[DB10GOONER]

Highbury JD - if you're going to quote me mate then at least do it in context. The quote you've referred to is the very point I am making. I said that I was happy to own a season ticket then - not that I was happy with the performance of the team. In fact I use the word 'dismal' to describe how we were playing in the last 2 years of GG's era - that hardly sounds like being happy with the team does it? The football from 1994-1996 was mostly bloody awful - midfield plodders with no creativity and a total reliance on Wrighty to nick us a goal. We could still defend pretty well, but what was laid out in front of that back four was the most predictable, stale midfield I think I've witnessed in my days as an Arsenal fan. But, and back to the original point and retort to your post about fans only renewing based upon the results

I don't like being lied to by corporate schmoozers, and I don't like my expectations being mismanged - whether its the car I drive, the restaurant I eat in, the suit I wear etc. I'm not a snob by any stretch of the imagination - if I fancy a Subway or McDonalds I'll eat it. I'll pay a fiver and enjoy it.....but I won't have it sold to me as a Michelin star dining experience. If I hire a Ford Fiesta, I expect it to drive like one and not like a Bentley.

One of the main rules of business life is not to alienate your customers. Another is to under promise and over deliver. Now I hate comparing Arsenal to a corporate organisation because its my pleasure in life and not the same as buying a car or eating in a restaurant - and hence the reason why it hurts 100x more to watch my club being led and managed the way it is currently i.e. complete alienation of the fan base and overpromising and underdelivering

When we moved to the Emirates we were sold a vision of competing with 'Europe's elite', and ticket prices were set accordingly. Since then we have seen a constant weakening of the squad, ticket price increases despite the fact that people's disposable incomes have been squeezed drastically, and a team that are further away from competing with Europe's elite than they were in 2006 when they reached the final of the CL, knocking out the likes of Real Madrid and Juventus en route. The club's focus on its property development activities at the expense of the football club has been impossible to disguise - read the club's accounts for the past 5 years.

Stan Kroenke is a high wealth individual that is running this club for cash, ready to sell it to the next owner. He doesn't care about Arsenal FC, to the extent that he'll show up to the AGM, give stock answers to preloaded questions and will then fuck off again for another year.....leaving Gazidis to preside over the milking of the fans for another year - last year 6.5% ticket price increases, this year pushing through Silver membership increases that have seen the price rise by 70%+ total in 2 years. What next year? I can only imagine...

I personally choose not to add to Kroenke's personal wealth all the while I feel that I am being lied to. I don't enjoy not going as regularly as I once did, but I can live with it. There is no counterargument to that - it is my right, and my personal feeling. If it isn't shared by you then great for you - you'll benefit to the extent that I am one less ST holder / ticket purchaser for you to worry about....but please don't confuse everybody that doesn't want to renew with some form of trophy hungry fan that pisses off the first time we don't win something. It was years until I saw Arsenal win anything of substance from the time I started supporting them and I went every week and the football was far worse.....and I can assure you that if these current owners or the next batch eventually fuck us all over and saddled us with crippling debts, I'd be one of the first fans to be buying tickets in the Championship or League One if we were owned by people that didn't rip us to shit, were honest in their ambition and delivery and didn't constantly feed us a pack of lies.

Fantastic post Steve-O. So good it is worth quoting.

[highburyJD]

excellent coherent statement from steveO
but your complaint is about the modern world of Premiership football - it could apply to many many clubs

not much I disagree with in it though - the previous things that got the bee in my bonnet were

suggestions we could end up playing front of 20k - not going to happen
inference there could be ANY upside to Chelski winning the CL - would be a tragedy
and posts were non-renewal of season tickets are mentioned in the same breath as how bad our transfer business is bound to be - I accept your personal non renewal reasoning is more complex but it naturally draws a connection when people post the two things together

moaners in the stadium irritate me, I pray several non singing miserable negative bastrds near me dont renew
(too loud - seriously TOO LOUD as a complaint at a football match?!?! this has actually happened)
its unfair of me to associate that kind of negativity with the complaints here
but its the east stand non singers who at HT start their we'll never win anything ever again, why do I come?
boohoo whinging

I still hope a lack of Arsenal success gets rid of vast swathes of fans who don't sing and leave early. Means I may be a be to take my kids in ten years.

oh and I think we let in tons of goals at the end of GGs reign...

[Red Member]

yes looks a good post Steveo.
bit too long for me to read all of it but anyway on the ticketing prices I think you have to see it from Mr Kroenke's view. He sees full stadiums every week and people willing to pay £1000 a year in advance just so they can watch us play matches like Wigan on a Monday night and Norwich on a Saturday lunchtime. He must be thinking how far can I push it -so gradually he is making it more and more expensive hence the silver membership increase.

