gallas new captain

[RaM]

Yes I understand the games you mean. And in the games where you have suggested Gilberto will be more useful a 4-5-1 approach was taken on the road last season.

[DB10GOONER]

Quite right, All Arsenal.

Am I the only one who won't be too devastated if Gilberto leaves? Yeah, he scored a few penalties last year, but I really think this could be the season for Diaby; and seeing as no one in their right mind would drop Fabregas, that means that Gilberto would have to make way. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Bert, but I just don't think him being sold would be the "disaster of the summer" as IW8Goalmachine put it.

Have to agree Tony. I'd rather he stay for squad strength and the experience he could use to help the kids but it wouldn't be a "disaster" if he went. Not great, but no disaster.

I always liked Gilberto the man . Honest, decent, hard working and good at calming those around him. As a captain that was his only real strength though - the ability to steady those around him and to have that confident, calming influence.

The two things I really don't rate about Gilberto are his passing and tackling. We have to be honest, for a Brazilian his passing is atrocious . And he only puts the tackles in occasionally. Unfortunately (to my mind) they are two of the main requirements for the "complete" modern midfielder. Just to be even a "good" midfielder you have to have at least one of those skills down tight.

There are exceptions, true. Cesc will never be a tackler but his game is so much more than that. He has the guile, the skill, the vision, the class and the genius. But he needs a tackler, a ball winner, in there beside him. Gilberto, while good at man marking and tracking players (skills in their own right) just doesn't offer that.

I personally would have probably gone for Kolo as captain because he leads by example. How many times have we seen him yell in frustration at the midfield then win the ball and venture forward? His attitude is "If you guys won't do it - I f*cking will!" That's real leadership.

On the Gallas front I was a bit horrified at first. He was pretty sh*t last year to be honest. But upon mature reflection, I think injuries didn't help him there. The fact that he is, let's say, "opinionated" can actually be a positive thing if chanelled rightly. Whining is whining and worse than useless, but opinionated people do get their voices heard and their message across. A captain has to be able to never worry about stepping on people's toes. They have to be opinionated. They have to be a bit arrogant. They have to have total self belief. They have to never worry about what people think about them. Vieira had it, Keane ( ) had it, TA6 had it and Gallas certainly has all that!!

But it remains to be seen if he's just a whiner, a screamer and a twat or if he can really motivate his team mates. For me, the jury is still out.

One thing that did impress me was when RVP came back on after his injury scare last week. Gallas gave him a hearty clap on the back and yelled, "Well done big man!" It may not seem like much but anyone that has played the game at any level knows that it's little things like that that can instil loyalty towards a captain and the motivation to do well for that captain.

THBW14 (while being one of our greatest players ever) was deffo our worst captain ever . He never did stuff like that; he was too busy posing and worrying about his own game and his silly little dancing celebrations with Yabba!! I also got the impression that THBW14 picked favourites from the players; some players he'd celebrate with and others he would barely clap on the back. Pure sh*te mentality as a Captain.

Only time will tell on Gallas, but I have a strange gut feeling that Arsene might just have pulled off a master stroke that we may only really appreciate next May...

Maybe.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Some good points there DB10 and do you know why.....they reflect my own!

Firstly lets clear up the Gilberto thing. What us this nonsense of Gilberto for one type of game and Abou for another? Certain people are saying how great Bert is etc but at the same time conceeding he is not the best player to play in certain games! Very odd! If he is the best holding midfielder at the club he plays every game! Simple! Did you ever consider that Paddy should only play the Man Utd games but not the Bolton games? No didn't think so because he was the complete midfield colussos just as Abou is shaping up to be! To hold Diaby back would be criminal! Another season under Bert's tutorage is perfect but I fully expect after that our warrior in the 2 shirt (which is wrong agreed) will be top dog! I for one cannot wait for the day to see Abou running all over the likes of Hargreaves, Carrick and Lampard just the way Paddy used too!

Now on to Willy Gallas and the captaincy issue! To me he is the natural choice! Strong determined with the balls to speak his mind but also the humility to recognise the fans and acknowledge them at all times! Full of experience but still with a point to prove. Sounds pretty fucking good to me! Plus I hope Gallas sees it as the perfect oppurtunity to stick 2 fingers up to Chavski and for him to know what its like to lead a proper football club full of tradition and history!

Lets get behind Gallas this season fellas! To me he is going to be just as important as RVP in our quest this season and as Ive said before if I had to bet now I would put money on Gallas as this seasons player of the year!

Kolo yes full of spirit! Kolo as captain permanently? Dont think so right now! Kolo strikes me as so emotionally wrapped up and absorbed in the whole game sometimes that he goes into a tunnel vision kind of trance! He is a fantastic example of energy commitment and drive but a leader of men? Nope dont thnk so!

Cmon we all agree this is a new era, a new generation and start without The Invincibles, without Henry and without Highbury! Lets get behind the new leader! My guess is we are going to need a lot of steering and guidance this season!

