As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
DB10GOONER wrote:
No one is saying Kroenke is the only problem or excusing Wenger, mate. But if Wenger is the root problem, why has he not been sacked? Ask yourself, who is Wenger's employer? Who is his boss? Kroenke. He has the power to hire and fire. He sees nothing wrong in Wenger's mismanagement of the football side of the club.
Put it this way; as a football man, if you bought Arsenal FC tomorrow what is the first thing you would do for the health of the football club? And why would you do it?
Im a football man the first thing i would do is sack Wenger use all of the profits and buy a manager and team worthy of the name Arsenal. Kronke is NOT a football man and so as long as the profits rise he doesnt care what happens on the pitch, if they fall he will sack people im sure but while his first love is money he will (at this point in time) be happy.
Wenger is our 'football' man at the club he is the one who should be banging some heads together to get a team that is good enough to challenge, he isn't, he is too clever for his own good thinking he is a financial whizz too and while the profits roll in Kronke is happy..... Im no Kronke fan but until we get a proper football man at the club or the $$$$ dry up we will never succeed
But you don't agree that Kroenke is responsible for allowing Wenger to continue unabated? Really? He owns the club! He's Wenger's boss ffs!
Right you're the owner of a car manufacturer/sales garage, you couldn't care less about cars and rarely even go there, its one of many business' you own and they all do pretty well but your manager of the car place makes you loads of cash from all aspects of the business and the cash keep rolling in. The cars are not as good quality as they once were but you get new houses, boats, holidays anything you want as the suckers keep buying the cars and half of them or more don't seem too worried that the standard of the cars have gone down.......
Would YOU sack him?
Huh? Flash, have you been at Hlebby's stash? What the flying lesbian fuck has it got to do with cars?!!
Mate, you are basically repeating my point that Kroenke is not a football man but a business man - we all know that. But for me that is the problem. He enables Wenger to continue to fail because it suits his business agenda and that is terrible for a football club and its fans, if those fans want to see trophies being won.
For me, you simply cannot compare football with any other industry. Historically, clubs were often kept afloat by a rich chairman and/or rich board members that were football people, that wanted on field success more than anything else - and this often enough was a terrible way to run a club because when the personal money ran out the club was fucked because it had no sustainable business model to generate the needed income. No car dealership was ever run that way, but most football clubs were up until recently and a good few still are.
Kroenke is the other extreme - he does not invest a penny for the benefit of the club, team or fans. He does not give a shit about on field success or trophies. He only cares about growing his investment.
For us the fans, Kroenke is the worst type of owner because he will not sack the supposed football man, the manager, that has failed to deliver on field success or trophies for over a decade.
I mentioned the cars thing because you asked if i owned Arsenal what would i do? different analogies.....
Im no fan of Kroenke but i can see why he is happy. It should be Wenger (our footballing man at the club) who should be banging heads together for the sake of the footballing side, he isn't. We have never had a rich business man type who has pumped millions into the club would we want that? Personally i would but i bet im the minority
flash gunner wrote:
Im a football man the first thing i would do is sack Wenger use all of the profits and buy a manager and team worthy of the name Arsenal. Kronke is NOT a football man and so as long as the profits rise he doesnt care what happens on the pitch, if they fall he will sack people im sure but while his first love is money he will (at this point in time) be happy.
Wenger is our 'football' man at the club he is the one who should be banging some heads together to get a team that is good enough to challenge, he isn't, he is too clever for his own good thinking he is a financial whizz too and while the profits roll in Kronke is happy..... Im no Kronke fan but until we get a proper football man at the club or the $$$$ dry up we will never succeed
But you don't agree that Kroenke is responsible for allowing Wenger to continue unabated? Really? He owns the club! He's Wenger's boss ffs!
Right you're the owner of a car manufacturer/sales garage, you couldn't care less about cars and rarely even go there, its one of many business' you own and they all do pretty well but your manager of the car place makes you loads of cash from all aspects of the business and the cash keep rolling in. The cars are not as good quality as they once were but you get new houses, boats, holidays anything you want as the suckers keep buying the cars and half of them or more don't seem too worried that the standard of the cars have gone down.......
Would YOU sack him?
