The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

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Remain or leave

Remain
30
37%
Leave
51
63%
 
Total votes: 81

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SPUDMASHER
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by SPUDMASHER »

Real Leavers! That's an interesting concept. I suppose the others who voted for it were not real leavers then? If that's the case let's have a vote again based on real leavers only!

There are plenty of hand car washes around and they're largely run by criminal enterprises that use modern slavery and the threat of harm to families back in their home countries to ensure the staff work. Dealing with this issue is much more simple than trying to manage tax income etc. The simple answer is stop using them and they'll go away. the criminal gangs running these things have only one thing in mind......making money. As long as the lazy idle Brit continues to use these services they'll continue to provide them. we control our own destiny in that respect and have nobody to blame but ourselves.
I work for a government run public sector organisation. I recently did a course about modern slavery and how massive it is in the UK. I was shocked at the examples I saw and they go way beyond car washes.
These businesses do largely pay their taxes. It is in their interest to do so as it ensures that they continue to operate. It is difficult to prove the modern slavery with them because of the wall of silence that surrounds them. They are able to continue to operate because they comply with the tax requirements.

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by A11M11 »

I am sure that the business does pay their tax but the workers maybe dont ,if as I said they only declare working for so long and then claim their top ups .
By real leavers I mean all those that did vote that way , unfortunately they are being led by people that did not and that's why I feel their voice is not being heard.
Lets face it a simple question has been turned into a dogs breakfast by the many factions still fighting for their slice of cake.
Now before I get inundated with posts proving how difficult things are and it's not that simple , I would argue that the question was simple but the answer is not. Once the question was answered it was incumbent on all to work out the best way forward instead of trying to either undermine the process or just change the result to their advantage.

nut flush gooner
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by nut flush gooner »

A11M11 wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:51 am
I am sure that the business does pay their tax but the workers maybe dont ,if as I said they only declare working for so long and then claim their top ups .
By real leavers I mean all those that did vote that way , unfortunately they are being led by people that did not and that's why I feel their voice is not being heard.
Lets face it a simple question has been turned into a dogs breakfast by the many factions still fighting for their slice of cake.
Now before I get inundated with posts proving how difficult things are and it's not that simple , I would argue that the question was simple but the answer is not. Once the question was answered it was incumbent on all to work out the best way forward instead of trying to either undermine the process or just change the result to their advantage.
So one of the reasons you voted for Brexit, was you don't like all these car washes that keep popping up hiring illegal workers and not paying tax.

With regards to claiming working tax credit, and I am sure this is what you are talking about you need to have a national insurance number. You cannot simply stick your finger up in the air and say you earn x can I have y WTCs please. You also need to be working for a minimum of 30 hours a week, so they can't just simply say I am part-time. There still is so much ignorance in this thread about how this country really works.

Spudmasher makes a valid point, if you don't like private car washes you don't have to use them. But I suspect a large amount of the population do (including brexiteers), so they are not going to disappear, are they.

There is a problem with slave labour in this country, but it's no different to any other developed economy. It's up to the government to deal with this. Leaving the EU won't solve the problem.


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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by A11M11 »

Online shopping was the death of that one. It was a manufacturer's exhibition centre. The public went and looked saw the price and went home and compared with Amazon ,paid and had it delivered.

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by A11M11 »

So one of the reasons you voted for Brexit, was you don't like all these car washes that keep popping up hiring illegal workers and not paying tax.

You take examples too literally. I don't use them however many do .
I am well aware of the money laundering aspect to the gang masters having supplied them legally but I am also aware that the workers are on the system too but this is just one little niche product. There are probably loads about that I don't come into contact with.
I have stated long ago on this thread that I have not got a problem with immigration but feel it needs to be controlled which is the one factor that free movement cannot give you. I also look at United Kingdom PLC and know that if we need employees for a certain trade then if we have'nt got our own , then by all means import them but only them and their immediate families . Don't as we have just open the door and allow everyone to come whether they bring anything useful or not.
During the 1960's just after De Gaulle's famous "Non" to the UK's joining the common market , I went and lived in Spain, I was an immimgrant I suppose but I worked had a skill they wanted , earned money and my employer took money from my wages to pay my dues. I did it for two years, then came back to Britain. I missed both the Leeds and Swindon matches and had to rely on El Pais and Vanguardia for the results and the occasional Daily Mirror 3 days later if a tourist left one behind. So it was possible to travel work and live abroad before the E.U and it will be again after.

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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by Gunner Rob »

Sir Martin Donnelly, who left his role as permanent secretary to Liam Fox's Department of International Trade last year has said that 60% of UK trade was either with the EU or the countries it had trade agreements with.

Any divergence from Brussels rules would deal a blow to British services which would not be compensated for through deals with nations like the US, he added.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "You're giving up a three-course meal, which is the depth and intensity of our trade relationships across the European Union and partners now, for the promise of a packet of crisps in the future if we manage to do trade deals outside the European Union which aren't going to compensate for what we're giving up.

"You just have to look at the arithmetic - it doesn't add up I'm afraid."


I still fail to understand how Brexiteers do not see this.
Ok you don't like how things are now - but why do you want to make things even worse in the future ???