[Magic Hat]

Tactical flexibility? Some teams change systems depending on who they are playing to exploit the opposition weakness, example you don't play long balls against a defence full of 6 footers but try to use pace. Notice how we use 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 for different games?

Veria and Diaby are all action midfielders, they do not just sit in front of the defence and sweep up like Gilberto does. A holding player isn't going to dominate the game (unless your midfield is rubbish like England) but offer protection for the defence. Gilberto has never taken control of a game or outmuscled people, it isn't what he is there for.

In games where we need muscle, a ball winner or going to dominate anyway so the defence doesn't need that much cover, Diaby can cover the role, he is all action, is better going forward and will relish a physical battle. In games like vs Man U were we need to block off that area in front of defence, Gilberto is the best we have. Denilson I think is his most like to like replacement but right now, his tackling is rather bad, he needs another year or two

[IW8Goalmachine]

I just don't think him being sold would be the "disaster of the summer" as IW8Goalmachine put it.

what i mean by that is we have already lost two experienced players this summer in TiTi and Freddie. the midfield has good times ahead but i feel that it still needs the guildence of Giberto before its the finished article and our squad is already very thin and inexperienced as you well know. Diaby will defo be more involved this year and i'm very excited about that as he is top quality

[IW8Goalmachine]

Bert will always have a soft spot with me for being the most unskillfull Brazilian ever!

you must love baptista then Gus

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Tatical fleibility? You have been watching to much Dream Team mate!

What tatical flexibility would have seen Viera drop to the bench to allow Flamini to play? Or Parlour? Or Edu? Nope none!

As you said yourself Viera and Diaby "are all action" midfielders! That would imply they are more talented and more versatile with more facets to their game than someone like Gilberto who as you say does not run a game or out muscle people. So what is he there for exactly? The modern game does not allow you the luxury of having a midfielder who simply sits infront of the back four end of story. The better option is the guy who can cover all these roles during a game...ala Viera/Diaby of the future!

Basically as you agree Diaby is a vitual clone of Viera, who in their prime was the better player? Viera or Gilberto? Only one answer hey! When you have a player of that quality thay adapt to a game and read situations which gives you flexibility! You dont have to change half the side for each game when your players are of the class Viera was and Diaby will be.

As for Denilson being Gilberto's natural replacement are we talking about the same Denilson? I would think he is much more of a playmaker than Gilberto with better distribution etc. Basically a hell of a lot more like Cesc than Gilberto! Statements like his tackling will get better in a couple of years make me laugh as they are built on what fact? Have you monitored his progress form a lad in Brazil and have a trend to back this claim up with?

Sorry but Im gonna be straight and say Ive never read such bollocks!

[DB10GOONER]

Tatical fleibility? You have been watching to much Dream Team mate!

What tatical flexibility would have seen Viera drop to the bench to allow Flamini to play? Or Parlour? Or Edu? Nope none!

As you said yourself Viera and Diaby "are all action" midfielders! That would imply they are more talented and more versatile with more facets to their game than someone like Gilberto who as you say does not run a game or out muscle people. So what is he there for exactly? The modern game does not allow you the luxury of having a midfielder who simply sits infront of the back four end of story. The better option is the guy who can cover all these roles during a game...ala Viera/Diaby of the future!

Basically as you agree Diaby is a vitual clone of Viera, who in their prime was the better player? Viera or Gilberto? Only one answer hey! When you have a player of that quality thay adapt to a game and read situations which gives you flexibility! You dont have to change half the side for each game when your players are of the class Viera was and Diaby will be.

As for Denilson being Gilberto's natural replacement are we talking about the same Denilson? I would think he is much more of a playmaker than Gilberto with better distribution etc. Basically a hell of a lot more like Cesc than Gilberto! Statements like his tackling will get better in a couple of years make me laugh as they are built on what fact? Have you monitored his progress form a lad in Brazil and have a trend to back this claim up with?

Sorry but Im gonna be straight and say Ive never read such bollocks!

Sorry magic hat, I'm with Gus on this one.

If you want to win things it's crucial you have midfielders that can adapt to any game. A midfielder that can only play against one particular type of team does not contribute to tactical flexability, he hinders it.

Championship winning sides force other teams to make tactical substitutions in an effort to stop them playing. Championship winning sides dictate the game. We need a midfield that dictates the game. If Diaby develops like I hope he will with more games under his belt, then his drive and steel (and skill) combined with Cesc's vision and genius would be awesome.

Gilberto is too old now to learn new tricks (like tackling and passing ).

I respect the man and think it would be good for us if he stayed as a squad player but Diaby has to get the shout ahead of him in the starting 11 every time.

However, contrary to what the esteemed Gus says, I have read worse b*llix on here!!

Some of it from me...

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Sorry DB1O!

