Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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arrgee
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by arrgee »

Bob Bayliss wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:15 pm
... the majority just want to take in a top football game in the same way that they might want to take in a West End show while they're in town. They don't care if it's Les Mis , Phantom or The Mousetrap, so long as they can say they saw a show when they were visiting London. Why do you imagine there are so many half-and-half scarves? If these visitors were Arsenal fans they wouldn't wear them.
The perfect comparison!

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NickF
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by NickF »

Bob Bayliss wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:05 pm
If Wenger stays beyond this season, I seriously predict that we will be playing in front of crowds between 20 and 35,000 for the majority of games next season.
Not a chance! We aren't this season, so no reason to suggest next season will be any different.

oaodan
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by oaodan »

Are not a lot of the current tourists in their 20s ,30s,40s and coming because they are Arsenal fans who grew up with the George Graham and 1998-2006 period. They are still attending now with memories of Rocky,Adams,Viera,Bergkamp etc. If the current shit continues for 5-10 years I think the tourist fanbase will be decimated and then you will see the mass empty seats regularly.I am involved in underage sport here and it is obvious but not surprising to see the collapse in Arsenal support amongst youngsters over past 10 years.At one time on every street you had a guy with Henry or Pires or Bergkamp on their shirt. But not now. Its unusual to see an Arsenal shirt. Kids aint stupid, they dont want to be the next Iwobi or Xhaka. If you lose out on a whole generation I presume it will be felt at The Emirates eventually.

nut flush gooner
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by nut flush gooner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:55 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:26 pm
Have any of you been to the Emirates recently (Steve and Argee?). I was chatting to 2 guys from the Czech Republic in a bar before the said Everton game, they were both on relatively low salaries but they were members of a supporters club. Despite their salaries, they see a trip to watch Arsenal as a holiday, a weekend in London taking in a match as well This is replicated not only across Europe but all over the world.

Arsenal whilst not long ago didn't tap into the potential fan base overseas now have supporters clubs everywhere from Philadelphia to Singapore. As I said in my previous post if you put your season tickets one xchange there is a very good chance a football tourist will take them. One of my mates is working overseas this year, and his two season tickets are on exchange nearly every game. For a large proportion of those games, non English fans attend.

Even in the UK, we have huge supporters clubs up north. The Manchester supporters club by way of example has 2000 members, a lot of them going to away games close to their homes but also coming to home games. I know some of them. 2000 gooners in a City where both local teams are miles ahead of us in the league, figure that out! I was talking to a bloke who came to the cup final from Aberdeen ffs!

Our support will never go to the levels we had in the 80s, when less than 20,000 turned up every other week. Times have changed and so has football.
I guess we won't know until we're shit enough. I just don't think those Czech guys, the Germans that you mentioned and the Asian tourists will find us anywhere near the same draw if we're regular also rans. Everton don't get that experience but I bet if they built a shiny new bowl holding 60000 people and had a couple of years in the CL, then they soon would have. In fact, look no further than the Scum......no tourist in their right mind would go to that old cesspit.....but the shiny new thing holding 61,000 and offering top football every week?

Nothing's forever, least of all our appeal to world supporters.
And you know why those Czech guys support Arsenal, Tomas Rosicky and Petr Cech. One of them slipped that he used to be a manure fan. It’s more than having a golden era with a lot of fans. Go on you tube and look up Arsenal cup final pubs, there where hundreds in each bar all over the world watching the FA Cup final fully decked out in Arsenal gear singing all the songs. We went 9 years with no silverware so I don’t buy that these people are all fair weather fans.

I know Swiss gooners who supported Arsenal because of Phillipe Senderos too.

Our global fan base is huge today, comfortably into the high hundreds of thousands even a few million. A lot of them see attending a game as a pilgrimage. Our location also helps, we are 10 minutes from Eurostar/Central London.

Edit, I was miles out. Try 100 million.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C._supporters

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wilko49er
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by wilko49er »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:09 pm
Thousands of season tickets holders either put their season tickets on exchange or don't bother turning up, that is the reason for the empty seats. Arsenal is still maximising their matchday revenue whether there is 40,000 or 60,000 in the ground. The season ticket waiting list is as long as ever.

There will never be a situation where we have to sell tickets at vastly discounted prices like Worst Ham. The main reason for that (and I have said this before) being that Arsenal is a huge draw for football tourists. We had football tourists try to take our seats before the Everton game just so a group of them could sit together, needless to say, we told them to fuck off, they were German and they tried to do the equivalent of getting in early and stealing the sun loungers. This is in the North Lower as well.

The club has got the fans by the short and curlies, we could have 40,000 fans not renew their season tickets and the ground would still officially sell out with JCLs and tourists.
Exactly! I am one of those mug ST holders. I dont know why really other than i love the club. I have been to 2 games in the last 2 seasons. I crazily dont want too give up my ST. A lot of stuff i put on TX doesnt sell, but the seat is sold wether occupied or not. Plans i have made too attend many a game, have gone out of the window (long term health issues). Yes numbers may drop a bit, especially as mentioned in some crappy cup games etc. But the club is minted and will continue to make money for wiggy and his minions. As i said the fanbase is too big these days. Sometimes i wish i loved and supported some grass roots club. Life would be a lot easier, expectations wise.

