Arsenal’s Invincible Status At Risk

Gunners may need to beat Liverpool to prevent undefeated season

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Man City v Liverpool is on 4th April and could see Arsenal’s 49 match run equalled

Liverpool have 17 games remaining before they could complete the league season unbeaten and match Arsenal’s Invincibles, but in truth they’re only at risk in a handful. Most Arsenal fans do not want Liverpool to emulate our achievement, but it is very likely to happen.

The Anfield men have beasted the league so far, with 20 wins from 21 matches, to sit 14 points ahead of defending champions Manchester City with a game in hand. Jurgen Klopp’s side is now unbeaten in the league in over a calendar year and would most likely better Arsenal’s 2003-2004 record, as the Gunners drew 12 games. Liverpool look sure to win more than Arsenal’s 26. 

But a significant factor has gone unnoticed: Liverpool have gone the whole of the last two seasons unbeaten at Anfield. Their last home league defeat was the 2-1 loss to Crystal Palace in April 2017. Why would this formidable Liverpool team lose any of their remaining home games? I can’t see it happening. 

Liverpool demolish everything in their wake at Anfield. Their home crowd is deeply behind the team and the increased capacity has made the volume noticeably louder. Away teams are trampled underfoot by the entire experience. So that immediately appears to rule out much risk of defeat in half of Liverpool’s remaining games. Only nine of their final 17 matches are away. Liverpool winning the league unbeaten suddenly feels very real.

There is basic risk. Every match starts 0-0 and every result has to be achieved by every team, good or bad, hence there is inherent risk for Liverpool in every match. They still have to turn up and be this brilliant team that they’re being lauded for. 

The pressure of genuinely closing in on an epic achievement could yet weigh heavy. They are sure to be vulnerable at times, as they’re unlikely to steamroller every side and they can’t always rely on early goals or favourable VAR decisions. Could they wilt if key players like Virgil van Dijk and Sadio Mane got bad injuries after the transfer window ended?

There will also always be opponents in the run-in that are desperate to achieve something good or avoid something bad, but only about six of Liverpool’s remaining matches look to carry genuine risk of ending their unbeaten run and crushing their chance to emulate Arsenal’s Invincibles. 

Liverpool’s remaining away games are: Wolves, West Ham, Norwich, Watford, Everton, Man City, Brighton, Arsenal and Newcastle. You can make up your own mind over the risks involved there, with some matches coming before or after Champions League games too, but here are two key landmarks to consider.

Arsenal’s Invincibles went 49 games unbeaten. Liverpool are currently 38 league games without defeat, with 17 unbeaten in 2018-19 after the 2-1 defeat at Man City last January followed by the 21 without loss so far this season. Liverpool’s 49th game is Man City away again. If City can’t beat them, Liverpool’s penultimate away game is Arsenal. We might be our own best and last remaining hope.

Twitter@thatsimonrose

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64
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  1. nut flush gooner

    Jan 20, 2020, 12:52 #116272

    There aren't many Gooners I know that aren't counting down to 49 undefeated for the scousers. To have another team replicate what we did in 2004 and eclipse it, would just exacerbate how we have allowed ourselves to slip from those standards in 2004 to where we are today. I have admiration for their team, but can't stand Liverpool fans. I for one won't be celebrating their achievement if they do get there. I cannot believe any gooner as has been the case in these comments has suggested otherwise.

  2. Moscowgooner

    Jan 19, 2020, 08:11 #116248

    I don’t think Liverpool is that ‘brilliant team’. They are surrounded by mediocrity and clubs in transition. Both City and ourselves have every motivation to go full out and beat them. And if they have the title wrapped up soon and are focused on Europe then Norwich or Watford could spring a surprise. But, I very much hope they come to Arsenal undefeated. It would be a cup final for us and superb to deny them immortality. One of my least favourite clubs.

  3. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 17, 2020, 16:19 #116236

    @Ron I think it's much better in terms of London, Oxford etc. than it is East Kent, but certainly agree there are many great people in SE England too.

  4. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 17, 2020, 16:15 #116235

    Interesting observations, Mark. I've got relatives who do/have lived in Cornwall where there's similar hatred of outsiders/foreigners to the community. Doesn't have to be the case that such tribalism ensues, as we've all said (Liverpool a good case in point), but can happen. Plenty of parts of London are becoming highly dangerous now too. I've heard some parts of the city never cease hearing gunfire, and I assumed the knife crime reporting was just a media frenzy till I lived in West London for a short while last year. I was staying in Fulham Palace Road for a short while, just to do research for my PhD. Place was FULL of dangerous looking people and I realised then that the knife crime epidemic is just symptomatic of the ghettoisation of so much of the city. A couple of months after I left it was reported on the news that someone had been stabbed in Fulham Palace Road, following a 'minor argument' starting in Sainsburys at midnight. Chilling for me personally as I'd 'chanced it' and gone out at around 10pm to that very supermarket a couple of months before. Still some nice places to live in London but so much of the city is in a malaise.

