[skizz_b]

in all seriousness, are we going to end up with this same debate about the banner if we have the same start to next season as we did the last?

[OneBardGooner]

If RVP does go no matter whom they bring in as a replacement, the "BANNER" should be up from the whistle of the very first game!

[arseofacrow]

in all seriousness, are we going to end up with this same debate about the banner if we have the same start to next season as we did the last?

what, who, where?

[augie]

In fairness Sid , the views of RA have changed some what in the last few Weeks.

There not quite the same in the pocket group.

Mikey,
Cook has posted this on the 16 may. Claiming they are neither pro or anti anything, how can a group calling itself Redaction, which calls on support from ordinary fans, not have a pro or anti board, wenger or funding opinion, or aganda.

As far as I've been aware RA have only been a focus group for fans to help enhance the atmosphere at the Grove and previously at Highbury.
This includes supporting and getting behind the players. I've often witness (or heard) RA sing up for a player that fans might be getting on the back off. Ramsey in particular was a recent player.

Where the water gets murky is the support of the manager. Remember the point of RA is to provide a positive atmosphere. What has happened is that fans start to bemoan Wenger (rightly) so to drown it out RA sing up. Unfortunately they often choose to sing "One Arsene Wenger". From what I understand this goes against some RA members beliefs.

And if that is the case then fair enough but there are a few issues which can be atmosphere related that maybe they should argue with the club over - I absolutely dislike with a passion the policy that involves confiscation of banners that dont toe the party line If a banner isnt offensive then we should have the right to display it but the way this is governed is typical of the "grass via text" policy that was brought in by the club a few years ago How do the club expect the fans to unite and improve the atmosphere when they run a system that has fans ratting out fellow Gooners ?

Anyway if I am honest it will take a lot to wipe the memory of the pro wenger banner and marches plus the anti usmanov banner that I associate with redaction - if what I'm told is correct then sections of the group are no longer behind wenger but it does frustrate me that they were quite ok publicly expressing opinions when it would please the club to do so but now that things are turning the group have decided on discretion rather than risk pissing off the powers that be inside the club

[Vinny1967]

One of the biggest threads of the OG in 2011/12. We got flak for never showing it. We effed up on this count, and I hold my hands up for it. But I've just seen this thread on AFC Forum from our good old friend. Apparently by finishing 3rd Wenger has proved us wrong and a fair few agree with him. Is this a sign of how far we have fallen? Who is behind Wenger's continuation as Manager? Are you giving him one last chance? Or is he God in your eyes forever?

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2981

I'm a complete newbie to this forum and I have read the thread. My opinion for what it's worth.

I think kudos to those who got the banner and I can understand to some extent why it was never shown. However it did get publicity and it did get a reaction. I'm all for free speech and respect what you and others were trying to achieve. Loved the interview on Talksport as well.

In answer to your questions I would have had unswerving loyalty to Wenger up until last Summer. I think he messed up and made some mistakes which has lead us to where we are now. I think Liverpool's underperformance, Chelsea's debacle with managers and 5purs doing a devon loch has led us to finish 3rd and we were extremely lucky to do so.

I am still hopeful for this Summer and I think with the right signings we can compete at the top table again. While I can't think of the last world class signing we have made I think Wenger knows he is under pressure and he is a winner and won't want to finish his contract on a whimper.

[safcftm]

One of the biggest threads of the OG in 2011/12. We got flak for never showing it. We effed up on this count, and I hold my hands up for it. But I've just seen this thread on AFC Forum from our good old friend. Apparently by finishing 3rd Wenger has proved us wrong and a fair few agree with him. Is this a sign of how far we have fallen? Who is behind Wenger's continuation as Manager? Are you giving him one last chance? Or is he God in your eyes forever?

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2981

Not read the whole thread but its a difficult one- I agree with the gooners who are frustrated with Wenger and want him gone but equally he did get you 3rd which, given your squad compared to man uniteds and the money man city have, was the best you could realistically have hoped for. I've asked it a million times and will continue to ask it- is Wenger not spending because he doesnt want to or is he not spending because he isnt allowed to? If its the former then kick him out and get a manager with balls, if its the latter then you need to accept that he's doing as well as could be hoped and turn your anger on those in charge of the transfer budgets at the club, trouble is no one seems to know why he's not spending so its hard for fans to know who to blame

[Sutch]

can't think of the last world class signing we have made I think Wenger knows he is under pressure and he is a winner and won't want to finish his contract on a whimper.

I honestly thought I'd seen it all on this forum, but now that bolded quote has opened my eyes. Wenger a winner?

[terry henry]

can't think of the last world class signing we have made I think Wenger knows he is under pressure and he is a winner and won't want to finish his contract on a whimper.

I honestly thought I'd seen it all on this forum, but now that bolded quote has opened my eyes. Wenger a winner?

In fairness Wenger has been a winner in the past. You don't win a league campaign going unbeaten being a loser. Unfortunately since then he has lost his way. Partly because football has changed so dramatically and he hasn't moved with the times.

[skizz_b]

I think Wenger is a winner too..he obviously hates losing with a passion which is why it makes absolutely no sense that he won't spend some fucking money

[flash gunner]

I think Wenger is a winner too..he obviously hates losing with a passion which is why it makes absolutely no sense that he won't spend some fucking money

I agree and all these posters calling him every name under the sun is just ridiculous. I honestly think Wenger has lost his way, he has spent too long at one club and within his time he's been allowed by a weak board to take too much on. He seems to think of himself of an account as much as anything else. He should have been told his job is to concentrate on football and leave EVERYTHING else to other employees of Arsenal.

