It's all a load of Cannonballs in here! This is the virtual Arsenal pub where you can chat about anything except football. Be warned though, like any pub, the content may not always be suitable for everyone.
Gunner Rob wrote:Excellent summary Nutflush - the more you look at the implications of a hard Brexit and the deal the UK currently has with the EU, the more you realise how stupid Brexit is.
Stuart - I dont quite get some of your points but I see you are taking the popular line that the EU is likely to collapse. Why ?
Because without our (significant) contribution to the pot, the others have to put more in to continue to bail out the rest. Will Germany and France happily pick up our contribution between them - cos the rest of the EU sure cant as they are all receiving more than they put in.
Any reasons for this ? I dont really see why the largest trading area in the world will suddenly fall apart just because we leave them.
you go on about benefits for migrants, but what about the contribution to our economy?
take the NHS for example - you might have seen on the news this week that waiting times are the longest in the history of the NHS.
Well to reduce those times you need more staff, and staff from the EU have managed to keep staffing levels adequate in recent years.
Migrants with a skill set that is valued is of course not a problem, they come here to work, to contribute etc. Australia have a points system that works for them don't they.
Those camped at Calais, for example were attempting to come to the land of milk and honey - they were perfectly safe in France (and indeed in whichever European country they gatecrashed into) but chose to attempt to get to good old Blighty..........because they have been told we are soft as shit and its a free for all who can get in. What valued contribution do you think they would make to our economy ?
you might be interested to know that since June 23rd the number of nurses from the EU registering to work in the NHS has fallen by 90%.
the implications you will notice in the coming years, but don't for a minute think that the NHS is going to improve, it will significantly worsen.
The NHS has been falling apart for years due to successive governments and only now are they going to charge people form other countries who come here just for NHS treatment, about 10 -15 years too late.
Like with Wenker, the ordinary man in the street has just about had enough - time for change, and if it means a period of belt tightening so be it.
It seems to me its the ones who holiday 4 times a year, have a second home, share portfolio who are the ones complaining - to jo public they already have next to nothing, so have little to lose.
That's not correct about charging people from other countries to get treatment on the NHS. We do charge but we are not very good at recovering our costs, I have seen articles where it has been estimated £225 million has been recovered out of £500 million due. The "man in the street" can't see any further than the headline foreigners don't pay for healthcare in this country. The deficit of £275 million represents less than 0.2% of the total NHS budget in the fiscal year 2015/16, an irrelevant amount but in principle it should be paid/collected.
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Gunner Rob wrote:Excellent summary Nutflush - the more you look at the implications of a hard Brexit and the deal the UK currently has with the EU, the more you realise how stupid Brexit is.
Stuart - I dont quite get some of your points but I see you are taking the popular line that the EU is likely to collapse. Why ?
Because without our (significant) contribution to the pot, the others have to put more in to continue to bail out the rest. Will Germany and France happily pick up our contribution between them - cos the rest of the EU sure cant as they are all receiving more than they put in.
Any reasons for this ? I dont really see why the largest trading area in the world will suddenly fall apart just because we leave them.
you go on about benefits for migrants, but what about the contribution to our economy?
take the NHS for example - you might have seen on the news this week that waiting times are the longest in the history of the NHS.
Well to reduce those times you need more staff, and staff from the EU have managed to keep staffing levels adequate in recent years.
Migrants with a skill set that is valued is of course not a problem, they come here to work, to contribute etc. Australia have a points system that works for them don't they.
Those camped at Calais, for example were attempting to come to the land of milk and honey - they were perfectly safe in France (and indeed in whichever European country they gatecrashed into) but chose to attempt to get to good old Blighty..........because they have been told we are soft as shit and its a free for all who can get in. What valued contribution do you think they would make to our economy ?
you might be interested to know that since June 23rd the number of nurses from the EU registering to work in the NHS has fallen by 90%.
the implications you will notice in the coming years, but don't for a minute think that the NHS is going to improve, it will significantly worsen.
The NHS has been falling apart for years due to successive governments and only now are they going to charge people form other countries who come here just for NHS treatment, about 10 -15 years too late.
Like with Wenker, the ordinary man in the street has just about had enough - time for change, and if it means a period of belt tightening so be it.
It seems to me its the ones who holiday 4 times a year, have a second home, share portfolio who are the ones complaining - to jo public they already have next to nothing, so have little to lose.
That's not correct about charging people from other countries to get treatment on the NHS. We do charge but we are not very good at recovering our costs, I have seen articles where it has been estimated £225 million has been recovered out of £500 million due. The "man in the street" can't see any further than the headline foreigners don't pay for healthcare in this country. The deficit of £275 million represents less than 0.2% of the total NHS budget in the fiscal year 2015/16, an irrelevant amount but in principle it should be paid/collected.
