As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
without a doubt the long-term Arsenal manager. Its undeniable now.
He's also confirming himself as a manager who has the right to be considered in the young elite class.
Does that mean that Frank Schmitt (FC Heidenheim manager), Thomas Letsch (ex Bochum manager) and Ole Werner (werder bremen manager) are all elite too ?? These 3 nobodies all beat a struggling bayern team whilst managing small clubs with meagre resources, whilst the great cone boy was exposed again and was lucky to get a draw
The only thing that could trigger a mass exodus of players right now is actually the manager deciding to leave himself. Would introduce uncertainty and leave a few pondering their future.
No one mentioned now.
The original question was if no trophies are won in the next two seasons after this.
Depends on the margin of failure really. If we are 7th and adrift again then yes players will leave.
In scenarios similar like ours currently where we are competing at the top I’d say it’s still unlikely. Players on a decent wage and jumping ship to sides we are capable of beating ourselves wouldn’t be likely. Also I got the impression the current crop feels indebted to the manager a bit and more loyal.
Football is a fickle game. Under Wenger we had players who referred to him as such a wonderful father figure and indebted to him etc, but once their reputation in the game soared, season after season of just being top 4 with the odd FA Cup wasn't enough. Van Persie, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabregas, Clichy, Sagna etc etc - all players who would speak about Wenger in glowing terms, all of whom played in teams regularly getting to the last 8 (or further) in the CL and always being in the top 4. Eventually though those levels aren't enough. Barca, Man U, Citeh became a bigger draw. Not that we were shit.....we just weren't quite that top, top level when it came to the biggest prizes. Once RvP scored 30 goals in a season, once Cesc was a top Spanish international surrounded by Barca and Real lads......there came a moment where they need to take the next step. How many years of just being 'top 4' PL, 'top 8' Europe would Saka, Martinelli, Rice, Odegaard etc take before Real or City persuaded them otherwise?
I think the key thing is that during the wenger period those players knew the club couldn’t financially compete and that 3rd or 4th was as good as it got. Hence we struggled to renew contracts for key players.
Nowadays we are capable of beating anyone on our day. Financially better off due to the new sponsorship deals and aren’t laden with stadium debt as much,
Unless we drop out of the champions league qualification I honestly can’t see an exodus right now even in a couple of years.
The only thing that could trigger a mass exodus of players right now is actually the manager deciding to leave himself. Would introduce uncertainty and leave a few pondering their future.
No one mentioned now.
The original question was if no trophies are won in the next two seasons after this.
Depends on the margin of failure really. If we are 7th and adrift again then yes players will leave.
In scenarios similar like ours currently where we are competing at the top I’d say it’s still unlikely. Players on a decent wage and jumping ship to sides we are capable of beating ourselves wouldn’t be likely. Also I got the impression the current crop feels indebted to the manager a bit and more loyal.
Football is a fickle game. Under Wenger we had players who referred to him as such a wonderful father figure and indebted to him etc, but once their reputation in the game soared, season after season of just being top 4 with the odd FA Cup wasn't enough. Van Persie, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabregas, Clichy, Sagna etc etc - all players who would speak about Wenger in glowing terms, all of whom played in teams regularly getting to the last 8 (or further) in the CL and always being in the top 4. Eventually though those levels aren't enough. Barca, Man U, Citeh became a bigger draw. Not that we were shit.....we just weren't quite that top, top level when it came to the biggest prizes. Once RvP scored 30 goals in a season, once Cesc was a top Spanish international surrounded by Barca and Real lads......there came a moment where they need to take the next step. How many years of just being 'top 4' PL, 'top 8' Europe would Saka, Martinelli, Rice, Odegaard etc take before Real or City persuaded them otherwise?
I think the key thing is that during the wenger period those players knew the club couldn’t financially compete and that 3rd or 4th was as good as it got. Hence we struggled to renew contracts for key players.
Nowadays we are capable of beating anyone on our day. Financially better off due to the new sponsorship deals and aren’t laden with stadium debt as much,
Unless we drop out of the champions league qualification I honestly can’t see an exodus right now even in a couple of years.
Time will tell. Once they reach elite status, that is the acid test. Kane is the prime example. In most recent seasons the vermin were in the CL and even made the final in 2019. He was by far their highest earning player ever but every year the trophy wait went on, the stats would be brought up time and time again. He's got the England captain profile and surrounded by lads from City, plus the likes of Bellingham that are winning at all. Saka will face that dilemma every time his contract approaches the last year or two if all he has to show for his time here is an FA Cup and Community Shield. The pressure mounts as the years roll by.
The original question was if no trophies are won in the next two seasons after this.
Depends on the margin of failure really. If we are 7th and adrift again then yes players will leave.
