Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

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sk-gtfo
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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby sk-gtfo » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:49 pm

It's all Sanchez fault:

Arsenal's stars are sick of Alexis Sanchez Daily Mail 22:38

Made me laugh - how can that be true, ok so it's daily fail so fake news anyway but we don't have any 'stars' apart from Sanchez?!.

:twisted: :roll:

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby Jumpers For Goalposts » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:33 pm



Tony Adams once famously said in a team meeting after the Blackburn defeat in 1997/98, when are you boys ( he mean the French lads) going to start playing. The rest as we know is history.
Probably without realising it you've hit the nail squarely on the head with that one statement. That " No holds barred " meeting in December 1997 is well documented but the bit that's overlooked is - even as far back as 20 years ago, it was up to the players to resolve the obvious issues. That should be the manager's job but Wenger is incapable of interventions like this.

He got away with it when he had players like Adams, Dixon, Winterburn etc. as they were astute enough to do the manager's job for him. Sadly, once they departed, Wenger brought in a succession of technically strong but mentally weak players and we have suffered this ungodly mess ever since.

It won't change until he's gone and that day cannot come quickly enough.

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Nos89
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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby Nos89 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:17 am

I think too much has been made of this in the media. Not every player has to celebrate. Given the goal came when palace were in the ascendency, maybe it was the defence getting back in position to make sure they don't concede.
The squad is fractured that's obvious but it's only palace. We should've been out of sight by that time. Maybe they've learnt not to over celebrate against teams in the relegation zone.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby Redarmy » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:30 am



Tony Adams once famously said in a team meeting after the Blackburn defeat in 1997/98, when are you boys ( he mean the French lads) going to start playing. The rest as we know is history.
Probably without realising it you've hit the nail squarely on the head with that one statement. That " No holds barred " meeting in December 1997 is well documented but the bit that's overlooked is - even as far back as 20 years ago, it was up to the players to resolve the obvious issues. That should be the manager's job but Wenger is incapable of interventions like this.

He got away with it when he had players like Adams, Dixon, Winterburn etc. as they were astute enough to do the manager's job for him. Sadly, once they departed, Wenger brought in a succession of technically strong but mentally weak players and we have suffered this ungodly mess ever since.

It won't change until he's gone and that day cannot come quickly enough.
Exactly look at the players he had then.......all Wenger was doing was looking at statistics and diets never involved in any confrontation

xisstential
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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby xisstential » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:58 am

We all know this has been a problem for a while, but last night on sky it was plain to see our team is as divided as the fans are. I chose to support Arsenal over the spuds because whilst we didn't have the same technical ability as them in the early/mid 80s there was an endearing never say die attitude. By the time we got to the late 80s with a bit of quality added we where a formidable force.

The team today just doesn't seem to understand what it means to represent Arsenal (perhaps with the exception of a rejuvenated Jack).

Add to that we have one of the best finishers in the premier league, who AW seems hell bent on pissing off by making him the first man to be taken off in almost any situation. Not to mention dropping him for no reason in a few big games earlier this season. I have already written off Sanchez and Ozil as two players only interested in fucking off to Manchester. We should be rebuilding around Laca, not making things so bad for him, that it wouldn't surprise me if he wants to leave at the end of the season.
The team spirit thing has been an issue for a while now, and can only see it getting worse because long gone are the days of a TA6/PV4 getting hold of the team and sorting it out amongst themselves. Wenger's ensured we don't have those types around here, voicing opinions or challenging his authority, so now they are left to themselves with no leader present. As for Lacazette, I just can't make my mind up. Sometimes IMO he has been rightly hauled off and virtually anonymous for long spells, but undoubtedly there have been times when Wenger's pre-planned substitution has taken place regardless of his performance. That too has been happening for donkeys and not just with Lacazette. The Ox was always guaranteed to be hauled off a couple of years back despite the fact that gormless pricks like Wally or Ramsey were allowed to be utter gash for the whole 90 minutes

Sanchez and Ozil can both fuck off now for all I care - don't want to be here, piss off then.
Every time I read another of these comments I feel like my head is going to explode. Sanchez didn't WANT to be here at this stage of the season....he did EVERYTHING he could to leave but Wenger hung on to him probably deludedly thinking we would do so well that Sanchez wouldn't want to leave anymore. Well guess what!!

The irony is, and what most fans selectively have ignored, is that without him we would be even further down the table. Wenger knows that, he's always known it, that is why he was prepared to lose him on a free....Wenger needs Sanchez...and we know, it's always about what Wenger needs.

