The "Mustafi & Poor Defending in general" Thread

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Jumpers For Goalposts
Posts: 2245
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 12:42 pm

Re: Mustafi

Post by Jumpers For Goalposts »

Frank McLintock
Chris Whyte
Tommy Caton
Tony Adams
Steve Bould
Martin Keown
Sol Campbell
Shkodran Mustafi

Anyone spot the odd one out ????

User avatar
shu
Posts: 1444
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:47 pm
Location: Norwich

Re: Mustafi

Post by shu »

The one that lost his spine and sits next to Wenger ? Ha ha

User avatar
wibble
Posts: 1303
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: Mustafi

Post by wibble »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:00 am
Frank McLintock
Chris Whyte
Tommy Caton
Tony Adams
Steve Bould
Martin Keown
Sol Campbell
Shkodran Mustafi

Anyone spot the odd one out ????
Is there a prize?

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 21218
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Re: Mustafi

Post by SteveO 35 »

He's absolutely gash and has been since day one - too flimsy and too much of a coward for the PL, slow as shit and braindead. He'd better dine out on that Spuds goal for a while, because its just about the only good thing he's ever done for us. Just seen yesterday's goals - what a useless, braindead, fucktard

Blood_Gooner
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Mustafi

Post by Blood_Gooner »

Get rid of the senile old krunt!

Oh wait... my bad... this isn't a wonga thread, is it? Well then just get of whichever useless fucktard it's about as well.

User avatar
flash gunner
Posts: 29236
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Armchairsville. FACT.

Re: Mustafi

Post by flash gunner »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:00 am
Frank McLintock
Chris Whyte
Tommy Caton
Tony Adams
Steve Bould
Martin Keown
Sol Campbell
Shkodran Mustafi

Anyone spot the odd one out ????
Chris Whyte had patchy hair? :?

xisstential
Posts: 5214
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:33 am

Re: Mustafi

Post by xisstential »

What goes on in our backline and midfield is so alarming. And it is EVERY game, fortunately there are only about 6 or 7 teams that can actually punish us.

On Saturday, Xhaka, facing his own goal and under pressure, offloads the ball back to Mustafi. ...who then drifts sideways from right to left but is now also coming under pressure from behind. The midfield has now disappeared and there is no one to pass to with Monreal also hiding out on the touchline and not wanting the ball either. Mustafi gets robbed of the ball and everything after that descends into chaos....there is actually a picture on line with FOUR of our defenders trying to close Pogba down, including Monreal, who leaves Lingaard completely unmarked, the ball gets played through to him and he scores. MustafI immediately limps off with a badly bruised ego.

This chaotic defending and midfield lapses are a weekly occurrence but as I said earlier there are not enough teams in the PL to punish us.

Down the line we will get badly beaten in the Europa as well. How can NOBODY at the club see what is going on with our midfield and defense???

User avatar
augie
Posts: 29393
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mustafi

Post by augie »

xisstential wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:34 am
What goes on in our backline and midfield is so alarming. And it is EVERY game, fortunately there are only about 6 or 7 teams that can actually punish us.

On Saturday, Xhaka, facing his own goal and under pressure, offloads the ball back to Mustafi. ...who then drifts sideways from right to left but is now also coming under pressure from behind. The midfield has now disappeared and there is no one to pass to with Monreal also hiding out on the touchline and not wanting the ball either. Mustafi gets robbed of the ball and everything after that descends into chaos....there is actually a picture on line with FOUR of our defenders trying to close Pogba down, including Monreal, who leaves Lingaard completely unmarked, the ball gets played through to him and he scores. MustafI immediately limps off with a badly bruised ego.

This chaotic defending and midfield lapses are a weekly occurrence but as I said earlier there are not enough teams in the PL to punish us.

Down the line we will get badly beaten in the Europa as well. How can NOBODY at the club see what is going on with our midfield and defense???




