

noticed every time opps attack it ends up as a corner,free kick,throw in,panic clearance,goal,own-goal.Its never repelled via stout defending.

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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by General »

We never play out of the back with confidence and you always feel something is about to go wrong. Jose did his homework and went straight for the jugular from the off. Watch Atletico v Chelsea yesterday to see how the ball is transitioned from the back under pressure with precision and assertiveness. The triangulation is several levels above ours.

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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by AkneyGooner »

Sometimes I think our defenders are not trained in the subtle are of:

Hoofing the ball the fuck out of play.

It's the only thing to do once you have messed up like Mustafi did, but you have to hoof it OUT OF PLAY and regroup, not just hoy it up the park, as it might go straight back past you as a through ball .

You have dilly dallied on the ball, your close to getting caught on the ball your a defender..
Do you...

A) do one more pirouette with the ball.

B) fuck the thing into row Z, and run back into position snarling at your players for not giving you an out ball.

C) Do option A but then also pretend your injured as you can't face up to your mistake .

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Arsenal Till I Die
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by Arsenal Till I Die »

We can't just be nieve to think that a vast majority of the players we sign are ''shit.'' They're not. It's a lot to do with the quality of the coaching.

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NickF
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by NickF »

Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pm
We can't just be nieve to think that a vast majority of the players we sign are ''shit.'' They're not. It's a lot to do with the quality of the coaching.
And yet this was the manager who signed Sonogoals, Andros Santos and the fella with the broken back. Of course not all his signings are shit but there has definitely been a good number that are/were.

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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by DB10GOONER »

NickF wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:34 pm
Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pm
We can't just be nieve to think that a vast majority of the players we sign are ''shit.'' They're not. It's a lot to do with the quality of the coaching.
And yet this was the manager who signed Sonogoals, Andros Santos and the fella with the broken back. Of course not all his signings are shit but there has definitely been a good number that are/were.
The only thing I'd say there though is that Wenger's list of duds (that were duds from day one, and not ruined by him) is comparable to any other manager's list of duds. All managers take a punt, some players work out, some don't. Rednose Ferguson's list of duds was appalling let's not forget. The big difference of course is that managers like Rednose ruined very few of their players in the way Wenger has ruined so many potentially good or great signings. :|

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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by arseofacrow »

We don't sign duds, we make them.

But we do, also, sign duds.

Big difference is Fergie would sign a griezmann and sango,...and ship sanogo out after half a year. To Siberia. :cussing:

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SteveO 35
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Re: The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:53 am
NickF wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:34 pm
Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pm
We can't just be nieve to think that a vast majority of the players we sign are ''shit.'' They're not. It's a lot to do with the quality of the coaching.
And yet this was the manager who signed Sonogoals, Andros Santos and the fella with the broken back. Of course not all his signings are shit but there has definitely been a good number that are/were.
The only thing I'd say there though is that Wenger's list of duds (that were duds from day one, and not ruined by him) is comparable to any other manager's list of duds. All managers take a punt, some players work out, some don't. Rednose Ferguson's list of duds was appalling let's not forget. The big difference of course is that managers like Rednose ruined very few of their players in the way Wenger has ruined so many potentially good or great signings. :|
Ferguson got rid of high profile duds like Veron after a relatively short period of time though......unlike Shit for Brains who 11 years later still has Wally on his books and has also suffered 9 years of Twirly.

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