I have said this numerous times, Sanchez brings energy to the team, he's like the energiser bunny, he is always moving, trying to make things happen....most of the others, like Ramsey & Xhaka for example, are either at half pace or walking most of the time.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby Redarmy » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:27 am

from todays Sun....

Sanchez, to be fair, has always kept his side of the bargain.

The rest of this average squad of players have not.

Arsenal have failed to make a title challenge at any point since Sanchez arrived from Barcelona in 2014.

Sanchez, obsessed with winning trophies, prioritised the Premier League over any dressing room kinship with Arsenal’s players.

That is his call, but it has come at a price as he winds down the final months of his lucrative contract in North London.

The Chile forward has never been a great one for socialising, certainly with players he regards at Arsenal as sub-standard.

He was promised the world when he left Barcelona, with Wenger convincing Sanchez that they were building a bright new team to challenge for the title.

The silly boy should have asked around.

Nobody in their right mind would sign for Arsenal if their naked ambition is to win the Premier League title.

Sanchez won six trophies at Barca, including La Liga in 2013, before he was forced out of the Nou Camp in 2014.


Thats the truth he is a winner and frustrated by the players on easy street around him....

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby augie » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:30 am

I don't see that , I think he is coming back and joining in with the pass,pass system purely to get a touch of the ball . You don't have to be lightning fast if you time your runs right. If the others don't pick him out then he will look slow. Currently give a midfielder the chance to pass to him or Ozil or Sanchez and he is always third choice. He did the unexpected by taking a shot for Mustaphi's goal , most would have passed it back to the halfway line and he set Sanchez for the second and coming short for the third took one of the back 3 out leaving Sanchez with two instead of three . Don't think he deserves the criticism he's getting.



This I agree totally with (and I also agree with nut flush's statement that lacazette is NOT a number 10) - traditionally lacazette was a striker that liked getting in behind defences running onto through balls from their midfield, but with us (because of the "style" of football we play :roll: ), he is playing with his back to goal more than anything else :x I know that he hasnt played with sanchez as long as the others and therefore hasnt fallen out with him yet, but there doesnt seem to be a good working relationship there, and I feel that it is a recognition from lacazette that sanchez is the only one willing to play the fast zippy game that every striker wants. You ask any striker and they will tell you that slow build up play will allow opposition defences more time to get tight and positionally organised - we play the type of football now that only suits our midfielders cos it is based around them making runs forward and getting loads of possession in the middle third, but the poor stikers will make runs frequently only for the pass to go backwards or sidewards, until they reach the point where they stop making the runs and we can all call them lazy :roll: :oops: :oops:

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby supergeorgegraham » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:17 am

I think this is the worst Arsenal team we have had in the Premier League. I don't see how we will finish in the top 4 again under Wenger and maybe he just shouldn't buy anymore players because he is making decent signings like kolasinac look bad after he won player of the season in his position last year.
I never thought we would be this bad under Wenger but he continues to surprise.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby augie » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:38 pm

I think this is the worst Arsenal team we have had in the Premier League. I don't see how we will finish in the top 4 again under Wenger and maybe he just shouldn't buy anymore players because he is making decent signings like kolasinac look bad after he won player of the season in his position last year.
I never thought we would be this bad under Wenger but he continues to surprise.



Wait until next august and you will be praying for a team as good as this one :lol: :lol: :oops: :oops:

If you cannot see yourself as a big club if you lose cesc and a french lesbo in the one summer, what way will we be viewed when we lose sanchez, ozil and wilshere in one window ? :oops: No half decent player will want to be even linked with the club, much less actually sign for us - we will be an absolute shambles, and the fallout will be on an apocalyptic level :cry: :cry: :cry: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby General » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:09 pm

I think this is the worst Arsenal team we have had in the Premier League. I don't see how we will finish in the top 4 again under Wenger and maybe he just shouldn't buy anymore players because he is making decent signings like kolasinac look bad after he won player of the season in his position last year.
I never thought we would be this bad under Wenger but he continues to surprise.
I'm not sure it's the worst when compared to a previous back 5 of Eboue, Senderos, Djourou, Clichy and Almunia. Add a midfield of Denilson, Song etc and this current team actually doesn't look bad. We got away with it because one or two major teams were always imploding notably Liverpool and Spurs. The league is more competitive now with the injection on TV money and teams are closer together. I would agree that this squad is one of the most imbalanced and there is no clear strategy to squad rebuilding. If you asked Wenger where he saw them in 2years he couldn't tell you. It's going to be a real disaster zone when a new manager eventually takes over.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby Jumpers For Goalposts » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:02 pm

Good post General. Too many people are forgetting that our crapiness is a long term problem. It didn't start with the current squad.