He hasnt been told the above so its time for him to go and has been for a few years now. We need change we need some fresh air spread throughout the club starting with a new manager and moving onto removing under performing players. Now im sure ill be caned by certain posters and called an AKB (which of course im not) but if you look at it rationally i think its the truth

[frankbutcher]

I think Wenger is a winner too..he obviously hates losing with a passion which is why it makes absolutely no sense that he won't spend some fucking money

I agree and all these posters calling him every name under the sun is just ridiculous. I honestly think Wenger has lost his way, he has spent too long at one club and within his time he's been allowed by a weak board to take too much on. He seems to think of himself of an account as much as anything else. He should have been told his job is to concentrate on football and leave EVERYTHING else to other employees of Arsenal.

He hasnt been told the above so its time for him to go and has been for a few years now. We need change we need some fresh air spread throughout the club starting with a new manager and moving onto removing under performing players. Now im sure ill be caned by certain posters and called an AKB (which of course im not) but if you look at it rationally i think its the truth

He is quite clearly complicit in it all. £7m per year in exchange for Champions League football and no net transfer spend. He's as guilty as the Board in all of this.

[flash gunner]

I think Wenger is a winner too..he obviously hates losing with a passion which is why it makes absolutely no sense that he won't spend some fucking money

I agree and all these posters calling him every name under the sun is just ridiculous. I honestly think Wenger has lost his way, he has spent too long at one club and within his time he's been allowed by a weak board to take too much on. He seems to think of himself of an account as much as anything else. He should have been told his job is to concentrate on football and leave EVERYTHING else to other employees of Arsenal.

He hasnt been told the above so its time for him to go and has been for a few years now. We need change we need some fresh air spread throughout the club starting with a new manager and moving onto removing under performing players. Now im sure ill be caned by certain posters and called an AKB (which of course im not) but if you look at it rationally i think its the truth

He is quite clearly complicit in it all. £7m per year in exchange for Champions League football and no net transfer spend. He's as guilty as the Board in all of this.

I totally agree but im sure he wants to win the league but doesnt know how to anymore. If he was told to concentrte on football only he might have kept the winning mentality he had all those years ago but he has been allowed to become the footballing side company accountant and therefore sees top 4 as quite a good finish which on a football side of things isnt good enough. Its the Gooner spring - time for change

[Block_5_Gooner]

One of the biggest threads of the OG in 2011/12. We got flak for never showing it. We effed up on this count, and I hold my hands up for it. But I've just seen this thread on AFC Forum from our good old friend. Apparently by finishing 3rd Wenger has proved us wrong and a fair few agree with him. Is this a sign of how far we have fallen? Who is behind Wenger's continuation as Manager? Are you giving him one last chance? Or is he God in your eyes forever?

http://www.afcforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2981

Not read the whole thread but its a difficult one- I agree with the gooners who are frustrated with Wenger and want him gone but equally he did get you 3rd which, given your squad compared to man uniteds and the money man city have, was the best you could realistically have hoped for. I've asked it a million times and will continue to ask it- is Wenger not spending because he doesnt want to or is he not spending because he isnt allowed to? If its the former then kick him out and get a manager with balls, if its the latter then you need to accept that he's doing as well as could be hoped and turn your anger on those in charge of the transfer budgets at the club, trouble is no one seems to know why he's not spending so its hard for fans to know who to blame

This is the $64 Million Dollar Question.

Part of the problem is clarity, which is why there are fractions with the fans. Some blame the board. Others blame Wenger. The rest equally blaming both the board and Wenger.

By all accounts there is money to spend but when you look at the money that has been spent and the type of players bought then for me it's Wenger.
Arsenal has (apparently) the best Scouting network in the world. Yet this network has brought us: Denilson, Vela, Ashavin, Watt, Squillaci, Almunia, Fabianski, Bentdner, Park, Mannone, Eastmond & Chamakh.

That's 12 Players either out on loan or in the depths of obscurity. Most of whom we're playing the full wages of (unless agreed in the loan). That's not to mention other players not listed in the reserves/youths.
I'd happily see all of them go if it meant keeping RVP.
Realistically on that basis we could get 3 RVP's instead of 12 fringe players. The problem at Arsenal is far too much quantity and not enough quality.

[I Hate Hleb]

Flash, Unfortunately because of the mass cult of Wenger that has developed over the past few years, there's more chance of driving Kroenke away then there is in getting rid of Wenger. Therefore I think gooners unhappy with his stewardship of the club so far should seriously consider starting a concerted campaign to make Stan realise we aren't content with the way things are being done, and that if he's not prepared to get 'stuck into the job' of making Arsenal great again, then he should sell his shares and feck off!!

[flash gunner]

Flash, Unfortunately because of the mass cult of Wenger that has developed over the past few years, there's more chance of driving Kroenke away then there is in getting rid of Wenger. Therefore I think gooners unhappy with his stewardship of the club so far should seriously consider starting a concerted campaign to make Stan realise we aren't content with the way things are being done, and that if he's not prepared to get 'stuck into the job' of making Arsenal great again, then he should sell his shares and feck off!!

Totally agree