In scenarios similar like ours currently where we are competing at the top I’d say it’s still unlikely. Players on a decent wage and jumping ship to sides we are capable of beating ourselves wouldn’t be likely. Also I got the impression the current crop feels indebted to the manager a bit and more loyal.
Football is a fickle game. Under Wenger we had players who referred to him as such a wonderful father figure and indebted to him etc, but once their reputation in the game soared, season after season of just being top 4 with the odd FA Cup wasn't enough. Van Persie, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabregas, Clichy, Sagna etc etc - all players who would speak about Wenger in glowing terms, all of whom played in teams regularly getting to the last 8 (or further) in the CL and always being in the top 4. Eventually though those levels aren't enough. Barca, Man U, Citeh became a bigger draw. Not that we were shit.....we just weren't quite that top, top level when it came to the biggest prizes. Once RvP scored 30 goals in a season, once Cesc was a top Spanish international surrounded by Barca and Real lads......there came a moment where they need to take the next step. How many years of just being 'top 4' PL, 'top 8' Europe would Saka, Martinelli, Rice, Odegaard etc take before Real or City persuaded them otherwise?
I think the key thing is that during the wenger period those players knew the club couldn’t financially compete and that 3rd or 4th was as good as it got. Hence we struggled to renew contracts for key players.
Nowadays we are capable of beating anyone on our day. Financially better off due to the new sponsorship deals and aren’t laden with stadium debt as much,
Unless we drop out of the champions league qualification I honestly can’t see an exodus right now even in a couple of years.
Time will tell. Once they reach elite status, that is the acid test. Kane is the prime example. In most recent seasons the vermin were in the CL and even made the final in 2019. He was by far their highest earning player ever but every year the trophy wait went on, the stats would be brought up time and time again. He's got the England captain profile and surrounded by lads from City, plus the likes of Bellingham that are winning at all. Saka will face that dilemma every time his contract approaches the last year or two if all he has to show for his time here is an FA Cup and Community Shield. The pressure mounts as the years roll by.
Spot on SteveO. If the years go by and were still the nearly men our jewels could be tempted elsewhere.
Get fucking rid. No top manager has so many blind spots with shit players. Lobotomy Clive all last season and before - and then CliveChenko this season. No idea how to manage in game. Elite my bollocks.
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most. Top 4 regularity and CL last 8 glory awaits again - yay, here's to another nothing decade
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most. Top 4 regularity and CL last 8 glory awaits again - yay, here's to another nothing decade
This is true. And we'll get the usual suspects saying that's good enough, and we are progressing and blah blah blah. Yes, if we were Luton or fucking Sheffield Wednesday I'd say yes that is acceptable, but no we the Arsenal with some of the most expensive match tickets and some of the highest paid players in the game. It is not "entitled" to demand success from a club that charges those prices and employs players on north of £100k and £200k per week.
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most. Top 4 regularity and CL last 8 glory awaits again - yay, here's to another nothing decade
This is true. And we'll get the usual suspects saying that's good enough, and we are progressing and blah blah blah. Yes, if we were Luton or fucking Sheffield Wednesday I'd say yes that is acceptable, but no we the Arsenal with some of the most expensive match tickets and some of the highest paid players in the game. It is not "entitled" to demand success from a club that charges those prices and employs players on north of £100k and £200k per week.
It's also not "entitled" to expect- just once- that the team shows the mental resolve and courage when it matters most. Hey, even Trampy Shipman and Dilly Ding Ranieri did it once
Best defence in the league since Xmas - Kiwior playing nearly all the games
Best attack since Xmas - Havertz playing up front and non scoring Jesus nowhere to be seen
I know, I'll go back to the far less successful formula of putting those two car crash wankers back in the starting XI
Hate on Havertz all you like but he's infinitely better than Jesus up top. What a dreadful performance from him again - the concrete booted Brazilian who couldn't score if he was given a Platinum card for a brothel. Waste of space
Wenger might as well whip off the Arteta mask now. I might have got away with it if it wasn't for those pesky Ukranian and Brazilian kids !!
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most.
Come on Steve we’re all disappointed about the result but this is daft. We bear no semblance to Wengers Alzheimer’s period. Out of the last 10 matches we’ve won 8 drew 1 and only lost 1 whilst scoring 26 goals. Thats only bettered by 1 side in the country city and we have the best defence in the league. Our form is great just the margins are so thin now and slip ups will happen. Also we have took 4 points this season from city and Liverpool in the league. That isn’t a side bottling big occasions. Just went wrong yesterday.
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most.
Come on Steve we’re all disappointed about the result but this is daft. We bear no semblance to Wengers Alzheimer’s period. Out of the last 10 matches we’ve won 8 drew 1 and only lost 1 whilst scoring 26 goals. Thats only bettered by 1 side in the country city and we have the best defence in the league. Our form is great just the margins are so thin now and slip ups will happen. Also we have took 4 points this season from city and Liverpool in the league. That isn’t a side bottling big occasions. Just went wrong yesterday
It went wrong yesterday because our elite manager fucked about with the solid defence you just mentioned.