  5. itsRonagain2

    Jan 17, 2020, 16:02 #116234

    Hi Lads. All good stuff. Its a big debate isnt it about the regions and people etc etc. Theres good bad and indifferent everywhere really. All that i can say is that i d need a good reason before i would go back South, but still have some good mates there and a Sister in Woodford. As a general rule of thumb though, i think the Northerners are generally far more warm and genuine, but there are some serious bad ones too. Their main redeeming feature is that they 'dont 'pose' as we find in the SE. They are what they are and speak as they find more often than not. We speak of the scousers and how i find them, but i would also say that the mafioso style community 'rules' that pervade certain areas of Liverpool isnt recommended to fall foul of! We always think of that as a London thing dont we. Theres also far more over crowding and also higher stakes of wealth to argue and fight over in the SE so that goes some way to peoples dispositions towards each other back down South too. Ive known quote a few who've left the SE and few have ever gone back for all the reasons we ve been discussing and of course the cost of living. The regions all have different cultures really and it makes us all what we are. The crux of it in the South East i think is that people dont like to open up too much about themselves or trust anybody very quickly and its makes south easterners seem stand offish. Northerners dont really get that, theyre far quicker to mix and have some banter and thus they interpret it SE people as being unfriendly. Reality is that once they do open up and stop talking themselves too seriously theres some wonderful people down South too.

  6. markymark

    Jan 17, 2020, 14:59 #116233

    ArsenalMagna - very parochial communities can be the most rewarding to live in and certainly a lot of the Northern towns feel that way. However the bad side is often racial intolerance and intolerance to strangers unless you learn to fit in. Back in the early 90’s I entered the strange world of living in Rotherhithe South East London whilst it was on the cusp of major change. some locals were desperately hanging onto old school ways. In the local pubs you could just as easily meet a yuppie who liked the seamier side of life or a tough guy. Street punishment could happen including a finger nailed to a pub door. I knew a real life Dot Cotton ( lovely woman ) the son was on the run . Local villains still paid visits to say hello. Strangers had to fit in. Black people not tolerated. Time Out called it the “Deep South” I thought that was a bit strong but then after reading that I witnessed a guy with long hair surrounded by a group of lads warning him they were going to give him a kicking . Literally a long hair kick shitting community Alabama style . It was very tight knit , a right raucous time but full of some very unpleasant individuals. I suspect Salford is still very similar .

  7. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 17, 2020, 14:02 #116232

    @Ron, sorry to hear of your loss, firstly. The United-Liverpool rivlary has always seemed arbitrary to me too, and yet they're just close enough together that it doesn't get dropped! Interesting and true what you say about Scousers - I really like all the ones I've met, as well many other people from other parts of the north. It's funny because so many people that I've met from up north are wonderful people; down to earth, kind, and they let you know where you stand with them. They have genuine community up there and look out for each other. I appreciate those qualities. This is the polar opposite of where I'm based in East Kent, where people are generally cold, two-faced, highly insecure, snobs when they have nothing to be snobby about, and utterly selfish. On the other hand, others from the up north, like the Mancs, as you said, can be some awful hooligans and yobs. It's partly the economic neglect of the rest of the UK outside the Southeast that produces both the good and the bad in the north. You get community develop partly due to the need for cooperation between the poor, but you can also get rough and destructive individuals who are disenfranchised from society.

  8. markymark

    Jan 17, 2020, 12:20 #116231

    Hi Ron - so sorry to hear of your loss. I’d read one or two of your references to Liverpool and guessed you had a bit of an inside track on the place. Your comments about conversation are very true as well. We often find ourselves nattering to complete strangers up there. We are now selling up but had a couple of renters up there. One set of tenants in Dingle said it really reminded them of Bermondsey . The other house we bought in Fairfield I know my wife said she’d live there . The area is right up on the deprivation scale but having lived in South East and East End of London it feels relaxed. The lady next door was lovely and went through all the neighbours on the street racially profiling them as she went whilst adding how nice they were. We were trying hard to stifle our giggles . In some ways Liverpool is 20 years behind “Woke” London and that’s not always a bad thing

  9. itsRonagain2

    Jan 17, 2020, 11:26 #116230

    Hi Cyril - Markys right mate. The latest spud mirage for success has receded into the ether now. Probably be another in about 5 years time for the to get all excited about. Youre absolutely right though to describe our situ as a result of complacency. That ground shift has a lot to answer for. Arsenal thought moving from a two bed terrace to a detached Persimmon Homes built house on an estate made them 'middle class' and they started giving it the big one, but forgot to live up to their own hype.

  10. itsRonagain2

    Jan 17, 2020, 11:15 #116229

    Morning Marky - Totally right matey. Liverpool is a City that you can go out at night time into the centre alone and you wont be on yr own for more than 10 mins. Quick to get chatting to you and bring you into their midst etc etc. My late Partner lived in North Liverpool towards Aintree area until i lost her 5 years ago and i had a lovely 4 plus years being up there regularly. Im not a great fan of LFC really and never have been, but your summary there about the two cities matches my experience 100%. Many wont agree, but when they say Liverpool is a special place, im fully with that view of it. Ive long held the view that no other clubs fans would have got to the the Hilsboro outcome as they did, such is their passion and sense of doing whats right needing to be done that there is amongst scousers. I think its that which is very much the' fuel' that makes football in Liverpool so vibrant. No other clubs have that in England in my view.

  11. markymark

    Jan 17, 2020, 07:23 #116228

    Cyril - I think Potch turned them into a force albeit a team that blew up up under a winding up at Stamford Bridge , blew a semi final in a poor display against UTD and on this one blame Potch for playing an unfit Kane against Liverpool . Result nothing , not a sausage . Eriksen their most productive silky player is off. Maureen after his antics at Southampton I’d on a rinse and repeat cycle. Of all the teams Chelsea are most likely to buy themselves into contention. Man UTD seem to buy themselves out of contention and we are on a complete rebuild . Next 5 years for anyone other than present top 2 is up for grabs . Ron - one of the things I noticed that is different between Liverpool and Manchester is that you can generally bomb around Toxteth , Dingle , Walton , Kensington etc without issue and people don’t react like your a space alien if your accents different. Visits to Manchester by contrast as soon as your outside of the real centre and in a Whaley range or near Moss side type area you become a sitting duck. Others will no doubt feel different but I much prefer Liverpool

  12. Cyril

    Jan 17, 2020, 03:22 #116227

    Loving all the comments about the rivalry. Alas, these are not the days of the persil packet away day freebies and the trotting out of old British Rail stock (re ICF -west ham). Spurs are a major force and my central tenet is about how complacent our club has become.

