Poppy/McLean thread

[flash gunner]

I dont like the idea that you have to wear one. Personally i put money in the collection tin but i give the poppy to my daughter. My grandfather was fought and survived in WW2 and i have his medals and am very proud of him but im not going to be told/expected to wear a poppy. It does take away from the whole thing when TV celebs are in a rush to be the first ones to wear poppys and i feel the whole thing is being mis-used.

As for McLean for someone who seems to dislike Britain he seems happy to take British money from sunderland

i cant ever remember mclean ever saying he disliked britain flash , but imagine what his family would have to go through up in derry if he had wore the poppy, again im not been pro or anti anyone here as there are bigots on both sides,

again it should be a matter of choice, as far as i can remember we do live in a democracy.

Not sure what a democracy is only joking

and i do agree with what you're saying too

[safcftm]

i have great respect for the british legion and the help they give to former soldiers, but the guy didnt want to wear a poppy and that is his choice , same choice that millions of britons took last weekend and i know for a fact that far more people dont wear a poppy as those that do,mcclean is from derry and without getting into a politicial debate here i imagine not too many catholics wear a poppy up there due to the history the town has with the british army,
so save your anger for the fellow brits that refuse and ask yourself why they dont wear one.

ps

before i get accused of anything here i wore a poppy yesterday because both my great grandfathers were ex british army who fought in world war one.

I think his situation is different to people who simply don't get round to donating (or do donate but don't wear the poppy). I think these people should donate (its only a quid or so a year) but unlike McClean they haven't actively refused to support the appeal.

I also think that McClean has demonstrated his stupidity yet again by needlessly causing controversy. If the poppy was a political symbol that suggested support for all acts carried out by the British Army then I'd absolutely support his decision not to wear one but the poppy isn't about agreeing with decisions taken, wearing a poppy doesn't in any way mean you support the events of Bloody Sunday. Its about remembering people, many just normal lads and lasses not much different to McClean before he became a footballer, who have given their lives (including as you say a lot of Irish lads). Its nothing to do with the politics of it and whether they should have been there in the first place, its simply about showing respect for lost lives and the fact that McClean has chosen not to respect this has gone down very badly with a lot of people in a town where a lot of lads join up and where many people have relatives in the forces.

Lots of lads who join up don't agree with all of the political decisions, many (most) Britons are ashamed of the events of Bloody Sunday but this isn't, in my opinion, a reason to refuse to wear a poppy. He's been disrespectful and I'm sick of the daft, immature, wannabe rebel bringing negative headlines to the club. I'll not abuse him, its his choice not to wear a poppy, but its my choice not to offer him any support and to hope he leaves. Everyone needs to move on from the past, major strides are being taken but certain idiots seem determined to live in the past, a past which is shameful on all sides

[g88ner]

And I believe in the tooth fairy too
It was obviously still there when I posted and that's @ abt 0930 hours Singapore time ,abt 1.30 am !
The whoosh it goes abt 3 hours later !
Why was it being moved out the main section ,too contentious fuck it I hate the Poppy Mafia !

what planet are you on? - why make such a big deal about a mistake? anyway, just for you...

I attempted to move it to cannonballs just after midnight UK time. It worked, but left a duplicate in 'terraces'. Then this morning at 0839 (UK time) Rebel deleted the 'terraces' version assuming the duplicate (in cannonballs) wouldn't be affected. Unfortunately it disappeared as well, so we turned your rant thread into a new Poppy/McLean thread in the hope it would carry on... which it has.

My reason for attempting to move it in the first place was because 'terraces' is Arsenal related, whereas 'cannonballs' is for everything else. Nothing more sinister than that... despite you thinking I'm part of some bizarre poppy mafia

Anyway, I'm not sure what your "singapore" timeline and "woosh, it's gone" comments are all about - what I've written above is the truth, mate. Nothing else too it.

So no, it wasn't too contentious. You're living in a dream world, my friend. Simple mistakes happen.

PS - there is no fucking tooth fairy!

[flash gunner]

Just for the record i don't like the name Poppy Mafia its not very intimidating is it Not the like Gambino or Lucchese in the good old days

[safcftm]

Just for the record i don't like the name Poppy Mafia its not very intimidating is it Not the like Gambino or Lucchese in the good old days

Hmm, this is a worry. We could be called "the remembrance regime", that sounds a little bit better. Or maybe "the conformity squad". We need a good uniform anarl, I'm not going about in a boring green one or anything, maybe orange would be good. And we need a badge and a logo.

[Cockerill's chin]

Although the poppy may not be a political symbol to you SAFC that doesn't mean it is not regarded the same in every community. It is probably naive of us to think it has the same meaning in Sunderland as it does on the Creggan Heights.