Huh? Flash, have you been at Hlebby's stash? What the flying lesbian fuck has it got to do with cars?!!
Mate, you are basically repeating my point that Kroenke is not a football man but a business man - we all know that. But for me that is the problem. He enables Wenger to continue to fail because it suits his business agenda and that is terrible for a football club and its fans, if those fans want to see trophies being won.
For me, you simply cannot compare football with any other industry. Historically, clubs were often kept afloat by a rich chairman and/or rich board members that were football people, that wanted on field success more than anything else - and this often enough was a terrible way to run a club because when the personal money ran out the club was fucked because it had no sustainable business model to generate the needed income. No car dealership was ever run that way, but most football clubs were up until recently and a good few still are.
Kroenke is the other extreme - he does not invest a penny for the benefit of the club, team or fans. He does not give a shit about on field success or trophies. He only cares about growing his investment.
For us the fans, Kroenke is the worst type of owner because he will not sack the supposed football man, the manager, that has failed to deliver on field success or trophies for over a decade.
I mentioned the cars thing because you asked if i owned Arsenal what would i do? different analogies.....
Im no fan of Kroenke but i can see why he is happy. It should be Wenger (our footballing man at the club) who should be banging heads together for the sake of the footballing side, he isn't. We have never had a rich business man type who has pumped millions into the club would we want that? Personally i would but i bet im the minority
But do you not think that if an employee cannot do their job (Wenger the football man not banging heads together for the sake of the football side etc) then the onus is on the owner to replace them?
My key point is of course Kroenke is happy, so is just replacing Wenger enough? What is to stop the next manager just doing what Wenger has done to date? Where does that leave us the fans? No better off... that's why I want Wenger gone but also want Kroenke gone ASAP too. We need football people owning and running our football club.
DB10GOONER wrote:
But you don't agree that Kroenke is responsible for allowing Wenger to continue unabated? Really? He owns the club! He's Wenger's boss ffs!
Right you're the owner of a car manufacturer/sales garage, you couldn't care less about cars and rarely even go there, its one of many business' you own and they all do pretty well but your manager of the car place makes you loads of cash from all aspects of the business and the cash keep rolling in. The cars are not as good quality as they once were but you get new houses, boats, holidays anything you want as the suckers keep buying the cars and half of them or more don't seem too worried that the standard of the cars have gone down.......
Would YOU sack him?
Huh? Flash, have you been at Hlebby's stash? What the flying lesbian fuck has it got to do with cars?!!
Mate, you are basically repeating my point that Kroenke is not a football man but a business man - we all know that. But for me that is the problem. He enables Wenger to continue to fail because it suits his business agenda and that is terrible for a football club and its fans, if those fans want to see trophies being won.
For me, you simply cannot compare football with any other industry. Historically, clubs were often kept afloat by a rich chairman and/or rich board members that were football people, that wanted on field success more than anything else - and this often enough was a terrible way to run a club because when the personal money ran out the club was fucked because it had no sustainable business model to generate the needed income. No car dealership was ever run that way, but most football clubs were up until recently and a good few still are.
Kroenke is the other extreme - he does not invest a penny for the benefit of the club, team or fans. He does not give a shit about on field success or trophies. He only cares about growing his investment.
For us the fans, Kroenke is the worst type of owner because he will not sack the supposed football man, the manager, that has failed to deliver on field success or trophies for over a decade.
I mentioned the cars thing because you asked if i owned Arsenal what would i do? different analogies.....
Im no fan of Kroenke but i can see why he is happy. It should be Wenger (our footballing man at the club) who should be banging heads together for the sake of the footballing side, he isn't. We have never had a rich business man type who has pumped millions into the club would we want that? Personally i would but i bet im the minority
But do you not think that if an employee cannot do their job (Wenger the football man not banging heads together for the sake of the football side etc) then the onus is on the owner to replace them?
My key point is of course Kroenke is happy, so is just replacing Wenger enough? What is to stop the next manager just doing what Wenger has done to date? Where does that leave us the fans? No better off... that's why I want Wenger gone but also want Kroenke gone ASAP too. We need football people owning and running our football club.
we're going round in circles mate. You say football is not like any other business but to Kroenke it is just a business, he doesnt care if its cars, coal or football and as far as Kroenke is concerned the employee is doing a great job so why replace them?
