Cheaty C.UNTS vs THE Arsenal A Sun March 31st 16:30. Prem.

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Odegaard played well.

Led our press and provided high energy. Was unlucky to not play in Havertz with a touch too heavy.

Just because he doesn’t lamp in a 25 yarder it doesn’t mean he had a bad game. You are talking about a very tight game with nothing in it. The creative aspect of his game didn’t work yesterday but it didn’t work for any player on the pitch practically.

Just seems a trope trotted out that he doesn’t perform in big games if we don’t get the result we want.

[augie]

We gained a point but lost two. Our best two players were our CB's. Going forward we were toothless at no time did Arteta go for it. The decision to bring in Jesus instead of Trossard just didnt work. Saka was anonymous as was Havertz. The commentator summed it up when the stat came up that City's last home defeat was when Ivan Toney scored two goals.

I always tell my victims supporting buddies that fat rafa's tactics cost them a premier league title back in the day - the premier league is different than spanish and italian football where it is more tactical, and playing for draws away from home against your rivals gets you exactly what rafa got ..... nothing. When the victims play citeeh away then dont sit back and play for a draw - they show no fear and go for it and city struggle to deal with it. They dont go gung ho and I'm not suggesting we should have either, but that city team is nowhere near as good as it was and I really dont think we should be afraid of them - soundbites about going for it in the media are all well and good, and if we back up our words and actually did go for it and lose then so be it, but imo we talk about being winners but dont really have winners mentality when it comes down to it, and yesterday we have helped the victims in their quest to win the league

[Retro Gunner]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

[OneBardGooner]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

[Redarmy]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

agree Retro...it was a very good point...important not to loose....even could have nicked it ...CB pairing looking very decent now...was a time when understandably Gabrielle used to panic but not anymore with the imperious Saliba alongside

[augie]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

If the title race was a two horse race between us and citeeh then maybe I would have a similar viewpoint on it, but as I said yesterday pre-game, the one thing I didnt want was to help the victims win the league in klopps last season - I would rather citeeh win 10 leagues than the victims win one. My stance is also that if you want something then you have to go and grab it - if we want to win the league then we need to go and take it from citeeh imo, and this "moral victory" type of feeling will seem very hollow if we end up 2nd or 3rd place at the end of the season. In my opinion there is a contradiction in the mindset of the fans and the club itself - on one hand they talk up the cone boy and the team as if we are once again a big team, but then when we face citeeh we play like we are afraid of them and dont believe that we are good enough, and it has to be one or the other to me. I hate to give stupid teeth any credit, but I will say that they never show any fear when they play citeeh home or away - we play citeeh with the same mentality as a villa or a fulham team would have against them

[BFG4]

I don't get the narrative that yesterday only helped Liverpool. If L'pool go and win 9 in a row then fair enough they'll be champions but I don't see them doing it. City on the other hand are more than capable of winning all their remaining matches and have previous of going on a big run. The other big picture from yesterday is that if we had gone at City and been destroyed, it not only would fuck up our title chances but should we get through Bayern we'd be going to Manchester in a CL semi final and be shitting ourselves.

[Nick Nack]

Haven't seen a single minute of the game as I was stuck on a delayed flight to Spain.

From what I can gather, if we had anything close to a decent striker we could have won.

Good to see that our CDs snuffed out the weirdo ogre.

If at the start of the season you would have offered a 0-0 at Shitty in our current position at this stage of the season I would happily take that.

But judging from the comments here do I sense we missed an opportunity to put one over on them up there

Luton next, one of the teams that I hate from the 80s, then we put the Sperz of Bavaria to the sword

[Retro Gunner]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

If the title race was a two horse race between us and citeeh then maybe I would have a similar viewpoint on it, but as I said yesterday pre-game, the one thing I didnt want was to help the victims win the league in klopps last season - I would rather citeeh win 10 leagues than the victims win one. My stance is also that if you want something then you have to go and grab it - if we want to win the league then we need to go and take it from citeeh imo, and this "moral victory" type of feeling will seem very hollow if we end up 2nd or 3rd place at the end of the season. In my opinion there is a contradiction in the mindset of the fans and the club itself - on one hand they talk up the cone boy and the team as if we are once again a big team, but then when we face citeeh we play like we are afraid of them and dont believe that we are good enough, and it has to be one or the other to me. I hate to give stupid teeth any credit, but I will say that they never show any fear when they play citeeh home or away - we play citeeh with the same mentality as a villa or a fulham team would have against them

That’s harsh augie. It’s rare that I disagree with you, but you can’t be involved in three horse race in the league and approach the game worrying about Liverpool winning the league. You can only do what’s best for our club. What’s the alternative, throw the game to help ensure City win it? If we’re going to win the league you can concentrate only on what you’re doing and if others top it, then so be it.

As for going there to “have a go” at them, we’ve tried that for years and end up getting done by 3,4, or 5. I’ve said on here before that our style of play is fundamentally the same as City’s and there’s no shame in admitting that they’re ahead of us as a unit. Liverpool play a much more direct style, getting back to front very quickly and City are susceptible to getting done by that tactic, as Pep was at Barca. I’ve advocated for mixing it up and playing a more direct ball over the top and although we didn’t do a lot of that of that yesterday, at least Raya was prepared to kick long so we could fight for the second ball, rather than constantly playing out from the back and getting done by City’s press. Mixing it up not only makes us less predictable but also breaks up City’s rhythm.

