The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[nut flush gooner]

The reason you get a "shitty attitude" is because whenever you post something it is without substance. The latest thing being that GDP graph. I asked you to explain what it means, to date you haven't bothered replying citing that you would get abuse if you tried. Therefore, I can only assume you don't really know what the graph means, what it symbolises and it's relationship with us leaving the EU.

If you wan't to have a constructive debate and post a link, at least have some of your own thoughts so we can all either agree or disagree with them. Just saying the economy hasn't gone down means nothing!

Are you honestly surprised that Brexiteers get labelled in a derogatory way. It's not a very nice feeling is it, think about how immigrants in this country feel when all they want to do is earn a crust, support their families and yes contribute to the economy.

Right ive fallen for it. Im guessing you want me to explain why i think that graph is important/relevant well here goes.......

We were told if we voted Brexit the economy would immediately shrink and go into recession. As the graph shows GDP hasnt changed in the 2 quarters since the vote and is the same as the quarter before it. Now i believe for a country to go into recession it has to have 2 consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. This hasnt happened so we were either lied to or the forecasters were just wrong. Now Rob has a good point about the thought that we would start the leaving proceedings immediately and maybe this is what those doomsday predictions were based on.

No abusive posts just plain opinions. Im not saying you're too stupid to understand or even wrong im saying factually so far nothing has changed maybe it will long term maybe it wont. Who knows

Right ok it's great that you've looked up what a technical recession is, but my point is did you do any such research before we voted. If you didn't and I don't just mean the economic predictions which I accept are open to debate, then how where you in a position to make an informed decision.

And as we are debating on a level of understanding. How can you say that the economy is fine when you don't know the impact of leaving the EU. If leaving the EU results in GDP of 1.5% as opposed to 2% for staying in, then you can't say we are better off out can you?

Look at economic growth in places like China, India and the US. We are light years behind and the only way we can offset any harm leaving the EU does to our country is to jump into bed with all of these countries. We have already seen what an ode Trump really is, the Indians want us to open up our borders to their citizens and China will be a tough nut to crack.

[flash gunner]

Firstly i didn't look anything up

Secondly before i voted i considered the things that were important to me.

Thirdly i can say the economy is doing ok (right now) when im comparing it to the doomsday predictions of an instant recession which quite frankly is way off the mark

[REB]

thanks to brexit i was able to get 250 of your english pounds for 300 euros which is about 40 quid more then then i would have got last season

[nut flush gooner]

Firstly i didn't look anything up

Secondly before i voted i considered the things that were important to me.

Thirdly i can say the economy is doing ok (right now) when im comparing it to the doomsday predictions of an instant recession which quite frankly is way off the mark

And therein I rest my case your honour. So you admit you didn't do any research you just went with your own view of the world, as did many other brexiteers and more recently trumpeteers. It was nothing to do with what's best for this country, it was basically you looking at things with a closed perspective (note I am not calling you prejudiced) rather than really taking a proper look at the issues that matter.

There's a great article in the BBC about the demographics of brexiteers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

If I summarise this without the link I am accused of being ageist or other things.

[flash gunner]

No i researched it, tried to stay away from things totally biased one way or the other, looked at things from both sides decided what i thought was the correct thing, my decision , my vote

Like most things data and stats only take you so far. It can tell you a general age/educational level of certain voters but it doesnt tell you everything, lets face it wasnt Denilson the best passer in the history of Arsenal Football Club if you look at stats alone

[GoonerMuzz]

Nutty, you are a hypocrite, you say that other people haven't done research on reasons to leave the EU but every single argument you put forward is based on the economy.

I can't remember you putting forward a single argument around any of the other multitude of reasons people voted to leave the EU and until you can put forward lucid arguments on immigration, freedom of movement, border controls, sovereignty, federalisation of the EU, centralisation of power, unaccountability of two levels of European Government, defence spending and EU budgets to name but a few you really shouldn't be trolling others

[StuartL]

My vote for out was based on a couple of things

1 - we pay more into the pot than we get back,which is unsustainable, particularly with other countries lining up to feed from the trough.

2- in every town there are people sleeping rough, ex servicemen on the breadline, pensioners going cold and hungry.

3 - our emergency services are at breaking point, hospitals and ambulances particularly.

What nobody has adequately explained to me is how We can afford to help refugees, but not our own.

[olgitgooner]

Olgit - ok fair enough you are entitled to your opinions.

For a glimpse into the impoverished future of the UK you should probably watch the BBC news report on the NHS though.

Money that could have been spent on the NHS is instead being spent on Brexit. Madness.

I can't find any BBC report which says NHS money is being spent on Brexit. Have you got a link please Rob?

there isnt any link - its just that the BBC led their main news last night with the dire state of the NHS. This worsening state will get worse after Brexit.

My point is that instead of wasting time and billions of pounds that is required to take us out of the EU this time and money would be better spent on things that actually matter such as the NHS.