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Have to agree. Explain yourself StuartL you communist wanker!
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Nothing , I have never worried about what others earn as long as I was happy with my lot. However that isn't necessarily the mainstream thought process. 4 holidays and a second home highlights the social divide which is at the base of this political argument.
Gunner Rob wrote:Excellent summary Nutflush - the more you look at the implications of a hard Brexit and the deal the UK currently has with the EU, the more you realise how stupid Brexit is.
Stuart - I dont quite get some of your points but I see you are taking the popular line that the EU is likely to collapse. Why ?
Because without our (significant) contribution to the pot, the others have to put more in to continue to bail out the rest. Will Germany and France happily pick up our contribution between them - cos the rest of the EU sure cant as they are all receiving more than they put in.
Any reasons for this ? I dont really see why the largest trading area in the world will suddenly fall apart just because we leave them.
you go on about benefits for migrants, but what about the contribution to our economy?
take the NHS for example - you might have seen on the news this week that waiting times are the longest in the history of the NHS.
Well to reduce those times you need more staff, and staff from the EU have managed to keep staffing levels adequate in recent years.
Migrants with a skill set that is valued is of course not a problem, they come here to work, to contribute etc. Australia have a points system that works for them don't they.
Those camped at Calais, for example were attempting to come to the land of milk and honey - they were perfectly safe in France (and indeed in whichever European country they gatecrashed into) but chose to attempt to get to good old Blighty..........because they have been told we are soft as shit and its a free for all who can get in. What valued contribution do you think they would make to our economy ?
you might be interested to know that since June 23rd the number of nurses from the EU registering to work in the NHS has fallen by 90%.
the implications you will notice in the coming years, but don't for a minute think that the NHS is going to improve, it will significantly worsen.
The NHS has been falling apart for years due to successive governments and only now are they going to charge people form other countries who come here just for NHS treatment, about 10 -15 years too late.
Like with Wenker, the ordinary man in the street has just about had enough - time for change, and if it means a period of belt tightening so be it.
It seems to me its the ones who holiday 4 times a year, have a second home, share portfolio who are the ones complaining - to jo public they already have next to nothing, so have little to lose.
That's not correct about charging people from other countries to get treatment on the NHS. We do charge but we are not very good at recovering our costs, I have seen articles where it has been estimated £225 million has been recovered out of £500 million due. The "man in the street" can't see any further than the headline foreigners don't pay for healthcare in this country. The deficit of £275 million represents less than 0.2% of the total NHS budget in the fiscal year 2015/16, an irrelevant amount but in principle it should be paid/collected.
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Have to agree. Explain yourself StuartL you communist wanker!
It was based on people ( someone on here but can't find the quote) was worried that holiday prices would increase and that house prices would fall.
They were more.concerned about that, than what might be better for the country as a whole.
Some only have their own selfish concerns at heart.
A11M11 wrote:What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Nothing , I have never worried about what others earn as long as I was happy with my lot. However that isn't necessarily the mainstream thought process. 4 holidays and a second home highlights the social divide which is at the base of this political argument.
What? The social divide is a reflection on two types of people, those who are genuinely socially deprived (eg disabled, mentally ill etc) and those who consider themselves working class but are not educated enough, or do not have the motivation/inclination to improve their lives. Quite frankly I couldn't give two hoots for the latter.
If people work their nuts off, in lots of cases more than 50 hours a week then why shouldn't they have the right to have a nice holiday (or 4) and/or buy a second home. They pay taxes like anyone else, and they also pay tax on their rental homes. What it boils down to is nothing but jealousy by people who can't be arsed to get off their back sides and improve their lot.
Remember a lot of people that have these sorts of lifestyles, come from deprived backgrounds. Never knock someone who does well for themselves in life.
Gunner Rob wrote:Excellent summary Nutflush - the more you look at the implications of a hard Brexit and the deal the UK currently has with the EU, the more you realise how stupid Brexit is.
Stuart - I dont quite get some of your points but I see you are taking the popular line that the EU is likely to collapse. Why ?
Because without our (significant) contribution to the pot, the others have to put more in to continue to bail out the rest. Will Germany and France happily pick up our contribution between them - cos the rest of the EU sure cant as they are all receiving more than they put in.
Any reasons for this ? I dont really see why the largest trading area in the world will suddenly fall apart just because we leave them.
you go on about benefits for migrants, but what about the contribution to our economy?
take the NHS for example - you might have seen on the news this week that waiting times are the longest in the history of the NHS.
