Who can be salvaged?

[dano]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

[NickF]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

To be brutally honest not sure I would keep Ospina, Wellbeck or Perez - they are all Wenger type buys that fill a required position cheaply. There is better out there. Jury is still out on Jeff and Nile. Niles looked ok against Southampton but I thought he was terrible against Preston. The paycheck list are talented and may well flourish under a new manager but not with Wenger.

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

[DB10GOONER]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

Have to agree. Ridiculous to include the likes of Welbeck Perez Mustafi and Ospina in a list of players that can be "salvaged" and in the same breath want to get rid of Ozil the only player with the vision to make a new managers job easier.

A new manager could build the team and system around Sanchez and Ozil and just add a little tactical flexibility and pragmatism.

[northbank123]

Most of them. The quality of squad required to win the title isn't what it was in the 2000s and really one class player and a few other good signings could make us as good as any other side about. A lot of our squad are good enough to be just that - squad players.

I wouldn't be that concerned about shifting out squad players en masse just to replace with other squad players. The key would be moving on some deadwood, replacing with real quality and demoting some regular starters to useful squad players as a result.

I would bomb Ramsey out without a second thought - would fetch a handsome price with Walcott. Cech would be gone. Perez is too slow for the pace of this league. Xhaka would be on very thin ice. Gabriel and BFG I would ship both out.

[flash gunner]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

Have to agree. Ridiculous to include the likes of Welbeck Perez Mustafi and Ospina in a list of players that can be "salvaged" and in the same breath want to get rid of Ozil the only player with the vision to make a new managers job easier.

A new manager could build the team and system around Sanchez and Ozil and just add a little tactical flexibility and pragmatism.

The biggest man crush on Ozil I've ever seen

[DB10GOONER]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

Have to agree. Ridiculous to include the likes of Welbeck Perez Mustafi and Ospina in a list of players that can be "salvaged" and in the same breath want to get rid of Ozil the only player with the vision to make a new managers job easier.

A new manager could build the team and system around Sanchez and Ozil and just add a little tactical flexibility and pragmatism.

The biggest man crush on Ozil I've ever seen

He's the father of my children!

But no seriously he is only the second player since Bergkamp we've had with that level of vision. AA23 was the other one but Wenger destroyed him as a player. They are similar in many ways. Both sublime passers with true vision but also neither are blood and guts scrappers that you'd want beside you in a cage fight of a match.

The less intelligent amongst us call that type of technical player lazy which is just stupid. I remember seeing an Ozil stat that he covers as much and more distance in a game as most players. That's because he's looking for positions to open a defence from.

And there are games where he has been totally ineffective just like DB10 had those games and I'd be the first to call for him to be subbed.

I just believe in the right set up with the right manager a player of Ozil's technical ability and vision could win you a league. In our current set up he is too often not effective and if we persist with Wenger and his system we may as well sell Ozil and Sanchez because they are wasted on us.

[flash gunner]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

Have to agree. Ridiculous to include the likes of Welbeck Perez Mustafi and Ospina in a list of players that can be "salvaged" and in the same breath want to get rid of Ozil the only player with the vision to make a new managers job easier.

A new manager could build the team and system around Sanchez and Ozil and just add a little tactical flexibility and pragmatism.

The biggest man crush on Ozil I've ever seen

He's the father of my children!

But no seriously he is only the second player since Bergkamp we've had with that level of vision. AA23 was the other one but Wenger destroyed him as a player. They are similar in many ways. Both sublime passers with true vision but also neither are blood and guts scrappers that you'd want beside you in a cage fight of a match.

The less intelligent amongst us call that type of technical player lazy which is just stupid. I remember seeing an Ozil stat that he covers as much and more distance in a game as most players. That's because he's looking for positions to open a defence from.

And there are games where he has been totally ineffective just like DB10 had those games and I'd be the first to call for him to be subbed.

I just believe in the right set up with the right manager a player of Ozil's technical ability and vision could win you a league. In our current set up he is too often not effective and if we persist with Wenger and his system we may as well sell Ozil and Sanchez because they are wasted on us.