The trouble is people have become so brainwashed into believing that immigrants are the cause of all the problems in the UK, that the bigger picture is being missed.

Sorry Rob, but you can't seriously expect to make the sweeping statement that £billions are being spent on Brexit instead of the NHS and get away with it

You also assert that we have been brainwashed into "believing that immigrants are the cause of all the problems in the U.K.". Thankfully the vast majority of the UK are actually capable of rational judgement. The Jeremy Kyle subculture is an insignificant minority.

[Gunner Rob]

My vote for out was based on a couple of things

1 - we pay more into the pot than we get back,which is unsustainable, particularly with other countries lining up to feed from the trough.

2- in every town there are people sleeping rough, ex servicemen on the breadline, pensioners going cold and hungry.

3 - our emergency services are at breaking point, hospitals and ambulances particularly.

What nobody has adequately explained to me is how We can afford to help refugees, but not our own.

1 - you really think we will get a better deal out of the EU? There is already talk of the EU asking us for £60 billion just to leave.

2 - well done for voting to make these people poorer. with the weakening pound imports will cost more, meaning rising prices in the shops (and thats even if we get good trade deals) who are going to look after all these people anyway now it will be harder to use migrants from the EU?

3 - I would love you to tell me how voting for Brexit is going to help the NHS. The Brexit gang have already said that the £350 million a week for the NHS after Brexit was all lies. The NHS is currently on the verge of collapse - you only have to watch any news channel this week to see that. The government is however not making any more money available, instead they are cutting funding. This will accelerate after Brexit and it is highly likely that the NHS will be privatised in the future

The foreign aid budget is only 0.7% of the UKs gross national income and dont forget that these refugees are often coming from countries whcich have absolutely nothing.

[Gunner Rob]

Olgit - ok fair enough you are entitled to your opinions.

For a glimpse into the impoverished future of the UK you should probably watch the BBC news report on the NHS though.

Money that could have been spent on the NHS is instead being spent on Brexit. Madness.

I can't find any BBC report which says NHS money is being spent on Brexit. Have you got a link please Rob?

there isnt any link - its just that the BBC led their main news last night with the dire state of the NHS. This worsening state will get worse after Brexit.

My point is that instead of wasting time and billions of pounds that is required to take us out of the EU this time and money would be better spent on things that actually matter such as the NHS.

The trouble is people have become so brainwashed into believing that immigrants are the cause of all the problems in the UK, that the bigger picture is being missed.

Sorry Rob, but you can't seriously expect to make the sweeping statement that £billions are being spent on Brexit instead of the NHS and get away with it

You also assert that we have been brainwashed into "believing that immigrants are the cause of all the problems in the U.K.". Thankfully the vast majority of the UK are actually capable of rational judgement. The Jeremy Kyle subculture is an insignificant minority.

ok fair enough. prove otherwise then.

[StuartL]

My vote for out was based on a couple of things

1 - we pay more into the pot than we get back,which is unsustainable, particularly with other countries lining up to feed from the trough.

2- in every town there are people sleeping rough, ex servicemen on the breadline, pensioners going cold and hungry.

3 - our emergency services are at breaking point, hospitals and ambulances particularly.

What nobody has adequately explained to me is how We can afford to help refugees, but not our own.

1 - you really think we will get a better deal out of the EU? There is already talk of the EU asking us for £60 billion just to leave.

2 - well done for voting to make these people poorer. with the weakening pound imports will cost more, meaning rising prices in the shops (and thats even if we get good trade deals) who are going to look after all these people anyway now it will be harder to use migrants from the EU?

3 - I would love you to tell me how voting for Brexit is going to help the NHS. The Brexit gang have already said that the £350 million a week for the NHS after Brexit was all lies. The NHS is currently on the verge of collapse - you only have to watch any news channel this week to see that. The government is however not making any more money available, instead they are cutting funding. This will accelerate after Brexit and it is highly likely that the NHS will be privatised in the future

The foreign aid budget is only 0.7% of the UKs gross national income and dont forget that these refugees are often coming from countries whcich have absolutely nothing.

The EU is a selfabsorbed entity, it exists to look after itself - exorbitant costs associated with its beurocracy, US and Germany and France prop it up, without us,I doubt that Germany and France will happily take on extra and the whole thing collapse within a few years.

( Would you be wlling to pay your neighbours mortgage ?
If so for how long ?
What if another neighbour lost their job and also needed a hand out ? )

My point was that if we weren't busy paying out benefit to the Romanians and Lithuanians, ( used as they are very high numbers of each in Ipswich ) we may be able to properly fund other services - NHS, Schools, etc.

[nut flush gooner]

Nutty, you are a hypocrite, you say that other people haven't done research on reasons to leave the EU but every single argument you put forward is based on the economy.