Maybe they can see it and are not allowed interfere, or maybe they just don't see it - it is widely assumed that wenker will not allow bould or anyone else to get involved in actual coaching, but what if bould doesn't actually see where the defensive is weak ? There have been countless examples of good players that have been poor coaches and managers, and it is possible that bould is another example of that

There can be no doubt though, that these defenders are not coached and are not the type of defenders that prioritise defending above all else - that being said, we cannot blame coaching for kos again being bitch slapped by an opposition player :oops: How many times have we seen him thrown around like a rag doll by the likes of dogbreath at the chavs ? It is very embarrassing for a centre half to be thrown around like that - without doubt the centre back position is the one that requires more physical strength than any other position, and this weakling has been consistently shown up as a pussy throughout his time with us

User avatar
franksav63
Posts: 14520
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:07 pm
Location: Home - Whitechapel - Arsenal Block 6 - Twitter - @franksav63
Contact:

Re: Mustafi

Post by franksav63 »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:00 am
Frank McLintock
Chris Whyte
Tommy Caton
Tony Adams
Steve Bould
Martin Keown
Sol Campbell
Shkodran Mustafi

Anyone spot the odd one out ????
Tommy Caton is the only one who is dead? Oh. hang on.... so is Mustafi!!!

xisstential
Posts: 5214
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:33 am

Re: Mustafi

Post by xisstential »

Augie, the CH problem is a problem, but it is a stand alone problem....the bigger worry is the way the backline descends so quickly into chaos when the ball gets lost. There is nobody in charge and there is no discipline. Try find the pic online where you have 4 players surrounding Pogba with 2 United players unmarked, including the goalscorer Lingaard. How can they be so ill disciplined that, like 8 year olds, everyone just instinctively runs to where the ball is???

Of course it doesn't help having Xhaka in the midfield, who never helps them out, is always oblivious to danger and is very often the architect of the initial breakdown. Having the showboating Ramsey next to him is just the cherry on the top. What an absolute mess.

Btw is somebody going to ask big mouth Mustafi if we are still going to challenge City for the title??

User avatar
DB10GOONER
Posts: 58940
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:06 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Contact:

Re: Mustafi

Post by DB10GOONER »

Good to see a couple of glimpses of the old "everybody is shit" hysteria on this thread! :barscarf: :lol:

For me, Mustafi is PL average to goodish and is prone to brain farts. He isn't total shit. But he is not top drawer either. Then again very few defenders in the PL are, if we are being honest.

The difference is most teams have a manager and coaches that actually believe in the importance of a good defensive system and defensive discipline. We have a fucktard that believes in some fantasy mash up of The Invincibles and the Dutch Total Football style of play, and he is surrounded by yes men and /or shit coaches. :oops: :lol:

It's a clear lack of a decent defensive system and poor coaching and discipline that leads to poor decision making so often by our defenders. :roll:

A top team has defenders that can play a bit of football when required. Wenger likes his defenders to be footballers that can do a little bit of defending as a last resort - and that will always cost us over the course of a season. We often get away with it against the shit teams but the top teams can punish one mistake and win a game against the odds because of that clinical ability to punish you.

Style over substance does not win PL titles and never will. :roll:

xisstential
Posts: 5214
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:33 am

Re: Mustafi

Post by xisstential »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:52 am
Good to see a couple of glimpses of the old "everybody is shit" hysteria on this thread! :barscarf: :lol:

For me, Mustafi is PL average to goodish and is prone to brain farts. He isn't total shit. But he is not top drawer either. Then again very few defenders in the PL are, if we are being honest.

The difference is most teams have a manager and coaches that actually believe in the importance of a good defensive system and defensive discipline. We have a fucktard that believes in some fantasy mash up of The Invincibles and the Dutch Total Football style of play, and he is surrounded by yes men and /or shit coaches. :oops: :lol:

It's a clear lack of a decent defensive system and poor coaching and discipline that leads to poor decision making so often by our defenders. :roll:

A top team has defenders that can play a bit of football when required. Wenger likes his defenders to be footballers that can do a little bit of defending as a last resort - and that will always cost us over the course of a season. We often get away with it against the shit teams but the top teams can punish one mistake and win a game against the odds because of that clinical ability to punish you.