Well to reduce those times you need more staff, and staff from the EU have managed to keep staffing levels adequate in recent years.
Migrants with a skill set that is valued is of course not a problem, they come here to work, to contribute etc. Australia have a points system that works for them don't they.
Those camped at Calais, for example were attempting to come to the land of milk and honey - they were perfectly safe in France (and indeed in whichever European country they gatecrashed into) but chose to attempt to get to good old Blighty..........because they have been told we are soft as shit and its a free for all who can get in. What valued contribution do you think they would make to our economy ?
you might be interested to know that since June 23rd the number of nurses from the EU registering to work in the NHS has fallen by 90%.
the implications you will notice in the coming years, but don't for a minute think that the NHS is going to improve, it will significantly worsen.
The NHS has been falling apart for years due to successive governments and only now are they going to charge people form other countries who come here just for NHS treatment, about 10 -15 years too late.
Like with Wenker, the ordinary man in the street has just about had enough - time for change, and if it means a period of belt tightening so be it.
It seems to me its the ones who holiday 4 times a year, have a second home, share portfolio who are the ones complaining - to jo public they already have next to nothing, so have little to lose.
That's not correct about charging people from other countries to get treatment on the NHS. We do charge but we are not very good at recovering our costs, I have seen articles where it has been estimated £225 million has been recovered out of £500 million due. The "man in the street" can't see any further than the headline foreigners don't pay for healthcare in this country. The deficit of £275 million represents less than 0.2% of the total NHS budget in the fiscal year 2015/16, an irrelevant amount but in principle it should be paid/collected.
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Have to agree. Explain yourself StuartL you communist wanker!
It was based on people ( someone on here but can't find the quote) was worried that holiday prices would increase and that house prices would fall.
They were more.concerned about that, than what might be better for the country as a whole.
Some only have their own selfish concerns at heart.
It was me that said a weaker pound would affect our spending power overseas. That isn't being selfish it's fact. Most people at the very least like a holiday in somewhere like Spain including the working classes, if anything it affects those on lower incomes more. I don't think people who have 4 holidays a year are in the slightest bit perturbed about going abroad. You are misquoting me or anyone else that came out with a similar statement.
A11M11 wrote:What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Nothing , I have never worried about what others earn as long as I was happy with my lot. However that isn't necessarily the mainstream thought process. 4 holidays and a second home highlights the social divide which is at the base of this political argument.
What? The social divide is a reflection on two types of people, those who are genuinely socially deprived (eg disabled, mentally ill etc) and those who consider themselves working class but are not educated enough, or do not have the motivation/inclination to improve their lives. Quite frankly I couldn't give two hoots for the latter.
so basically you have no sympathy for people who can't afford university or higher education?
believe it or not, some people would say there isn't much social mobility in this country
StuartL wrote:
The NHS has been falling apart for years due to successive governments and only now are they going to charge people form other countries who come here just for NHS treatment, about 10 -15 years too late.
Like with Wenker, the ordinary man in the street has just about had enough - time for change, and if it means a period of belt tightening so be it.
It seems to me its the ones who holiday 4 times a year, have a second home, share portfolio who are the ones complaining - to jo public they already have next to nothing, so have little to lose.
That's not correct about charging people from other countries to get treatment on the NHS. We do charge but we are not very good at recovering our costs, I have seen articles where it has been estimated £225 million has been recovered out of £500 million due. The "man in the street" can't see any further than the headline foreigners don't pay for healthcare in this country. The deficit of £275 million represents less than 0.2% of the total NHS budget in the fiscal year 2015/16, an irrelevant amount but in principle it should be paid/collected.
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Have to agree. Explain yourself StuartL you communist wanker!
It was based on people ( someone on here but can't find the quote) was worried that holiday prices would increase and that house prices would fall.
They were more.concerned about that, than what might be better for the country as a whole.
Some only have their own selfish concerns at heart.
It was me that said a weaker pound would affect our spending power overseas. That isn't being selfish it's fact. Most people at the very least like a holiday in somewhere like Spain including the working classes, if anything it affects those on lower incomes more. I don't think people who have 4 holidays a year are in the slightest bit perturbed about going abroad. You are misquoting me or anyone else that came out with a similar statement.
Were you the tall man in the sketch with Ronnie Barker & Ronnie Corbet ?
"I look down on him, he is working class"
From the leafy suburbs in Hertfordshire or Surrey you may not be quite as in touch with the lower class as you think.
