Stop talking Crap About Vieira!!

elpelsarmy · Post by **elpelsarmy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:26 am

Im getting sick and tired of hearing Gooners coming on radio phone-ins etc and justifying Thierrys sale by pointing out that Arsene sold Vieira "at the right time" and making out that since PVs departure he is not the player he was with us and that it will be the same scenario with Thierry.They are basing this on one game as far as i can make out, when Juve came to Highbury and PV was poor throughout. If you read PVs updated book he openly admits to his head being screwed up cos he didnt handle the whole "coming back" thing that night and he was also carrying an injury. Since leaving us he has won TWO Serie A titles and taken France to the world cup final!! Do you honeslty think he would have achieved that if he wasnt still a class player? As someone who watches a lot of Italian football i can tell you that PV is still a superb player, still dominates and controls games and as far as i can see is still every bit as good as he was with us!! It WAS a major mistake to sell him, we havnt replaced him, and we have badly needed him during the last 2 years so stop being so insular Gooners and start seeing the bigger picture eh? The worst thing about the whole thing is that he DIDNT want to leave!!!! I love AW with the rest of you but selling PV WAS a mistake which we are still paying for so lets just be honest with ourselves!

mrmage · Post by **mrmage** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:44 am

but then we wouldn't have been able to play Fab like we do. Which is how we made the CL final..

DDignam · Post by **DDignam** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:45 am

im i mistaken in think Juve were relagated and has that title taken off them for cheating ....

elpelsarmy · Post by **elpelsarmy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:50 am

You are splitting hairs me thinks. ok he effectively has won 2 serie A titles and are you seriously telling me that you wouldnt have preferred a midfield combo of Cesc and PV to that of Cesc and Gilberto?????

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:37 am

I agree with you Elpelsarmy i hate it when fans say we dont miss a player when they leave us when it is obvious we do.The team has definatley gone backwards since PV4 left,Yes we reached the final of the CL but two 4th place finishes in the league prove otherwise.Opposition players used to fear PV4 they dont fear Gilberto.I have nothing against Gilberto but there isn"t a gooner with a brain who doesn"t think PV4 and Fab would be a better partnership.Before PV4 left Gilberto was as popular as Hleb is now. ,Also does anyone really believe we dont miss Bobbie Pires? Lets be honest and admit it when we do miss a player when they leave,I certainly think we are going to miss TH14 big time.

Post by **T.S** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am

Claiming that we sold Patrick Vieira at the right time isn't "talking crap" about him. It is stating an opinion and everyone is entitled to one. If Patrick Vieira didn't want to leave, he didn't have to. It is widely accepted that Arsenal let him go because of year after year of uncertainty over his future. They got tired of hearing that he was off and him refusing to stop the rumours (sound familiar?) so they decided to cash in on him when they could. Yes I would still like him to be in the team, but excuse me if I choose to be positive and think it was good business as opposed to crying over spilt milk. PV4 is a legend. He always will be. But he isn't a part of the team any more, and that's that as far as I'm concerned.

elpelsarmy · Post by **elpelsarmy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:56 am

Of course its all about opinions and my opinion is as above!! the point im trying to make is that we as Gooners have got into the habit of thinking that everyone who leaves us is either past it, lost it and effectively their careers are over. This paints a picture that says that even if these players were still with us they would be rubbish so we sold them at the right time! What is this based on as far as PV is concerned?? When he made the decision not to go to madrid the year before he had every intention of staying for the rest of his career. he was on holiday and got a call from Dein saying that they had accepted an offer from Juve. this was out of the blue, the message was we dont need you, what was he supposed to do?? He didnt want to go and 2 years later that decision still pisses me off!! Thats my opinion.

Post by **T.S** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:09 am

Fair enough. In fact, I agree with you that PV4 has done well since leaving Arsenal. He has not necessarily gone on to bigger and better things, but he's done well. As for the message of "you're not needed any more" the fact is he wasn't. Do you really think the board would have let him go for a cut price fee for a laugh? There was obviously a reason. My guess is that they got pissed off with the fact that it was becoming the trend that every summer he was getting linked with a move away and he was doing nothing to stop these rumours, and therefore, thought his presence was destabilising the team. If this was the case, then fair enough.

It sounds like you're only seeing one side of the story. My bit of advice for you is this; footballers talk shite in autobiographies. I do not waste my time with them. 90% of the things you hear coming out of the club or from any other individual related to football is utter shite. The fact is, no one on this forum really knows what went on there, and it's unlikely we ever will. However, what is true is that there are two sides to every story.