Style over substance does not win PL titles and never will. :roll:
There is no leader at the back(I presume Wenger sees himself in that role so they don't need one), there is no discipline and nobody seems to know their role when defending. And we don't have a defensive midfielder either. Look at their 3rd goal, Xhaka tracks back, sort of alongside Lingaard, but not actually marking him. There are very often individual defensive lapses but the way they descend so quickly into a collective defensive cluster f**k is almost laughable.

Wenger sees the way Mustafi lost the ball & the way Kos was muscled out by Pogba as individual errors, and they are, but it goes beyond that. When Mustafi lost the ball, in footballing terms, was nowhere near catastrophic, what followed, was. And for their 3rd goal Xhaka should have been much tighter to Lingaard, making it harder for Pogba to find him.

Wenger & Bould either don't see it, or don't want to.

General
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:34 pm
Location: London

Re: Mustafi

Post by General »

augie wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 am
xisstential wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:34 am
What goes on in our backline and midfield is so alarming. And it is EVERY game, fortunately there are only about 6 or 7 teams that can actually punish us.

On Saturday, Xhaka, facing his own goal and under pressure, offloads the ball back to Mustafi. ...who then drifts sideways from right to left but is now also coming under pressure from behind. The midfield has now disappeared and there is no one to pass to with Monreal also hiding out on the touchline and not wanting the ball either. Mustafi gets robbed of the ball and everything after that descends into chaos....there is actually a picture on line with FOUR of our defenders trying to close Pogba down, including Monreal, who leaves Lingaard completely unmarked, the ball gets played through to him and he scores. MustafI immediately limps off with a badly bruised ego.

This chaotic defending and midfield lapses are a weekly occurrence but as I said earlier there are not enough teams in the PL to punish us.

Down the line we will get badly beaten in the Europa as well. How can NOBODY at the club see what is going on with our midfield and defense???




that being said, we cannot blame coaching for kos again being bitch slapped by an opposition player :oops: How many times have we seen him thrown around like a rag doll by the likes of dogbreath at the chavs ? It is very embarrassing for a centre half to be thrown around like that - without doubt the centre back position is the one that requires more physical strength than any other position, and this weakling has been consistently shown up as a pussy throughout his time with us
I think Koscielny is an excellent defender and we are very fortunate to have a player of his calibre give the best part of his career to Wenger's asylum. He could walk into any team in the PL and I mean any team.

The issue of getting dominated physically is something we used to say about Gallas, Toure, Senderos etc.

The workload on our defenders is insane. They become midfielders when we are playing from the back and the first line of defence because the midfield offers zero protection. Defending with men behind the ball is an exception rather than the norm and even when we do it we still somehow manage to look wide open. TA6 couldn't survive in that backline.

Several times on Saturday there was no pressure in midfield, allowing Lukaku to get goal side of our defenders and gain territorial advantage. At one point Koscielny had to hack him down to stop him breaking free. Had Bellerin not got back to cover, he would've been heading for an early shower, and guess what, there was no midfielder in sight. United had Rojo, Smalling and Lindelof on the other side of the pitch. None of them is a patch of Koscielny both technically and physically yet they faced no such issues.


Squilacci is far from a world beater but I found this piece telling.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/fo ... philosophy
On a Ligue 1 show on beIN, the 35-year-old explained how he struggled as a defender at Arsenal and that he tried to speak to Wenger about it.

“It’s true a lot was expected from me when I arrived,” he explained. “But it’s always been difficult for central defenders at Arsenal.

“You can see that from before my time and after my time. The style of play was a bit like Spain’s. It was very open, and often we found ourselves defending in the middle one-on-one with the opposition attackers.

