Kai Havertz

[SteveO 35]

I like him and I think he had a thankless task up front on Sunday. What he did do is win almost every header and Giroud aside we haven't had a player who has done that for ages. Auba was fucking useless at it, so was Lacazette and Jesus hasn't got the physical attributes albeit he doesn't shirk the physical side. He didn't have a bad game at all - you'll see better CFs go to the Etihad and do less. He brings others into the game really well and I think its his demeanour that often gives people the wrong impression i.e. that he doesn't give a fuck. On the contrary, I like his calmness but also the fact that he's got that nasty streak inside him that the likes of DB10 had (I'm not comparing his ability by the way!). He hasn't been a bad signing at all - too soon to say inspired, but certainly doesn't deserve the stick he has had. The Scummers paid £60m for a bloke who went a year without a PL goal and now everyone is raving about him!

[OneBardGooner]

I own up, I was one of his Biggest Critics on here, but I am beginning to see what he brings to the Team/System and How he is a part of the tactics...Mind you what would I know compared to Arteta (and a few others Cough! Cough!)

[Viv Andersons Tache]

I own up, I was one of his Biggest Critics on here, but I am beginning to see what he brings to the Team/System and How he is a part of the tactics...Mind you what would I know compared to Arteta (and a few others Cough! Cough!)

Refreshing to hear. Most here have doubled down and are saying he’s useless still when he clearly isn’t. Fair play to you.

Someone said the other day that he’s less of a waste of money than Jesus. I’d partially agree but rephrase it in neither are a waste of money as they have their value within the squad but Havertz is far better signing as he is much more consistent. He brings many options because of his varied technical attributes. Can play in either of the 8 midfield roles or as a false 9 and do it very well.

Would he ever make the best of the world 11 ? I highly doubt it but if you need to contend with a 70 game season and need to chuck someone into the fold you can depend on then it’s a very shrewd signing for just 58 million. He’s like a cheat code for midfield and up front and I think Jurrien Timber may end up being similar as he can perform several roles in the back 4.

Contrast his reliability to Zinchenko, Tomiyasu or Emile Smith Rowe. All good players on their day but you honestly never know which version will turn up and whilst they move the ball well their actual impacts on the game outcome are little.

[Retro Gunner]

I own up, I was one of his Biggest Critics on here, but I am beginning to see what he brings to the Team/System and How he is a part of the tactics...Mind you what would I know compared to Arteta (and a few others Cough! Cough!)

Refreshing to hear. Most here have doubled down and are saying he’s useless still when he clearly isn’t. Fair play to you.

Someone said the other day that he’s less of a waste of money than Jesus. I’d partially agree but rephrase it in neither are a waste of money as they have their value within the squad but Havertz is far better signing as he is much more consistent. He brings many options because of his varied technical attributes. Can play in either of the 8 midfield roles or as a false 9 and do it very well.

Would he ever make the best of the world 11 ? I highly doubt it but if you need to contend with a 70 game season and need to chuck someone into the fold you can depend on then it’s a very shrewd signing for just 58 million. He’s like a cheat code for midfield and up front and I think Jurrien Timber may end up being similar as he can perform several roles in the back 4.

Contrast his reliability to Zinchenko, Tomiyasu or Emile Smith Rowe. All good players on their day but you honestly never know which version will turn up and whilst they move the ball well their actual impacts on the game outcome are little.

First part in red....what are the "8 midfield roles"? There used to be 2, the centre mids who battled in the middle of the park and were largely box to box. Some more defensively inclined, others creatively inclined, but both expected to tackle and win the ball. the second, if you called them midfielders, which I don't, were the wingers.

In more recent times, we have those that sit deep in front of the back four and those that get further forward. We then get into the realm of this over complication of what people call a number 10 or number 8. It's all bullshit. The 9 and 10 used to be strikers and I'd very much include Bergkamp as a striker. The idea of calling Odegaard a number 10 (as is now commonplace) is simply a modern take on things. He's a midfielder who plays in a more advanced position. In my experience, most people who get heavily involved in all sorts of weird formation descriptions eg. 4, 1, 2, 2, 1 or 5, 1, 3, 1 blah blah blah, haven't got a fucking clue what they're on about. They're like 12 year olds. Anyway, can you enlighten about the 8 midfielders please?

As for the second part in red....you only doubt it??!
The only way Havertz would ever make a world first 11 is if all bar 10 other footballers were paralysed overnight.