Anyway i'm not as big a fan of Ozil as you, although i think hes an excellent player i also think hes a luxury player that playing with the players we currently have doesn't work. He would do well in the company of Vieira, Henry, Ljungberg who would do the running for him but now? im not sure

[DB10GOONER]

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

Have to agree. Ridiculous to include the likes of Welbeck Perez Mustafi and Ospina in a list of players that can be "salvaged" and in the same breath want to get rid of Ozil the only player with the vision to make a new managers job easier.

A new manager could build the team and system around Sanchez and Ozil and just add a little tactical flexibility and pragmatism.

The biggest man crush on Ozil I've ever seen

He's the father of my children!

But no seriously he is only the second player since Bergkamp we've had with that level of vision. AA23 was the other one but Wenger destroyed him as a player. They are similar in many ways. Both sublime passers with true vision but also neither are blood and guts scrappers that you'd want beside you in a cage fight of a match.

The less intelligent amongst us call that type of technical player lazy which is just stupid. I remember seeing an Ozil stat that he covers as much and more distance in a game as most players. That's because he's looking for positions to open a defence from.

And there are games where he has been totally ineffective just like DB10 had those games and I'd be the first to call for him to be subbed.

I just believe in the right set up with the right manager a player of Ozil's technical ability and vision could win you a league. In our current set up he is too often not effective and if we persist with Wenger and his system we may as well sell Ozil and Sanchez because they are wasted on us.

Anyway i'm not as big a fan of Ozil as you, although i think hes an excellent player i also think hes a luxury player that playing with the players we currently have doesn't work. He would do well in the company of Vieira, Henry, Ljungberg who would do the running for him but now? im not sure

I have to agree totally Flash. He does not suit our system or the level of player we have. But it would really piss me off to miss the opportunity a player of his class gives us like we missed it with AA23. And all because our fucking idiot of a manager has an ego that tells him no matter how good the player is, the player must bow down and fit into the genius manager's system...

[DB10GOONER]

Couple of interesting articles from 2015 on the myth of Ozil's "laziness". Yeah its 2 years ago but it was at a time when he was getting heavily criticised for being lazy. The Guardian article in particular gives a good read on both his good and bad points.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.standard ... html%3famp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -lazy.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ene-wenger

[arseofacrow]

It's not so much his laziness, as that's lazy thinking, more his inability to make his mark on games (when given the freedom to do so) and especially when it's really required. He's not alone in this but it's something that's infuriated fans of Werder Bremen, Schalke and the German national team. It's not a new thing.

Perhaps he needs the whole team to be created around him. Whatever it is, he needs to look at himself and take responsibility. He's good enough.

[DB10GOONER]

It's not so much his laziness, as that's lazy thinking, more his inability to make his mark on games (when given the freedom to do so) and especially when it's really required. He's not alone in this but it's something that's infuriated fans of Werder Bremen, Schalke and the German national team. It's not a new thing.

Perhaps he needs the whole team to be created around him. Whatever it is, he needs to look at himself and take responsibility. He's good enough.

He's certainly a player that relies on the quality around him no doubt.

He was 17 when he joined Schalke and only stayed 2 seasons so we can pretty much discount what their fans thought of him tbh. At Schalke and Werder He didn't have that quality of player around him but at Madrid he did and the fans and players there saw the best of him. Even the ladyboy who praises no one but himself said Ozil was the best number 10 for supplying assists that he'd ever played with and openly criticised the clubs decision to sell him.

His performance level for the German national side is an odd thing though. He is certainly surrounded by quality players there but hasn't delivered like you'd expect. Maybe he's not really suited to their style and has struggled because of this. Having said that he was brilliant for Germany in the 2010 world cup and both Madrid and the Whores and allegedly us and manure were in for him after that tournament.

He's not perfect but if we used him in the right system with a top striker in front of him he'd deliver chances and assists by the bag full.