Wow, I spent much longer on that than I wanted to. Sorry about that!

elpelsarmy · Post by **elpelsarmy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:19 am

I agree with your points, i suppose what im really saying is this.... If Thierry has a storming couple of seasons for Barca, wins La Liga and The champs league, lets not turn round in 5 years and say that we sold him at the right time, his career finished the moment he left The Grove and he did F**k all after us!! Unfortunately there is life after us and we should be big enough to admit it rather than sticking our heads up our arses!

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:31 am

In fact the player some Arsenal fans seem to love all of a sudden Le Sulk won the Champions league with Madrid the season after he left us.

Pav · Post by **Pav** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 pm

The simple answer to this is that of course Vieira and Henry are quality, otherwise they would not have signed for Juventus/Inter and Barcelona respectively.

In the same vein Madrid would not have wanted Anelka and Barcelona would not have taken Petit and Overmars.

But this is football and players come and go - that's just the way it is.

Were we worse off for selling Vieira? Maybe, but Fabregas is possibly the best midfielder in Europe and Gilberto has just come off the back of his best ever season this year after being involved in the run to Paris the season before.

I just wish they would be slightly honest about why they want to leave - Henry's comments about Dein and Wenger leave a bit of a nasty taste, why not just admit he's nearly 30 and wants to win the Champs Cup before he retires and feels he has a better chance with Barca rather than Arsenal?

Don't worry - Arsene knows!!

Trevheff · Post by **Trevheff** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:40 pm

At the time of Vieira leaving, one of the rumours doing the rounds was that Arsene was starting to doubt PV's long term fitness. OK we all know what to do with rumours, but his final season with us certainly saw a dip in form compared to his usual standards and I also recall he spent a fair bit of his year at Juve injured. So maybe there was truth in the rumour?? Yes I still think he would have done more than a job for us, but the Premiership is more physically demanding than Serie A so maybe Arsene thought we'd got the best from him and that 50 games a season for a English club was now beyond him?

Lets face it Arsene didn't wake up one more and decide; "I know, I'll sell Patrick Vieira". He obvioulsy had his reasons.

I remember watching Arsenal v Villa at Highbury three seasons ago (last game of the unbeaten run) when we were playing such sublime football and saying to my dad; "It's only in years to come when these players have moved on that we'll realise how lucky we've been. How many clubs have a player like Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Vieira, Freddie, Campbell, Edu or Cole? We've got them all in one team!"

And that's where we are today. You know the saying; "Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all". I'd rather have the pain of losing such legends than never have had the immense joy they've given me over the past few years.

And maybe alot of the stuff we say when players leave is rubbish. I've started saying how maybe Henry moving now will be good for us and move us forward. Do I believe it? Probably not no, but it's my way of councelling myself through the anguish!!

Anyone remember when our midfield was Selley, Jensen, Morrow, McGoldrick???...............................

MK Gould · Post by **MK Gould** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:41 pm

elpelsarmy wrote:....we as Gooners have got into the habit of thinking that everyone who leaves us is either past it, lost it and effectively their careers are over.

This isn't "our habit". Its just telling the truth. The media would love to talk about the mistakes AW & Arsenal made over Viera etc. But they can't, because time and time again its been proved true!! Who have we regretted letting go? NO-ONE!! The jury is probably still out on Henry, although I've been amazed at the number of journo's who think even in his case it probably still holds true. And if he does perform for Barca then isn't it likely that the move gave him the motivation and that he probably wouldn't have done it for us??

elpelsarmy · Post by **elpelsarmy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:59 pm

[quote="MK Gould"][quote="elpelsarmy"]....Who have we regretted letting go? NO-ONE!!

Im obviously unusual here but i certainly regret losing Paddy, Bobby, Edu, Overmars Petit and now Thierry!!! I know u will say that some have been injured after they left but that doesnt mean they would have been injured if they had stayed!! I realise im starting to sound all doom and gloom, im not feeling like that, weve got some fantastic players and i genuinely think we will be ok next season, actually i dont know what i think, i feel as though ive been dumped by my latest girlfriend and then just seen her the next day holding hands with someone else!!!! bollox! shit! twat!!

Eboue Can't Defend · Post by **Eboue Can't Defend** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:36 pm

elpelsarmy,

No, you are not unusual. I absolutely agree with your first post and all the subsequent ones.

I think Trevheff sums it up perfectly with the last paragraph of his post: "And maybe alot of the stuff we say when players leave is rubbish. I've started saying how maybe Henry moving now will be good for us and move us forward. Do I believe it? Probably not no, but it's my way of councelling myself through the anguish!!"