It's funny how this choice of McLean means many

hope the attention seeking, thick *word censored* fucks off out of our club as soon as possible and we have the freedom to decide to give him no support whatsoever whilst he wears our strip

. And then you go on to ridicule the power that the poppy currently has. Whichever badge or logo you come up with, it won't be as powerful as the over-reaction McLean's choice has generated.

We have endured such a bombardment of support the armed forces within the media that it has become unpatriotic to question why young men and women are getting killed in Afghan/Iraq. The over-reaction to a Republican's natural choice to not be a hypocrite and wear the poppy is a reflection of the current hysteria. I think a better way to support the troops would be to write a letter to the MP asking when are they coming home.

[safcftm]

Although the poppy may not be a political symbol to you SAFC that doesn't mean it is not regarded the same in every community. It is probably naive of us to think it has the same meaning in Sunderland as it does on the Creggan Heights.

It's funny how this choice of McLean means many

hope the attention seeking, thick *word censored* fucks off out of our club as soon as possible and we have the freedom to decide to give him no support whatsoever whilst he wears our strip

. And then you go on to ridicule the power that the poppy currently has. Whichever badge or logo you come up with, it won't be as powerful as the over-reaction McLean's choice has generated.

We have endured such a bombardment of support the armed forces within the media that it has become unpatriotic to question why young men and women are getting killed in Afghan/Iraq. The over-reaction to a Republican's natural choice to not be a hypocrite and wear the poppy is a reflection of the current hysteria. I think a better way to support the troops would be to write a letter to the MP asking when are they coming home.

I don't think it would be hypocritical of McClean to wear a poppy, he can still believe in a united Ireland and wear a poppy in memory of all the people who have given their lives for wars which, whichever side you're on, tend to be pointless and a waste of lives. If Martin McGuinness can shake the Queen's hand without being a hypocrite then I think a daft fucking kid from Londonderry (or Derry, or "free Derry" as he calls it) could wear a poppy shirt whilst representing an English football team. We'll never move on from the past while some people continue to hold grudges as McClean clearly does and if he wants to go effectively making a political statement then I'd rather he did it while playing for someone else, I've got no time for him or his politics at my football club so I stand by my comment of hoping he fucks off. It was a foolish, pointless, ill advised move and the kid just continues to bring controversy and negative publicity.

They can think what they like of the poppy on Creggan Heights, maybe if people like McClean showed tolerance and a willingness to move on then other people there would start to follow his lead and we could all move on

[Deise Gooner]

As many other has said Remembrance Sunday is about remembering those ordinary men and women who defended their country and their fellow citizens right to freedom and in fact citizens of many other countries right to freedom. Those soldiers who committed atrocities have been struck from the memory of the poppy appeal and the day isnt about remembering them whatsoever. When you think of the all the young men who died in WWI, many of whom were younger than me, im 22, they were are basically cannon fodder, sent over the top by the posh boys sat 30 miles and gunned down instantly. Thats what the day is about, reminding ourselves of their sacrifice and trying to make sure it will never happen again. If McClean cant find a way to suck it up for 90 minutes and do what his employer tells him then he has a lot of growing up to do.

[northbank123]

For me there's a distinction between opting not to wear a poppy and outright refusing to wear one. It's different to not go out of your way to purchase and display a poppy than it is to actively seek out your kitman and manufacturers and insist that they remove the poppy which every player has stitched on his shirt as a show of solidarity.

I appreciate the political background in Derry regarding the British Army but the poppy is more about honouring the dead of needless wars, the majority of whom were normal people who were conscripted and not career soldiers. Looking at his ill-advised comments about Ireland/Northern Ireland that crop up far too often he just seems like a daft prick.

And as I've said before if he feels so strongly about Derry and NI then why is he playing football for Republic and mocking NI?

[goonersid]

Although the poppy may not be a political symbol to you SAFC that doesn't mean it is not regarded the same in every community. It is probably naive of us to think it has the same meaning in Sunderland as it does on the Creggan Heights.

It's funny how this choice of McLean means many

hope the attention seeking, thick *word censored* fucks off out of our club as soon as possible and we have the freedom to decide to give him no support whatsoever whilst he wears our strip

. And then you go on to ridicule the power that the poppy currently has. Whichever badge or logo you come up with, it won't be as powerful as the over-reaction McLean's choice has generated.

We have endured such a bombardment of support the armed forces within the media that it has become unpatriotic to question why young men and women are getting killed in Afghan/Iraq. The over-reaction to a Republican's natural choice to not be a hypocrite and wear the poppy is a reflection of the current hysteria. I think a better way to support the troops would be to write a letter to the MP asking when are they coming home.

