Kai Havertz

[SteveO 35]

Another great display today. Fantastic movement throughout, especially for his goal. Won every header against Dunk. Linked the play up well and deservedly won man of the match. I'm sure there'll be a good few on here finding fault with it again

60 million down the drain is even more tongue in cheek than ever now. An absolute bargain!

On the match thread someone (.I can’t be arsed to look up who ) described his goal as a tap in - it was so much more than that, yes it was close range, but he had 3 Brighton defenders crowded around him and he still found the desire to get in between them to get the vital touch.

A goal and a great weighted pass for the assist for Trossard makes that a very productive game in my book, he contributes something different, that opposition seem to struggle with handling and it makes us harder to deal with

A tap in, lol. Can imagine where that might have come from! Shame Jesus can't manage a "tap in" if his life depended on it but probably escaped any form of criticism yet again

[Redarmy]

I own up, I was one of his Biggest Critics on here, but I am beginning to see what he brings to the Team/System and How he is a part of the tactics...Mind you what would I know compared to Arteta (and a few others Cough! Cough!)

Refreshing to hear. Most here have doubled down and are saying he’s useless still when he clearly isn’t. Fair play to you.

Someone said the other day that he’s less of a waste of money than Jesus. I’d partially agree but rephrase it in neither are a waste of money as they have their value within the squad but Havertz is far better signing as he is much more consistent. He brings many options because of his varied technical attributes. Can play in either of the 8 midfield roles or as a false 9 and do it very well.

Would he ever make the best of the world 11 ? I highly doubt it but if you need to contend with a 70 game season and need to chuck someone into the fold you can depend on then it’s a very shrewd signing for just 58 million. He’s like a cheat code for midfield and up front and I think Jurrien Timber may end up being similar as he can perform several roles in the back 4.

Contrast his reliability to Zinchenko, Tomiyasu or Emile Smith Rowe. All good players on their day but you honestly never know which version will turn up and whilst they move the ball well their actual impacts on the game outcome are little.

First part in red....what are the "8 midfield roles"? There used to be 2, the centre mids who battled in the middle of the park and were largely box to box. Some more defensively inclined, others creatively inclined, but both expected to tackle and win the ball. the second, if you called them midfielders, which I don't, were the wingers.

In more recent times, we have those that sit deep in front of the back four and those that get further forward. We then get into the realm of this over complication of what people call a number 10 or number 8. It's all bullshit. The 9 and 10 used to be strikers and I'd very much include Bergkamp as a striker. The idea of calling Odegaard a number 10 (as is now commonplace) is simply a modern take on things. He's a midfielder who plays in a more advanced position. In my experience, most people who get heavily involved in all sorts of weird formation descriptions eg. 4, 1, 2, 2, 1 or 5, 1, 3, 1 blah blah blah, haven't got a fucking clue what they're on about. They're like 12 year olds. Anyway, can you enlighten about the 8 midfielders please?

As for the second part in red....you only doubt it??!
The only way Havertz would ever make a world first 11 is if all bar 10 other footballers were paralysed overnight.

Think thats what you are dealing with...

As for havertz have to agree hes slightly more than i thought although not totally convinced
yes hes niggly gets a foot in and is physical, can win ariel battles and has an eye for a chance but hes anonymous for long periods then drifts loosing his marker and finding space....hes a clever player and i have never seen anyone quite like him previously at the Arsenal
With the media hes a useless *word censored* or greatest thing ever.....lets see how he progresses

[OneBardGooner]

I am beginning to think the Only Way he will convince the Arsenal Fans is if he scores the winning goal, in the game that wins us the title or CL...(*) I have been amongst his severest critics on here, but have to say he came across as a very likeable, humble sort of bloke in the post- Brighton game interview when he was awarded MOTM.... Not that that means anything


(*) Who knows? Stranger Things Have Happened.

[Stuart L (2)]

I am beginning to think the Only Way he will convince the Arsenal Fans is if he scores the winning goal, in the game that wins us the title or CL...(*) I have been amongst his severest critics on here, but have to say he came across as a very likeable, humble sort of bloke in the post- Brighton game interview when he was awarded MOTM.... Not that that means anything


(*) Who knows? Stranger Things Have Happened.

I’d happily settle for him getting winning goals v the scum and the Mancs and let Zinchenko score the winning goal v Everton to crown us champions

[nut flush gooner]

Amazing isn't it now Havertz has turned things around people just can't can't get themselves to admit that he is an essential part of the starting eleven for the rest of the season.

