The Reason vs Superstition Thread

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DB10GOONER
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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby DB10GOONER » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:13 pm

Very interesting thread. I study the Bible and have a lot of questions and opinions. .

Bible studies in itself is an interesting topic. Do you also study the many gospels and writings that were eventually excluded from the Bible. The Gospels of Thomas, Peter, Mary etc ? Someone described the Bible as a heavily edited Compendium rather than a book.
The problem with any religious text is that ultimately it is written by and interpreted by man with all his inconsistencies, doubts, fears and prejudicies.

There are certain religions which over the years, and even now, take the word of 'God' as a reason to commit unspeakable acts but in reality it is purely the human interpretation of books written mainly by men in less advanced ages that cause an inordinate amount of grief to people around the world.

Religion works for many people on different spiritual levels but the problem is that far too many people in this day and age use it to justify their innate prejudice and hatreds.

Worryingly rather than seeing a drop in hatred due to 'religion', although too often this is purely an excuse, we are seeing an increase. :banghead:
All true. But remember you could replace the word "religion" with either "politics" or "globalisation" or "business" and most of it would be true as well. People kill people. People fuck over other people. It's what a lot of our species does best, no matter what the source material is that "inspires" them. :|

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby arseofacrow » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:46 am

Very interesting thread. I study the Bible and have a lot of questions and opinions. .

Bible studies in itself is an interesting topic. Do you also study the many gospels and writings that were eventually excluded from the Bible. The Gospels of Thomas, Peter, Mary etc ? Someone described the Bible as a heavily edited Compendium rather than a book.
The problem with any religious text is that ultimately it is written by and interpreted by man with all his inconsistencies, doubts, fears and prejudicies.

There are certain religions which over the years, and even now, take the word of 'God' as a reason to commit unspeakable acts but in reality it is purely the human interpretation of books written mainly by men in less advanced ages that cause an inordinate amount of grief to people around the world.

Religion works for many people on different spiritual levels but the problem is that far too many people in this day and age use it to justify their innate prejudice and hatreds.

Worryingly rather than seeing a drop in hatred due to 'religion', although too often this is purely an excuse, we are seeing an increase. :banghead:
All true. But remember you could replace the word "religion" with either "politics" or "globalisation" or "business" and most of it would be true as well. People kill people. People fuck over other people. It's what a lot of our species does best, no matter what the source material is that "inspires" them. :|
The Dublin Tourist Guide?

:D Happy new year mate.

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GranadaJoe
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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby GranadaJoe » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:50 am

Pope Francis, a less terrible than usual Pope, has said that it's better for someone to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic.

If he's right there's going to be a lot of space in heaven.

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GranadaJoe
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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby GranadaJoe » Tue May 23, 2017 1:18 pm

RIP those who died in Manchester last night..What religion demands the slaughter of kids enjoying themselves ?


No religion does, mate. These murdering filth that claim to be Muslims are not. They follow some twisted evil bastardised version of that religion and kill more Muslims than non-believers world wide.

I didn't want to risk being disrespectful and continue a debate on the RIP thread, especially after such a terrible atrocity, but to say that no religion demands the slaughter of innocents is wrong. The Bible is full of accounts of God directly (the Slaughter of the Innocents), and his followers, slaughtering children, babies, pregnant mothers and the infirm. The lowest count from the Bible shows God killing nearly 400,000 people with his own hand and a total of c.2 million on his command. In fact when Joshua failed to kill to kill the children in Jericho, God was angry and sent him back in to finish the job.

The Koran has over 500 specific references to violence to be inflicted on non-believers etc, and there are stories in it supporting the killing of children.

It's wishful thinking to suggest that these people are not Muslim, particularly as we don't have any details of yesterday's attacker. However, if, like the majority of the recent attackers across Europe and elsewhere, he turns out to be from a Muslim family, who was brought up in a Muslim culture, studying Islam, who practised his religion and prayed in a Mosque and who claimed to be Muslim, I think we have to accept that they are what they say they are, not what we wish they were.