Wenger has had dreadful squads for more than a decade. The Song, Eboue, Bendtner, Denilson team was just as awful but they were carried by Fabregas and van Persie.

Before that it was the Gallas, Clichy, Almunia, Hleb team which would pass itself into oblivion and shit their pants at the first sign of any pressure.

Wenger is not a football manager - he's an accountant / consultant that got lucky by inheriting George Graham's foundations. If that sounds cruel or revisionist, just look at how he has repeated the same mistakes since the powerhouse players moved on around 2005 - 2007.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby xisstential » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:09 pm

Good post General. Too many people are forgetting that our crapiness is a long term problem. It didn't start with the current squad.

Wenger has had dreadful squads for more than a decade. The Song, Eboue, Bendtner, Denilson team was just as awful but they were carried by Fabregas and van Persie.

Before that it was the Gallas, Clichy, Almunia, Hleb team which would pass itself into oblivion and shit their pants at the first sign of any pressure.

Wenger is not a football manager - he's an accountant / consultant that got lucky by inheriting George Graham's foundations. If that sounds cruel or revisionist, just look at how he has repeated the same mistakes since the powerhouse players moved on around 2005 - 2007.
It's neither reviosinist nor cruel....Wenger got plucked from the wasteland of Japanese football & inherited probably the best backline in the world and had an open door to the French market. He then had a powerful, skilful team which I believe ran itself. I think Wenger hated the strong characters (Viera) in the team so broke it up with the plan to rebuild and be the one & only strong character in the team. And 12 years later...here we are...failure after failure after......But he is the only strong character, there he succeeded, albeit a completely unaccountable one.

As soon as Wenger realised how difficult it was he turned his, the fans & the clubs attentions to FFP, the 4th official, deflecting, building a new stadium, making money, Brexit, Sumo wrestlers.....everything but football, because he is not capable of building a Champion football team, and refuses to have anybody around him who is.
Last edited by xisstential on Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby nut flush gooner » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:10 pm

We all know this has been a problem for a while, but last night on sky it was plain to see our team is as divided as the fans are. I chose to support Arsenal over the spuds because whilst we didn't have the same technical ability as them in the early/mid 80s there was an endearing never say die attitude. By the time we got to the late 80s with a bit of quality added we where a formidable force.

The team today just doesn't seem to understand what it means to represent Arsenal (perhaps with the exception of a rejuvenated Jack).

Add to that we have one of the best finishers in the premier league, who AW seems hell bent on pissing off by making him the first man to be taken off in almost any situation. Not to mention dropping him for no reason in a few big games earlier this season. I have already written off Sanchez and Ozil as two players only interested in fucking off to Manchester. We should be rebuilding around Laca, not making things so bad for him, that it wouldn't surprise me if he wants to leave at the end of the season.
The team spirit thing has been an issue for a while now, and can only see it getting worse because long gone are the days of a TA6/PV4 getting hold of the team and sorting it out amongst themselves. Wenger's ensured we don't have those types around here, voicing opinions or challenging his authority, so now they are left to themselves with no leader present. As for Lacazette, I just can't make my mind up. Sometimes IMO he has been rightly hauled off and virtually anonymous for long spells, but undoubtedly there have been times when Wenger's pre-planned substitution has taken place regardless of his performance. That too has been happening for donkeys and not just with Lacazette. The Ox was always guaranteed to be hauled off a couple of years back despite the fact that gormless pricks like Wally or Ramsey were allowed to be utter gash for the whole 90 minutes

Sanchez and Ozil can both fuck off now for all I care - don't want to be here, piss off then.
Every time I read another of these comments I feel like my head is going to explode. Sanchez didn't WANT to be here at this stage of the season....he did EVERYTHING he could to leave but Wenger hung on to him probably deludedly thinking we would do so well that Sanchez wouldn't want to leave anymore. Well guess what!!

The irony is, and what most fans selectively have ignored, is that without him we would be even further down the table. Wenger knows that, he's always known it, that is why he was prepared to lose him on a free....Wenger needs Sanchez...and we know, it's always about what Wenger needs.

I have said this numerous times, Sanchez brings energy to the team, he's like the energiser bunny, he is always moving, trying to make things happen....most of the others, like Ramsey & Xhaka for example, are either at half pace or walking most of the time.
Your comments just show how sad football is these days. Gone are the days of "no player is bigger than the club". Sanchez and Ozil have got the club, manager and the fans by the short and curlies, that's why people are just telling them to fuck off.