"Ohh it was a tap in", fucking hell I wonder if some people have actually played football to a decent standard that make these comments. Why can't people be big enough to admit we got it wrong. I am.

[OneBardGooner]

#justsaying.... or more like wondering really....




What happens if he Scores the Winner Tonight Will He Be 'Forgiven'? Or will it be a Temporary armistice till he misses another sitter?

[Arsenal Till I Die]

#justsaying.... or more like wondering really....




What happens if he Scores the Winner Tonight Will He Be 'Forgiven'? Or will it be a Temporary armistice till he misses another sitter?

The same as if Eboue scored a winner, or Denilson or Bendtner or Park, Nketiah or Chamakh et al; they’re judged on their overall contribution to the team throughout the season, or seasons, depending on how long they’re with us. It’s ridiculous to dislike a single player and never praise his contributions, as much as it is to idolise a player and never criticise his shortcoming; regarding Havertz, he’s exceeded my expectations for him by scoring more than I thought he would. He does make some intelligent off the ball runs which pull defenders towards him, he goes off the ball shothousery quite well (and he’s not afraid to get a yellow to stop a counter, which is great) and he does get into good goalscoring positions (and he’s scored, I believe, 10 goals this season*). Do I think he’s good enough to take us to the next level? No. Do I think he’s total dogshit? No, he has his uses but as we need a proper goalscorer he isn’t one.

Havertz wasn’t worth the money we paid for him but that isn’t his fault. Had he cost less than £60m and we signed a proper goalscoring striker then we’d all being saying he’s been a good addition to the team for his for the ball, and current goal, contributions. Economics, and overall contribution to the role he is supposed to fill (CF), dictate that he’s not what we need and therefore subject to criticism.

Suffice to say, if he scores the winner in the CL final or the goal that wins us the league then he’ll firmly (albeit it due to jubilation) justify his price tag, such as the fickle nature of football.

*Correct me if I’m wrong re his goals, thus far, for us.=

[Retro Gunner]

#justsaying.... or more like wondering really....




What happens if he Scores the Winner Tonight Will He Be 'Forgiven'? Or will it be a Temporary armistice till he misses another sitter?

The same as if Eboue scored a winner, or Denilson or Bendtner or Park, Nketiah or Chamakh et al; they’re judged on their overall contribution to the team throughout the season, or seasons, depending on how long they’re with us. It’s ridiculous to dislike a single player and never praise his contributions, as much as it is to idolise a player and never criticise his shortcoming; regarding Havertz, he’s exceeded my expectations for him by scoring more than I thought he would. He does make some intelligent off the ball runs which pull defenders towards him, he goes off the ball shothousery quite well (and he’s not afraid to get a yellow to stop a counter, which is great) and he does get into good goalscoring positions (and he’s scored, I believe, 10 goals this season*). Do I think he’s good enough to take us to the next level? No. Do I think he’s total dogshit? No, he has his uses but as we need a proper goalscorer he isn’t one.

Havertz wasn’t worth the money we paid for him but that isn’t his fault. Had he cost less than £60m and we signed a proper goalscoring striker then we’d all being saying he’s been a good addition to the team for his for the ball, and current goal, contributions. Economics, and overall contribution to the role he is supposed to fill (CF), dictate that he’s not what we need and therefore subject to criticism.

Suffice to say, if he scores the winner in the CL final or the goal that wins us the league then he’ll firmly (albeit it due to jubilation) justify his price tag, such as the fickle nature of football.

*Correct me if I’m wrong re his goals, thus far, for us.=

He's sub standard, end of. I'm not convinced that Toney or Watkins are right for us, but I'd take them all day long in front of Havertz and I'm sure almost everyone on here would agree. If we'd take those two ahead of him, then he's not good enough to be at our club....well, not if we're genuinely trying to compete at the top table. I guarantee that there isn't another top European side that would want him.

No doubt someone will now say that he isn't a striker, but that the chavs played him out of position up front and that he's an advanced midfielder. Well, playing advanced left midfield (Xhaka's role last season...one dud for another) didn't work out too well, so Arteta has pushed him further forward. He seems to be neither one thing or the other, which pretty much says it all. A false 9 maybe....which is where we ended up playing Gervinho. Sound familiar?

It's not his fault, just as it wasn't Xhaka's fault that Wenger and Arteta picked him. The fault lies with the manager.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

#justsaying.... or more like wondering really....




What happens if he Scores the Winner Tonight Will He Be 'Forgiven'? Or will it be a Temporary armistice till he misses another sitter?

