Man Cheaty 115 charges / Everton / Other Corruption Super Thread (merged)

[BobbyPires7]

The reason this hasn’t come to court is because City’s lawyers have been frustrating the legal process. It’s as clear as it can ever be. As I say, their initial defensive approach is to disagree with the charges and to claim the rules they have broken are not correct. It’s very obvious they know they are guilty. Otherwise they would be producing evidence to disprove the charges. They haven’t done this. Because they have none. Finally, they have not cooperated over a number of years and have failed to provide financial information. This cannot be argued. They haven’t supplied it. There is no defence to it. So they will be found guilty of the majority of the charges. It just isn’t possible to claim they complied with information requests when they didn’t.

[augie]

Tbh I'm not even gonna get into this debate cos there isnt a part of me that believes they will be found guilty, and even if they are found guilty the "punishment" will be so inconsequential so as to make no difference to the game going forward. I've never been a fan of FFP anyway cos I think that there is something fundamentally wrong in stopping an owner spending his own money on his club, BUT if they chose to go this route then they have to be willing to see it through properly and I dont see evidence of that. Docking pts from smaller clubs is all well and dandy, but they cant even get this case to trial much less render any meaningful punishments, so how are we supposed to believe that justice will be served. In life there has always been two different types of justice (justice for the rich and lesser justice for the poor), and seeing as there is massive money involved here, I cannot see a just outcome coming. I think the prospect of spending years in appeals, plus the massive stain it will bring on the league, will basically neuter any proper sanctions

Exactly - I always said the FFP rules would be dismissed by the likes of the Chavs and City. Loopholes found, tax consultants, lawyers, forensic accountants, the world's most expensive advisors will find all sorts of ways to query interpretations of laws and they will do what they did before - accept some sort of fine - £10m or something which the Premier League will be delighted with and won't tarnish their product. Can you imagine the look for the global brand of the PL if everything City have achieved since as far back as 2009 suddenly had an asterisk against it in the same way that Olympic golds were retrospectively taken away from doped athletes. All those commercial contracts worth billions, the TV companies etc would all be associated with a tarnished product where its most successful team had been discredited for a 15 year period. It just isn't going to happen. As much as we'd like it too, it isn't going to happen

If the PL didn't want a PR disaster they wouldn't have charged city with anything

Fans of other football clubs up and down the country (not just premier league fans btw) have long since moaned and bitched about citeeh buying and cheating their way to success - the premier league are under pressure to investigate them and when they find them not guilty, they will then be able to turn around and say to the world "we told you our product is clean" If by some miracle they decide on a guilty verdict, they will then come out with some big fine and claim that the punishment shows that the premier league is all about integrity, but it ignores the reality that fining a oil funded club is a waste of time cos money is no problem The reality is that only a massive points deduction or relegation along with a transfer embargo for at least 4 transfer windows will be viewed as proper punishment - the fact that these charges go back years tells me that a points deduction would be very hard to implement at this stage, but I suspect that even at this stage the premier league regret going after citeeh cos the legal bill will be massive. Have you ever been in a car accident that went legal cos that is what I would compare it to - so many times insurance companies will settle a claim instead of fighting it regardless of whether you are in right or not simply because it is more cost effective to them to just make it go away instead of going to court

In the land of make believe this wouldn’t even be believed. City will be found guilty.

I fear that you are looking at this through idealistic goggles - none of us here (or fans of other clubs either) believe citeeh to be innocent, but you talk as though life is fair and justice will be served when in reality that is rarely the case. I always point back to the cashly hole fiasco - that judas c.unt met with chelski officials and the papers had photo's of the meeting, and yet the only punishment was a few meagre fines and no points deductions or transfer embargo

[cameron326]

The funny thing is that every single one of Pep’s City titles will come with an asterisk next to it in the history books, once City are found to have cheated. He will have wasted possibly his best managerial years on a fraudulent project. You can tell he knows this as well, when questioned on the 115 in his recent interviews - he’s even more testy and angry than his typical humourless demeanour. I wonder if more will ever come to light of Barca’s dodgy dealings as well.

