Loss of Leadership

Arsene Wenger has lost the dressing room



Loss of Leadership


I have procrastinated over how to start this article. Following another desperately poor performance at ManUre, I was tempted to let forth all the venom and frustration that have been building in me for what seems like forever (seven years at least).

However, it is not as simple as that.

I am confused and desperately torn between the divided loyalties of our great supporters. I read every article on onlinegooner and the comments that others write. Some are good, some less so, but all are written from the heart, as well as the head. The last few years, in particular, have seen an increasing negativity towards the team and Wenger. The financial side of the game has become as prominent as the football itself, and the conundrum is whether Wenger has achieved good results with the money at his disposal, or actually mismanaged the whole project. This drives so much of the negativity.

There appears to be an overwhelming majority of contributors who want Wenger out, with the occasional more positive responses by people like Mandy D or Chris. For the record, I think that Mandy's comments are balanced and well thought through. Some of these comments are met with vitriol, which I believe is unfair and unnecessary. Is this negativity reflected in the wider supporter base? You cannot help be influenced by the thoughts of others, but I am trying to form my own opinion on the demise of our football club.

I do not want to dismiss the financial implications or indeed the acrimonious issues at board level. Far from it. My only comment on board issues is that PHW must resign following his disgraceful performance at the recent AGM. I read a full transcript of this meeting and I am struggling to remember an individual at his level who behaved in such a condescending, patronising and abrupt manner. I'm sure that he has done much for Arsenal over the years, but his current attitude towards the fans is totally unacceptable. But I want to focus on the management and leadership of our team.

Since the Norwich game, it is very clear to me that Wenger has 'lost the dressing room'. As a manager and leader of people for most of my career to date, I know that once this happens, it is over. You can regain it... with another team and a fresh start, but not with the current group. I have watched as Podolski, Cazorla, Tommy V and even Arteta, to some extent, have lost drive, motivation and passion to win. These are very good players and they are struggling because of poor tactics, poor motivation and an unwillingness to adapt to a game as it progresses.

These issues lie solely at the feet of one man, Arsène Wenger. This lack of leadership has been apparent to me for some while. The capitulation to Man Utd in the champions league semi at home, the Carling Cup final against Birmingham... the list is fairly long.

I do not buy into the argument that he has bought poorly in recent years. Nasri, Fabregas, Podolski, Cazorla, TV, Koscielny, Sagna, the Ox, Arteta, Jenkinson, Giroud... are good players. There are some mistakes in there... Chamakh, Santos. I do not include Ramsey... yet. He is played out of position and would play much better in a 4-4-2. The jury is still out on Gervinho.

Wenger seems unable to adapt his tactics, employ players in positions to get the best from them and seems steadfastly stubborn in his approach to the formation. Why will he not consider playing 4-4-2? Giroud and Walcott as a partnership have great potential, for example. Of course, he knows more than me, but why will he not at least try some different formations? These issues have little to do with money, or intervention at board level.

I am desperately sad to come to this conclusion. Wenger has provided some of the best football I have witnessed since supporting Arsenal since the early 70s. My father (god rest his soul) bought me my first season ticket in 1979. My dad was a Gooner, my brother is a Gooner and my Mum just suffered! Having watched the tedium of 1980 to 85, I am used to suffering, but it never felt that bad. I feel worse now for some reason. Maybe it is because expectations are so much higher, thanks to Wenger's success from 1998 to 2004. Sometimes I feel like a spoilt child, just because we are not winning.

Some argue that the only way to drive change is to boycott games. I can't do this. Arsenal are in my blood. I have a ticket for Fulham and Montpellier. Why am I wasting money on this? I can't answer that question. There is no logical reason for continuing to shell out lots of money to watch a team which I believe has lost its leader. But there is always that glimmer of hope that things may turn around. Unfortunately, it is not Wenger who will provide this. Fresh leadership is needed to maximize the quality that this team has to offer.

I read an article by Peter Le Beau on onlinegooner a week or two ago. I had the good fortune to meet Peter for the first time a few months back. He is a respected figure within his industry, a real gentleman and an avid Gooner. Peter regularly contributes to The Gooner and his articles are balanced and generally provide some positive outcome. His last article struck me cold. I think for the first time I felt that he could see no positive immediate future for Arsenal, with the analogy of 'groundhog day'.

I hope he is wrong, but my heart tells me he is not.


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49
comments

  1. Chris

    Nov 15, 2012, 11:55 #28240

    @Green Hut - yes we probably would. I think so a large extent Wenger / the board sh*t themselves when the global economy went into meltdown at the same time as there were rivals with effectively infinite spending power. Thinking long term (which no FAN ever wants to do....) they decided to tighten the belts, accept underachievement for what has become several years, and wait for market conditions to improve. Probably makes sense if you look at it in a detached way although I can empathise with those who are angry about it. To return to my oft-repeated theme, within those constraints, Wenger is doing well. You might not like a lot of the details of how it has been achieved but he has achieved more than he should have by rights.

