General Election May 7th

[Nos89]

WTF has the Queen got to do with the election? Like it or not Royalty bring in the tourists. They have little to no influence over government. I'm more concerned over the stealth privatising of the NHS, the inequality towards fathers in this country, an antiquated benefits system that is need of reform to bring it in line with modern trends. The ever increasing cost of utilities for the whole purpose of profit making corporations e.g. water being more expensive then milk. The overpricing of fuel and the ever increasing cost of council tax when the majority of services provided by councils has been reduced. Which party is going to fix this? none of them. Ukip and farage are there for the sole purpose of distracting the electorate from the real issues by providing miss guided information on immigration.
Why, in a leading economic nation are 4 million children living below the poverty line? and why are people relying on food banks? Again, which party is going to fix these significant issues? I've yet to hear anyone speak on these subjects.

[Chippy]

I started this thread as a bit of an experiment. I really wish I hadn't.

Anyway I'll leave this here.

http://t.co/4gvnuEKflP

[the playing mantis]

I started this thread as a bit of an experiment. I really wish I hadn't.

Anyway I'll leave this here.

http://t.co/4gvnuEKflP

not that i read the daily mail, but on googling this case, yet again left wing allegations that had been rumoured by the left for years, i came across this.

littlejohn is a cock, and a swamp dweller to boot, but on this he makes some valid and interesting points. the accusers being labour activists is not insignificant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -them.html

[Chippy]

I started this thread as a bit of an experiment. I really wish I hadn't.

Anyway I'll leave this here.

http://t.co/4gvnuEKflP

not that i read the daily mail, but on googling this case, yet again left wing allegations that had been rumoured by the left for years, i came across this.

littlejohn is a cock, and a swamp dweller to boot, but on this he makes some valid and interesting points. the accusers being labour activists is not insignificant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -them.html

Seriously anybody who quotes that moron Littlejohn in defence of their arguments, well is probably like him. It is very likely that the next Lord outed will be a Labour one, but of course that will fit the right wing agenda so will be front page on the Daily Fail.

[arseofacrow]

I started this thread as a bit of an experiment. I really wish I hadn't.

Anyway I'll leave this here.

http://t.co/4gvnuEKflP

not that i read the daily mail, but on googling this case, yet again left wing allegations that had been rumoured by the left for years, i came across this.

littlejohn is a cock, and a swamp dweller to boot, but on this he makes some valid and interesting points. the accusers being labour activists is not insignificant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -them.html

"Without hard evidence"....littlejohn...really?

Wasn't it one of Brittain's own right-wing colleagues who collected evidence and presented it to Brittan himself? Then files go missing.

He must have been a plant.

[flash gunner]

For the record I think littlejohn is a *word censored*

[the playing mantis]

I started this thread as a bit of an experiment. I really wish I hadn't.

Anyway I'll leave this here.

http://t.co/4gvnuEKflP

not that i read the daily mail, but on googling this case, yet again left wing allegations that had been rumoured by the left for years, i came across this.

littlejohn is a cock, and a swamp dweller to boot, but on this he makes some valid and interesting points. the accusers being labour activists is not insignificant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -them.html

Seriously anybody who quotes that moron Littlejohn in defence of their arguments, well is probably like him. It is very likely that the next Lord outed will be a Labour one, but of course that will fit the right wing agenda so will be front page on the Daily Fail.

bet it wont be a labour lord.

hardly fair to say im like littlejohn just because i dont adhere to your fevereishly left of centre view point and use fringe sensationalist websites to support my view...oh wait i did use the daily mail...anyway as its says all completely unsubstantiated and the accusers seemigly all have an agenda. just smack of the mcalpine incident to me though. whispers that gathered pace with no foundation in fact.

[Nuggets]

Whoever gets the vote will do fook all positive with it, they are all out to feather their own nests and fook the little people

[Chippy]

I started this thread as a bit of an experiment. I really wish I hadn't.