With regards to Sanchez, his work rate has dropped off ridiculously this season, to the extent the likes of Ramsey are covering more ground every match. He hasn't done himself any favours this season, can you see him getting in front of Jesus/Aguero at city or Cavani/Neymar at PSG, I can't. Deep down he knows that, so if bench warming to win a league/CL medal is his ambition, good luck to him.

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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby SteveO 35 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:28 pm

We all know this has been a problem for a while, but last night on sky it was plain to see our team is as divided as the fans are. I chose to support Arsenal over the spuds because whilst we didn't have the same technical ability as them in the early/mid 80s there was an endearing never say die attitude. By the time we got to the late 80s with a bit of quality added we where a formidable force.

The team today just doesn't seem to understand what it means to represent Arsenal (perhaps with the exception of a rejuvenated Jack).

Add to that we have one of the best finishers in the premier league, who AW seems hell bent on pissing off by making him the first man to be taken off in almost any situation. Not to mention dropping him for no reason in a few big games earlier this season. I have already written off Sanchez and Ozil as two players only interested in fucking off to Manchester. We should be rebuilding around Laca, not making things so bad for him, that it wouldn't surprise me if he wants to leave at the end of the season.
The team spirit thing has been an issue for a while now, and can only see it getting worse because long gone are the days of a TA6/PV4 getting hold of the team and sorting it out amongst themselves. Wenger's ensured we don't have those types around here, voicing opinions or challenging his authority, so now they are left to themselves with no leader present. As for Lacazette, I just can't make my mind up. Sometimes IMO he has been rightly hauled off and virtually anonymous for long spells, but undoubtedly there have been times when Wenger's pre-planned substitution has taken place regardless of his performance. That too has been happening for donkeys and not just with Lacazette. The Ox was always guaranteed to be hauled off a couple of years back despite the fact that gormless pricks like Wally or Ramsey were allowed to be utter gash for the whole 90 minutes

Sanchez and Ozil can both fuck off now for all I care - don't want to be here, piss off then.
Every time I read another of these comments I feel like my head is going to explode. Sanchez didn't WANT to be here at this stage of the season....he did EVERYTHING he could to leave but Wenger hung on to him probably deludedly thinking we would do so well that Sanchez wouldn't want to leave anymore. Well guess what!!

The irony is, and what most fans selectively have ignored, is that without him we would be even further down the table. Wenger knows that, he's always known it, that is why he was prepared to lose him on a free....Wenger needs Sanchez...and we know, it's always about what Wenger needs.

I have said this numerous times, Sanchez brings energy to the team, he's like the energiser bunny, he is always moving, trying to make things happen....most of the others, like Ramsey & Xhaka for example, are either at half pace or walking most of the time.
When it gets to the stage when you're moaning and gesturing at your team mates throughout the game, and half of them don't even want to celebrate a goal with you, I don't care how fucking good he is (by the way he's been shite for at least half the games this season) - if he doesn't want to be here, piss off. Same thing happened in the last season Fabregas was here. I don't doubt that Wenger is to blame for keeping hold of him but you still represent the club.....and he acts like a spoilt c.unt half the time he plays now

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sk-gtfo
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Re: Team Spirit issues and management of Laca

Postby sk-gtfo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:29 pm

Good post General. Too many people are forgetting that our crapiness is a long term problem. It didn't start with the current squad.

Wenger has had dreadful squads for more than a decade. The Song, Eboue, Bendtner, Denilson team was just as awful but they were carried by Fabregas and van Persie.

Before that it was the Gallas, Clichy, Almunia, Hleb team which would pass itself into oblivion and shit their pants at the first sign of any pressure.

Wenger is not a football manager - he's an accountant / consultant that got lucky by inheriting George Graham's foundations. If that sounds cruel or revisionist, just look at how he has repeated the same mistakes since the powerhouse players moved on around 2005 - 2007.
Indeed and he got lucky again in that since 2011 he has had a club 'owner' who only focuses on profit rather than success, which is why he is still in a job, even now, when clearly he is well over the hill as a football manager, he passes the financial test which is all that counts.

I do think we will hit new lows next season though once Sanchez and Ozil are off, none of the best players or best young talents really respect Wenger anymore, and if he doesn't win another cup to take the heat off he will be in for an even more "hostile environment", the likes of Iwobi and Welbeck will be the replacements which puts us firmly in a midtable quality of squad.

The end is nigh for Wenger, he has destroyed his legacy and in a way it would be befitting if City also stole his 'invincibles' badge. You know what would be a really appropriate end for him?, being sacked halfway through next season and then us going on to win the EL under a caretaker manager, certainly not impossible this could happen.

:twisted:


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