  2. Ken Dodd

    Nov 15, 2012, 9:05 #28228

    By jove,by jove what a beautiful day it would be for Wenger to belt out the classic ''I am the one and only...Nobody I'd rather be....'' in the centre circle before Saturday's north London derby.Might calm the jitters of the returning Chesney and inspire the Gunners to 'Nik' all three points!

  3. Green Hut

    Nov 14, 2012, 20:28 #28199

    Chris- I was responding to the comments you made to Arsene Is A Fraudster, but surely the whole point is that we NEVER challenge for the title or champions league come May, so top players are NEVER likely to stay. Incredibly, I agreed with every word of your response to GG89. It's the missed opportunities of the January transfer windows of 2008, 2010 and 2011 that rankle with me most about the last 8 years. 3 glorious opportunities thrown away, although I'm sure we'd disagree about the reasons for the false economies.

  4. Joe S.

    Nov 14, 2012, 19:56 #28196

    OK Canada Goona, let's keep Wegner untl he's carried out in a wooden box and see where the club will be under his (non) leadership in three, seven or ten years time.A rocky transition period can apply to any club even Manure and Barcellona.

  5. Mandy Dodd

    Nov 14, 2012, 18:39 #28189

    Firstly, thanks for the kind words! As for losing the dressing room, really hope this is not the case. Things are certainly not going well at the moment, but hopefully, this is just down to factors such as injuries, fatigue, players adjusting to a new team.....and assistant manager......as well as a relatively long time in transition. We have key players coming back, I expect Gibbs and ches to help ease some of the jitters that appear to spread through the team at times. Jack can only help as well, since losing diaby we have really missed what those sort of players can bring. We also have an obvious need to strengthen in jan, unfortunately, it will not be Llorente or cavani, we will not pay the wages those players would command even if we could pay the fee. There are still some positives, giroud starting to look better, and at least we are scoring again. If wenger had lost the dressing room, I believe he would step aside. Unfortunately, with this board, our next manager will not be pep, or even moyes, no top manager would risk reputations on a team with our wage cap and an owner who clearly wil not invest a penny in the team, this job is one of the hardest in this league. we would not be an attractive proposition to many, despite the fact we have some very good players. bould would not touch it, if wenger left, can see them giving Banfield a go, and that scares me!

  6. Chris

    Nov 14, 2012, 15:41 #28157

    @Green Hot - not sure what point you're making or which comment you are responding to, but do you really think Cesc, Nasri and RVP would have stayed because we won the Carling or even FA Cup? I don't... I DO think they might have stayed if we had won the League and were challenging for it and the CL though. I'm not sure that I would have enjoyed the Birmingham game, had we won, more than e.g. 3-0 nearly 4-0 versus Milan or beating Barca at home.

  7. Mike

    Nov 14, 2012, 13:11 #28149

    Agree with the loss of leadership but think it is at another level - we need a good captain who can lead the team. We have had one makeshift captain a season over the last number of years - Cesc, RVP, and TV who have been put there because of experience not leadership - all the good teams have an established captain who is accepted by all the players

  8. loyal since 1980

    Nov 14, 2012, 12:55 #28148

    My twp pence worth is this. We need a fresh and new start, remember there was an Arsenal before AW. However, it is no good AW leaving with the same board in charge. The board need to go as well, but we know that will never happen. When I say board in include AW in this, they are all the same. Why would someone in their right mind, sell their interest in the club, when they can sit back and make huge amount of profit whilst not putting a penny into the club. The players we sign are the back of season tickets and also the top quality players we have sold over the years for vast profit. These players have not been bought from personal kronke money. Now lets imagine, AW resigns. The board will appoint someone who will comply with the club’s policy of FFP, so you are not looking at a top quality manager, you are looking at someone who is just going to be a yes man for the board. The board say money is available to the manager, they know very well, he will not spend on world class players and in today’s market, 40 Million + buys worlds class, unless you are Man Utd and pick up one of the best strkers in Europe for a mere £25 million! Now imagine, Usmonov takes over, and he hands AW 100 million to spend on players, do you really think he will spend on top quality? Of course he won’t, lets imagine Usmonov ‘tells’ AW to spend on top quality, AW will just resign, because he does not operate like that. My conclusion is that for change we need a new board (Usmanov) and a new manager, because at the moment we are going nowhere fast!

  9. Rocky RIP

    Nov 14, 2012, 12:05 #28147

    I'm with Terry on this. Spot on. People who think the BSM are simply about sacking Wenger couldn't be more wrong. Yes, plenty don't want him any more, but that isn't what they are about. Let's imagine Wenger goes and is replaced next Summer. Will the stuff people are complaining about literally disappear? - NO. We'll still have an indifferent owner and a board intent on making a maximum profit by rinsing loyal fans and pushing this loyalty to breaking point. Will they suddenly represent the fans again because Wenger has gone? As if. I'm not sure I trust any of them to appoint the right man in the way Dein used to anyway. Some of them aren't football men, let alone Arsenal men.