I agree we have the nightmare scenario where Wenger is repalced by a Wenger clone and it all continues, the only difference will be he wont have the 'credit' stacked up from the Invincibles etc so will be easier to get rid and would have more fan protests etc
- Minimal player acquisitions and a general lack of activity during the offseason, especially if rebuilding is the actual plan for 2017
- The unbalanced trade that sent Sam Cronin and Marc Burch to Minnesota in exchange for unproven prospects and vague promises of future acquisitions
Sounds slightly familiar......don't worry lads. I'm sure if you fire your manager everything will be ok
- Minimal player acquisitions and a general lack of activity during the offseason, especially if rebuilding is the actual plan for 2017
- The unbalanced trade that sent Sam Cronin and Marc Burch to Minnesota in exchange for unproven prospects and vague promises of future acquisitions
Sounds slightly familiar......don't worry lads. I'm sure if you fire your manager everything will be ok
Those ungrateful bastards need to be told to be careful what they wish for.
Vague promises of future acquisitions ?
I hope their virtual team isn't better than ours.
- Minimal player acquisitions and a general lack of activity during the offseason, especially if rebuilding is the actual plan for 2017
- The unbalanced trade that sent Sam Cronin and Marc Burch to Minnesota in exchange for unproven prospects and vague promises of future acquisitions
Sounds slightly familiar......don't worry lads. I'm sure if you fire your manager everything will be ok
Those ungrateful bastards need to be told to be careful what they wish for.
Vague promises of future acquisitions ? I hope their virtual team isn't better than ours.
Don't worry about that mate - our Virtual XI are world beaters.
Heard the one about football's brightest talent right now.......apparently we were close to signing him a year ago
flash gunner wrote:
Right you're the owner of a car manufacturer/sales garage, you couldn't care less about cars and rarely even go there, its one of many business' you own and they all do pretty well but your manager of the car place makes you loads of cash from all aspects of the business and the cash keep rolling in. The cars are not as good quality as they once were but you get new houses, boats, holidays anything you want as the suckers keep buying the cars and half of them or more don't seem too worried that the standard of the cars have gone down.......
Would YOU sack him?
Huh? Flash, have you been at Hlebby's stash? What the flying lesbian fuck has it got to do with cars?!!
Mate, you are basically repeating my point that Kroenke is not a football man but a business man - we all know that. But for me that is the problem. He enables Wenger to continue to fail because it suits his business agenda and that is terrible for a football club and its fans, if those fans want to see trophies being won.
For me, you simply cannot compare football with any other industry. Historically, clubs were often kept afloat by a rich chairman and/or rich board members that were football people, that wanted on field success more than anything else - and this often enough was a terrible way to run a club because when the personal money ran out the club was fucked because it had no sustainable business model to generate the needed income. No car dealership was ever run that way, but most football clubs were up until recently and a good few still are.
Kroenke is the other extreme - he does not invest a penny for the benefit of the club, team or fans. He does not give a shit about on field success or trophies. He only cares about growing his investment.
For us the fans, Kroenke is the worst type of owner because he will not sack the supposed football man, the manager, that has failed to deliver on field success or trophies for over a decade.
I mentioned the cars thing because you asked if i owned Arsenal what would i do? different analogies.....
Im no fan of Kroenke but i can see why he is happy. It should be Wenger (our footballing man at the club) who should be banging heads together for the sake of the footballing side, he isn't. We have never had a rich business man type who has pumped millions into the club would we want that? Personally i would but i bet im the minority
But do you not think that if an employee cannot do their job (Wenger the football man not banging heads together for the sake of the football side etc) then the onus is on the owner to replace them?
My key point is of course Kroenke is happy, so is just replacing Wenger enough? What is to stop the next manager just doing what Wenger has done to date? Where does that leave us the fans? No better off... that's why I want Wenger gone but also want Kroenke gone ASAP too. We need football people owning and running our football club.
we're going round in circles mate. You say football is not like any other business but to Kroenke it is just a business, he doesnt care if its cars, coal or football and as far as Kroenke is concerned the employee is doing a great job so why replace them?