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sk-gtfo
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by sk-gtfo »

Interesting debate on attendances - more interesting than any of the insipid sh*t we serve up on the field actually lol.

Only time will tell who is right, I guess it might take a bit longer than I expect but I do feel attendances will suffer in the medium/long term, there is only so long fair weather fans will stick with the club and like oaodan said just look at how few 'new' young fans Arsenal have, we are becoming an irrelevant club and the consequence of that is a shrinking fan base.

The whole waiting list thing is a bit of a red herring I reckon, don't they automatically opt you in now as a member of any sort?, I know for a fact a friend of mine who is (well was at the time) a ST holder was almost being harassed into renewing with threats of being put to the back of the list, and this was at least 2 seasons back!.

There has evidently (by number of empty seats increasing) been a pattern over the last 5 years or so of less tickets being sold via TX, a lot of these ST holders must be getting fed up of throwing away £50+ a time because no one wants to see us play second rate opposition in a race for Europa league football, basically their average ticket cost per game attended is going up every year because they can't shift unwanted games to others.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by SteveO 35 »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:24 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:55 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:26 pm
Have any of you been to the Emirates recently (Steve and Argee?). I was chatting to 2 guys from the Czech Republic in a bar before the said Everton game, they were both on relatively low salaries but they were members of a supporters club. Despite their salaries, they see a trip to watch Arsenal as a holiday, a weekend in London taking in a match as well This is replicated not only across Europe but all over the world.

Arsenal whilst not long ago didn't tap into the potential fan base overseas now have supporters clubs everywhere from Philadelphia to Singapore. As I said in my previous post if you put your season tickets one xchange there is a very good chance a football tourist will take them. One of my mates is working overseas this year, and his two season tickets are on exchange nearly every game. For a large proportion of those games, non English fans attend.

Even in the UK, we have huge supporters clubs up north. The Manchester supporters club by way of example has 2000 members, a lot of them going to away games close to their homes but also coming to home games. I know some of them. 2000 gooners in a City where both local teams are miles ahead of us in the league, figure that out! I was talking to a bloke who came to the cup final from Aberdeen ffs!

Our support will never go to the levels we had in the 80s, when less than 20,000 turned up every other week. Times have changed and so has football.
I guess we won't know until we're shit enough. I just don't think those Czech guys, the Germans that you mentioned and the Asian tourists will find us anywhere near the same draw if we're regular also rans. Everton don't get that experience but I bet if they built a shiny new bowl holding 60000 people and had a couple of years in the CL, then they soon would have. In fact, look no further than the Scum......no tourist in their right mind would go to that old cesspit.....but the shiny new thing holding 61,000 and offering top football every week?

Nothing's forever, least of all our appeal to world supporters.
And you know why those Czech guys support Arsenal, Tomas Rosicky and Petr Cech. One of them slipped that he used to be a manure fan. It’s more than having a golden era with a lot of fans. Go on you tube and look up Arsenal cup final pubs, there where hundreds in each bar all over the world watching the FA Cup final fully decked out in Arsenal gear singing all the songs. We went 9 years with no silverware so I don’t buy that these people are all fair weather fans.

I know Swiss gooners who supported Arsenal because of Phillipe Senderos too.

Our global fan base is huge today, comfortably into the high hundreds of thousands even a few million. A lot of them see attending a game as a pilgrimage. Our location also helps, we are 10 minutes from Eurostar/Central London.

Edit, I was miles out. Try 100 million.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C._supporters
I still think there are two fundamental points that made them keep the faith though - 1. Champions League football which seems to be the fucking Be All and End All for every superfan out there, and which until this year was a regular occurrence but which under this manager and owner shall never return and 2. the reputation for wonderful, free flowing attacking football that was admired the world over (and that is slowly ebbing away too).

I don't doubt there are some hard core fans - met tons myself in the States - but their trips are few and far between owing to cost, unless your super wealthy. There are still tons of fans who take in the whole 'London matchday' thing and they sure as hell don't bother with West Ham or Crystal Palace.....so will they when we become mid-table shit too?

arrgee
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by arrgee »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:51 pm
There are still tons of fans who take in the whole 'London matchday' thing and they sure as hell don't bother with West Ham or Crystal Palace.....so will they when we become mid-table shit too?
Not true as far as West Ham are concerned. They play in the Olympic stadium. Which is as good as it gets for many tourists. I am going there for rugger in March and I don't even care for rugger.

