€H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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StuartL
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby StuartL » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 am

To be fair I totally understand where Sid is coming from but the it sums up the club we follow that we even have to make a choice.

I want Arsenal to win Anything but it comes to something when we all know that winning a trophy just gives another excuse for Wenger to use as leverage to carry on serving up the complete and utter shit in what should always be The bread and butter of the league and other major trophies.

If we won it, it will be a major reason for him to stay on. He may well regardless but I totally get why any reason to pile more pressure on is something fans would prefer. It's fucking ridiculous but it's where we are.
Ironic that the competition which he has shown so much disdain for and dismisses as irrelevant is possibly going to quell the tide of wanting change that has beeb growing given his predicted slide down the league.

Can’t see this nightmare ever ending :banghead: Manager for life.

Like others I get no joy from victories, no pain from defeats, just waiting for it to all end -

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SteveO 35
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby SteveO 35 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:40 am

:barscarf: Those who say it makes no difference to whether he goes any time soon or "earns" another extension off the back of another cup; the only evidence we have is that he has done the latter. We can't be sure he would have stayed had he lost the finals against Hull and Chelsea.

If there's even a slim chance no trophies this season will seal his fate, I want to be given that
hope.
Not true - the 3 year extension he was given back in 2011 came on the back of 6 trophyless years and scrapping around in 4th. He's just finished outside the CL places which everyone used to assume kept him in the job and it didn't make a blind bit of difference.

If we lost 7-0 in the final and finished 7th, I guarantee he'd still be here next season
I do think that he still had a credit balance with the fans in 2011 which has evaporated year-by-year since. There was never any serious pressure on him from within the fan-base back then (though a small minority of us knew he had shot his bolt). Three years later was different. There was a consensus of opinion that he would have either been persuaded to leave or walked had we lost to Wigan in the semi or Hull in the final. The Kieran Gibbs clearance off the line at 2-0 was widely regarded as the moment that saved his job. Of course we can never prove it.....but I would have loved the chance to test it. Last season he was on the ropes in March after that wretched run of League form and the humiliation against Bayern both home and away. Not only was most of the fanbase against him, there was evidence he had powerful enemies on the board too. Again, the common consensus is that the FA Cup wins against City and Chelsea dampened any prospect that this campaign against him being given yet another extension would win the day. Again, it can never be proved that he would have left without the FA Cup win. But again, I would have loved the chance to test it.

Just look at the headline which The Gooner editor, who is the most eloquent and consistent advocate of "Wenger Out" I know - ran with in his account of the Chelsea match: "Arsene gives the fans another day out at Wembley". If this is his take on it, how do we expect the rest of our fanbase to see it, let alone our board?

So: while I take your point about 2011, I believe he has become considerably more vulnerable since then, and it is at least possible that the cups have saved his bacon. All I ask is that we get the chance to test that theory. I just fear that City's fixture congestion will make it a closer contest than it deserves to be......
Good points. He's definitely got more of the fans against him than in 2011, that is certainly true. The problem is I don't think Kroenke's opinion of him changes one way or the other - 1st or 6th, cups or no cups - he just doesn't care. He's got a track record of running underperforming, mediocre sports franchises in the US and it doesn't bother him. Arsenal finishing 5th is positive success for him compared to some of the shite he owns over there. So, I would just like to enjoy a cup win for the fans and forget about the c.unt at the helm. Will Kroenke even be there for the cup final? I doubt it

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby GoonerMuzz » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:40 pm

:barscarf: Those who say it makes no difference to whether he goes any time soon or "earns" another extension off the back of another cup; the only evidence we have is that he has done the latter. We can't be sure he would have stayed had he lost the finals against Hull and Chelsea.

If there's even a slim chance no trophies this season will seal his fate, I want to be given that
hope.
Not true - the 3 year extension he was given back in 2011 came on the back of 6 trophyless years and scrapping around in 4th. He's just finished outside the CL places which everyone used to assume kept him in the job and it didn't make a blind bit of difference.

If we lost 7-0 in the final and finished 7th, I guarantee he'd still be here next season
I do think that he still had a credit balance with the fans in 2011 which has evaporated year-by-year since. There was never any serious pressure on him from within the fan-base back then (though a small minority of us knew he had shot his bolt). Three years later was different. There was a consensus of opinion that he would have either been persuaded to leave or walked had we lost to Wigan in the semi or Hull in the final. The Kieran Gibbs clearance off the line at 2-0 was widely regarded as the moment that saved his job. Of course we can never prove it.....but I would have loved the chance to test it. Last season he was on the ropes in March after that wretched run of League form and the humiliation against Bayern both home and away. Not only was most of the fanbase against him, there was evidence he had powerful enemies on the board too. Again, the common consensus is that the FA Cup wins against City and Chelsea dampened any prospect that this campaign against him being given yet another extension would win the day. Again, it can never be proved that he would have left without the FA Cup win. But again, I would have loved the chance to test it.

Just look at the headline which The Gooner editor, who is the most eloquent and consistent advocate of "Wenger Out" I know - ran with in his account of the Chelsea match: "Arsene gives the fans another day out at Wembley". If this is his take on it, how do we expect the rest of our fanbase to see it, let alone our board?

So: while I take your point about 2011, I believe he has become considerably more vulnerable since then, and it is at least possible that the cups have saved his bacon. All I ask is that we get the chance to test that theory. I just fear that City's fixture congestion will make it a closer contest than it deserves to be......
Good points. He's definitely got more of the fans against him than in 2011, that is certainly true. The problem is I don't think Kroenke's opinion of him changes one way or the other - 1st or 6th, cups or no cups - he just doesn't care. He's got a track record of running underperforming, mediocre sports franchises in the US and it doesn't bother him. Arsenal finishing 5th is positive success for him compared to some of the shite he owns over there. So, I would just like to enjoy a cup win for the fans and forget about the c.unt at the helm. Will Kroenke even be there for the cup final? I doubt it
This is the absolute crux of the matter, Kroenke isn't interested in results or performances on the pitch, nor in silverware in the trophy cabinet. Some fans just can't seem to understand that he has no passion for the football teams performance, his only interest is in the bottom line of his business investment.