I agree we have the nightmare scenario where Wenger is repalced by a Wenger clone and it all continues, the only difference will be he wont have the 'credit' stacked up from the Invincibles etc so will be easier to get rid and would have more fan protests etc
Kroenke won't find another 'Wenger' when the fraud is gone and it's a point some people are deliberately missing.
The board's remit is simple - support the new manager, make funds available and of course fire his arse when he doesn't deliver within a stipulated period. They are failing at only one at the moment.
- Minimal player acquisitions and a general lack of activity during the offseason, especially if rebuilding is the actual plan for 2017
- The unbalanced trade that sent Sam Cronin and Marc Burch to Minnesota in exchange for unproven prospects and vague promises of future acquisitions
Sounds slightly familiar......don't worry lads. I'm sure if you fire your manager everything will be ok
Those ungrateful bastards need to be told to be careful what they wish for.
Vague promises of future acquisitions ? I hope their virtual team isn't better than ours.
Don't worry about that mate - our Virtual XI are world beaters.
Heard the one about football's brightest talent right now.......apparently we were close to signing him a year ago
History and Common Sense tell me that Mbappe wouldn't be the 'rising star' he currently is if we had signed him simply because under wenger's mis-management he would be 'doing a Perez' and either keeping the bench warm 99% of the time and when/if played he would be on the wing. He had a lucky escape.
DB10GOONER wrote:For all the hero worship Dein gets on here it should be remembered that he was one of the prime movers behind the gentrification of football. So when you are having a moan about that hipster cúnt that arrives late, plays with his iPad, and leaves early, you can thank David Dein for that.
I think Dein knew he fucked up and was trying to get the board to go with Usmanov. They were in lock down and must have decided on Kroenke and sacked Dein. Look at Arsenal with Dein 1983 to 2007 and then look at Arsenal without Dein 2007 to 2017. Record speaks for itself.
Dein fooked up by trying to get Bracewell-Smith to flog her shares to Stan so he could wrestle control of the boardroom from Fiszman who was still calling the shots. Bitch snitched and it was curtains for him.
[quote="General"]Dein fooked up by trying to get Bracewell-Smith to flog her shares to Stan so he could wrestle control of the boardroom from Fiszman who was still calling the shots. Bitch snitched and it was curtains for him.[/quote
I didn't know the truth of what happened. So Dein was siding with Kroenke before he finally took over. Well the club miss him as he was a pivotal member of the board room but leaving us in Kroenke control is a bitter pill to swallow.
DB10GOONER wrote:
Huh? Flash, have you been at Hlebby's stash? What the flying lesbian fuck has it got to do with cars?!!
Mate, you are basically repeating my point that Kroenke is not a football man but a business man - we all know that. But for me that is the problem. He enables Wenger to continue to fail because it suits his business agenda and that is terrible for a football club and its fans, if those fans want to see trophies being won.
For me, you simply cannot compare football with any other industry. Historically, clubs were often kept afloat by a rich chairman and/or rich board members that were football people, that wanted on field success more than anything else - and this often enough was a terrible way to run a club because when the personal money ran out the club was fucked because it had no sustainable business model to generate the needed income. No car dealership was ever run that way, but most football clubs were up until recently and a good few still are.
Kroenke is the other extreme - he does not invest a penny for the benefit of the club, team or fans. He does not give a shit about on field success or trophies. He only cares about growing his investment.
For us the fans, Kroenke is the worst type of owner because he will not sack the supposed football man, the manager, that has failed to deliver on field success or trophies for over a decade.
I mentioned the cars thing because you asked if i owned Arsenal what would i do? different analogies.....
Im no fan of Kroenke but i can see why he is happy. It should be Wenger (our footballing man at the club) who should be banging heads together for the sake of the footballing side, he isn't. We have never had a rich business man type who has pumped millions into the club would we want that? Personally i would but i bet im the minority
But do you not think that if an employee cannot do their job (Wenger the football man not banging heads together for the sake of the football side etc) then the onus is on the owner to replace them?
