Charlie Hebdo Champion of free speech or anti-muslim?

[QuartzGooner]

If it takes a legal ban, then ban the images of Muhammad.

[Rugby Gooner]

Rugby

I agree that single faith schools keep people separate.

But I think they should be allowed.

They do not have to poison anyone's mind, but exist as a recognition that there are some values and beliefs that are different.

Very tricky to enforce that they are not teaching confrontation, because textbooks can be blatantly racist, as can teachers' lessons.
School inspectors can be sent in, but any teacher could be pragmatic and teach a neutral subject whilst the inspectors are in the classroom.

And even if all pupils of every religion were forced to attend the same schools Monday - Friday in the daytimes, it would be almost impossible to prevent separate faith schools during evenings and weekends.

Hi Quartz,
My view is that if people wish to pass on their heritage and/or religious beliefs they should be totally allowed to do so, without hinderance or prejudice, in their own time,(ie: evenings and weekends). However, I also feel that formal education, under the national curriculum, should be "insulated" from ANY creeds or political manifestoes.
Not long ago, five or six muslim schools in Birmingham were put into special measures because of the hardline muslim, anti "mainstream" docorine that they were espousing. Their response to this was to immediately claim that this was an islamophobic, racist action.
Part of what makes us great is our sense of freedom and tolerance. Unfortunately, some see this as weakness and INFIDELity

[northbank123]

Far be it from me to take the sympathetic viewpoint with people who are easily offended but I have to say it's needless for cartoons to portray Mohammed just for the sake of offending Muslims. I could understand mocking aspects of the religion which are offensive to humanity - like extremism, awful treatment of women etc - but what's the need to mock the fact that they don't like their prophet pictured?

[GranadaJoe]

If portrayals of Mohammed are banned should we also ban everything that religions find offensive. Alcohol, women's uncovered hair, pork, dogs, cutting of beards, plays critical of Sikh or Hindi or Christian or Jewish figures. Afterall, the Quran doesn't prohibit depictions of the Prophet, wheres the Commandments in the Old Testament prohibit taking the Lord's name in vain and making graven images. Should we ban people working on the Sabbath or denying god or changing religion.

There is little in the world that somebody doesn't find offensive, and there's probably a religion somewhere that finds it offensive and/or prohibited.

Any ban like the one suggested is a very slippery slope.

[northbank123]

I wouldn't ban it and I didn't say that. I just find it completely unnecessary. Like with the Ched Evans care, I don't believe that clubs should be banned from signing him but I do believe that people have the right to get offended and voice their opinions.

By all means mock religious views that you find morally repugnant, such as medieval attitudes towards women or trying to impose sharia law on Western societies (to take the classic scaremongering example). By all means mock religious movements for going to extreme lengths to try and impose their customs and views on everyone.

But not liking depictions of the prophet is hardly morally offensive and isn't a huge imposition on people. A crude cartoon that's just designed to offend people is not satire in my opinion, dress it up as protecting freedom of speech if you like but it's just aimed to offend and provoke rather than be witty. I just don't see that it's such a huge impingement on our human rights that Muslims do not like their prophet being depicted.

[DarylAFC]

If it takes a legal ban, then ban the images of Muhammad.

So they win. Those minoritty of fanatics have their way.

IMO if something offends you, don't read it. Don't want to see a picture of Muhammed? Don't look at one.

[GranadaJoe]

Most mainstream religions in the modern world don't insist that non-believers adhere to their rules.

My Jewish friends have never told me to stop eating pork or working on Sunday. My Sikh friends have never told me to stop having my hair cut. My Hindi friends have never told me stop eating beef.

If Muslims don't like depictions of Mohammed (although through the centuries Muslims have used Mohammed and other humans in their art) they shouldn't make them, but don't tell the other 6 billions people in the world how to live their lives.

And don't kill innocent, unconnected people because they would like to be able to make their own life choices.

[QuartzGooner]

I understand your view that CH shouldn't portray Mohammed, and I'm sure that many people agree with you. However, all our opinions are wishful thinking without action. Do you think that depictions of Mohammed should be banned or not?

What is highlighted is why I wrote I think the images of Muhammad should be banned.
My comment can only be considered in the light of previous posts on this thread.

[QuartzGooner]

Rugby

I agree that single faith schools keep people separate.

But I think they should be allowed.