If we look across the Muslim world, we see atrocities committed by governments and groups, on non-believers, the mildest of dissenters and on Muslims from other sects, on a daily basis.
Additionally, there is a worrying level of support for the beliefs and actions of these terrorists among the general Muslim population. There are c.1.3 billion Muslims, The vast majority have a negative view of ISIS, but research shows at least 50 million (a maybe double that) believe ISIS is a good thing. Many, many more see justification in suicide bombings and over half want government by Sharia law.
To consider that these terrorists are a handful of loonies is a dangerous misunderstanding.

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby northbank123 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:22 pm

A religion is ultimately just a jumble of stories, rules and guidelines which have been written down over the centuries.

I don't really buy into religions being inherently peaceful or evil. Unfortunately people interpret their chosen religion in different ways, none more so than Islam.

So I don't think that Islam is inherently evil. However, I also don't agree that it is inherently peaceful. Sadly, there is an active minority who interpret the religion in this extreme way and who support the commission of these barbaric acts. And they say that the moderate Muslims don't represent true Islam in exactly the same way that moderate Muslims say ISIS isn't Islam.

Which of course brings me round to the deafening silence and failure of imams and Muslim communities to assist in rooting out these extremists. There aren't separate mosques for extremists and moderates, they mingle together in their religious and social community and sadly the Muslim population at large seem to decide that they don't oppose extremism strongly enough to help root it out. Seems to be a secretive approach which is demanded by the community elders.

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby OneBardGooner » Fri May 26, 2017 4:37 pm

Religion is for someone who doesn't have the Courage to Believe in Whom and What They Are, Someone Who Neither has The Heart Wisdom Nor Knowing of Self, Without the Ability to Laugh at Themselves Louder Than Any Other. And so by adopting a Religion They Give All Their Personal Power Over to Another or Some Cause That May Not Even Exist and Thereby Giving Themselves a Life of Excuses When Life and The World Do Not Go How They Think or Hope It Should, Even Up To and Beyond Their Own Death.

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GranadaJoe
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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby GranadaJoe » Sat May 27, 2017 9:12 am

An interesting article from today's Independent. I've read similar analysis elsewhere. It's very strange that no governments point fingers at Saudi.
There's more to the article on the Indy website.

This approach of not blaming Muslims in general but targeting “radicalisation” or simply “evil” may appear sensible and moderate, but in practice it makes the motivation of the killers in Manchester or the Bataclan theatre in Paris in 2015 appear vaguer and less identifiable than it really is. Such generalities have the unfortunate effect of preventing people pointing an accusing finger at the variant of Islam which certainly is responsible for preparing the soil for the beliefs and actions likely to have inspired the suicide bomber Salman Abedi.

The ultimate inspiration for such people is Wahhabism, the puritanical, fanatical and regressive type of Islam dominant in Saudi Arabia, whose ideology is close to that of al-Qaeda and Isis. This is an exclusive creed, intolerant of all who disagree with it such as secular liberals, members of other Muslim communities such as the Shia or women resisting their chattel-like status.


What has been termed Salafi jihadism, the core beliefs of Isis and al-Qaeda, developed out of Wahhabism, and has carried out its prejudices to what it sees as a logical and violent conclusion. Shia and Yazidis were not just heretics in the eyes of this movement, which was a sort of Islamic Khmer Rouge, but sub-humans who should be massacred or enslaved. Any woman who transgressed against repressive social mores should be savagely punished. Faith should be demonstrated by a public death of the believer, slaughtering the unbelievers, be they the 86 Shia children being evacuated by bus from their homes in Syria on 15 April or the butchery of young fans at a pop concert in Manchester on Monday night.