  13. Nigel

    Jan 16, 2020, 22:59 #116226

    Ron, the 78 match was also my first away match. I was 15 and on the walk back to Seven Sisters I took a battering and knocked unconscious on the police station steps of all places. I haven't been down there for 10 years now and would never consider taking one of my lads to the place. And not all Spurs fans are entirely happy with the new stadium, a mate with a season ticket of 30+ years complains of the plastic seats and leg room or rather the lack of it.

  14. itsRonagain2

    Jan 16, 2020, 21:59 #116225

    Ps. And in the main we win !!

  15. itsRonagain2

    Jan 16, 2020, 21:55 #116224

    Marky. Not surprised to hear that. The Baggies fans are a good lot. When we’re there I go with a couple of blokes and their daughters who been going Albion for yrs I’ve been in their Birmingham Road end a few times. Never a problem. They moan about their team as much as wd do ha ha. Always found their crowd very knowledgable about footie and always credit the opponent when their well beaten. Bham City is a ground I wdt go to now if they ever got promoted again. Sinister atmosphere there. Like Tottenham. AM - that scouse/Manx rivalry up there. I’ve never quite got that. How can yr derby be with a club 36 mikes away when yr neighbour is 5 miles away or in Liverpool , a community park away. ? I think it’s an artificial manufactured derby. It’s sinister and really unhealthy as you say even today. There’s a mutual hostility between inhabitants of both City’s up there outside of football. I’ve always found the loathing to be more manc to Liv direction than the other way about. I went to college in Manchester years ago. Early 70s. Grim stuff being amongst them. Mancs are in many ways a sneering surly lot. Think the Gallaghers . Manchester was really rough and on its uppers back then. College full of em. City were the top side then. The derby at Maine Road was fierce on and off the pitch. The work the Arabs who own City have done in east Manchester is impressive. That was horrible out there. Muggers paradise. The best thing about our derby is that it’s always the best to watch. Exciting. Fast. Rarely a poor game. Great goals. Neutrals love it and in fairness it’s playerd in the right spirit usually bar the odd handbags isn’t it. No other derby compares in my view. Nothing better than stuffing it up them at WHL is there !

  16. markymark

    Jan 16, 2020, 19:24 #116223

    Ron just read your comment about the young lad . That is awful . I remember a few tales of Liverpool supporters at Wembley hitting Young Wimbledon supporters back in their upset final. I was having a look at stats over who’s best supported who’s got most social media etc. It seems Chelsea have done a huge job in India and Vie with us. The Spuds have a very low world wide fan base in comparison it tends to reflect their lack of support outside of Harlow

  17. markymark

    Jan 16, 2020, 19:12 #116222

    It’s Ron - funny thing as you say football supporters. I go through Marylebone a lot and when WBA came though a few years back the worst of it was some cheeky Black Country banter aimed at some posh Chalfont ladies ( think they quite enjoyed it ) more like a test cricket crowd really. Then Birmingham City came through on a later occasion and the whole place went into lock down. I was trapped in a pub ( poor old me ! ) and listened to A brummy called Barry’s, tell his woes . The Police spotters had spotted him on his planned route down to Millwall. None of them were young and all had a nasty attitude more of a “Crew” up to know good I’d say . Smart work by the police I thought The difference between the upbeat cheeky WBA and the intense moody and very aggressive Birmingham City was stark.

  18. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 16, 2020, 19:08 #116221

    @Ron that really is horrible. Even without football Tottenham feels like it's always on the verge of a riot - a truly horrible place.

  19. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 16, 2020, 18:01 #116220

    @Exiled, don't get me wrong, geographical rivalries can be great, and tribalism can be great. What I object to is when it gets to the level the Spurs are at where they're essentially feral animals, or where Liverpool fans mock the Munich air crash and United in return mock the Hillsborough disaster, that's when it's gone too far, and seems to be rooted in its being geographical and therefore long-running, and built up in terms of tension/hatred.

  20. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 16, 2020, 17:49 #116219

    Only problem with looking at the rivalries on a competitive level means we have not had one in the last 14 years ! At least derby days with all the London clubs but especially with our nearest and dearest give us some bragging rights for a couple of days . Perhaps i am just an old neanderthal that loved the old days too much .......

