Don't ever ever ever fall for the mantra we have outspent City over the last 1,3, 5 or whatever years. I was invited to an AST meeting to discuss FFP with NicK Harris an investigative sports journo, and what got us to the stage where City have 115 charges pending.Retro Gunner wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:50 pmViv Andersons Tache wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:44 pmi was at the littlewood league cup final when we blew it v Luton in 88. i’ve always thought the competition is a load of bollocks and a distraction if i’m honest. The reason city have won it so many times recently is they have so much talent in reserve and can just chuck in the reserves and bash everyone anyway. Don’t think it helped getting 2 london sides away but i don’t care really as its a total distraction to the priorities .Retro Gunner wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:14 pmViv Andersons Tache wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:01 pmOk I think the question is a good one so I’ll answer but first harping on about the 700 million. This is a joke. You do realise that between 2009 to 2019 city spent 1.5 billion on players and this was before the vast recent inflation whilst we had wenger running the club into the ground. They are now up on ffp because of this. Look at their bench at the weekend. There’s 250 million in players they signed on their subs bench! Give that to Arteta and he’ll get you a title, trying to suggest we’ve wasted money is absurd. Our major signings like white and Rice have worked out.Retro Gunner wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:22 amA question for Viv and Nutty. Come the end of this season, what will success look like in your opinion? What will the team need to achieve to warrant calling the season a success?
We finished last season 5 points behind City and 17 points ahead of Liverpool.
Last season we went out of the FA Cup in the 4th round and the EFL Cup in the 3rd round...first round for us (I think De Zerbi was managing Brighton ).
We then spent over 200 million in the summer....but didn't buy a striker. This, by the way, took Arteta's 4 year spend to 700 million, which makes nonsense of Viv's blaming funds for having dross on the bench.
This season we went out of the FA Cup in the 3rd round and the EFL Cup in the 4th round in an embarrassing performance against West Ham .
Under Arteta, exiting domestic cups almost immediately has become a habit.
Last season we went out of the Europa in the first knockout stage on penalties, this season we squeaked through the CL first knockout stage on penalties.
So, after spending over 200 million last summer, we've totally fucked up the domestic cups again, so it's all on the PL and CL. How far do we have to go in the CL and how will the final PL have to look for you to say it's been a success this season?
The question id say …
Lose at the Etihad and fall away to third in the league then go out of CL next round. I’d say you couldn’t class it as a success as it’s probably the baseline of achievement. It’s meh for me not punishable by death by any means as it points to us establishing regular champions league qualification 2 years in a row just full of what ifs.
A gallant 2nd by a short margin and a champions league semi final would qualify as a real success for me. Would show last season wasn’t a one off and that we are here to stay and made definitive progress in Europe with loads of prize money. Rebuild, chop wood and go again !
That said I fully believe from what I’m reading here that even if we actually won the title you would have people saying “‘bu bu bu but he signed Havertz!”
Anyway, the clear point I was making was that after a reasonably successful league campaign last season (I could forgive the collapse when viewed overall) and finishing 2nd, 17 points ahead of Liverpool, Arteta then spent in excess of 200 million in the summer. As such, no room for excuses if we end up below the scousers and we need to be a very close 2nd to City at worst.
In fairness, that's what you said re the league finish this season and I agree that a CL semi final would be a successful progression.
Regarding your comments about the EFL, considering we've won fuck all since 2020, don't you think it might be a start? You consider it beneath us, yet City, Liverpool and Chelsea (including when they were going well) all try to win it and actually do so. I see that with your usual selective approach, you don't mention the failures in the FA Cup....do you think we oughtn't bother with that either?
FA Cup i do care about it’s an amazing day out, i reckon our 98 final v newcastle was one of the best days of my life. If i recall some bird properly put it on me after the game in a nightclub too. Honestly it was like fucking christmas mate, should have bought a lottery ticket that day. Anyway these are one off 90 minute knock out games and we just didn’t get a result on the day this year. irritating eh, but painting it as some sort of pattern with the manager is silly as he won it once already in 4 years and really European progression is the priority because of the money involved. Stick with the guy and there’s going to be lots of fun again.
Are you a politician by any chance? I see that you selectively ignored the fact that we’re ahead of the City spending curve that you highlighted.
Also, it isn’t the not City chasing and winning the EFL is it…I think Liverpool have won 2 of the last 3. It’s the least important of the competitions, but if we’re trading finals, I was at the league cup final in ‘87 (and the two you mention) which launched our good years under George. Winning is a habit. As for drawing London teams away being an excuse for losing, that’s really scraping the barrel when that team is West Ham. As for Brighton, when did they become a London club and we lost at home not away.
Take a look at the four years in both domestic cups since we won the FA Cup in 2020 and tell me again that there’s no pattern. That’s eight cup competitions where we haven’t got out the blocks. All well and good saying it’s Europe that’s important, but the big clubs with a winning mentality take all competitions seriously. The evidence proves it.
Lets make this clear, between 2008 and 2015 (when we were paying off our stadium on much lower revenues) or just before Pep turned up City dropped the best part of a billion quid in the transfer market using every financial trick in the book to inflate their income ahead of what it really was. The most well known being a £90+m sponsorship with Etihad where City covered 90% of the cost of the sponsorship, they were able to do this because Etihad where also owned by Sheikh Mansour. So for me talking about Arsenal spending £200m last summer is a non discussion, there are clubs that have spent a lot more like Chelski and Manure, who are miles behind us.
And to answer the question what's an acceptable season, that we could all take heart from and that last season wasn't a one off, as Stuart has said, 2nd and a CL semi. I would even accept 3rd if we was less than 5 points behind the winners.