I am fully aware of what it was like growing up as an Arsenal fan in the 70/80s just chose not got get involved in what was going on in those days. Having an Arsenal fan killed by the ICF meant that I went to a lot less football games when I was younger but I am sure it was like that for a lot of kids. By the time I started work and had my own money to do what I wanted, I had a season ticket from 1988 until this present day. I remember terrace culture, and whilst I don't approve of causing trouble I do accept a lot of what Arsenal fans did in those days was in self defence.Herd wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:27 pmIf you've been ill and in hospital and have had to recover then I'm genuinely sorry . I wouldn't wish illness on my real enemies let alone a fellow gooner who I've had silly spats with .
I hope you are recovering and getting better for you and your families sake.
Since you asked I got my degree in later life ,left schooling at a level/ond stage as I supported myself leaving home at 18 and my passion was Arsenal and went everywhere . I got in to the rougher parts of life because when I was young Arsenals away support was woeful in the extreme. Going away was dangerous and you would often get picked off by vultures . I counted 87 people at west brom ffs and our so called leader and his pals left us at half time,30 odd terrified kids ,Imagine that .I got us out but Id had enough . . I don't like violence ,never have but I like it even less when its done to me.So I started running coaches for the youngsters of which I was one . Our little group had black guys who would routinely be picked on by OB and racist fans and didn't like to travel ,it was that bad ,plus, Turks, Greeks, Nepalese Irish and English . We took no shit and yes that did lead to more than 1 fracas but that's life . By the early 80's things changed and our away support grew enough to stop doing them. I use the moniker because the Herd grew out of those lads some of whom were 14 at the time. Many so called normals, Arsenal people who used to go away in those dark days were very grateful because we took the heat off them ,and we took them back to the station or got them on buses b4 we left if things got rough.
A large amount of those guys went on to do good things with their lives ,and nearly all have kids who they made dam sure would never get involved in such shit .I have 2 sons who both went to uni, they have never been in any trouble of any sort .
I have taken exception to your arrogance and blindness ,but I have never said I know the answers to what is a very complicated issue but I do believe in the long term we are better of out because of the corrupt structure of the Eu juggernaut as it now stands and have done for years. To get involved in a real discussion its easier to do in person , posting bits n bobs on tinternet wont do and as Ive found out only entrenches peoples positions.
I disagree with a lot of my pals on Brexit and Wenger but we still love each other and respect our different views .
I like you are very worried about the current mess since the referendum and we could well suffer for years if our idiot politicians screw it up. In the past our country was run by civil servant mandarins who would ease and temper the drastic effects of silly ideological politicians but nowadays government's use consultants whose only aim is to get rich at our expense ! They certainly aren't doing a good job . Get well and be lucky !
Going onto the EU referendum, it's going down as just about the biggest fuck up in modern times in my opinion. It's all very well blaming politicians (and yes the Tories are making a pigs ear out of this), but the people voted so accountability needs to be shared.
Economics aside the Europeans are now playing the Ireland card in terms of hard borders, which to me is a bit below the belt given the amount of time it took to get harmony in Northern Ireland. However, you can in a way see where they are coming from, we want control of our borders therefore this shouldn't be any different. But it is, and they really are turning the screw by suggesting NI should adhere to free movement of people/customs etc. They are pretty much saying that NI and Rep of Ireland should become one and the same. I am not so sure the DUP are/will very happy about that. Whilst I don't want to sound sensationalist, it could unravel all the work that lead to peace in NI following the Good Friday Agreement.
The worst thing about the referendum is that it has divided the country at all levels, never mind about the consequences of leaving the EU our country has taken a seriously backward step.