  21. itsRonagain2

    Jan 16, 2020, 17:44 #116218

    Hi lads. Nothing like venting the spleen about that vile lot. My first visit was the 5-0 back in 78 ish time when Brady tortured them The only fans of another club that i can liken to them based on visits away is Bham City. They have a faction that is very dangerous and tribal doesn't describe them. Its far more than that. Theyre the same though. Embittered and twisted neanderthals who follow a club with no tradition, barely any honours or history and who know that Aston Villa if they were in the Isthmian League would still be a bigger club. Havid said all this when they were in the PL , ive never been spat at or been with a 12 year old who has had any reason to be wary. The worst missile has been flares thrown toward the pitch. Unlike the stuff ive seen at WHL this last 40 odd years of being stupid enough to go there from time to time.My last visit was that 0-0 about 6 or 7 yrs ago when cult hero Eboue was sent off and Lord Bendtner missed the sitter in the last seconds that would have won it. In a way afterwards i was glad he missed. The throwing stuff and the spitting was all laughed at by their fat overweight piss poor stewards in the dump and the piss poor coppers outside who do not give a fig about what they do. My mates 12 year old was punched to the head and robbed of his Gunners scarf and program. He was terrified and hasn't wanted to go to football ever since save for a few non league matches. It s always that case when you look at the away end there on derby day and there isnt much red showing in the crowd. Tells it all doesn't it. The worst vandalising of the shops i saw was when we won 3-1 there in the 2007/8 season. Its right what you lads say, the whole club and everything they do is influenced by what they see happening in N5. Its always been the same hasn't it though they deny it. They would sooner see us go down than win the title themselves im sure. I used to know a few spuds of course , we all do and some are OK. Im glad i see or meet none now. They must be the worst supported club across the Country generally?. On my travels and in the regions ive lived in since 1983, i truly cant recall meeting a spuds fan outside of London. I truly hope that club remains as shite as its always been and never wins as much as an egg cup. As for the new dump, i hope the place sustains chronic subsidence. Its fans deserve absolutely ziltch. I only see that awful kit of theirs and that stupid cockerel and it gets my heckles up. Stick Kanes and Allis face in it and its even worse!

  22. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 16, 2020, 17:16 #116217

    @Exiled that was my point - it's the owners who decide to move their clubs, so others hating that club and their fans doesn't really make sense. I'm personally of the view that geographic rivalries aren't that meaningful - it's the competitive ones that matter. Arsenal vs United 98-2006, Liverpool vs Chelsea in the mid-late noughties etc.

  23. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 16, 2020, 16:49 #116216

    AM if shite hart lane is less appealing to the modern corporate fan then , i would happily go and ground share with them .. They have every right to hate us we moved in took the piss and have done ever since really , its what makes the rivalry so great . I dont think your find any real Arsenal supporter who wanted to move around the corner to the concrete bowl we wanted to stay where we were and i would imagine the genuine scum supporter would never of wanted to move to East London . Owners of clubs will move anywhere if it makes them more money if the tango man had his way we would be playing in Wembley , real supporters are not considered when it comes to decisions by the owners .

  24. markymark

    Jan 16, 2020, 16:48 #116215

    Jimmy Greaves had it right when he said Arsenal are a bigger club and that was when we were dreadful in the sixties and the Spuds were relatively successful

  25. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 16, 2020, 16:15 #116214

    The Spuds really are an awful club. Their whole identity is based on hating us - to the extent that they actually hate Arsenal more than they love Tottenham. What I find so ironic about it all is that it's because we moved into 'their' territory, yet their owners were quite happy to move them to East London a few years ago. I put this to a Spud who said 'they were just bargaining with the government to get funds for their stadium', which might be true, but choosing between the East London area; which is booming with investment and enterprise vs the place which was the source of the London riots, one of biggest ****holes in Europe, where it isn't safe to go out at night (I know - two of my mates had masked muggers attack them as they weren't with the crowd of exiting fans after a game), and therefore in no way appeals to the modern corporate fan, seems strange...

  26. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jan 16, 2020, 15:12 #116213

    Ron/Exiled : When my father was very ill and in to his last few weeks, he said to me don't forget what I told you "enrol me in the Spurs supporters club because it is better that one of those b*stards go than one of us" it was his favourite joke when it came to the Spuds. He detested their supporters because of their huge inferiority complex when it came to Arsenal, he used to say it was impossible to discuss football with them because anything you said they took very personally. I think the manager they now have makes them finally complete - it will end in huge tears of that you can be sure, if they did not exist you would have to invent them.

  27. markymark

    Jan 16, 2020, 15:03 #116212

    The When I lived around Brick Lane I remember taking a walk around to Liverpool St to catch one of the pubs for the football. Noticed that in n the Hampden Hall pub by L Street there was screaming roaring and god knows what with police and dog handlers gathered outside. Then the police gave the command and the Alsatian’s were released , bolting into the pub. Thought I’d ask a friendly Policeman what an earth was going on. “Tottenham supporters I was informed “ I bid a friendly farewell and popped around the corner to watch the game in a nice pub . Grinning as I imagined the Neanderthal Spuds getting lumps bitten out of . Never was there a more deserving case.

  28. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 16, 2020, 14:05 #116211

    Ron , you reminded me of why i love going there so much ... One of my favourite tunes , to do is to dare to do is to dare 13 league titles youve only won 2 . In the words of CG it is a shit hole in a shit place with shit support . Middlesex number 1 team

  29. itsRonagain2

    Jan 16, 2020, 13:52 #116210

    SKG - All sorts of new exciting ventures open up for the spuds isnt there now. Brand new toilets of their own to smash to pieces so that they can emulate how they smash them up at Arsenal most seasons, but with far newer, shiny urinals and sinks to enjoy the effects of the damage. More room to spit their plegm at the opposition fans as well as having a wider area to lob their missiles too. The greatest bonus though is that its built in the same desirable area, so they can still make their way to the High Road after the games and beat up the odd 12 year old and all of the shops are still there in place to smash up the fronts too. Its all win, win, win for the spuds there now. Fantastic legendary club, fantastic atmosphere created by those fantastic passionate social paragons there, truly fantastic fans as there should be given the clubs glorious, trophy laden history. To do is to dare. Coooome oooonnnn yooooo spuuuursss. Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur.

  30. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jan 16, 2020, 10:46 #116209

    Hi Cyril - does The Spuds new ground have an area where they can "corral" the Arsenal fans and whilst we are trapped lop missiles at us over a wall? That was my last (and final) visit to that end of London.