Anyway I'll leave this here.

http://t.co/4gvnuEKflP

not that i read the daily mail, but on googling this case, yet again left wing allegations that had been rumoured by the left for years, i came across this.

littlejohn is a cock, and a swamp dweller to boot, but on this he makes some valid and interesting points. the accusers being labour activists is not insignificant.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -them.html

Seriously anybody who quotes that moron Littlejohn in defence of their arguments, well is probably like him. It is very likely that the next Lord outed will be a Labour one, but of course that will fit the right wing agenda so will be front page on the Daily Fail.

bet it wont be a labour lord.

hardly fair to say im like littlejohn just because i dont adhere to your fevereishly left of centre view point and use fringe sensationalist websites to support my view...oh wait i did use the daily mail...anyway as its says all completely unsubstantiated and the accusers seemigly all have an agenda. just smack of the mcalpine incident to me though. whispers that gathered pace with no foundation in fact.

Just google Labour peer paedophile.

[skizz_b]

DB10 I deal with terms and conditions of public and private sector employment contracts on a daily basis. There generally isn't a significant difference in pay but the ancillary benefits afforded to civil servants are exponentially more generous. Some of the stuff is impossible to justify because it's nowhere near what any private sector employer would consider offering to employees of any seniority. The reforms are over half a decade late in coming and where the workforce is unionised they are unreasonable in their complete refusal to acknowledge the fundamental need or fairness of cutbacks.

As I said with respect to attitudes, there are plenty of people on both sides of the divide who completely buck the stereotype. But the significance for me is that the management culture in the public sector is so lackadaisical that it inevitably filters down to employees who realisr they can get away with murder. If a private company had the same attitude and environment at senior level it would filter down to their workforce in exactly the same way.

I work in the Civil Service myself and I know for a fact I could be earning minimum £10k more per annum in a private sector role. I am a professional though, so at that level there is a variance of pay.

Apart from that I can pretty much agree with everything you and DB10 say about the Civil Service. For me personally you go into the public sector TO get those terms and deal with a lower pay packet (which includes a lack of bonus).

There are a lot of unaccountable idiots in the Civil Service though...wait, doesn't that happen everywhere?

[northbank123]

And it's probably true Skizz that the higher you get up the ladder, you might notice a difference in basic pay levels in favour of the private sector. Probably because the higher up you go, the more the disparity in working conditions between somebody doing the job in the private sector and not.

And in these circumstances it's - as you say - a case of a trade-off between that potential discrepancy and a) the better working conditions (especially hours and accountability) and b) other benefits like pension etc etc. I think another factor is the financial security in the public sector - Extremely generous contractual sickness pay, contractual redundancy pay and the fact that LGPS transfers on TUPE unlike all other occupational pension schemes.

DB10 the difference in your perception may be somewhat due to the vicious public sector pay cuts in Ireland since the crisis. Whereas after years of wages still increasing in the public sector God forbid if the government now tries to limit or even worse freeze pay rises.

[DB10GOONER]

And it's probably true Skizz that the higher you get up the ladder, you might notice a difference in basic pay levels in favour of the private sector. Probably because the higher up you go, the more the disparity in working conditions between somebody doing the job in the private sector and not.

And in these circumstances it's - as you say - a case of a trade-off between that potential discrepancy and a) the better working conditions (especially hours and accountability) and b) other benefits like pension etc etc. I think another factor is the financial security in the public sector - Extremely generous contractual sickness pay, contractual redundancy pay and the fact that LGPS transfers on TUPE unlike all other occupational pension schemes.

DB10 the difference in your perception may be somewhat due to the vicious public sector pay cuts in Ireland since the crisis. Whereas after years of wages still increasing in the public sector God forbid if the government now tries to limit or even worse freeze pay rises.

Your public service sounds like Oireland's was. Back in the 1970's!

There has always been better pay per grade in the private sector here, the gap just got bigger with the public sector pay cuts. Also, the public sector pay cuts were a dying government's last desperate peace offering to the private sector and media for the greed and incompetence and criminality that led to the downturn here - which ironically was caused by private sector builders, developers, and corrupt banks and obviously incompetent and criminal politicians. The smear campaign against public service workers that government launched to divide the public and private sector workers was disgraceful but it worked a treat. They were experts at divide and conquer. One of the best headlines I read at the time was "All civil servants get 800 perks" but the rag of a paper then failed to list more than flexi-time, a pension, and some travel expenses. 800 perks.

Regarding the better working conditions, whilst true in a lot of cases, it is a bit subjective. In some modern private companies like Google and Amazon in Oireland they offer conditions and benefits the public sector simply cannot get near. In many other private companies of course the conditions don't get near the public sector here. It is true though that one of the few things historically that has been useful in getting better people into the public sector is working conditions in general, but the main benefit is job security.