It is after all them that have families of Romainains/ Lithuanians now as neighbours or are intimidated by large groups on the corners of their streets
There are plenty who dream of having a holiday but decide that paying the gas and eating to be more important to them surviving till the next payday.
What? The social divide is a reflection on two types of people, those who are genuinely socially deprived (eg disabled, mentally ill etc) and those who consider themselves working class but are not educated enough, or do not have the motivation/inclination to improve their lives. Quite frankly I couldn't give two hoots for the latter.
I well that proves it ,
You really are self obsessed .
nut flush gooner wrote:
That's not correct about charging people from other countries to get treatment on the NHS. We do charge but we are not very good at recovering our costs, I have seen articles where it has been estimated £225 million has been recovered out of £500 million due. The "man in the street" can't see any further than the headline foreigners don't pay for healthcare in this country. The deficit of £275 million represents less than 0.2% of the total NHS budget in the fiscal year 2015/16, an irrelevant amount but in principle it should be paid/collected.
What's wrong with having 4 holidays and a second home if you work hard to get it?
Have to agree. Explain yourself StuartL you communist wanker!
It was based on people ( someone on here but can't find the quote) was worried that holiday prices would increase and that house prices would fall.
They were more.concerned about that, than what might be better for the country as a whole.
Some only have their own selfish concerns at heart.
It was me that said a weaker pound would affect our spending power overseas. That isn't being selfish it's fact. Most people at the very least like a holiday in somewhere like Spain including the working classes, if anything it affects those on lower incomes more. I don't think people who have 4 holidays a year are in the slightest bit perturbed about going abroad. You are misquoting me or anyone else that came out with a similar statement.
Were you the tall man in the sketch with Ronnie Barker & Ronnie Corbet ?
"I look down on him, he is working class"
From the leafy suburbs in Hertfordshire or Surrey you may not be quite as in touch with the lower class as you think.
It is after all them that have families of Romainains/ Lithuanians now as neighbours or are intimidated by large groups on the corners of their streets
There are plenty who dream of having a holiday but decide that paying the gas and eating to be more important to them surviving till the next payday.
the thing is though before you said that the lower class have nothing to lose from Brexit.
well the way I see it the only people have nothing to lose are those that live on the streets.
Brexit is not going to make the lower class richer, only the rich will benefit.
You will find that Brexit makes the vast majority of people poorer, and that the lower class will be worst affected.
Thats what I have been banging on about for months on here.
Forget holidays, it will be a question of getting enough to eat. I actually saw people fighting over discounted food items in my local supermarket yesterday. welcome to the future of the UK.
DB10GOONER wrote:
Have to agree. Explain yourself StuartL you communist wanker!
It was based on people ( someone on here but can't find the quote) was worried that holiday prices would increase and that house prices would fall.
They were more.concerned about that, than what might be better for the country as a whole.
Some only have their own selfish concerns at heart.
It was me that said a weaker pound would affect our spending power overseas. That isn't being selfish it's fact. Most people at the very least like a holiday in somewhere like Spain including the working classes, if anything it affects those on lower incomes more. I don't think people who have 4 holidays a year are in the slightest bit perturbed about going abroad. You are misquoting me or anyone else that came out with a similar statement.
Were you the tall man in the sketch with Ronnie Barker & Ronnie Corbet ?
"I look down on him, he is working class"
From the leafy suburbs in Hertfordshire or Surrey you may not be quite as in touch with the lower class as you think.
It is after all them that have families of Romainains/ Lithuanians now as neighbours or are intimidated by large groups on the corners of their streets
There are plenty who dream of having a holiday but decide that paying the gas and eating to be more important to them surviving till the next payday.
the thing is though before you said that the lower class have nothing to lose from Brexit.
well the way I see it the only people have nothing to lose are those that live on the streets.
Brexit is not going to make the lower class richer, only the rich will benefit.
You will find that Brexit makes the vast majority of people poorer, and that the lower class will be worst affected.
Thats what I have been banging on about for months on here.
Forget holidays, it will be a question of getting enough to eat. I actually saw people fighting over discounted food items in my local supermarket yesterday. welcome to the future of the UK.
Utter bollocks you got idiots fighting over discounted Polaroid TV's (yes Polaroid) on black Friday 2013....... You go on about Brexit not taking affect yet then you post that. Make your mind up and stop being so dramatic
The lower paid have had their wages hit by unskilled uncontrolled immigration this is a fact, many of whom are eastern European live 8 in a house to keep costs down allowing them earn next to nothing and this is why many of the lower paid feel they will be better off out of Europe, they may be wrong but i understand how they might feel
and stop being so dramatic 