I have excluded such things as signing Marlon Harewood from my comment as frankly thay are not worth mentioning at all! They were that bad they fell into a category far beyond bollocks which is not yet known to man!

[DB10GOONER]

Sorry DB1O!

I have excluded such things as signing Marlon Harewood from my comment as frankly thay are not worth mentioning at all! They were that bad they fell into a category far beyond bollocks which is not yet known to man!

You're not refering to...

...Oh my God - dare I say it...

You're not refering to...


...the mythical Mourinho b*llocks are you? Are you?

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Dont you dare use those words in here!

[Magic Hat]

Tatical fleibility? You have been watching to much Dream Team mate!

Not watched that for years, last episode aside, wasn't too bad a program but I don't think tactics was the point of the program

What tatical flexibility would have seen Viera drop to the bench to allow Flamini to play? Or Parlour? Or Edu? Nope none!

Veria at his best was undroppable, Diaby is a few years from that level but look who was Viera's regular partner? Petit and Gilberto, both holding players (though Petit had more to his game), helping the defence while Veria rampaged around. Yet when Cesc emerged, it was the holding player who was kept with the passer, not the passer and the all action hero.

As you said yourself Viera and Diaby "are all action" midfielders! That would imply they are more talented and more versatile with more facets to their game than someone like Gilberto who as you say does not run a game or out muscle people.

and who protects the defence while Cesc is getting forward, passing the ball around and Diaby is also getting forward? Both like to move forward more then defence and alteraniting who stays back limits someone, with a holding player behind them, they can just get forward without worrying too much about leaving a hole.

So what is he there for exactly? The modern game does not allow you the luxury of having a midfielder who simply sits infront of the back four end of story.

What use could a player who defenders and protects a defence have? Well Maschernio in the CL final or Gilberto against Villerial in the CL semi's and against Man U twice this season as the best examples off the top of my head. Rafe, Dunga, Alex Ferguson, Jose and Arsene use holding players for a reason, it adds some balance and makes a team more secure at the best

The better option is the guy who can cover all these roles during a game...ala Viera/Diaby of the future!

apart from their rampages forward being limited because of having to look over their shoulder? I never said the changes have to be half a dozen chances each game, that is quite silly (hello Liverpool), but being able to have options like a target man up front and a poacher, for example, means tactics can be tweaked or give options from the bench.

Basically as you agree Diaby is a vitual clone of Viera, who in their prime was the better player? Viera or Gilberto?

Who was greater, Ian Wright or the Ice Man? Both were great, both played different roles (poacher, magic assister). Would you put two Henry's up front of give him a partner like the Ice Man?

When you have a player of that quality thay adapt to a game and read situations which gives you flexibility!

I would like to point to England as an example of how that doesn't work. Now while England are not a great team, when did England looked better? When they played two many attacking players or had Hargreves?

As for Denilson being Gilberto's natural replacement are we talking about the same Denilson? I would think he is much more of a playmaker than Gilberto with better distribution etc.

Deep lying player maker who can shield the defence then play a good pass to set up the counter and honestly the only other option close is Flamini or Song which is a bit worrying. Lansbury could do it in a year or two maybe but not sure if Arsene plans to use him

Statements like his tackling will get better in a couple of years make me laugh as they are built on what fact? Have you monitored his progress form a lad in Brazil and have a trend to back this claim up with?

I refuse to believe a CM can tackle as badly as that all his career

Sorry but Im gonna be straight and say Ive never read such bollocks!

I'm glad you like insulting those you disagree with, it really raises the tone of the debate

If you want to win things it's crucial you have midfielders that can adapt to any game. A midfielder that can only play against one particular type of team does not contribute to tactical flexability, he hinders it.

Don't use a holding player in a game where you don't need one but go for muscle, in games where you know you need a shield to help the defence, use a holding player. Having players that don't play the same way as everyone else in your squad gives you the ability to tinker.

Championship winning sides force other teams to make tactical substitutions in an effort to stop them playing. Championship winning sides dictate the game. We need a midfield that dictates the game.

We do that in Europe and against Man U anyway so why not offer the defence protection? Note we also change formation sometimes from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 but do you think that is a bad thing? Playing away to Bolton is in no way the same way as playing at home to Barca, there is no shame in playing great attacking football but tweaking it slightly to help beat the opposition.

[I Hate Hleb]

I HAVE REALLY ENJOYED THIS THREAD, ESPECIALLY THE LAST FEW POSTS. A VERY WELL REASONED DEBATE BY ALL - PARTICULARLY GUS AND MAGICHAT.

ALTHOUGH I WOULDN'T TAKE GUS'S 'TALKING BOLLOCKS' COMMENT TOO SERIOUSLY MAGICHAT . SOMETIMES WE USE PROFANITIES FOR ENTHASIS AND NOT BECAUSE WE MEAN TO INSULT.

[Chunky The Gooner]

What about MATTY TAYLOR ?!!

[Chunky The Gooner]

What about MATTY TAYLOR ?!!