“It was never easy. It was very attacking. But that was the club’s philosophy.

“I talked about it with coach Wenger. He told me, ‘I know it’s difficult, but I want us to play like this, I want the attacking players to have more freedom and less defensive work’.”

User avatar
augie
Posts: 29393
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mustafi

Post by augie »

General wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:26 am
augie wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 am
xisstential wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:34 am
What goes on in our backline and midfield is so alarming. And it is EVERY game, fortunately there are only about 6 or 7 teams that can actually punish us.

On Saturday, Xhaka, facing his own goal and under pressure, offloads the ball back to Mustafi. ...who then drifts sideways from right to left but is now also coming under pressure from behind. The midfield has now disappeared and there is no one to pass to with Monreal also hiding out on the touchline and not wanting the ball either. Mustafi gets robbed of the ball and everything after that descends into chaos....there is actually a picture on line with FOUR of our defenders trying to close Pogba down, including Monreal, who leaves Lingaard completely unmarked, the ball gets played through to him and he scores. MustafI immediately limps off with a badly bruised ego.

This chaotic defending and midfield lapses are a weekly occurrence but as I said earlier there are not enough teams in the PL to punish us.

Down the line we will get badly beaten in the Europa as well. How can NOBODY at the club see what is going on with our midfield and defense???




that being said, we cannot blame coaching for kos again being bitch slapped by an opposition player :oops: How many times have we seen him thrown around like a rag doll by the likes of dogbreath at the chavs ? It is very embarrassing for a centre half to be thrown around like that - without doubt the centre back position is the one that requires more physical strength than any other position, and this weakling has been consistently shown up as a pussy throughout his time with us
I think Koscielny is an excellent defender and we are very fortunate to have a player of his calibre give the best part of his career to Wenger's asylum. He could walk into any team in the PL and I mean any team.

The issue of getting dominated physically is something we used to say about Gallas, Toure, Senderos etc.

The workload on our defenders is insane. They become midfielders when we are playing from the back and the first line of defence because the midfield offers zero protection. Defending with men behind the ball is an exception rather than the norm and even when we do it we still somehow manage to look wide open. TA6 couldn't survive in that backline.

Several times on Saturday there was no pressure in midfield, allowing Lukaku to get goal side of our defenders and gain territorial advantage. At one point Koscielny had to hack him down to stop him breaking free. Had Bellerin not got back to cover, he would've been heading for an early shower, and guess what, there was no midfielder in sight. United had Rojo, Smalling and Lindelof on the other side of the pitch. None of them is a patch of Koscielny both technically and physically yet they faced no such issues.


Squilacci is far from a world beater but I found this piece telling.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/fo ... philosophy
On a Ligue 1 show on beIN, the 35-year-old explained how he struggled as a defender at Arsenal and that he tried to speak to Wenger about it.

“It’s true a lot was expected from me when I arrived,” he explained. “But it’s always been difficult for central defenders at Arsenal.

“You can see that from before my time and after my time. The style of play was a bit like Spain’s. It was very open, and often we found ourselves defending in the middle one-on-one with the opposition attackers.

“It was never easy. It was very attacking. But that was the club’s philosophy.

“I talked about it with coach Wenger. He told me, ‘I know it’s difficult, but I want us to play like this, I want the attacking players to have more freedom and less defensive work’.”



Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the incident you refer to, actually start cos yet again kos was too easily pushed off the ball by lukaku ? I do like kos as a player and nobody see's the weaknesses in centre midfield more than I do (I have been complaining about the cdm position since PV4 left, and have constantly referred to it as the number 1 position of need), but the reality is that a lack of coaching and a lack of midfield protection, does not excuse how easily kos is continually muscled off the ball

General
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:34 pm
Location: London

Re: Mustafi

Post by General »

augie wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:03 pm
General wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:26 am
augie wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 am
xisstential wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:34 am
What goes on in our backline and midfield is so alarming. And it is EVERY game, fortunately there are only about 6 or 7 teams that can actually punish us.