I don't think it would be hypocritical of McClean to wear a poppy, he can still believe in a united Ireland and wear a poppy in memory of all the people who have given their lives for wars which, whichever side you're on, tend to be pointless and a waste of lives. If Martin McGuinness can shake the Queen's hand without being a hypocrite then I think a daft fucking kid from Londonderry (or Derry, or "free Derry" as he calls it) could wear a poppy shirt whilst representing an English football team. We'll never move on from the past while some people continue to hold grudges as McClean clearly does and if he wants to go effectively making a political statement then I'd rather he did it while playing for someone else, I've got no time for him or his politics at my football club so I stand by my comment of hoping he fucks off. It was a foolish, pointless, ill advised move and the kid just continues to bring controversy and negative publicity.

They can think what they like of the poppy on Creggan Heights, maybe if people like McClean showed tolerance and a willingness to move on then other people there would start to follow his lead and we could all move on

Your ignorance of the Mc Clean situation is obvious, and your over reaction I fear is more deep rooted. You call for tolerance when you yourself seem incapable of tolerating his decision not to wear a poppy.
Mc Clean comes form a city and indeed a housing estate that has suffered more than you can imagine at the hands of the british army. The wearing of a poppy by nationalists in our city is virtually unheard of, and I doubt that will change no matter what lies ahead.
What you and many probably don't appreciate, is that the poppy is used here by many to make a political statement, ie I'm a unionist, in the same way many nationalists use the shamrock (crazy but true)
I personally have no problem with people wearing poppies, my father a second world war veteran always wore one.
As for wanting Mc Clean to fuck off out of your club, I think you will get that wish soon enough, he's much too good to hang around there for long.

[Old Rosie]

Although the poppy may not be a political symbol to you SAFC that doesn't mean it is not regarded the same in every community. It is probably naive of us to think it has the same meaning in Sunderland as it does on the Creggan Heights.

It's funny how this choice of McLean means many

hope the attention seeking, thick *word censored* fucks off out of our club as soon as possible and we have the freedom to decide to give him no support whatsoever whilst he wears our strip

. And then you go on to ridicule the power that the poppy currently has. Whichever badge or logo you come up with, it won't be as powerful as the over-reaction McLean's choice has generated.

We have endured such a bombardment of support the armed forces within the media that it has become unpatriotic to question why young men and women are getting killed in Afghan/Iraq. The over-reaction to a Republican's natural choice to not be a hypocrite and wear the poppy is a reflection of the current hysteria. I think a better way to support the troops would be to write a letter to the MP asking when are they coming home.

All very well and good regarding writing a letter but what about those who cannot come home and never will?

[safcftm]

Your ignorance of the Mc Clean situation is obvious, and your over reaction I fear is more deep rooted. You call for tolerance when you yourself seem incapable of tolerating his decision not to wear a poppy.
Mc Clean comes form a city and indeed a housing estate that has suffered more than you can imagine at the hands of the british army. The wearing of a poppy by nationalists in our city is virtually unheard of, and I doubt that will change no matter what lies ahead.
What you and many probably don't appreciate, is that the poppy is used here by many to make a political statement, ie I'm a unionist, in the same way many nationalists use the shamrock (crazy but true)
I personally have no problem with people wearing poppies, my father a second world war veteran always wore one.
As for wanting Mc Clean to fuck off out of your club, I think you will get that wish soon enough, he's much too good to hang around there for long.

too good for Sunderland, what a load of shit. He's a one paced, one trick, half season wonder who has been badly found out this season, he's done the square root of fuck all. His one trick of "kick it past the defender on the outside and run" hasn't worked for him and he's looked every bit a league of Ireland player. If you think he's too good I can only assume you haven't watched him this season. We are the biggest club he will ever play for unless he fucks off to Celtic which he is more than welcome to do, otherwise he'll end up in the championship before long.

Anyway, ignoring the lads rather disappointing lack of ability, I'm not sure what you're implying by my overreaction being "more deep rooted". I hope you're not suggesting that I am some kind of rabid anti-Irish/ Catholic bigot. I genuinely couldn't give a fuck about the whole protestant/ catholic debate (I'm neither) and I've got nothing against the Irish including those who want a united Ireland, they're perfectly entitled to want it. As a club we've got a lot to thank the Irish for, Quinny in particular, and if I heard anyone give Quinn abuse for being Irish I'd smash the fuck out of them.