And he is correct in his thinking because after several years waiting how much would I be prepared to pay for a silver membership? £50, £60,£70? Actually I would probably be prepared to pay up to £100. It is about £20 cheaper in the lower tier and if a silver membership could guarantee me that every game I would pay for that privilege. 5 games to attend and I have broken even.

i dont agree with Kroenke and his even more annoying side kick, Gazidis but I can see where he is coming from.

[highburyJD]

SteveO's valid complaints, and red members silverquandry
are pretty much league wide issues

we could learn from the Germans and try and demonstrate en masse
(think they had a first game of the season strike about prices going over a tenner!)

I would love to see the FSF + fanshare have a much stronger voice

[SteveO 35]

SteveO's valid complaints, and red members silverquandry
are pretty much league wide issues

we could learn from the Germans and try and demonstrate en masse (think they had a first game of the season strike about prices going over a tenner!)

I would love to see the FSF + fanshare have a much stronger voice

I've got a feeling that Dan_85 has already got the megaphone in his hand as we speak

[highburyJD]

club protests dont really work - the black scarf gang is a perfect example
the message gets lost amongst multiple agendas:
cut season tickets prices!
buy more players!
win trophies!
let kids in free!

A simple league wide message makes more sense:

1- I would campaign for an elected season ticket holder rep on every board
the only argument against this I've heard is they are weakened by being 'embedded' with a group whose business secrets they have to keep - easily overcome by
2- total transparency of all financial transactions for football clubs
I think this alone could prevent another Pompey, Leeds, Rangers type debacle
3- fan input on player/board member remuneration, ticket+food+drink pricing
4- introduce safe standing

I think you could get season ticket holders of every club onboard for those.

Personally I would also like to see wages capped as a % of income (and eventually at a specific level)
with the possible addition of a baseball style excess 'supertax' at maybe 100%

I would like to see the St John's ambulance prioritised ahead of 'football debts'

and I would like to see the FA cup given the 4th CL spot (although only for winners not beaten finalists)

[SteveO 35]

excellent coherent statement from steveO
but your complaint is about the modern world of Premiership football - it could apply to many many clubs

not much I disagree with in it though - the previous things that got the bee in my bonnet were

suggestions we could end up playing front of 20k - not going to happen
inference there could be ANY upside to Chelski winning the CL - would be a tragedy
and posts were non-renewal of season tickets are mentioned in the same breath as how bad our transfer business is bound to be - I accept your personal non renewal reasoning is more complex but it naturally draws a connection when people post the two things together

moaners in the stadium irritate me, I pray several non singing miserable negative bastrds near me dont renew
(too loud - seriously TOO LOUD as a complaint at a football match?!?! this has actually happened)
its unfair of me to associate that kind of negativity with the complaints here
but its the east stand non singers who at HT start their we'll never win anything ever again, why do I come?
boohoo whinging

I still hope a lack of Arsenal success gets rid of vast swathes of fans who don't sing and leave early. Means I may be a be to take my kids in ten years.

oh and I think we let in tons of goals at the end of GGs reign...

Why this bothers people, I just don't understand. Sometimes when I go to games I sing, other times I don't. Doesn't mean I support the team any less and certainly doesn't translate into the fact that I'm not enjoying it. Sometimes I still meet my Dad at games - he's nearly 70 now and sits with a bunch of STs aged between 60 and 85. Why the fuck should they have to stand up every five minutes at a Carling Cup game against Wigan singing "Stand Up if you hate Tottenham" with the first time teenagers that have turned up for the match. Should they just all be sent packing after 50 odd years of loyal support on the basis that they aren't as hysterical as the 14 year old stood next to them ?

Its quite simple - the club should have areas of the ground which attract the fans that want to sing and be louder. In the same way that you say, quite rightly, that there should be room in this forum for fans that show optimism and get behind the team all the time....is there not room at Arsenal for people that enjoy the game without having to sing every minute?

[highburyJD]

if those that dont sing leave and are replaced by those that do
I would see that as an improvement, def in atmosphere

I think we could consider a pensioner section for those that dont sing

I'm exaggerating to some extent...
just people loudly moaning at HT who havent supported the team get on my nerves...

[SteveO 35]

Big games and successful teams create fantastic atmospheres. Games with an edge, stirring comebacks, big derby matches etc

I hear so much bullshit spoken about the lack of atmosphere at our ground. I've been to all of the grounds that have a mythical great atmosphere - St James's Park, Stadium of Light, Anfield, Theatre of Shite, Fratton Park. The truth of the matter is that you can hear a fucking pin drop in all of them when their teams are doing badly. I'm sure you've had the pleasure of singing "Where's yer famous atmosphere?" at least at one of those grounds.

Liverpool are the biggest joke of the fucking lot. They love to zoom in on all of the red scarves to You'll Never Work Again when they are playing a big European game or against United, but seem to forget the terrible booing of their own team during the end of Benitez's reign and throughout Hodgson's.

[highburyJD]

agree on that
shittania was silent for ages...