[cameron326]

I think people forget that the 115 charges literally means 115 individual cases to be answered. Not one Big Case, but dozens and dozens of indivudal ones. I’m sure that a few will be found “unproven” and that could be 5 or it could be 50. But the idea that all 115 could be found “not guilty” is farcical. They will be found guilty of cheating on multiple, multiple counts.

[BobbyPires7]

I think people forget that the 115 charges literally means 115 individual cases to be answered. Not one Big Case, but dozens and dozens of indivudal ones. I’m sure that a few will be found “unproven” and that could be 5 or it could be 50. But the idea that all 115 could be found “not guilty” is farcical. They will be found guilty of cheating on multiple, multiple counts.

Correct.

[augie]

I think people forget that the 115 charges literally means 115 individual cases to be answered. Not one Big Case, but dozens and dozens of indivudal ones. I’m sure that a few will be found “unproven” and that could be 5 or it could be 50. But the idea that all 115 could be found “not guilty” is farcical. They will be found guilty of cheating on multiple, multiple counts.

I think we know all that, but that feeds into our belief that because they wont be found guilty of all 115 charges, it is more likely that a watered down financial punishment will be the outcome

[Stuart L (2)]

I think people forget that the 115 charges literally means 115 individual cases to be answered. Not one Big Case, but dozens and dozens of indivudal ones. I’m sure that a few will be found “unproven” and that could be 5 or it could be 50. But the idea that all 115 could be found “not guilty” is farcical. They will be found guilty of cheating on multiple, multiple counts.

I think we know all that, but that feeds into our belief that because they wont be found guilty of all 115 charges, it is more likely that a watered down financial punishment will be the outcome

What a case of, oh it was only 98 proven so not that bad

[augie]

I think people forget that the 115 charges literally means 115 individual cases to be answered. Not one Big Case, but dozens and dozens of indivudal ones. I’m sure that a few will be found “unproven” and that could be 5 or it could be 50. But the idea that all 115 could be found “not guilty” is farcical. They will be found guilty of cheating on multiple, multiple counts.

I think we know all that, but that feeds into our belief that because they wont be found guilty of all 115 charges, it is more likely that a watered down financial punishment will be the outcome

What a case of, oh it was only 98 proven so not that bad

No, but more a case of a fine of between £20m-£50m which to most is a significant sum but to citeeh is a drop in the ocean

[Perryashburtongroves]

I think people forget that the 115 charges literally means 115 individual cases to be answered. Not one Big Case, but dozens and dozens of indivudal ones. I’m sure that a few will be found “unproven” and that could be 5 or it could be 50. But the idea that all 115 could be found “not guilty” is farcical. They will be found guilty of cheating on multiple, multiple counts.

I think we know all that, but that feeds into our belief that because they wont be found guilty of all 115 charges, it is more likely that a watered down financial punishment will be the outcome

What a case of, oh it was only 98 proven so not that bad

No, but more a case of a fine of between £20m-£50m which to most is a significant sum but to citeeh is a drop in the ocean

They'll be found guilty of a lot of the 'lesser' charges and not guilty of the 'bigger' ones which will lead to the Premier League claiming they've dealt with it sufficiency but really, everyone will know that they've covered it up.

[BobbyPires7]

Let me make this very clear.