Going to City, keeping it tight and not losing the game doesn’t mean you’re not a big club augie. They’re the best team in Europe, or at least in the top two, so to be defensively organised and create chances to win it when you can (with a striker worthy of the name, we could have had a couple of goals yesterday) is a huge step forward in my opinion. Not only is it over 50 odd games since City failed to score at home, but other than Ake’s header, I can’t think of save that Raya had to make. We restricted them to fuck all chances really. I’d happily take 4 points from that lot every season.

The other key thing to remember is that walking away without getting beat (or mauled as we usually do) is great for the confidence of the team. They’re disappointed not to have won it which is a real positive. Getting done by 3 or 4 would probably have killed the season again.

[herbert]

It was so important not to lose that game
City now relying on us & Liverpool to both drop points

The way the fixtures are dated we have a couple of chances to take the top spot back so the same commitment needed v Luton & Brighton this week to keep the pressure on Liverpool and hope that UTD turn up at home on Sunday and get at least a draw,

[wibble]

Good defensive performance. Arteta was pragmatic and ensured we didn’t lose. Right thing to do after years of wengers ‘tactics’ of playing the same way regardless of the opposition and ending up getting thrashed.

[augie]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

If the title race was a two horse race between us and citeeh then maybe I would have a similar viewpoint on it, but as I said yesterday pre-game, the one thing I didnt want was to help the victims win the league in klopps last season - I would rather citeeh win 10 leagues than the victims win one. My stance is also that if you want something then you have to go and grab it - if we want to win the league then we need to go and take it from citeeh imo, and this "moral victory" type of feeling will seem very hollow if we end up 2nd or 3rd place at the end of the season. In my opinion there is a contradiction in the mindset of the fans and the club itself - on one hand they talk up the cone boy and the team as if we are once again a big team, but then when we face citeeh we play like we are afraid of them and dont believe that we are good enough, and it has to be one or the other to me. I hate to give stupid teeth any credit, but I will say that they never show any fear when they play citeeh home or away - we play citeeh with the same mentality as a villa or a fulham team would have against them

That’s harsh augie. It’s rare that I disagree with you, but you can’t be involved in three horse race in the league and approach the game worrying about Liverpool winning the league. You can only do what’s best for our club. What’s the alternative, throw the game to help ensure City win it? If we’re going to win the league you can concentrate only on what you’re doing and if others top it, then so be it.

As for going there to “have a go” at them, we’ve tried that for years and end up getting done by 3,4, or 5. I’ve said on here before that our style of play is fundamentally the same as City’s and there’s no shame in admitting that they’re ahead of us as a unit. Liverpool play a much more direct style, getting back to front very quickly and City are susceptible to getting done by that tactic, as Pep was at Barca. I’ve advocated for mixing it up and playing a more direct ball over the top and although we didn’t do a lot of that of that yesterday, at least Raya was prepared to kick long so we could fight for the second ball, rather than constantly playing out from the back and getting done by City’s press. Mixing it up not only makes us less predictable but also breaks up City’s rhythm.

Going to City, keeping it tight and not losing the game doesn’t mean you’re not a big club augie. They’re the best team in Europe, or at least in the top two, so to be defensively organised and create chances to win it when you can (with a striker worthy of the name, we could have had a couple of goals yesterday) is a huge step forward in my opinion. Not only is it over 50 odd games since City failed to score at home, but other than Ake’s header, I can’t think of save that Raya had to make. We restricted them to fuck all chances really. I’d happily take 4 points from that lot every season.

The other key thing to remember is that walking away without getting beat (or mauled as we usually do) is great for the confidence of the team. They’re disappointed not to have won it which is a real positive. Getting done by 3 or 4 would probably have killed the season again.

A few quick responses -

1. raya's kicking yesterday was fcuking awful - at one stage he had ball at his feet dragging in backwards when a citeeh player pressed him and he had to try to get distance on a kick when he was going backwards with the ball (it was woeful)

2. The point you make about doing what is best for our own club I get, but what I meant by what I said is that when there are 3 teams in the running for the league, then invariably you cannot be playing for draws cos we are now 2pts behind the victims and we have a tougher run in than them. People are taking yesterdays result in isolation but imo you cant do that when there are 3 teams battling for the league - the only way the other teams results become irrelevent is if we are winning our games, and yesterday we didnt set out to do that

3. I have never advocated going gung ho yesterday - what I would like to have seen is us being defensively disciplined (as we were) but willing to go at them too. This isnt the citeeh team of a few years ago - they dont have leaders with real presence like fernandino, kompany, zabaleta, david silva, aguero etc, and imo they are nowhere near as solid defensively this season as they have been in the past.

[Retro Gunner]

Yep agreed, Raya’s kicking was poor, but I was talking about the tactic of being prepared to go long, rather than the quality of his kicking. As an aside and for what it’s worth, I didn’t rate Ramsdale, but the jury very much out on Raya in my opinion.