Brexiteers are traitors to the country. Any true patriot would never leave the EU.

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by A11M11 »

Oh dear another confirmed Europhile wheeled out to make what in itself is a good headline grabbing quote.
Having studied at Oxford and then economics in Bruges and Paris he is well engrossed in the E.U project. He left the government service nearly a year ago but has taken all this time to comment.
As for patriotism the definition of one striving for their countries independance , as in the patriots that slung the British out of America did. How is tying ourselves to the ECJ and the whims of the other 27 states conducted by Germany and France and over paying for the privilage construed as patriotic.
Apart from money which is all you seem to be worried about.

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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by SPUDMASHER »

I think it is harsh to label people on either side of the argument as being unpatriotic. Patriotism shows itself in many forms and is essentially a concept. Some people believe it is patriotic to leave and others to remain. The referendum was never about patriotism and in honesty all it does is make the process even more emotive than it needs to be.
I personally prefer to see it this way :- People voted on the basis of a lack of information, misrepresented information and their own personal circumstances. We all voted on what we think is best for ourselves and the country. I voted remain. It was the right thing to do and I stand by that. I was on the losing side of the vote and I accept the result and consequences. I'm seriously unhappy about it but that's life. People voted for a variety of reasons. Some for sound economic factors and some (I would suggest many) for reasons learned from the Daily Mail and Facebook. I just think that more people who voted to leave were found among the latter contingent of voters. I said from day one that the average person in the UK does not have the intelligence or capacity to vote on an issue of such magnitude. The referendum should never have been considered.


I have spent the last 30 years working in the private sector business (until I moved into pubsec last year). I've traded across the world but largely within Europe. I have a better than average understanding of international trade having been in the thick of it for most of my career. From my perspective leaving the EU is a massive mistake. We gain far more than we lose in our trade agreements with the EU.
Many people that voted to leave were influenced by the figures on immigration and by what they see around themselves in their daily lives. Immigration from within the EU is 100% proven to be a contributor not a drain on the government coffers. The only issue with immigration is that the increase in population has not been reflected in the increase of public services. That's nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, that's austerity. Don't confuse the two issues.

My biggest fear is that we'll be left with all the rules and regulations; all the obligations and costs and all the influence that people despise so much, but no say in anything! I am absolutely convinced that will be the case and until we have a definite outcome nothing will change my mind.

I only hope that those who voted out for reasons of prejudice and xenophobia are the first to suffer the effects.

Gunner Rob
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by Gunner Rob »

A11M11 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:43 pm
Oh dear another confirmed Europhile wheeled out to make what in itself is a good headline grabbing quote.
Having studied at Oxford and then economics in Bruges and Paris he is well engrossed in the E.U project. He left the government service nearly a year ago but has taken all this time to comment.
As for patriotism the definition of one striving for their countries independance , as in the patriots that slung the British out of America did. How is tying ourselves to the ECJ and the whims of the other 27 states conducted by Germany and France and over paying for the privilage construed as patriotic.
Apart from money which is all you seem to be worried about.
not just for me personally - I am concerned that on the whole the country will all get poorer, and that can't be a good thing going forward.

it is not just about the money though, it is much better for our national security to stay in the EU.
Winston Churchill would have said as much.

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Herd
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by Herd »

Nearly all statistics that are produced are made up by the people who wish to use therm for their own ends.
Anyone can make a case and very few are ever questioned or verified ,businessmen and politicians know this well,as I do.
In modern timer fake news is big business,be it weapons of mass destruction or the negative effect of Brexit.
There is no right or wrong for Brexit but there are ways of handling the negotiations that are right and wrong and I believe the aim of the current government is to fuck it up so that we eventually stay in !

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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by Allgunsblazin »

The stakes have never been so high for the EU!.
Merkel is finding life tough and has softened her rhetoric, Mayhem is just about in office and will over the next few days be put under immense pressure from Oddbin Corbin...
Exciting times ahead.... :fencing:

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by A11M11 »

Corbyns latest effort is a thinly disguised attempt at getting another election. He is trying to distabilise the talks with Brussels with his behind the scenes talks with Barnier and Junker and now trying to woo Soubry and Clarke. However it is not about Europe it's about getting power here to borrow funds to nationalise everything he can and put the country back to the 60's . His stance on the Irish border is to play into the hands of his Sinn Fein friends and get a united Ireland by the back door.
One has to remember that in the 2015 election prior to the referendum Ukip polled nearly 13% of the vote but only got 1 seat whereas the Lib dems got 8 seats with just on 8% of the vote . Nearly 4 million voted for UKIP but got no representation then and none again now. These are the disenfranchised and when you add in the labour and Tory voters that want to leave it becomes a majority as proven by the result.
Herd's right T May has been next to useless as her heart is not really in it . Brexit could easily be a disaster for the country but only because of the way it has been handled .

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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by SPUDMASHER »

I agree, Corbyn is playing the system to get himself into number 10. The only thing I wish these politicians would understand is that when they do succeed they're not in power.....they're in service!

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Post by A11M11 »

Would be nice but as has been proved they believe that they know best and despite a clear instruction they are fighting tooth and nail to assert their own will on the electorate.

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