I can't remember you putting forward a single argument around any of the other multitude of reasons people voted to leave the EU and until you can put forward lucid arguments on immigration, freedom of movement, border controls, sovereignty, federalisation of the EU, centralisation of power, unaccountability of two levels of European Government, defence spending and EU budgets to name but a few you really shouldn't be trolling others

The reason I have predominantly commented on the economy, is because it is the most important factor in relation to our membership of the EU.

To call me a hypocrite just shows how much you actually have read what I said on the subject. I made some quite lengthy posts about immigration, and how it was proven that the effect of migration over the last 20 years has been a net benefit to this country i.e. Migrants put more into the economy than they take out.

Our borders are secure, how many terrorist attacks have there been in this country since the refugee crisis started? With regards to a federal Europe, yes I agree there are issues that need addressing but for fucks sake we still pass our own laws through parliament. Are you suggesting perhaps that the EU would take over that role if we remained a member state, if you are then I have only one word to say to that, bollocks.

With regards to EU spending again I have constantly referred to the £285m that the leave campaign referred to. Well that has gone up in smoke hasn't it? Not forgetting that the actual cost of leaving the EU is estimated at anywhere between £10 and £60 bn. Then you have the impact of trying to sort a free trade deal with the EU, we are going for a hard brexit it will be a bitter divorce, We have already seen European leaders say we will not get any favourable treatment, that may make it look like being outside the EU is a rosy proposition.

I have never said that being in the EU was a perfect situation for our country, but when you genuinely look at the pros and cons of staying or leaving there are so many reasons we shouldn't put our countries future in jeopardy. Please don't ask me to repeat myself for the 15th time on this.

By the way give me one European Law that has affected you or you're family in a negative way. And I don't care for the shape of bananas!

Finally to call me a troll lol. Are you having a Gary Neville moment .

[Gunner Rob]

Excellent summary Nutflush - the more you look at the implications of a hard Brexit and the deal the UK currently has with the EU, the more you realise how stupid Brexit is.

Stuart - I dont quite get some of your points but I see you are taking the popular line that the EU is likely to collapse. Why ?
Any reasons for this ? I dont really see why the largest trading area in the world will suddenly fall apart just because we leave them.

you go on about benefits for migrants, but what about the contribution to our economy?
take the NHS for example - you might have seen on the news this week that waiting times are the longest in the history of the NHS.
Well to reduce those times you need more staff, and staff from the EU have managed to keep staffing levels adequate in recent years.

you might be interested to know that since June 23rd the number of nurses from the EU registering to work in the NHS has fallen by 90%.
the implications you will notice in the coming years, but don't for a minute think that the NHS is going to improve, it will significantly worsen.

[A11M11]

The NHS is the flag ship for the reason for controlled immigration , If we can get Merkyl, Junker etc to agree to May's proposal for a mutual protection of E.U stroke U.K. migrants there would be no problem. However it is they that are dragging their feet on this. There has never been problems with importing those that we need but we can't and should not be open house to all and sundry.

[StuartL]

Excellent summary Nutflush - the more you look at the implications of a hard Brexit and the deal the UK currently has with the EU, the more you realise how stupid Brexit is.

Stuart - I dont quite get some of your points but I see you are taking the popular line that the EU is likely to collapse. Why ?

Because without our (significant) contribution to the pot, the others have to put more in to continue to bail out the rest. Will Germany and France happily pick up our contribution between them - cos the rest of the EU sure cant as they are all receiving more than they put in.


Any reasons for this ? I dont really see why the largest trading area in the world will suddenly fall apart just because we leave them.

you go on about benefits for migrants, but what about the contribution to our economy?
take the NHS for example - you might have seen on the news this week that waiting times are the longest in the history of the NHS.
Well to reduce those times you need more staff, and staff from the EU have managed to keep staffing levels adequate in recent years.

Migrants with a skill set that is valued is of course not a problem, they come here to work, to contribute etc. Australia have a points system that works for them don't they.

Those camped at Calais, for example were attempting to come to the land of milk and honey - they were perfectly safe in France (and indeed in whichever European country they gatecrashed into) but chose to attempt to get to good old Blighty..........because they have been told we are soft as shit and its a free for all who can get in. What valued contribution do you think they would make to our economy ?

you might be interested to know that since June 23rd the number of nurses from the EU registering to work in the NHS has fallen by 90%.
the implications you will notice in the coming years, but don't for a minute think that the NHS is going to improve, it will significantly worsen.

The NHS has been falling apart for years due to successive governments and only now are they going to charge people form other countries who come here just for NHS treatment, about 10 -15 years too late.

Like with Wenker, the ordinary man in the street has just about had enough - time for change, and if it means a period of belt tightening so be it.

It seems to me its the ones who holiday 4 times a year, have a second home, share portfolio who are the ones complaining - to jo public they already have next to nothing, so have little to lose.