Bottom line augie, surely you’d agree that a point away to City is a good point. Compared to the pastings we normally get up there, we looked compact and solid and with a decent striker could have won the game. That’s a big step in the right direction.

We’re lacking up front and I remain convinced (as do you and others on here) that the failure to sign a quality striker will ultimately cost us. In my opinion , that was our weakness yesterday, rather than the tactical set up. City are indeed vulnerable if you get at them and with the right striker we could have, but I don’t agree that they’re not the side they were a few years ago….they haven’t been in great form this season, but they won the treble with this team last season.

I normally agree with your posts and I see your point here, but just think you’re being a bit harsh.

[gooner265]

That was like an old-school dug out draw GG would have been proud of.

[Viv Andersons Tache]

I'm not known for being the most positive of posters on here , but I was proud of the team yesterday. I've just read through this and the game has been well summed up. We normally go to their place, try to go toe to toe in a footballing sense and get well turned over. Yesterday we nullified their threat and not many teams manage that. Someone on here called it a "backs to the wall" display, but it wasn't really, because in the main we coped pretty comfortably and could well have nicked the win.

The two centre halves were immense and the whole team clearly kept to the game plan. I'd take a draw at their place every time and it's a long time since I've seen an Arsenal side so organised defensively. No shame in that and being defensively porous is what we've all been beefing about for years. I have to give Arteta credit for that.

What yesterday also showed was the glaring lack of a quality striker, the type that can win you a game by converting a half chance or getting a goal out of nothing. We have strikers at the opposite end of that spectrum. Jesus was never going to be the answer, as many of us said when we bought him and Havertz is clearly not at this level. The one serious worry from yesterday was that Arteta might well go back to rotating Martinelli in and out of the starting line up, as he tries to crowbar his favourites Jesus and Havertz into the side. In my book Martinelli and Trossard are always in front of Jesus and Havertz. For me, Martinelli would always be first on the team sheet along with the two centre backs and Rice.

As for Partey....more evidence that we should have sold him last summer.

Still, good result imo.

If the title race was a two horse race between us and citeeh then maybe I would have a similar viewpoint on it, but as I said yesterday pre-game, the one thing I didnt want was to help the victims win the league in klopps last season - I would rather citeeh win 10 leagues than the victims win one. My stance is also that if you want something then you have to go and grab it - if we want to win the league then we need to go and take it from citeeh imo, and this "moral victory" type of feeling will seem very hollow if we end up 2nd or 3rd place at the end of the season. In my opinion there is a contradiction in the mindset of the fans and the club itself - on one hand they talk up the cone boy and the team as if we are once again a big team, but then when we face citeeh we play like we are afraid of them and dont believe that we are good enough, and it has to be one or the other to me. I hate to give stupid teeth any credit, but I will say that they never show any fear when they play citeeh home or away - we play citeeh with the same mentality as a villa or a fulham team would have against them

That’s harsh augie. It’s rare that I disagree with you, but you can’t be involved in three horse race in the league and approach the game worrying about Liverpool winning the league. You can only do what’s best for our club. What’s the alternative, throw the game to help ensure City win it? If we’re going to win the league you can concentrate only on what you’re doing and if others top it, then so be it.

As for going there to “have a go” at them, we’ve tried that for years and end up getting done by 3,4, or 5. I’ve said on here before that our style of play is fundamentally the same as City’s and there’s no shame in admitting that they’re ahead of us as a unit. Liverpool play a much more direct style, getting back to front very quickly and City are susceptible to getting done by that tactic, as Pep was at Barca. I’ve advocated for mixing it up and playing a more direct ball over the top and although we didn’t do a lot of that of that yesterday, at least Raya was prepared to kick long so we could fight for the second ball, rather than constantly playing out from the back and getting done by City’s press. Mixing it up not only makes us less predictable but also breaks up City’s rhythm.

Going to City, keeping it tight and not losing the game doesn’t mean you’re not a big club augie. They’re the best team in Europe, or at least in the top two, so to be defensively organised and create chances to win it when you can (with a striker worthy of the name, we could have had a couple of goals yesterday) is a huge step forward in my opinion. Not only is it over 50 odd games since City failed to score at home, but other than Ake’s header, I can’t think of save that Raya had to make. We restricted them to fuck all chances really. I’d happily take 4 points from that lot every season.

The other key thing to remember is that walking away without getting beat (or mauled as we usually do) is great for the confidence of the team. They’re disappointed not to have won it which is a real positive. Getting done by 3 or 4 would probably have killed the season again.

2. The point you make about doing what is best for our own club I get, but what I meant by what I said is that when there are 3 teams in the running for the league, then invariably you cannot be playing for draws cos we are now 2pts behind the victims and we have a tougher run in than them.

We didn’t in any way play for a draw. We just didn’t. We set up solid and didn’t over commit and tackled like lions.

We had better chances than them and if Jesus had the intelligence to attack the 6 yard box quicker we would have snatched the game. We had a game plan and it almost worked. It was a good performance.