On Saturday, Xhaka, facing his own goal and under pressure, offloads the ball back to Mustafi. ...who then drifts sideways from right to left but is now also coming under pressure from behind. The midfield has now disappeared and there is no one to pass to with Monreal also hiding out on the touchline and not wanting the ball either. Mustafi gets robbed of the ball and everything after that descends into chaos....there is actually a picture on line with FOUR of our defenders trying to close Pogba down, including Monreal, who leaves Lingaard completely unmarked, the ball gets played through to him and he scores. MustafI immediately limps off with a badly bruised ego.

This chaotic defending and midfield lapses are a weekly occurrence but as I said earlier there are not enough teams in the PL to punish us.

Down the line we will get badly beaten in the Europa as well. How can NOBODY at the club see what is going on with our midfield and defense???




that being said, we cannot blame coaching for kos again being bitch slapped by an opposition player :oops: How many times have we seen him thrown around like a rag doll by the likes of dogbreath at the chavs ? It is very embarrassing for a centre half to be thrown around like that - without doubt the centre back position is the one that requires more physical strength than any other position, and this weakling has been consistently shown up as a pussy throughout his time with us
I think Koscielny is an excellent defender and we are very fortunate to have a player of his calibre give the best part of his career to Wenger's asylum. He could walk into any team in the PL and I mean any team.

The issue of getting dominated physically is something we used to say about Gallas, Toure, Senderos etc.

The workload on our defenders is insane. They become midfielders when we are playing from the back and the first line of defence because the midfield offers zero protection. Defending with men behind the ball is an exception rather than the norm and even when we do it we still somehow manage to look wide open. TA6 couldn't survive in that backline.

Several times on Saturday there was no pressure in midfield, allowing Lukaku to get goal side of our defenders and gain territorial advantage. At one point Koscielny had to hack him down to stop him breaking free. Had Bellerin not got back to cover, he would've been heading for an early shower, and guess what, there was no midfielder in sight. United had Rojo, Smalling and Lindelof on the other side of the pitch. None of them is a patch of Koscielny both technically and physically yet they faced no such issues.


Squilacci is far from a world beater but I found this piece telling.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/fo ... philosophy
On a Ligue 1 show on beIN, the 35-year-old explained how he struggled as a defender at Arsenal and that he tried to speak to Wenger about it.

“It’s true a lot was expected from me when I arrived,” he explained. “But it’s always been difficult for central defenders at Arsenal.

“You can see that from before my time and after my time. The style of play was a bit like Spain’s. It was very open, and often we found ourselves defending in the middle one-on-one with the opposition attackers.

“It was never easy. It was very attacking. But that was the club’s philosophy.

“I talked about it with coach Wenger. He told me, ‘I know it’s difficult, but I want us to play like this, I want the attacking players to have more freedom and less defensive work’.”



Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the incident you refer to, actually start cos yet again kos was too easily pushed off the ball by lukaku ? I do like kos as a player and nobody see's the weaknesses in centre midfield more than I do (I have been complaining about the cdm position since PV4 left, and have constantly referred to it as the number 1 position of need), but the reality is that a lack of coaching and a lack of midfield protection, does not excuse how easily kos is continually muscled off the ball
The problem started further afield. Lack of press in midfield allowed Lukaku to get picked out, consequently Koscielny was caught on his wrong side and had to go for a desperate lunge to stop him breaking free. Lukaku is no pushover and would dominate most centre backs anyway especially when given territorial advantage so I'm not sure it should be used as a stick to beat Koscielny with. I've seen Cahil, Terry, Rio etc get caught in these positions but usually they can marshal defender without having to make last ditch tackles because a midfielder or defender drops to help out. I recall Mertesacker getting sent off for a similar offence 2years ago because the midfield parted like the red sea leaving him 1 on 1 with Costa.

Post Reply