[goonersid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17382896
I can feel a parade and victims campaign coming on

[augie]

If I lost somebody in a tragedy like that I would like to think that my priority would be find out the whole truth but to me it looks sometimes that the families are not interested in hearing anything that doesnt point the finger at the cops
Everybody knows that the initial problems were caused by a load of pissed up scousers arriving late and causing a crush outside but no scousers will accept that

[goonersid]

The thing is, those who lost their lives were those who had tickets and were in the ground well before kick-off. I just can't understand their denial and reluctance to attach any blame to those who turned up late without tickets.
It's not as if to say it was spur of the moment, the game was in Sheffield so these twats travelled knowing what they were going to do.

[jamjc64]

If I lost somebody in a tragedy like that I would like to think that my priority would be find out the whole truth but to me it looks sometimes that the families are not interested in hearing anything that doesnt point the finger at the cops
Everybody knows that the initial problems were caused by a load of pissed up scousers arriving late and causing a crush outside but no scousers will accept that

So very very true. If the paper had said that the police would take the blame for failure to control the crowd, would the scoucers also then say that it was untrue. No bloody chance.

To thousands of us, we know or can guess what happened. Recent history points to that. Alas in the compensation world that we live in there lays the problem...

[Dan_85]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/ind ... c=287776.0

[goonersid]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287776.0

Who would have thought it? It's a conspiracy, cos it's not their fault.

[QuartzGooner]

Fault of the fans without tickets.
Fault of the police who were not set up to deal with a football crowd which let's face it, will include some drunk fans at nearly every game.
Fault of the stewards and stadium management for not having a safe stadium entry system.

[littlefire]

Fault of the fans without tickets.
Fault of the police who were not set up to deal with a football crowd which let's face it, will include some drunk fans at nearly every game.
Fault of the stewards and stadium management for not having a safe stadium entry system.

Yes.

[SWLGooner]

Police, stewarding and fans should all take blame IMO.

Any Scouser that was in that end without tickets has blood on their hands.

[Perryashburtongroves]

Same old shit from the mousers. As the mancs sing: "It's never your fault" As others have said so many times over the last 23 years, can we not just move the fuck on, just like that club and it's fans have done about Heysel.

[SWLGooner]

It's never your fault, it's never your faultttt, always the victims, it's never your fault!

[SammyDroppedHisShorts]

Hillsbrough 89 had always left a bad taste in my mouth. I feel for the families who lost lived ones, but for years the Scousers breached safety rules regularly so they could get in to a ground. On many occasions at Wembley in the early 80s you'd see 'Fans' climbing through windows, pulling others up over gates and basically screwing safety.

Even since 89 we see over crowded areas when Liverpool play, gangways are full, seats are never sat in and they pile two people in on one ticket through turnstiles.

Victims..the ones who died yes, but drink, arrogance and utter disregard for the fellow fan is why we have this issue still.

[frankbutcher]

Hillsbrough 89 had always left a bad taste in my mouth. I feel for the families who lost lived ones, but for years the Scousers breached safety rules regularly so they could get in to a ground. On many occasions at Wembley in the early 80s you'd see 'Fans' climbing through windows, pulling others up over gates and basically screwing safety.

Even since 89 we see over crowded areas when Liverpool play, gangways are full, seats are never sat in and they pile two people in on one ticket through turnstiles.

Victims..the ones who died yes, but drink, arrogance and utter disregard for the fellow fan is why we have this issue still.

Quarter Final of the Champions League vs us a few years back. They were jibbing into the Emirates by the dozen. FACT.

THEY WILL NEVER LEARN. ALWAYS THE VICTIMS.

SCUM

[northbankbren]

Have any of you actually looked into all the official evidence of what happened, because it seems not, the cctv footage is there for all to see.

Yes there were some drunk out of control fans without tickets, who do hold blame for causing a panic, and im sure a few who even from the back tried to push their way in. But quite frankly not enough for the police to panic and lose control in the way they did.

They didnt delay the kick off. They opened the main gate allowing everyone to flood in, and didnt shut off the center section of the stand which was already packed full, they didnt direct them into the outer section which had loads of room.

The police basically gave up on their jobs and said...fuckit open all the doors let anyone in. Its all on record they paniced with the crowd outside, and didnt have a clue what was going on inside.

The scousers caused there fair share of problems in the past, but the way most on here have bought into a sterotype and kind of thatcher/sun agenda is shocking. Forget the footy banter and look into the facts of Hillsbourgh. The police lost control of a situation that should have been well within their capabilities. And the police made fatal errors.

These new reports just justify the well known opinion that police then, as well as now have a stereotype for the football fan. It was obviously much worse back then. It also shows that the police, goverment and tabloid medias intitial perception of what happened was totally wrong and also based on a perception of sterotype of scousers and football fans in general.

Forget the scouse hate. And think about the majority of footy fans.

Imagine this senario fa cup final/champions leauge final....a massive game basically home/away or neutral, 5mins to kick off some have tickets some dont, there is a massive queue into the stadium, people start to get pissed off, some sober some not, 2mins to kick off, all of a sudden they open the massive gate to the right of the turnstiles and everyone starts running in, those with tickets and those without, that happens to you, with a ticket or without.......what do you do????

I know, what I'd do, and I think most of you would do the same. I know modern stadiums are far safer, mainly due to seating, so now it is far safer. Also dont be ignorant and say gooners dont bunk into games, maybe not on the scouser scale but it happens.

My point is, the sterotype most have posted on here are so calvin mcenzie esque it worries me.

This was a disaster that could have been avoided, by those who were paid to control the event and didnt. SImple as that.

[Herd]

The Biggest factor in the deaths was police incompetence followed by very poor stadium design .

I could go on a long one but I won't suffice to say in previous years a buffer system was successfully used at Hillsborough to prevent ticket-less fans from approaching the Turnstiles and also to prevent overcrowding at the same point .
The copper in charge had never taken control of any crowd events in his life and the decision to open the gates effectively signed their death warrants.
There was and still are only 2 entrances to the leppings lane and pouring them in via a single concrete tube was bound result in deaths,however a major disaster could have again been prevented if dibble had had the sense to open the fences to allow people on the pitch.

I am not a scouser apologist and they make it difficult with their grieving self pitying ,not to mention their pontius pilate attitude towards Heysel 85 but the Victims and their families deserve the truth to be publicly outed ,something they will never get I fear !