Hi Quartz,
My view is that if people wish to pass on their heritage and/or religious beliefs they should be totally allowed to do so, without hinderance or prejudice, in their own time,(ie: evenings and weekends). However, I also feel that formal education, under the national curriculum, should be "insulated" from ANY creeds or political manifestoes.
Not long ago, five or six muslim schools in Birmingham were put into special measures because of the hardline muslim, anti "mainstream" docorine that they were espousing. Their response to this was to immediately claim that this was an islamophobic, racist action.
Part of what makes us great is our sense of freedom and tolerance. Unfortunately, some see this as weakness and INFIDELity

I know that those Muslim schools in Birmingham were teaching hate and it is very worrying.
The one in Acton was teaching it too.

But Jewish schools do not teach hate, should they have to be disbanded because of what some Muslim schools do?

Where is the justice in that?

[Theoperator]

If it takes a legal ban, then ban the images of Muhammad.

but as we dont know what he looks like, nor can we cos people dont generally post pictures how can this be enforced

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

all religion is cancer but islam is like prostate cancer. no chance of recovery.

[Rugby Gooner]

Rugby

I agree that single faith schools keep people separate.

But I think they should be allowed.

Hi Quartz,
My view is that if people wish to pass on their heritage and/or religious beliefs they should be totally allowed to do so, without hinderance or prejudice, in their own time,(ie: evenings and weekends). However, I also feel that formal education, under the national curriculum, should be "insulated" from ANY creeds or political manifestoes.
Not long ago, five or six muslim schools in Birmingham were put into special measures because of the hardline muslim, anti "mainstream" docorine that they were espousing. Their response to this was to immediately claim that this was an islamophobic, racist action.
Part of what makes us great is our sense of freedom and tolerance. Unfortunately, some see this as weakness and INFIDELity

I know that those Muslim schools in Birmingham were teaching hate and it is very worrying.
The one in Acton was teaching it too.

But Jewish schools do not teach hate, should they have to be disbanded because of what some Muslim schools do?

Where is the justice in that?

I just think that if ALL faith schools were banned, no one religion could say that they were being singled out

[GranadaJoe]

It may be considered that some religious schools don't preach hate, but I do think that their disadvantages outweigh their advantages. They're obviously good for the religion but are bad for society. They separate people and seek to brainwash the children.

As late as the late-70s my Catholic friend was being taught that all Protestants go to hell.

It's a difficult situation, but should we allow parents to have their children taught Creationism as fact, ot that homosexuality is evil, that uncorns, giants and the dead walked the earth?
It wouldn't be acceptable to teach them that the world is flat or that the Sun revolves around the Earth, so why allow other nonsense to be preached?

[augie]

If it takes a legal ban, then ban the images of Muhammad.

So they win. Those minoritty of fanatics have their way.

IMO if something offends you, don't read it. Don't want to see a picture of Muhammed? Don't look at one.

And that for me is the bottom line

On here every day people mock and take the piss out of other nationalities but nobody suggests murdering people over it Those lunatics have, by their actions, brought more publicity to that magazine and they will without doubt win financially as a result, so you tell me who wins here. Last year this cartoon took the piss out of the pope and the catholic religion but nobody reacted like this - do the muslims feel that they are the only ones that are exempt the laws of the land ? When these mad b.astards are in their own countries then they can carry out the punishments as their laws and religion allow, but when they are in somebody else's countries then they should be made respect the laws of that country and only a tiny percentage of countries tolerate murder in the name of any god. A neighbour of mine was working in Dubai a couple of years ago and went on the piss and met some English tart (aren't they all ? ) who was equally sizzled and on the way back to her place things got a bit steamy in the back of the cab - the taxi driver called the cops and they were arrested and were brought to trial where they were sentenced to 3 months in a Dubai jail. My point is that in their countries the rest of us must respect the local laws and beliefs, but likewise when they come into a more civilised/moderate country they should respect the laws of its land and terrorism and murdering are not allowed

I cant understand how some people are trying to explain/defend the outrage that muslims felt and how it led to this terrorist attack Any religion that condones the right to murder another human being, deserves zero respect in my opinion. Any individual that buys into a religion to the point that they would murder someone or would support someone who murdered someone, doesn't deserve to breathe another gasp of air on this earth and I don't care what race or religion that applies to.

[GranadaJoe]

I've just watched scenes of protests in countries around the world over the cartoons. I don't think for a minute that those carrying the, "those that insult the prophet must be killed" banners saw any irony in them. It reminds me of the old 'kill for peace' T-shirts.