Regarding earlier comments about the waste and incompetence in the UK public sector; do you not have a performance management system over there? In Oireland we do. In most countries they do. You hit your targets or you get a bad rating and don't get your increment and aren't eligible for (now after the 6 year moritorium has lifted) promotion.

One other factor no one seems to consider is that often waste and so forth are dictated by stupid regulations and outdated laws. This places many public servants in the position of trying to do their job in spite of the rules and regs that should make that job easier but don't.

[Bradywasking]

DB10 The public perception of the public (civil) service i Ireland is very skewed, probably by a government driven media campaign. Most people see civil servants a doing nothing , earning reasonable pay and having infinite job security. Of course none are entirely true. Th new comers into the public service, now that there is some recruiting again, are on a paltry wage. Job security is looked on by the masses as a green card for public/civil servants to do what they want. Again not true, I saw a disciplinary matter involving public servants described on Facebook as "they are untouchable ". Not true disciplinary matter are as elsewhere, job security is safeguard against redundancy, not for indiscipline to reign.
I lost my job in 2010 after 30 years in the workforce because my former company , a renowned multi national firm, milked and used the recession to cut costs and reduce wages. There was a blatant disregard for loyalty, humanity and honesty. Our jobs are now up and running on half the wage we were on and the company are "in profit " ..If public servants have a guarantee that they will not face the nightmare I and my colleagues faced then I am very happy for them.

[DB10GOONER]

DB10 The public perception of the public (civil) service i Ireland is very skewed, probably by a government driven media campaign. Most people see civil servants a doing nothing , earning reasonable pay and having infinite job security. Of course none are entirely true. Th new comers into the public service, now that there is some recruiting again, are on a paltry wage. Job security is looked on by the masses as a green card for public/civil servants to do what they want. Again not true, I saw a disciplinary matter involving public servants described on Facebook as "they are untouchable ". Not true disciplinary matter are as elsewhere, job security is safeguard against redundancy, not for indiscipline to reign.
I lost my job in 2010 after 30 years in the workforce because my former company , a renowned multi national firm, milked and used the recession to cut costs and reduce wages. There was a blatant disregard for loyalty, humanity and honesty. Our jobs are now up and running on half the wage we were on and the company are "in profit " ..If public servants have a guarantee that they will not face the nightmare I and my colleagues faced then I am very happy for them.

All true, BWK.

So sorry to hear about your job, mate. That's just terrible. Fucking awful to work so long like that and be cast aside. It is one area where CS workers are certainly more secure, they can only be removed on disciplinary grounds.

Also, NB123 - I should clarify, there are of course lots of wasters and useless lazy fuckers still in the CS over here, but my earlier points were that the perception is skewed unless compared to a similar entity (a very large multi-department conglomerate) is used in comparison. With the new impetus behind change management thinking here the CS is trying to bring in better people and pension off the deadwood.

[goonersid]

DB10 The public perception of the public (civil) service i Ireland is very skewed, probably by a government driven media campaign. Most people see civil servants a doing nothing , earning reasonable pay and having infinite job security. Of course none are entirely true. Th new comers into the public service, now that there is some recruiting again, are on a paltry wage. Job security is looked on by the masses as a green card for public/civil servants to do what they want. Again not true, I saw a disciplinary matter involving public servants described on Facebook as "they are untouchable ". Not true disciplinary matter are as elsewhere, job security is safeguard against redundancy, not for indiscipline to reign.
I lost my job in 2010 after 30 years in the workforce because my former company , a renowned multi national firm, milked and used the recession to cut costs and reduce wages. There was a blatant disregard for loyalty, humanity and honesty. Our jobs are now up and running on half the wage we were on and the company are "in profit " ..If public servants have a guarantee that they will not face the nightmare I and my colleagues faced then I am very happy for them.

All true, BWK.

So sorry to hear about your job, mate. That's just terrible. Fucking awful to work so long like that and be cast aside. It is one area where CS workers are certainly more secure, they can only be removed on disciplinary grounds.

Also, NB123 - I should clarify, there are of course lots of wasters and useless lazy fuckers still in the CS over here, but my earlier points were that the perception is skewed unless compared to a similar entity (a very large multi-department conglomerate) is used in comparison. With the new impetus behind change management thinking here the CS is trying to bring in better people and pension off the deadwood.

You must be shittin yourself mate