Gunner Rob
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by Gunner Rob »

I can see how attendances can be maintained by the tourists in London but surely overseas fans are not buying season tickets ?

if everyone had given up their season ticket 5 years ago Wenger (and probably Kroenke) would have been long gone
this is why I always say that the season ticket holders keep Wenger in a job (whether you support him or not)

nut flush gooner
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by nut flush gooner »

Gunner Rob wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:02 am
I can see how attendances can be maintained by the tourists in London but surely overseas fans are not buying season tickets ?

if everyone had given up their season ticket 5 years ago Wenger (and probably Kroenke) would have been long gone
this is why I always say that the season ticket holders keep Wenger in a job (whether you support him or not)
The waiting list is still 10 years long, there is always someone willing to take the ticket. Plus when a season ticket holder puts his tickets one xchange, anyone can buy it that's a red member. So yes overseas fans can take these seats for one off games.

Almunia is a clown
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by Almunia is a clown »

arrgee wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:08 pm
I'm even off to Thurles during the summer. Just an excuse for drinking truth be told.
Try to get there for a Hurling match weekend, big games Munster championship, All Ireland quarter finals in Thurles get 50K plus crowds with old school terraces & proper supporters at both ends. Hurling is a great game to watch. :barscarf: Plus plenty of local boozers :cheers:

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augie
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by augie »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:12 am
Gunner Rob wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:02 am
I can see how attendances can be maintained by the tourists in London but surely overseas fans are not buying season tickets ?

if everyone had given up their season ticket 5 years ago Wenger (and probably Kroenke) would have been long gone
this is why I always say that the season ticket holders keep Wenger in a job (whether you support him or not)
The waiting list is still 10 years long, there is always someone willing to take the ticket. Plus when a season ticket holder puts his tickets one xchange, anyone can buy it that's a red member. So yes overseas fans can take these seats for one off games.



You still believe in santa clause ?? :shock: The way that season ticket waiting list scheme is meant to work is that if you are offered a season ticket and you decline, you are then put back to the bottom of the list to start again - explain to me then how I have been offered to chance to buy a season ticket 3 times in the past 4 years ? The waiting list is now a total myth and failing to sell out games when there are tickets on tx system, should tell you everything you need to know

nut flush gooner
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:21 am
nut flush gooner wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:12 am
Gunner Rob wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:02 am
I can see how attendances can be maintained by the tourists in London but surely overseas fans are not buying season tickets ?

if everyone had given up their season ticket 5 years ago Wenger (and probably Kroenke) would have been long gone
this is why I always say that the season ticket holders keep Wenger in a job (whether you support him or not)
The waiting list is still 10 years long, there is always someone willing to take the ticket. Plus when a season ticket holder puts his tickets one xchange, anyone can buy it that's a red member. So yes overseas fans can take these seats for one off games.



You still believe in santa clause ?? :shock: The way that season ticket waiting list scheme is meant to work is that if you are offered a season ticket and you decline, you are then put back to the bottom of the list to start again - explain to me then how I have been offered to chance to buy a season ticket 3 times in the past 4 years ? The waiting list is now a total myth and failing to sell out games when there are tickets on tx system, should tell you everything you need to know
That's only what I heard a few years back tbh. It may have changed, thats fair enough. It still doesn't detract that there are thousands of overseas fans coming to home games every season. Most fans are happy to take in a cat B or C game just to experience being in the ground. When you are a Slavia Prague fan and your home attendances are sub 10k, it's a big thing to come to London to support your fav PL team.

According to BBC 109,000 overseas fans visited the Emirates in 2014 with only manure being on a par, it's going to be a lot more this year. My point remains, don't think to boycott the club will hurt them, they have so many other income streams it's effect will be minimal.

arrgee
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by arrgee »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:18 am
arrgee wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:08 pm
I'm even off to Thurles during the summer. Just an excuse for drinking truth be told.
Try to get there for a Hurling match weekend, big games Munster championship, All Ireland quarter finals in Thurles get 50K plus crowds with old school terraces & proper supporters at both ends. Hurling is a great game to watch. :barscarf: Plus plenty of local boozers :cheers:
That's the plan. Tipperary v Clare in June. Given half of my family are from Clare and the other half from Tipperary perhaps I should get one of those half and half scarfs and do the full tourist thing :barscarf:

arrgee
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Re: Scum|Away|PL|10th Feb|12:30

Post by arrgee »

augie wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:21 am
The way that season ticket waiting list scheme is meant to work is that if you are offered a season ticket and you decline, you are then put back to the bottom of the list to start again - explain to me then how I have been offered to chance to buy a season ticket 3 times in the past 4 years ? The waiting list is now a total myth and failing to sell out games when there are tickets on tx system, should tell you everything you need to know
I never understood how Arsenal got 45,000 season ticket holders when back in the 1990s they wrote to me asking if I wanted one and I had never been on a waiting list. Did have a standing season ticket in 1980s but never bothered with a seated one. I know a few who have them who are always trying to sell them on. Don't think Arsenal care too much if the seat is empty or not as long as someone has paid for a seat. In fact they probably make a tidy sum in the booking fees on the re-sales.

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