I just think that McClean's decision shows an inability to move on. I understand the symbolism behind the poppy might mean something different in his home town but I think people there (other than the bigots) would have been perfectly understanding had he worn it and as I say it might have set a good example. By not wearing it he has disrespected a lot of the people who pay his wages and he has disrespected a lot of brave Irishmen and women who gave their lives to allow him the freedom to come here to earn his money and to make decisions regarding which part of Ireland he feels like representing from one day to the next. They might not be from the same area as McClean but Martin O'Neill, Roy Keane and Neil Lennon can all wear poppies, Martin McGuinness can shake hands with the Queen, maybe if all the bullshit was left in the past we might have less people to remember for giving up their lives in the future. Irish, British, Catholic, Protestant, Unionist or Nationalist I just want people to move on and not to have to lose family members to stupid disputes that can't be left in the past.

[Cockerill's chin]

All very well and good regarding writing a letter but what about those who cannot come home and never will?

All well and good??
The biggest honour that can be given is ensuring as few as possible join their number.

I wear a poppy and observe the silence but I know this is scant consolation to someone who has lost a loved one. Is puffing out our chest with pride one day a year meant to console a family for a life wasted in a needless war? All well and good then.

[DB10GOONER]

I think the elephant in the room here might be he felt his family back in Derry might be "safer" if he refused to wear it. I say "might be" as I don't know that for sure, obviously. But I would put nothing past those scumbag IRA crunts, including threatening and indeed killing the very people they talk about "representing" and "defending". These are the people that murdered a young Catholic mother for offering a moment's comfort to a young dying British soldier, little more than a boy, she just held him in her arms as he lay dying, calling for his mother. The IRA murdered her and buried her in an unmarked grave. Fucking animals. There are similar stories concerning the equally fucking disgusting murdering bastards in the UVF too.

As to the issue in hand? I think it is anyone's right to refuse to wear a poppy just as it is anyone's right to wear it. No one should be forced or bullied into wearing it.

But I also think that McClean should have shown some respect for the country he earns his living in and worn it like many Oirish celebs and sportsmen living in Engerland did. If he is that set against it because of some perceived "Britishness" or association with Bloody Sunday then he really should fly home and earn his living in NI or the Republic. I think it's a bit rich of him to earn (relatively) huge money over there but refuse to make a simple gesture like respecting the dead of that country (even though the poppy I believe is used to represent ALL war dead - am I right in that?).

Life is much like brazilianGOONER (waaaaay too short ), we need to learn from the past, learn to live with each other and respect each other's traditions if we want to move on from the carnage and violence and tragedy of this island's last 800 years.

Peace, motherfuckers.

[safcftm]

I think the elephant in the room here might be he felt his family back in Derry might be "safer" if he refused to wear it. I say "might be" as I don't know that for sure, obviously. But I would put nothing past those scumbag IRA crunts, including threatening and indeed killing the very people they talk about "representing" and "defending". These are the people that murdered a young Catholic mother for offering a moment's comfort to a young dying British soldier, little more than a boy, she just held him in her arms as he lay dying, calling for his mother. The IRA murdered her and buried her in an unmarked grave. Fucking animals. There are similar stories concerning the equally fucking disgusting murdering bastards in the UVF too.

As to the issue in hand? I think it is anyone's right to refuse to wear a poppy just as it is anyone's right to wear it. No one should be forced or bullied into wearing it.

But I also think that McClean should have shown some respect for the country he earns his living in and worn it like many Oirish celebs and sportsmen living in Engerland did. If he is that set against it because of some perceived "Britishness" or association with Bloody Sunday then he really should fly home and earn his living in NI or the Republic. I think it's a bit rich of him to earn (relatively) huge money over there but refuse to make a simple gesture like respecting the dead of that country (even though the poppy I believe is used to represent ALL war dead - am I right in that?).

Life is much like brazilianGOONER (waaaaay too short ), we need to learn from the past, learn to live with each other and respect each other's traditions if we want to move on from the carnage and violence and tragedy of this island's last 800 years.

Peace, motherfuckers.

Cracking post, pretty much agree with all of it. If McClean felt that his family might not be safe if he wore the shirt then fair enough but tbh I've seen and heard enough from him to think he's just a daft, bigoted kid, as you say many other Irish lads wear the poppies (including others from Londonderry/ Derry) without repercussions. He's free to decide not to wear it and I'm sure he had his reasons but equally I feel that myself and others should be free to say fuck his reasons and feel that it was an act which, intentionally or otherwise, disrespected the British (and Irish) war dead and that therefore we want him out of our club.

As for the poppy representing all war dead (not just British), I think it does but the poppy appeal itself only raises funds to spend on members/ ex members of the British Armed Forces so I could understand someone thinking that it is pretty much a British Army thing. Anyway, its just a shame that yet again a footballer has to do something to have us talking about something other than football. Its actually getting boring by now, every week there's another "scandal" to discuss, I wish they'd all just get back to playing football for once.