The real causes of “radicalisation” have long been known, but the government, the BBC and others seldom if ever refer to it because they do not want to offend the Saudis or be accused of anti-Islamic bias. It is much easier to say, piously but quite inaccurately, that Isis and al-Qaeda and their murderous foot soldiers “have nothing to do with Islam”. This has been the track record of US and UK governments since 9/11. They will look in any direction except Saudi Arabia when seeking the causes of terrorism. President Trump has been justly denounced and derided in the US for last Sunday accusing Iran and, in effect, the Shia community of responsibility for the wave of terrorism that has engulfed the region when it ultimately emanates from one small but immensely influential Sunni sect. One of the great cultural changes in the world over the last 50 years is the way in which Wahhabism, once an isolated splinter group, has become an increasingly dominant influence over mainstream Sunni Islam, thanks to Saudi financial support.

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby A11M11 » Sat May 27, 2017 2:18 pm

Good post, the Wahabbi sect was spoken about on question time by a Muslim girl , who suggested closing all Mosques with Saudi funding. Doubt she will get far though as all the arms deals prop up the western economy.

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby StuartL » Sat May 27, 2017 8:58 pm

Religion is for someone who doesn't have the Courage to Believe in Whom and What They Are, Someone Who Neither has The Heart Wisdom Nor Knowing of Self, Without the Ability to Laugh at Themselves Louder Than Any Other. And so by adopting a Religion They Give All Their Personal Power Over to Another or Some Cause That May Not Even Exist and Thereby Giving Themselves a Life of Excuses When Life and The World Do Not Go How They Think or Hope It Should, Even Up To and Beyond Their Own Death.
A bit wordy for my liking, but on the whole I concur

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby GoonerMuzz » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:00 pm

In terms of Islam we have an unfortunate predilection to look at the Muslims we know ourselves and see them as true Muslims, unfortunately we have it wrong. Most of the Muslims we know would be seen as Apostates in the greater part of the Islamic world.

Islam is not a forgiving religion, it never has been. Even amongst their own sects there has been massive slaughter throughout the centuries and this continues even in this day and age.

You only have to look at the human rights abuses carried out in countries such as Saudi, Indonesia, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc to see that our understanding of Islam is accutely skewed by the Western Muslims we know ourselves who in the main are decent people.

We have to stop ignoring this inconvenient truth much as it may go against our personal beliefs, Islam amongst its 'True' followers is responsible for murder, rape, torture and many more nefarious intolerant practices even against its own people. Government under the true tenets of the Qurran and Sharia law is a disgusting breach of humanity and civility yet it occurs on a daily basis in many of the Islamic countries around the world and we choose to ignore it.

I am sick of people saying this is not true Islam because when you sit down and take a long hard look at the world this type is Islam is what is taught and adhered to in much of the Muslim world outside the west, and there are many more of them than there are Westernised Muslims. Until we recognise and accept this we cannot move forward and deal with it.

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GranadaJoe
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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby GranadaJoe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:57 pm

I know some people say religion is 'only a belief', but it has real consequences.

Roy Moore, just elected republican candidate for the Senate for the great state of Alabama has called homosexuality, "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God upon which this nation and our laws are predicated". He has also likened it to bestiality.

He has said that the various attacks on America as well as rape and murder "are happening because we have forgotten God".

Also, "there is no such thing as evolution"

And, "God is the only source of law, liberty and government"

Can't wait for him to be elected. Science classes could be interesting.

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Re: The Reason vs Superstition Thread

Postby OneBardGooner » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:26 am

Just watch the 4 episodes of "The State" on Channel 4 (catch-up on 4oD) and it'll tell you almost everything you need to know about I.S.I.S (That bunch of cowardly fuckks who rape and sell women and children and a whole lot of other evil stuff...all in the name of their so-called god that is).

Put any one of their (so-called) jihad warriors one to one as in mano a mano on a saturday night - no tools/weapons - just guts and fists with yer average regular outside the Highfields pub in Ely, Cardiff and see that M'Fukka shyte his pants and run away.

:evil:


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