[DB10GOONER]

It's not so much his laziness, as that's lazy thinking, more his inability to make his mark on games (when given the freedom to do so) and especially when it's really required.

Actually I don't fully agree with that point. His style is languid so he often looks like he is just strolling through games when in fact he is creating chances and space and putting other players through with deft passing. He's not an Henry type player that storms through defences. He uses the ball economically.

Last season when Giroud went off the boil and Ozil missed Henry's PL assist record by 2 assists he was still creating dozens of chances that Giroud failed to convert into assists by scoring.

Tbh I've now even bored myself talking about Ozil.

[augie]

with this group of bottlers. mental weaklings, and just showing up without putting in a shift, if (someday) we have a manager that coaches, does tactics, and puts some fire into the team, who can be salvaged to continue with the team?

For me:
Alexis, Bellerin, Ospina, Kos, Perez, Ox, Iwobi, Santi, Wellbeck, Mustafi, the Jeff, and Niles would be starter or squad

The rest would have to go (that includes Ozil, Walcott, Cech, Ramsey). These look to be just playing for the paycheck.

I'll agree with your list except that Ozil is clearly good enough to be "salvaged", he just needs a manager that will hold him accountable, and team mates that don't suck.

Have to agree. Ridiculous to include the likes of Welbeck Perez Mustafi and Ospina in a list of players that can be "salvaged" and in the same breath want to get rid of Ozil the only player with the vision to make a new managers job easier.

A new manager could build the team and system around Sanchez and Ozil and just add a little tactical flexibility and pragmatism.

The biggest man crush on Ozil I've ever seen

He's the father of my children!

But no seriously he is only the second player since Bergkamp we've had with that level of vision. AA23 was the other one but Wenger destroyed him as a player. They are similar in many ways. Both sublime passers with true vision but also neither are blood and guts scrappers that you'd want beside you in a cage fight of a match.

The less intelligent amongst us call that type of technical player lazy which is just stupid. I remember seeing an Ozil stat that he covers as much and more distance in a game as most players. That's because he's looking for positions to open a defence from.

And there are games where he has been totally ineffective just like DB10 had those games and I'd be the first to call for him to be subbed.

I just believe in the right set up with the right manager a player of Ozil's technical ability and vision could win you a league. In our current set up he is too often not effective and if we persist with Wenger and his system we may as well sell Ozil and Sanchez because they are wasted on us.

Or maybe he is looking for spaces to hide away in ? I'm not saying that I believe that, but by the same token I don't take stats like distance covered as a defence for the lazy tag. What I do see is a man who never pushes himself to win the 50/50 tackles, and who rarely pushes himself to chase back to help out the team - is that the definition of lazy ? Probably not in a physical sense, but it certainly suggests (to me anyway) a lazy attitude when he strolls around the place
As I said at the weekend, I have defended ozil more than most (obviously not more than DB10 ), but the chav game finished that for me - I know that winning tackles and hassling opponents is not what he does best, but if he hasn't worked it out in his brain yet that to make a team successful players sometimes need to get down and dirty, then he is of no use to us and I would sell him for a player who may not be as good technically, but who has a team first ethos

Btw, in a similar scenario to wenker, I don't see too many clubs being linked with having an interest in him anymore - yes he still has 16 months left on his contract but so has sanchez and most of the top European clubs are being linked with him. His willingness to stay may well be determined by a lack of better options out there

[arseofacrow]

It's not so much his laziness, as that's lazy thinking, more his inability to make his mark on games (when given the freedom to do so) and especially when it's really required.

Actually I don't fully agree with that point. His style is languid so he often looks like he is just strolling through games when in fact he is creating chances and space and putting other players through with deft passing. He's not an Henry type player that storms through defences. He uses the ball economically.

Last season when Giroud went off the boil and Ozil missed Henry's PL assist record by 2 assists he was still creating dozens of chances that Giroud failed to convert into assists by scoring.

Tbh I've now even bored myself talking about Ozil.

Good!