The Gooner Forum

northbank123 wrote:Nos89 I think you hit the root of it there - it would have been unpalatable politically to the campaigners and media outlets to have acknowledged fans behaviour as a contributing factor and in realIty one that a jury would never have reached - in an inquest at least. And let's remember that it is a rather one-sided inquest and not a criminal trial.

One perspective of looking at the verdict that the fans behaviour wasn't a contributing factor is that it basically means that the tragedy would have happened regardless of whichever group of fans were at that end on that day.

There is a conflation of causation and culpability.

Agreed. But for me it also comes down to personal responsibility. Who turns up at a large event without a ticket and decides to push their way in? I don't. Do any of you?

I'm sorry for the loss of life, but to say that fan behaviour had no impact on the tragedy is a politically motivated whitewash of disgusting proportions.

Also, speaking of their fans' behaviour, someone above mentioned hundreds of them will probably try to bunk in to the Europa final? UEFA's estimate was over 5000 ticketless Scousers bunked into the final in Athens. I'd say a couple thousand at least will try and bunk in this year. Given the tragic death of 96 people, and the way Liverpool fans have played that tragedy in the media for a quarter century, any Liverpool fan that tries to bunk in is utter vermin.

DB10GOONER wrote:

northbank123 wrote:Nos89 I think you hit the root of it there - it would have been unpalatable politically to the campaigners and media outlets to have acknowledged fans behaviour as a contributing factor and in realIty one that a jury would never have reached - in an inquest at least. And let's remember that it is a rather one-sided inquest and not a criminal trial.

One perspective of looking at the verdict that the fans behaviour wasn't a contributing factor is that it basically means that the tragedy would have happened regardless of whichever group of fans were at that end on that day.

There is a conflation of causation and culpability.

Agreed. But for me it also comes down to personal responsibility. Who turns up at a large event without a ticket and decides to push their way in? I don't. Do any of you?

I'm sorry for the loss of life, but to say that fan behaviour had no impact on the tragedy is a politically motivated whitewash of disgusting proportions.

Also, speaking of their fans' behaviour, someone above mentioned hundreds of them will probably try to bunk in to the Europa final? UEFA's estimate was over 5000 ticketless Scousers bunked into the final in Athens. I'd say a couple thousand at least will try and bunk in this year. Given the tragic death of 96 people, and the way Liverpool fans have played that tragedy in the media for a quarter century, any Liverpool fan that tries to bunk in is utter vermin.

I'd say it's inevitable; they're only getting 9000 tickets.

Only 9,000 tickets?
I blame Margaret Thatcher and the Sun.
There WILL be carnage.

Doesn't help that 'Klopp is telling fans to travel regardless of whether or not they have tickets.

A load will travel to Basle, act like *word censored*, smash the place up, cause a load of trouble at the turnstiles and then spend the days after moaning about how the stadium should never have been chosen and it wasn't their fault. Every fucking time.

Perryashburtongroves wrote:A load will travel to Basle, act like *word censored*, smash the place up, cause a load of trouble at the turnstiles and then spend the days after moaning about how the stadium should never have been chosen and it wasn't their fault. Every fucking time.

Would any media outlet report any form of hooliganism, vandalism or misbehaveaviour by Liverpool fans ever again? They would be on a hiding to nothing. This has granted them immunity to bad press..

Bradywasking wrote:

Perryashburtongroves wrote:A load will travel to Basle, act like *word censored*, smash the place up, cause a load of trouble at the turnstiles and then spend the days after moaning about how the stadium should never have been chosen and it wasn't their fault. Every fucking time.

Would any media outlet report any form of hooliganism, vandalism or misbehaveaviour by Liverpool fans ever again? They would be on a hiding to nothing. This has granted them immunity to bad press..

Yep, they reported their thuggery and general cuntish behaviour in Athens a few years ago, UEFA said they had evidence over a number of years and labelled them the worst fans in Europe and of course, off they all went again about being picked on, media conspiracy, blah, fucking blah.

Perryashburtongroves wrote:

Bradywasking wrote:

Perryashburtongroves wrote:A load will travel to Basle, act like *word censored*, smash the place up, cause a load of trouble at the turnstiles and then spend the days after moaning about how the stadium should never have been chosen and it wasn't their fault. Every fucking time.

Would any media outlet report any form of hooliganism, vandalism or misbehaveaviour by Liverpool fans ever again? They would be on a hiding to nothing. This has granted them immunity to bad press..

Yep, they reported their thuggery and general cuntish behaviour in Athens a few years ago, UEFA said they had evidence over a number of years and labelled them the worst fans in Europe and of course, off they all went again about being picked on, media conspiracy, blah, fucking blah.

But that was before this whitewash (oops, sorry - inquest). They have been given a license to act the cúnt forever now.

Next up,
Justice for the Sevilla oranges victims.



The irony that "it happens again" only for the victims to blame policing for their ************************************

Hope nobody else gets victimised like poor old Michael Shields.

That pardon was a fucking disgrace, absolute scandal.

Like most of us on here, I sat down to watch it thinking do I want to? Do I need to? etc but last night you saw new footage and 27 years on you're still shocked at what went on.
I don't want to turn this thread into our opinion of them as a club or why Bradford seems to be shamefully forgotten over the years and Heysel etc
The programme just shocked me again at what the higher ranking officers did and you do understand why the families never gave up.
If you haven't seen it I'd recommend you do.

it was very sad to watch. fair play to the families who never gave up the fight for justice.

Didn't see all the programme but hope it is repeated..I agree Eboue-Why, the pain and injustice inflicted on those families was horrendous. The fact is was caused by cover up after cover up made it worse. I am genuinely happy that they are vindicated in their fight..
We all have opinions on other issues of this tragedy but they can be discussed elsewhere.

Bradywasking wrote:Didn't see all the programme but hope it is repeated..I agree Eboue-Why, the pain and injustice inflicted on those families was horrendous. The fact is was caused by cover up after cover up made it worse. I am genuinely happy that they are vindicated in their fight..
We all have opinions on other issues of this tragedy but they can be discussed elsewhere.

Caused by those of scousers turning up late and creating a crush outside. Escalated by severe mis-management by the cops. Distressing and disgraceful by the subsequent cover up

Eboue-Why? wrote:Like most of us on here, I sat down to watch it thinking do I want to? Do I need to? etc but last night you saw new footage and 27 years on you're still shocked at what went on.
I don't want to turn this thread into our opinion of them as a club or why Bradford seems to be shamefully forgotten over the years and Heysel etc
The programme just shocked me again at what the higher ranking officers did and you do understand why the families never gave up.
If you haven't seen it I'd recommend you do.

Sorry, EW? but already a Hillsborough thread in the basement - gonna merge them.