  31. Cyril

    Jan 15, 2020, 23:55 #116208

    MM- I’m pleased you got a little off your ale. I resign as a moaner this evening, I can’t get thru. Maybe, I talk in an unbalanced way- but I truly must stop.

  32. markymark

    Jan 15, 2020, 23:24 #116207

    No doubt the Spurs ground is wonderful but the area is god awful and the transport bloody awful. It’s a real schlep up the Seven Sisters. Personally I think they may find it difficult to turn the stadium to an event area over say West Ham’s Stratford based ground. Either way modern stadia don’t really do it for me. I quite like Barca’s ground though that has a mixture of different generations of building and a very accessible museum . They’ve done theirs well. I’m not overly concerned about Spurs , Man UTD or even Chelsea at this point. We need incremental improvements across the squad and a lot of the players will be shifted , The great battle will be who can take on Man City and Liverpool maybe Post Klopp and Guardiola. It’ll be a 5 season job to do it I reckon . Ps Cyril it’s not brilliant but there is Or was a real Ale concession at the Emirates. I discovered last time I went.

  33. Cyril

    Jan 15, 2020, 20:27 #116206

    Hi Ron, there is negativity about as we all fed up with being treated like fools. I have always known like yourself that it is Kroenke who needs ousting and Wenger was the pawn in front of him. Under Gazidis, they spent the time tossing the ‘hot potato’ from Wenger and back when the natives are/were restless. He went 3 months after Wenger- odd that! We have a good feel factor about MA and that should see them thru the next phase of bullshine. Nearly 15 years and counting. When have they ever sat down and really understood that they needed to make important strategic decisions to make this club competitive. It’s £4 a pint at spurs for a decent sup. I pay £5.70 for slops. The match day is being run by stewards who are jumped up little Hitlers. They tosh out the slops in a line and at any given count amounts to about £500 worth of trade on the ramp behind. I bet they wouldn’t bat an eyelid if the whole lot fell on the floor. It’s a shambles. At Spurs, I have been reliably informed, if you have the privilege of being in the area where the players all trot out- it’s 32k for your experience. There is plenty of money swimming around as a fan down there now. At Arsenal, they have drained as much as they possibly can from the DNA of the fans and it’s history. Don’t be surprised if and when Spurs come good. Sorry to be so negative. It clearly is a long term set up there now. Meanwhile back at base camp we can see that Mr Kroenke will likely suck the negativity like a parasite until the next guy comes in and buys up. I’m furious as in the middle of this shit storm, paying my ticket up. The Kroenks are like Jeremy Kyle-he lets everyone wind each other up- keeps his powder dry and will inevitably say - oh I tried - we tried but they are so demanding, let’s just sell!

  34. itsRonagain2

    Jan 15, 2020, 19:25 #116205

    Hi Cyril. Interesting mate. It does look a superb stadium. Shame about where it is !! Never quite figured why it is but in football, there are certain clubs in certain Cities and Towns neighbouring other Clubs who always, no matter what they do and what try will fall short and fail. It’s as if there’s a chemical reaction in their midst that poisons them. You see it all over. Bham City will never be any good. Bristol Rovers always 2nd to City. Sheff Utd are really the stragglers to Wednesday. West Ham. Always a calamity club. Chelsea. Never quite recognised or seen as a power house despite the last 15 years. Everton. Ever in the shadow of Iverpool tho do have a decent history. In Tottenham’s case I truly think it’s as if they’re cursed. The expression always in our shadow I think is immovable. However poor we are. As a rival it’s a comfort to know this for me. The team there always makes us laugh in the end. It’s reassuring while we are as we are. That stadium is wasted on them I think. Great place tho by all accounts. We re lucky to have been brought up as Gunners however pissed off we are right now. Imagine as kids being coached to follow that shower? As far as stadiums go, designing one shdt be too difficult. Just walk around and inside the Emirates and do exactly the opposite to what they did when they built and furnished that. Bloody awful place and totally unsuited to British football and climate.

  35. itsRonagain2

    Jan 15, 2020, 19:07 #116204

    Good point Bard about the sentiment towards MA. Obviously we don’t know him but based on what we see, he s always come across to me as a really nice guy. Top pro. Good sport. Fair and respectful of the game and opponents. He was a superb player at Everton. A shadow of what he d been when we bought him but still very decent. Hope he does get us going and stays a while beyond this owner. I hope realises the good will there is towards him. He probably does.

  36. Bard

    Jan 15, 2020, 18:50 #116203

    I agree with most of the posts but despite feeling gloomy about the side I do feel hopeful about the future I dont believe Stan is in a strong position. He wont survive as an owner if the sh** hits the fan. He and his businesses will be too exposed. As I have said before empty seats/ slack ticket sales mean disaster. Remember the US sports teams are ring fenced, there isnt any promotion or relegation. If we have another season like this one he will be in trouble. I dont think the fans will put up with it. We're all behind MA he's an Arsenal man,so where will all the abuse be aimed at ?

  37. Cyril

    Jan 15, 2020, 18:33 #116202

    Great musings from you all. I was chatting to a spurs fan before he headed off to WHL and was telling me they all go a few hours earlier and make a day of it. Great beer served in a pub like manner, in other words no queueing up for ages as they string across the bars. God knows how many bars they have. They have bands on as well. Such a shame that they don’t care a tuppence at Arsenal. We used to have a band in the old clock end bar at Highbury and that was 20 years ago. Don’t even get me started on the wet sales situation. Spurs, spot on again as have gone cashless. I have to be careful what I say here but with the system we have at Arsenal - cash transactions being the major barter, they are losing in wet sale revenue. I will let you all work out what I mean. It’s a completely rudderless ship drifting about. Is it any wonder, when the Owner never turns up ? You can’t stop progression and it looks like Spurs are giving a 1st class service and day out to their fans. I have a lot of mates who are Spurs fans and I’m pleased they enjoy themselves. Gutted at they way we have been treated all these years lads!