And this "we took points from Liverpool and man city" bollox!
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most.
Come on Steve we’re all disappointed about the result but this is daft. We bear no semblance to Wengers Alzheimer’s period. Out of the last 10 matches we’ve won 8 drew 1 and only lost 1 whilst scoring 26 goals. Thats only bettered by 1 side in the country city and we have the best defence in the league. Our form is great just the margins are so thin now and slip ups will happen. Also we have took 4 points this season from city and Liverpool in the league. That isn’t a side bottling big occasions. Just went wrong yesterday
It went wrong yesterday because our elite manager fucked about with the solid defence you just mentioned.
And this "we took points from Liverpool and man city" bollox!
Well we lost six against villa
But the point being he has got us competing in the big games again. He has don’t be silly and deny it we are far better.
He also has to rotate ahead of a big game against Munich. Used his squad. He’s damned if he rotates and damned if he doesn’t. Zinchenko wasn’t responsible for that first goal. Mix up between Raya, Gabriel and saliba. He had some bad moments but wasn’t responsible for that defeat let’s be honest. It was a 2nd half performance without any energy. Squad size and quality have hit home really.
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most.
Come on Steve we’re all disappointed about the result but this is daft. We bear no semblance to Wengers Alzheimer’s period. Out of the last 10 matches we’ve won 8 drew 1 and only lost 1 whilst scoring 26 goals. Thats only bettered by 1 side in the country city and we have the best defence in the league. Our form is great just the margins are so thin now and slip ups will happen. Also we have took 4 points this season from city and Liverpool in the league. That isn’t a side bottling big occasions. Just went wrong yesterday
It went wrong yesterday because our elite manager fucked about with the solid defence you just mentioned.
And this "we took points from Liverpool and man city" bollox!
Well we lost six against villa
But the point being he has got us competing in the big games again. He has don’t be silly and deny it we are far better.
He also has to rotate ahead of a big game against Munich. Used his squad. He’s damned if he rotates and damned if he doesn’t. Zinchenko wasn’t responsible for that first goal. Mix up between Raya, Gabriel and saliba. He had some bad moments but wasn’t responsible for that defeat let’s be honest. It was a 2nd half performance without any energy. Squad size and quality have hit home really.
And my point is that it isn't any good when you lose against the shite teams when it counts.
And wasn't their first goal scored by an unmarked player in zinchenko's position?
Mate you go in about people being pigheaded while you will never admit when arteta has fucked up.
I'm afraid today brings back all the same questions - has he got what it takes when it really matters
He's done better than I thought he was, but we're now becoming Arsene's XI reincarnated from any of the years 2008-17. Nice football when the pressure's off. Soft as shit, weak as piss when it matters most.
Come on Steve we’re all disappointed about the result but this is daft. We bear no semblance to Wengers Alzheimer’s period. Out of the last 10 matches we’ve won 8 drew 1 and only lost 1 whilst scoring 26 goals. Thats only bettered by 1 side in the country city and we have the best defence in the league. Our form is great just the margins are so thin now and slip ups will happen. Also we have took 4 points this season from city and Liverpool in the league. That isn’t a side bottling big occasions. Just went wrong yesterday
It went wrong yesterday because our elite manager fucked about with the solid defence you just mentioned.
And this "we took points from Liverpool and man city" bollox!
Well we lost six against villa
But the point being he has got us competing in the big games again. He has don’t be silly and deny it we are far better.
He also has to rotate ahead of a big game against Munich. Used his squad. He’s damned if he rotates and damned if he doesn’t. Zinchenko wasn’t responsible for that first goal. Mix up between Raya, Gabriel and saliba. He had some bad moments but wasn’t responsible for that defeat let’s be honest. It was a 2nd half performance without any energy. Squad size and quality have hit home really.
And my point is that it isn't any good when you lose against the shite teams when it counts.
And wasn't their first goal scored by an unmarked player in zinchenko's position?
Mate you go in about people being pigheaded while you will never admit when arteta has fucked up.
He didn’t mess up. He rotated ahead of a big midweek game. Not punishable by death. He did it last week everyone here freaked and we won the game anyway.
It’s was an energy less 2nd half performance. We have to rely on a pretty small group of players in truth. I think Rodders point above on city in the match thread pretty much absolutely nails it. You are dealing with a minuscule margin of error trying to fight a team in city that is now relentlessly dominating the premier league and probably Europe now too. Not sure you are going to see the Liverpool fans advocating of the sacking of Klopp as he’s on the same points.
On the first goal honestly it should have been dealt with before then. The ball shouldnt have been allowed to roll across our 6 yard box. Ridiculous
our jewels could be tempted elsewhere.