[Reno Gooner]

Havertz has done nothing to change my opinion of him, he's crap. He's another Xhaka, so little is expected of him, the bar is almost set on the ground at this stage.....so when he is ok'ish, no absolute howlers, he's perceived as having had a "great" game. The niggle that he has, the so called bad side of him, is his own frustration at constantly being off the pace. He's a guy that will convert one in 10, then get rave reviews when he does. Like Xhaka, we are not where we are because of him, we are where we are in spite of him.
And to compare him to ESR is absurd. Havertz is the first name on the team sheet, ESR starts one game in 20, if he's lucky. He's not match fit, how can anyone expect him to be.

[wibble]

Can’t see the posts now about his suspension but he hasn’t reached the threshold for that. He’s been booked 8 times in the league and needs 10 before a 2 game suspension would be enforced. It gets wiped after 32 games so he’d need booked in both of the next two games.
A good few on here will need to put the party poppers away for now!

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Havertz has done nothing to change my opinion of him, he's crap. He's another Xhaka, so little is expected of him, the bar is almost set on the ground at this stage.....so when he is ok'ish, no absolute howlers, he's perceived as having had a "great" game. The niggle that he has, the so called bad side of him, is his own frustration at constantly being off the pace. He's a guy that will convert one in 10, then get rave reviews when he does. Like Xhaka, we are not where we are because of him, we are where we are in spite of him.
And to compare him to ESR is absurd. Havertz is the first name on the team sheet, ESR starts one game in 20, if he's lucky. He's not match fit, how can anyone expect him to be.

Absolute silliness. Scored winners home and away v Brentford, scored a penalty in our winning shoutout v Porto and has had several good games. Assist on Wednesday with good interplay with Odegaard

Our best football this year with him up front since Christmas. He’s undeniably made the team better when he is in it. Some people just can’t give him credit for some reason.

Time to put the blinkers back on and get that totem spinning.

[SteveO 35]

The boy is a massive asset to the team - 8 goals and 4 assists in 29 games is not bad at all for his first season, and look how he scores them (3 with the right, 3 with the left, 2 with the head). Compared to one trick Maddison who everyone seems to knock themselves bandy with, he's got so much more in him. I'm not sure about 8 midfield positions, but he's comfortable playing with his back to goal and facing goal and there are few other creatives who can do that. De Bruyne who is probably the ultimate attacking midfielder in the Prem wouldn't be scoring goals like that with his head or anywhere near as effective with his back to goal.

I actually prefer him up front to Jesus who is supposed to be our main striker. 4 goals and 3 assists in 20 from him, 8 goals and 4 assists from Havertz in 29, and yet Jesus seems to escape criticism. His finishing is wild, he runs with his head down constantly and isn't anywhere near as versatile. I know which one I'd get rid of first, and he isn't German!

[Viv Andersons Tache]

The boy is a massive asset to the team - 8 goals and 4 assists in 29 games is not bad at all for his first season, and look how he scores them (3 with the right, 3 with the left, 2 with the head). Compared to one trick Maddison who everyone seems to knock themselves bandy with, he's got so much more in him. I'm not sure about 8 midfield positions, but he's comfortable playing with his back to goal and facing goal and there are few other creatives who can do that. De Bruyne who is probably the ultimate attacking midfielder in the Prem wouldn't be scoring goals like that with his head or anywhere near as effective with his back to goal.

I actually prefer him up front to Jesus who is supposed to be our main striker. 4 goals and 3 assists in 20 from him, 8 goals and 4 assists from Havertz in 29, and yet Jesus seems to escape criticism. His finishing is wild, he runs with his head down constantly and isn't anywhere near as versatile. I know which one I'd get rid of first, and he isn't German!

Good post Steve.

Was chatting to a mate yesterday about his assist v Luton when he teed up Odegaard. My mate said literally the point you made here. Rather than squaring the ball like Havertz did Jesus would have ignored him and tried to take on the 2 defenders and lost it. We just look better when Havertz is up front there is more guile to our play.

[Stuart L (2)]

The boy is a massive asset to the team - 8 goals and 4 assists in 29 games is not bad at all for his first season, and look how he scores them (3 with the right, 3 with the left, 2 with the head). Compared to one trick Maddison who everyone seems to knock themselves bandy with, he's got so much more in him. I'm not sure about 8 midfield positions, but he's comfortable playing with his back to goal and facing goal and there are few other creatives who can do that. De Bruyne who is probably the ultimate attacking midfielder in the Prem wouldn't be scoring goals like that with his head or anywhere near as effective with his back to goal.