  38. Redshrtswhitesleeves

    Jan 15, 2020, 17:56 #116201

    Arteta saying no signings on the horizon and none likely. What a surprise. There is no ambition at the club whatsoever besides cashing in on the PL money. Last seasons Jan transfer window proved that with the ridiculous loan signing of Dennis Suarez. Had that w*nker Kroenke been serious, a couple of half decent signings would all but guaranteed top 4 and CL league footy for this season. I think we will all rot away with boredom and apathy before there is anything to get genuinely excited about. What a state this club is in with this awful owner who does not give tuppence for the club or it’s fans

  39. markymark

    Jan 15, 2020, 17:42 #116200

    Ron - Hull definitely left a bad taste it felt like he’d got out of jail for the umpteenth time . However I suppose that led in its own way to Chelsea. I was seemingly surrounded by cocky Chelsea support at the time so it was a real jolt in self belief that just tumbled away again so quickly. I’m not against the Kroenkes going, but to do it you’ve got to separate the performance on the pitch to the owners. If concerted effort is applied during a relative recovery it could work but just wait for the self entitled supporter comments from Journo’s etc. We will be painted as the English equivalent of Real Madrid supporters. Spoilt and never happy. It doesn’t make any movement to remove Kroenke wrong but be prepared for the brickbats. Put the Tin hats on it’s Operation Remove Stan !

  40. itsRonagain2

    Jan 15, 2020, 16:33 #116199

    Its a shame isnt it Tony that we had and won those finals and yet many of us have no sentiment about them and see them as negatives cos of AW and the surrounding situ. Most clubs (Tottenham for one) would dine out for 50 years on doing that. Its a measure of where the club has been with the supporters. I only watched the Chelsea one to be honest.

  41. TonyEvans

    Jan 15, 2020, 15:43 #116197

    Hi Ron - you are probably right, top 4 being the holy grail, but losing to Hull may just have done for him. I remember at the time thinking I would gladly take the loss if I could have been certain it would do the trick. Wenger should have used that final win to step aside on a triumphal note; he could have gone then with his head (just about) held high, and the many of us fans who now despise him probably would have forgiven him his Project Youth years. Clinging on for those extra few years after 2014 was the final straw for me.

  42. itsRonagain2

    Jan 15, 2020, 14:50 #116196

    Tony - i think that while the top 4 trophy was being won, any Cup Final loss would have passed without a ripple in the boardroom. Lets recall 'Chips' chect puffed proud recital shall we ' If Arsene doesnt have a plan, then neither do we'. Such was Wengos vice like grip on them back then. He was like Rasputin in that Boardroom. Bunch of chumps.

  43. TonyEvans

    Jan 15, 2020, 14:36 #116195

    When I think back to my own anger and frustration (about 10 years worth of it) at the decline in our fortunes since 'game 50' I am still gob-smacked that there was not even one person with any influence at the club who could see (or even took an interest in) what so many of us fans could, and do something about it, or at least try to do something. They were obviously all far too busy lining their own pockets to see the developing shambles on the pitch. Quite incredible really that the slide to the gutter was never halted, or even noticed until it was far too late and now we face a huge rebuilding job. The stadium move was used as a massive excuse for under-investment in players and the indulgence of Wenger's flawed, lunatic, Project Youth and we are reaping what was sown now. As previously stated the unbeaten season gave Wenger an undeserved status as some sort of managerial genius; also the 3 FA Cup wins bought Le Fraud extra time - I still wonder what would have happened had we lost to Hull.

  44. itsRonagain2

    Jan 15, 2020, 14:00 #116194

    Marky - so true mate about how that unbeaten Season bought Wenger about 8 years. Bang on.

  45. itsRonagain2

    Jan 15, 2020, 13:52 #116193

    Lads, just as an aside in terms of what (with hindsight) would have allowed AFC to progress, i reckon their witch hunt of the Uzbek chap Uzminov now look s a bit sick. They did their best hatchet job on him didn't they and persuaded the fans of which, a great many of them were still then under the influence of the Wengo opium stimulant, that he was the Club wrecking, devilish Mr Nasty. Has the this clown Kroenke proved any better? I think AU had Kroenkes number from the off. Now hes piling his money muscle into Evertons growth, irrespective of their losses announced yesterday. I think it was one of the fans organisations if recall correctly, that started the 'moral mission' to denounce Uzminov, having bought into the Hill Wood. Kroenke narrative. I wonder what they think now of their handiwork.

  46. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 15, 2020, 13:15 #116192

    The Kroenkes will sell up if there's concerted pressure from the fans. As I said before, Wenger and Emery were out within weeks of the ground emptying, and once the fans' ire became focused on the owners rather than the manager, with last summer's open letter to the Kroenkes from the fan groups, they spent over £100m in the transfer market despite being on a shoestring budget. Sadly there won't be a dedicated fan movement to get the owners out unless we are really stuck, say years of mid-table mediocrity or worse.

  47. Bard

    Jan 15, 2020, 11:02 #116191

    Great posts CG and Ron. The club are playing a dicey game with us fans. They are trying to con us into believing that ambition is all when in reality it's about the money. Its dicey because they need to sell season tickets and fill the ground. This is essential for sponsorship and the brand. But if they dont buck up on the field there will be empty seats. This did for Wenger in the end and to some extent Emery. MA needs to be given a chance and to do that they need to spend a bit on 3 or 4 players. My sense is that a lot of the fans are starting to wake up and that's bad news for Stan. He is more vulnerable here than he is in the US because football is more tribal than sports in th US. It's a global game now, empty seats and protests against the owner are shown round the world. It cant be ignored. Burying his head in the sand isnt going to work long term. Exciting times or not ?