The same as if Eboue scored a winner, or Denilson or Bendtner or Park, Nketiah or Chamakh et al; they’re judged on their overall contribution to the team throughout the season, or seasons, depending on how long they’re with us. It’s ridiculous to dislike a single player and never praise his contributions, as much as it is to idolise a player and never criticise his shortcoming; regarding Havertz, he’s exceeded my expectations for him by scoring more than I thought he would. He does make some intelligent off the ball runs which pull defenders towards him, he goes off the ball shothousery quite well (and he’s not afraid to get a yellow to stop a counter, which is great) and he does get into good goalscoring positions (and he’s scored, I believe, 10 goals this season*). Do I think he’s good enough to take us to the next level? No. Do I think he’s total dogshit? No, he has his uses but as we need a proper goalscorer he isn’t one.

Havertz wasn’t worth the money we paid for him but that isn’t his fault. Had he cost less than £60m and we signed a proper goalscoring striker then we’d all being saying he’s been a good addition to the team for his for the ball, and current goal, contributions. Economics, and overall contribution to the role he is supposed to fill (CF), dictate that he’s not what we need and therefore subject to criticism.

Suffice to say, if he scores the winner in the CL final or the goal that wins us the league then he’ll firmly (albeit it due to jubilation) justify his price tag, such as the fickle nature of football.

*Correct me if I’m wrong re his goals, thus far, for us.=

He's sub standard, end of. I'm not convinced that Toney or Watkins are right for us, but I'd take them all day long in front of Havertz and I'm sure almost everyone on here would agree. If we'd take those two ahead of him, then he's not good enough to be at our club....well, not if we're genuinely trying to compete at the top table. I guarantee that there isn't another top European side that would want him.

No doubt someone will now say that he isn't a striker, but that the chavs played him out of position up front and that he's an advanced midfielder. Well, playing advanced left midfield (Xhaka's role last season...one dud for another) didn't work out too well, so Arteta has pushed him further forward. He seems to be neither one thing or the other, which pretty much says it all. A false 9 maybe....which is where we ended up playing Gervinho. Sound familiar?

It's not his fault, just as it wasn't Xhaka's fault that Wenger and Arteta picked him. The fault lies with the manager.

100%.

Like every single one on here, and beyond who supports the Arsenal, I WANT Havertz to do well. I want him to for this team as Bergkamp or Henry was to the invincible or, at least, the 98 double winning team. Of course I do. Any player, regardless of who they came from, I want them to be the absolute very best for this club. Havertz won’t be. Not because he’s not trying; no ding to the lad, he’s just not good enough. I truly hope he guides us to the final of the CL and scores a hat trick against PSG/Dortmund in the final, goes without saying. But he’s not got the quality to sustain a title or European title charge, right now.

Again, not his fault. No ding to the lad. I’d even be happy to keep his as a bench player, he offers something different for his off the ball work. The price Arteta/Edu paid pulls in the scrutiny more than Harvert’s actual playing style.

As I said, if we got him for less than what we paid, let’s say £25m and we bought another, true goalscoring, CF then we’d be fine with Havertz as an off the bench option. He isn’t a bad player and he’s very good for a squad but he’s not what we need to lead out line - it’s that simple.

[SteveO 35]

A part time centre forward who is still head and shoulders above Jesus and Nketiah - anyone spot the problem in the squad?

[Redarmy]

Is he really a centre forward?.....

He seems to work hard chasing but has no real physical precence, hes looking for a chance and capable of putting through a decent pass...but he just is not right leading the line

He cannot hold the ball up, is not a finisher although has got a few tap ins and occasional headers....could you imagine a proper striker up front an Ian Wright for example....

whilst hes chasing around hes pretty ineffective.....game is passing him by....answer is we must sign a striker

[DB10GOONER]

Two great goals tonight.

[OneBardGooner]

Two great goals tonight.

He's still a Lanky Streak Of Piss.

[SteveO 35]

He has to play every game between now and the end of the season at CF. OK, his decision making isn't always amazing but his movement is....and he creates so much more for the team than Jesus or Eddie. No other option for me - he has to play the last 4 games up top

[the playing mantis]

He has to play every game between now and the end of the season at CF. OK, his decision making isn't always amazing but his movement is....and he creates so much more for the team than Jesus or Eddie. No other option for me - he has to play the last 4 games up top

Fully agree, we are better with him upfront than anyone else and he causes problems. I still think we can do far better but he's a good option, but I still fear he will miss a sitter that costs us big time. He fcked up numerous times in first half but made up for it. Just hope he does it at the toilet.