I feel this is exactly why AW has managed to amass so much power at the club over time, as long as the financial side of the club is found to be in profit then anything else is left to AW to sort out, basically he has no oversite except where financial profit/loss of the football team is concerned.

For me the only way to get Stan to take any notice is for the PLC to start taking a hit financially and lets be honest whilst season tickets are sold, day trippers are buying the other tickets and TV money is rolling in AW can balance the profit/loss margin on the pure footballing side in the transfer market exactly the way he does, and wont feel any pressure, he can effectively 'cook the books' and still come out smelling of roses.

I think the goodwill and support he gets is massively underrated by many of those who want rid of him, yes visible attendance is down but there are still 40-50000 people attending nearly every match, as for the remaining 10k at least part of that money is covered by season ticket holders not attending but the sales have already happened so there is only a minor financial hit, lets be honest ST holders dont exactly spend much in the armoury so no big financial hit there either. Watching an Arsenal match still seems to be a draw for the tourists for some reason :rubchin:

When it is reported that Arsenal have in the region of £750M assets as a business and these are rising year on year, then for an owner, who cares if a small part of the business is underperforming in a single specific aspect, as long as it is still in profit and there is no risk involved you don't have to tinker with it and gamble on it getting worse.

So as far as i'm concerned i'm going to enjoy another cup final and hope we win, because unless there is a major financial collapse over the rest of the season Stan will carry on as normal into next season and we'll continue to slip further away under our current glorious leader :banghead:

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sk-gtfo
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby sk-gtfo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:38 am

So Chavski are thinking of replacing Conte, just one season after he won the title, meanwhile at the Arsene Stanley corporation LLC. Inc. Ltd. Wenger is still safely in his job as head of accounts (err sorry manager) having not won the title in 13/14 years but as long as the company turn a net profit then everything is rosy at the bank of Kroenke club.

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BFG4
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby BFG4 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:59 am

So Chavski are thinking of replacing Conte, just one season after he won the title, meanwhile at the Arsene Stanley corporation LLC. Inc. Ltd. Wenger is still safely in his job as head of accounts (err sorry manager) having not won the title in 13/14 years but as long as the company turn a net profit then everything is rosy at the bank of Kroenke club.
The problem i have with shit like this, is how the media treats every club by different standards. I remember back when Chelsea were going to sack Mourinho, and the perceived wisdom by the journo's was that they were justified in doing so, as he had lost the dressing room. I'm no fan of Mourinho(i despise him) but funny that he was after winning the league the previous season yet there was zero problem in sacking him, but the same media don't see 14 years without a title as a problem. Remember when Man united fans were protesting Moyes(not even a season into the job) after they had untold success with Ferguson, but the media line was that they had come to expect high standards. These same Journalists call protests against Wenger as us being spoiled and ungrateful. Why are certain clubs and managers held to account, but our dickhead of a manager gets off scott free.

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sk-gtfo
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby sk-gtfo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:40 pm

The problem i have with shit like this, is how the media treats every club by different standards. I remember back when Chelsea were going to sack Mourinho, and the perceived wisdom by the journo's was that they were justified in doing so, as he had lost the dressing room. I'm no fan of Mourinho(i despise him) but funny that he was after winning the league the previous season yet there was zero problem in sacking him, but the same media don't see 14 years without a title as a problem. Remember when Man united fans were protesting Moyes(not even a season into the job) after they had untold success with Ferguson, but the media line was that they had come to expect high standards. These same Journalists call protests against Wenger as us being spoiled and ungrateful. Why are certain clubs and managers held to account, but our dickhead of a manager gets off scott free.
Possibly because like a lot of our fanbase the media buy into all this crap about we have no money, therefore we should expect to behave like a lower midtable club in the transfer market and expect very little in terms of winning major trophies.

We are not a "big club" like Chavski, even though we had won 13 titles before they had won their 2nd in 90 odd years, and we can't match billionaire Abramovich's spending, even though we have two shareholders one of which is richer than him and the other is not far behind!.

:roll: :roll:

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby GoonerMuzz » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:10 pm

So Chavski are thinking of replacing Conte, just one season after he won the title, meanwhile at the Arsene Stanley corporation LLC. Inc. Ltd. Wenger is still safely in his job as head of accounts (err sorry manager) having not won the title in 13/14 years but as long as the company turn a net profit then everything is rosy at the bank of Kroenke club.
The problem i have with shit like this, is how the media treats every club by different standards. I remember back when Chelsea were going to sack Mourinho, and the perceived wisdom by the journo's was that they were justified in doing so, as he had lost the dressing room. I'm no fan of Mourinho(i despise him) but funny that he was after winning the league the previous season yet there was zero problem in sacking him, but the same media don't see 14 years without a title as a problem. Remember when Man united fans were protesting Moyes(not even a season into the job) after they had untold success with Ferguson, but the media line was that they had come to expect high standards. These same Journalists call protests against Wenger as us being spoiled and ungrateful. Why are certain clubs and managers held to account, but our dickhead of a manager gets off scott free.
Our prawn sandwiches are way better than other clubs :wink:

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northbank123
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Re: €H£L$£A|Home|LC Semi|24th Jan|20:00

Postby northbank123 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:49 am

United got an easy ride for telling the media that Moyes had been sacked before telling him, and we’re basically applauded for sacking van Gaal within days of winning the FA Cup.


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