  48. markymark

    Jan 15, 2020, 07:15 #116190

    Just woke up in a cold sweat after dreaming Graham Perry’s Arsenal Circular with us in 20th place staring relegation in the face. In terms of records and silly names given to teams I felt maybe a little bit treacherous or off message by never buying up to the Invincible Schlick . It hid a number of sins as others have pointed out. It also was used as a don’t dare have a go at Wenger weapon for many years afterwards when change was really needed and could have turned around our lot. For the moment the gegenpress is crushing everything before it and Klopp has come an awful long way since celebrating that draw against West Brom? Might be incorrect regarding team I’ve felt the unbeaten run has been threatened for some time. It could easily go this year. Farewell ! We can be a whole lot better seeking micro improvements in our game . I still contend it’s worst to support UTD at the moment . Constant humble pie as the old order was cast upside down.

  49. itsRonagain2

    Jan 14, 2020, 20:58 #116189

    Quite right CG. MA s appointment is yet to reveal whether this is a direction of travel and it’s the recent history that has dictated the present situ isn’t it. As I see us , we ve had nil direction or planning since project youth was supposed to be the blueprint for low price, low investment success, since then the club has been happy to tread water and make do and mend as evidenced by the oft atrocious signings. Looking at SKs other enterprises he s not going to be fussed being mid table. He s not going to change at all in my view. 13 years of his ownership tells us that. What does this mean and what would be the catalyst to make him change? I don’t think there is anyone thing. I think the lower we fall the better chance of him selling up occurs. This was the rationale for a few of us actually contemplating the unthinkable ie a relegation scrap. A few posters have construed that to mean that we actually ‘ wished’ for it. That’s silly as of course it’s not wanted. Quite a few though , me included think we’re destined for also ran status until he s gone. The owner going was always the main plank of the argument for me before Wengo slinging his hook. MA has come in with a mission of low budget managing and coaching players to get better as I see it. Big job with quite a few of the players we have.

  50. CORNISH GOONER

    Jan 14, 2020, 19:24 #116188

    Not really interested in this old history - far more concerned about AFC's destination of travel. We may well have unearthed a player gem or two & also a fine manager but until we stop being seen as one point on a career path for, say, Mikel, Gabriel & Nico then what's the bleeding' point? Like it or not, London is a world city & should host at least one world class club. But until we see some ambition from portfolio king Stanley nothing will change. Perhaps young Josh will commit - otherwise we will scratching around for another billionaire, like the Nigerian guy, who at least professes to be a fan - but apparently he has got to build a new port & infrastructure first!! Isn't big business wonderful?

  51. Don Howe

    Jan 14, 2020, 18:27 #116187

    If Liverpool do this then good luck to them. We aren't the only team to have done it. Preston North End did it in 1800 and frozen to death as Des Lynham said many years ago. Klopp can organise an attack and a defence which is more than the French Fraud ever could. We have 13 Championships (one unbeaten) 13 FA Cups and three doubles. Not bad at all but not the most successful. That's our position. If we want to be best we have to get off our fat Arsenal's and win things. 6 European Cups to win and 8 Championships.

  52. itsRonagain2

    Jan 14, 2020, 18:00 #116186

    Some great views there lads. I preferred the 89 and 91 teams to any of our later sides built by Wenger. OK, they weren't so sexy but sexy football wasn't in vogue then, it was still a game for athletes and not ballet dancers want it. On PV 4, i dont think we could have kept him and he had declined rapidly, probably due to his heavy breathing and sweating while he humped Real Madrids legs for 2 years. Broadly speaking, that team of 49 ers, good as it was showed flakiness in many games when they fell behind but got out of jail often. It had peaked by game 50 if not before and as you lads say, Wengers and the older players attitudes stunk for 6 months during the Manager led sulkfest that followed. Had the roles have been reversed Fergie would have used the same situ to have his players fired up for revenge and another title tilt, not pathetic decline. The club needed 2 or 3 top players buying in the close season after that. In that game 50 i was always of the view that the players were not prepared to go to war with that manure shower at OT so to over come their 12th man (the ref) on the pitch which we all knew was the case in advance. Poor management. We needed to go there and have a player fix Rooney early on and hand a real physical lesson to Van Nistelroy. Utd knew their limitations and offset them. Basically though, the players in fairness maybe had the mindset that had we have 20 players on the pitch MU were not going to be allowed to lose that day. With that in mind, it needed a real war, not a football match. Wenger as a personality coudlnt create the required mindset. He disrespected the fact of it being v Man U at OT and wanted to do a 2002 again by sheer football to try and humiliate Fergsuon. AF wasnt having that on that afternoon. Wenger should have known as should the players.