I actually prefer him up front to Jesus who is supposed to be our main striker. 4 goals and 3 assists in 20 from him, 8 goals and 4 assists from Havertz in 29, and yet Jesus seems to escape criticism. His finishing is wild, he runs with his head down constantly and isn't anywhere near as versatile. I know which one I'd get rid of first, and he isn't German!

I think he is a part of the jigsaw puzzle that makes us function as a team cohesively- but as an individual he just has not got the ability to dribble past 3 players and score a spectacular goal, which makes people say Wow

His attributes are not particularly eye catching, and therefore he is never going to stand out, but what he does do is pull defenders out of shape, create space for our fluid front line to exploit.

Like him or not he is going to be part if this team going forward for the next few seasons, hopefully bringing us success.

I’m not his biggest fan by any means but if he takes the physical side of the game to the opposition and allows more freedom to Martinelli / Saka to exploit and it works so be it.

[SteveO 35]

The boy is a massive asset to the team - 8 goals and 4 assists in 29 games is not bad at all for his first season, and look how he scores them (3 with the right, 3 with the left, 2 with the head). Compared to one trick Maddison who everyone seems to knock themselves bandy with, he's got so much more in him. I'm not sure about 8 midfield positions, but he's comfortable playing with his back to goal and facing goal and there are few other creatives who can do that. De Bruyne who is probably the ultimate attacking midfielder in the Prem wouldn't be scoring goals like that with his head or anywhere near as effective with his back to goal.

I actually prefer him up front to Jesus who is supposed to be our main striker. 4 goals and 3 assists in 20 from him, 8 goals and 4 assists from Havertz in 29, and yet Jesus seems to escape criticism. His finishing is wild, he runs with his head down constantly and isn't anywhere near as versatile. I know which one I'd get rid of first, and he isn't German!

I think he is a part of the jigsaw puzzle that makes us function as a team cohesively- but as an individual he just has not got the ability to dribble past 3 players and score a spectacular goal, which makes people say Wow

His attributes are not particularly eye catching, and therefore he is never going to stand out, but what he does do is pull defenders out of shape, create space for our fluid front line to exploit.

Like him or not he is going to be part if this team going forward for the next few seasons, hopefully bringing us success.

I’m not his biggest fan by any means but if he takes the physical side of the game to the opposition and allows more freedom to Martinelli / Saka to exploit and it works so be it.

I think that's fair comment and you're right I've never seen him score one of those worldie type goals. But if you listened to Keown and Lockyer speak the other night, they were saying that as a CB its almost easier to have that big lump up front to mark, man to man. Someone who keeps drifting here and there and dropping deep is harder to pick. We were struggling for goals earlier in the season and many on here thought our attacking play had regressed. I'm not saying its the only reason, but certainly since he had a run in that forward position, we've been much more free scoring. Saka, Odegaard and Martinelli have all picked up again - back to last season's heights. I don't think Jesus gives us anywhere near that up front - he runs down blind alleys, snatches at chances and doesn't bring others into the game. Havertz is one of those who definitely makes others look better, and that isn't to be sniffed at

[SteveO 35]

Another great display today. Fantastic movement throughout, especially for his goal. Won every header against Dunk. Linked the play up well and deservedly won man of the match. I'm sure there'll be a good few on here finding fault with it again

60 million down the drain is even more tongue in cheek than ever now. An absolute bargain!

[TeeCee]

He's a guy that will convert one in 10

Sorry Reno but I think that's 5 goals and 3 assists in his last 7 games!
He's gangly and looks awkward sometimes but the guy puts in the effort, makes great runs, is a big, niggly pest and has output. I think he works well in this setup and he gives a lot more in his advanced position than Eddie or Jesus, even though really he's a midfielder.
He's an important player for us now!

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Havertz now has nine goal involvements - including five goals - in the past seven league games.

An absolute bargain at 58 million quid if you look at other transfers.

[Stuart L (2)]

Another great display today. Fantastic movement throughout, especially for his goal. Won every header against Dunk. Linked the play up well and deservedly won man of the match. I'm sure there'll be a good few on here finding fault with it again

60 million down the drain is even more tongue in cheek than ever now. An absolute bargain!

On the match thread someone (.I can’t be arsed to look up who ) described his goal as a tap in - it was so much more than that, yes it was close range, but he had 3 Brighton defenders crowded around him and he still found the desire to get in between them to get the vital touch.

A goal and a great weighted pass for the assist for Trossard makes that a very productive game in my book, he contributes something different, that opposition seem to struggle with handling and it makes us harder to deal with