City have signed up to the rules of the Premier League, just like every other club has had to. The rules allow the Premier League to ask for anything they want from those clubs in order to ensure they are complying with FFP. Over the best part of a decade City have refused to hand over information the Premier League have been asking for. Much of it stems from the leak of emails published in Der Spiegel. This leak showed emails between City’s Chief Exec at the time and the City ownership where they were back solving the financial position. In other words, they would look at how much they had overspent and then ask for the various sponsorship deals to be “topped up” in order to meet FFP. These emails were subject to the UEFA case but City lawyers frustrated the process until it ended up time barred. In other words, they tied it up in knots until they got to a 5 year time limit and therefore couldn’t be found guilty. The Premier League have been trying to get to the bottom of this ever since and City have employed the same tactic of expensive lawyers to frustrate the process. Therefore the charges are broadly in two camps. A)Failure to provide information. B)Failure to comply with FFP. City are now trying to argue that the Premier League rules are wrong and that they have no right to ask for this information. They can’t argue this as they have signed up to the Premier League rules. That’s why every case they have brought has been thrown out of court and they have lost all the appeals.

You really need to educate yourselves on what is happening here. City are losing every case. They are guilty and will be found to be guilty. It is simply a matter of time.

[DB10GOONER]

I'm very impressed with Super Thread

It's nice isn't it?

[SteveO 35]

Let me make this very clear.

City have signed up to the rules of the Premier League, just like every other club has had to. The rules allow the Premier League to ask for anything they want from those clubs in order to ensure they are complying with FFP. Over the best part of a decade City have refused to hand over information the Premier League have been asking for. Much of it stems from the leak of emails published in Der Spiegel. This leak showed emails between City’s Chief Exec at the time and the City ownership where they were back solving the financial position. In other words, they would look at how much they had overspent and then ask for the various sponsorship deals to be “topped up” in order to meet FFP. These emails were subject to the UEFA case but City lawyers frustrated the process until it ended up time barred. In other words, they tied it up in knots until they got to a 5 year time limit and therefore couldn’t be found guilty. The Premier League have been trying to get to the bottom of this ever since and City have employed the same tactic of expensive lawyers to frustrate the process. Therefore the charges are broadly in two camps. A)Failure to provide information. B)Failure to comply with FFP. City are now trying to argue that the Premier League rules are wrong and that they have no right to ask for this information. They can’t argue this as they have signed up to the Premier League rules. That’s why every case they have brought has been thrown out of court and they have lost all the appeals.

You really need to educate yourselves on what is happening here. City are losing every case. They are guilty and will be found to be guilty. It is simply a matter of time.

Everyone wants you to be 100% right with this mate, believe me.....my fear is that the PL end up being weak as piss. I'm not interested in €50m fines and nor is anyone else. Being guilty is one thing, and I believe you are right - they most definitely are. Its the gravity of the punishment I want to see

[A11M11]

One thing that I am certain of is that they wont get relegated. They are 20 points clear of champions league Aston Villa , I reckon a fine and start the next season 20 points off is as far as the league will go . Then just watch them get all the bottom clubs in their first games so that they can make it up quickly.

[DB10GOONER]

Have to be honest, anyone that thinks cheateh will be properly punished is deluding themselves.

The PL first and foremost will protect their product, the premier league.

They want to be seen to be doing the right thing.

So what will really happen is a series of behind closed doors negotiations between the PL and cheateh's lawyers.

They will come to a compromise where they find cheateh guilty of all the lesser administrative infringements which will mean a huge (but toothless) fine and maybe a small points reduction for the following season, but ultimately not guilty of anything serious enough to warrant the revoking of trophies or relegation as that would shit all over the PL as a product.

This is how big business operates.

[SteveO 35]

Have to be honest, anyone that thinks cheateh will be properly punished is deluding themselves.

The PL first and foremost will protect their product, the premier league.

They want to be seen to be doing the right thing.

So what will really happen is a series of behind closed doors negotiations between the PL and cheateh's lawyers.

They will come to a compromise where they find cheateh guilty of all the lesser administrative infringements which will mean a huge (but toothless) fine and maybe a small points reduction for the following season, but ultimately not guilty of anything serious enough to warrant the revoking of trophies or relegation as that would shit all over the PL as a product.

This is how big business operates.

That's exactly how I see it. The PL will be delighted with a fine that gives them £30m-£50m additional funds. City will be delighted that they've been seen to be punished but not in a way that will cause them a lack of sleep.