  53. ArsenalMagna

    Jan 14, 2020, 16:02 #116185

    I know our decline started at the end of the unbeaten run, but I think there were already some signs that the amazing team which won the double in 2002 wasn't being regenerated properly. Jens the Layman was nowhere near Seaman's level, whilst Lauren, Campbell, Toure and Gilberto were good players but not quite at the Adams/Dixon level. I think the back players' inadequacies weren't that apparent because our counterattacking was so deadly - Pires and Henry especially could launch amazing counters virtually on their own, so we could keep more players back, and teams were scared to commit too heavily against us. 04-05, Henry and Pires, as well as Vieira, Freddie and DB10 were starting to decline (still great, but fading more and more) and we never really replaced them. You could see that the many of the players Wenger bought for years were meant to be carbon copies of the legends: RvP = Bergkamp, Diaby = Vieira, Rosicky = Pires, Walcott = Henry. MEANT to be - only RvP and Fabregas really delivered, and many of the players brought in were too young. Think we made a mistake in not accepting the world record bid for Henry in 2006 and keeping Pires and Vieira, going for a blend of youth and experience. Similar situation we face today really. We need to bring through the young players gradually but do we stick with Auba and Laca who are older or try to bring in players at around 25-27 years old instead? Big decisions lay ahead for MA.

  54. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 14, 2020, 14:42 #116184

    At least we can say we were the first to do it . Personally still think 90/91 season was better losing the one game !! Nice to see we slipped out the top ten money league also , hope that has upset the Wank Yank !!

  55. TonyEvans

    Jan 14, 2020, 14:21 #116183

    Hi Bard - not often I disagree with any of your comments and I understand the state of this current Arsenal side is far more important then unbeaten runs but I would still be very disappointed if Liverpool do go on to complete the season unbeaten. Redshirts - I agree about that game 50, we never really recovered and Wenger's true colours started to emerge.

  56. Exiled in Pt

    Jan 14, 2020, 14:18 #116182

    I would hate it if they did it just purely as Ron and others have said we will never hear the last of it in the media. Problem will be if they continue the way there going it will be a more impressive season they only need 6 more wins to equal our wins in 03/04 . More to the point they have gone so many years without winning the league they are more likely to not drop of the pace . I have to agree with you Red shirts , we never recovered from that 50th game , maybe if we had held on to the lead in Paris in 2006 it might of all been different .....Its a funny old game !

  57. Redshrtswhitesleeves

    Jan 14, 2020, 13:27 #116181

    Looking back to our ‘invincibles’, in many ways it really ended up contributing to the speed of our downfall. We seemed to forget that being able to cope with losing is a massive part of the game and when we did finally lose (albeit completely cheated and robbed that 50th game at man ure) we completely collapsed and were unable to respond. A major mental weakness was exposed in Wenger and a lot of that team that day and we have been a virtual pushover, a team of losers and pansies ever since. Like some of you guys have mentioned, the ‘Walcott years’ sums up the wasted, last decade plus for me

  58. Bard

    Jan 14, 2020, 12:29 #116180

    How I've missed Simon Rose's contributions along with Graham 'circular' Perry. What is the point of this article, completely random ? Who the f*** cares about Liverpool. I dont believe they will go unbeaten but so what if they do. We need to be focusing on the s*** show that is Arsenal. I would love to know what MA really thinks about the mob he has to work with. 2 weeks of the transfer window left and not even a loan deal in sight.

  59. TonyEvans

    Jan 14, 2020, 12:26 #116179

    I wish I could share Big Andy's confidence! It's looking ominous and I would hate to see Arsenal's unbeaten league season emulated and bettered. As Ron says we would never hear the last of it, and Arsenal's unbeaten season would be forgotten about.

  60. itsRonagain2

    Jan 14, 2020, 09:48 #116178

    i think that expression ' the Walcott Years' sums up the period of Wengers 'Emirates Experience ' perfectly, except for one facet of the clubs make up. He encapsulates everything we became after the stadium shift. Fair weather, weak, passionless, lightweight, flattering to deceive, no physicality, cowardly, injury prone and delusional. Walcott was never arrogant or snobbish though in my view (perhaps he privately knew his massive limitations). AFC became drunk on its own arrogance and so dismissive of all other opponents and their coaches, it was embarrassing. Many of the clubs fans bought into it and believed it was justified too. Wengers Alsace rooted hubris,sneer and snobbery tendency certainly beguiled the club and its fans. Its still there to a large extent and will take quite a few years to exorcise it.

  61. itsRonagain2

    Jan 14, 2020, 09:37 #116177

    Sorry - meant 'without an element' etc etc

  62. itsRonagain2

    Jan 14, 2020, 09:36 #116176

    Hi Big Andy - i certainly hope they dont get to 49 but matey, all teams having long runs need dollops of luck to keep it going. We certainly had it 15 years ago and before us Forest did in the late 70s and Leeds did in the early 70s too. Its impossible to stay unbeaten in my view for more than 5 or 6 games with an element of luck reaching in to sustain it. The worse thank about Liverpool doing it and winning the title is that we ll still be hearing about in 10 years time even if they dont win another title in that period. The Liverpool bias to TV sport (all stations) is stomach churning/vomit inducing isnt it.

  63. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jan 14, 2020, 09:02 #116175

    Liverpool's and Man City's dominance for the past seasons is in direct contrast to our decline, we should and could have been Liverpool today but too many people supported the Arsenal set up. The soft furnishings, the calm voice telling everyone things will be fine. How we cheered our new "Henry's" how we chuckled at a Carlos Vela chip over the keeper and the chairman stated that if our glorious leader did n't have a plan neither did the club. This nonsense continued unabated and was supported by many bloggers and sports writers "careful what you wish for" they wrote. Liverpool can and will put us to the sword and the irony is that one of the key supporters of the "Walcott years" is the writer of this piece.

  64. Big Andy

    Jan 14, 2020, 08:52 #116174

    Liverpool will lose at least one PL game this season. After the title is sewn up the pressure will be off and they’ll probably get beaten by a team fighting relegation. And if they are still in the CL come April Klopp will have to rest players on the Saturday. And Liverpool have ridden their luck in a few PL matches: sooner or later it will run out.