My key point is of course Kroenke is happy, so is just replacing Wenger enough? What is to stop the next manager just doing what Wenger has done to date? Where does that leave us the fans? No better off... that's why I want Wenger gone but also want Kroenke gone ASAP too. We need football people owning and running our football club.
we're going round in circles mate. You say football is not like any other business but to Kroenke it is just a business, he doesnt care if its cars, coal or football and as far as Kroenke is concerned the employee is doing a great job so why replace them?
I agree we have the nightmare scenario where Wenger is repalced by a Wenger clone and it all continues, the only difference will be he wont have the 'credit' stacked up from the Invincibles etc so will be easier to get rid and would have more fan protests etc
Kroenke won't find another 'Wenger' when the fraud is gone and it's a point some people are deliberately missing.
The board's remit is simple - support the new manager, make funds available and of course fire his arse when he doesn't deliver within a stipulated period. They are failing at only one at the moment.
Do you deliberately not read what people post before jumping in?
No one said Kroenke will find another "Wenger". The issue is what is to stop the next manager starting with good intentions and then realising the owner only requires the bare minimum delivery and not footballing success in the form of trophies, leading to the new manager slipping into the same low delivery mode we have with Wenger? What is the fail safe? Obviously not the board or the owner!
You say "The board's remit is simple - support the new manager, make funds available and of course fire his arse when he doesn't deliver within a stipulated period. They are failing at only one at the moment" the problem is it's the biggest one!
I mentioned the cars thing because you asked if i owned Arsenal what would i do? different analogies.....
Im no fan of Kroenke but i can see why he is happy. It should be Wenger (our footballing man at the club) who should be banging heads together for the sake of the footballing side, he isn't. We have never had a rich business man type who has pumped millions into the club would we want that? Personally i would but i bet im the minority
But do you not think that if an employee cannot do their job (Wenger the football man not banging heads together for the sake of the football side etc) then the onus is on the owner to replace them?
My key point is of course Kroenke is happy, so is just replacing Wenger enough? What is to stop the next manager just doing what Wenger has done to date? Where does that leave us the fans? No better off... that's why I want Wenger gone but also want Kroenke gone ASAP too. We need football people owning and running our football club.
we're going round in circles mate. You say football is not like any other business but to Kroenke it is just a business, he doesnt care if its cars, coal or football and as far as Kroenke is concerned the employee is doing a great job so why replace them?
I agree we have the nightmare scenario where Wenger is repalced by a Wenger clone and it all continues, the only difference will be he wont have the 'credit' stacked up from the Invincibles etc so will be easier to get rid and would have more fan protests etc
Kroenke won't find another 'Wenger' when the fraud is gone and it's a point some people are deliberately missing.
The board's remit is simple - support the new manager, make funds available and of course fire his arse when he doesn't deliver within a stipulated period. They are failing at only one at the moment.
Do you deliberately not read what people post before jumping in?
No one said Kroenke will find another "Wenger". The issue is what is to stop the next manager starting with good intentions and then realising the owner only requires the bare minimum delivery and not footballing success in the form of trophies, leading to the new manager slipping into the same low delivery mode we have with Wenger? What is the fail safe? Obviously not the board or the owner!
You say "The board's remit is simple - support the new manager, make funds available and of course fire his arse when he doesn't deliver within a stipulated period. They are failing at only one at the moment" the problem is it's the biggest one!
??
I’m not sure why you’re having a pop at me. I understood the point and wasn’t having a dig.
Kroenke may well make a low key appointment and not champion footballing success but he sure will care about the success of the business and would want to safeguard his investment. A conservative football strategy combined with a profitable business is not something you’d get away with in the present climate, certainly not for a club of our size and business model. Wenger got away with this for years thanks to a range of factors and now he’s paying a heavy price for it. The football and the results have never been this bad especially when you consider the level of investment. I don’t think anyone could just waltz into Wenger’s job and carry on like it is business as usual. Whoever it is would be inheriting a messy salvage operation and it won’t be cheap. We are now one of the highest spenders in the league and the days of other teams leaving the top 4 door ajar for us are long gone. Kroenke cannot allow things to drift without paying a heavy financial penalty even if he has little interest in winning trophies. I suspect the reality of life post Wenger would be very different from the hypotheticals people are suggesting.