  10. Green Hut

    Nov 14, 2012, 11:23 #28146

    Chris- Coming from someone who believes 'it's not all about trophies' and 'would rather finish fourth than win the FA Cup', I'm not surprised to see you still banging on about our pointless Champions League qualification every year. Bet Birmingham and tottenham enjoyed their recent trophy-winning days out at Wembley more though, especially as they spent less money than Arsenal achieving it.

  11. SilverGooner

    Nov 14, 2012, 10:47 #28145

    Good article Richard. There are currently just so many issues with the club that it all seems so overwhelmingly depressing. One of the blindingly obvious faults Wenger has is how come he persists with the same methods season after season when they are clearly not working? This is just plain common sense...if something isn't working you go about things a different way. There is no shame in that. THat's what managers get paid for. But hey, I was forgetting that Wenger is stubborn and arrogant!

  12. Gare Kekeke

    Nov 14, 2012, 9:15 #28141

    I don’t think Wenger has lost the dressing room. I don’t think he ever will. With certain individuals maybe, but the entire squad, no. As mentioned above, it’s not like our players are deliberately losing games and not playing for Wenger like the poisonous Chelsea cartel of Terry, Lampard, Drogba et al when they have a manager they don’t like because he won’t play a direct, physical game which suits them more than a tika-taka game. Going back to Wenger, at this moment in time he’s clearly not the manager we used to be. Can he be the Wenger of 1996-2006 again? Possibly. But to do so he’ll have to swallow his pride, accept that some of his methods since 2006 have backfired, adapt and evolve with the times just like his once nemesis at Old Trafford has. But his stubborn attitude means that won’t be happening anytime soon, perhaps never, which is such a shame. But the board are to blame as well. Giving Wenger too much power since the removal of Dein in 2007. I’m no Dein fan by any stretch of the imagination but he would have been a great help to Wenger in recent years. MSS is just a number cruncher. How sad that he was handpicked by Wenger. The board have to accept (not that they ever will) that The Arsenal belongs to the fans and that we don’t just have “an interest in their affairs”. We as fans have more passion for The Arsenal than they do. Many of us invest financially (too much I say) on the club. I do half of the league away games every season to support the team even if I have lost faith in Wenger since 2008. It was revealed from the brilliant Charles Sale from the Daily Mail a few months ago they very rarely go to away games. If they support Wenger as much as they claim, they should attend all away games, not the ones that suits them. Pathetic. And to think, there are some Gooners who think the likes of PHW & MSS are great for the club. Some of these people should do well to remember that MSS is on £2m pa and personally handed himself a £600k for ‘a good year’. And they say we have no money for transfers. No individual is bigger than the club or any football club. That includes Wenger. When he leaves, The Arsenal will carry on with his brilliant legacy of the stadium and the training ground in place. When he does eventually leave, it must be done with dignity and not being hounded out. He doesn’t deserve that. Up The Arsenal!

  13. Chris

    Nov 14, 2012, 8:34 #28140

    @GG89 - personally I think the opportunity was missed around 4 years - i.e. when Eduardo's leg break cost us the title. Even moderate investment then would have provided the players we needed to win trophies, keep the best players who have all now lost and ensure that commerncial renewals would be at the top of the market. Not to do so was false economy in my view. At the moment, I can see some sense in waiting for market conditions to change because we'd have to throw so much money at the team to topple the likes of Chelsea, Man City and even Man Utd (now that we have sold them our final crown jewel...) that we may not have enough!

  14. Any Old Iron

    Nov 14, 2012, 8:34 #28139

    The Tots are coming for Arsene. Wenger's rearguard is creaking. His BS of recent stating 'we have the best defensive record after playing the toughest away games is a load of b***o**s! He has 4 keepers now-Chesney(not injured, demoted) Wenger spin-Mannone-FlapihanDski-is he still there? A recent Macedonian purchase-presumably worth a punt as scouts suggest promise. Just like the 3 above. How much does that little lot amount to. Still no credible stopper worthy of the name I grant you. Promise, yes. Understudies yes. 1st choice? You all have your answer. What a scandal that the first position in a football team has not been addressed FOR MANY YEARS. Look at SAF getting the young Spaniard. Paying the MONEY, and having the guts to go with his convictions. Instead of squirming Wenger hoping one of his proteges(4 NOW) comes good. Might I add Almunia for 5/6 seasons was a freebie, and for a supposedly top team way below the mark. Someone next to me just reminded me we haven't been a top team in a while. He's my mate, and a Tot. Blame the sellers of shares to Kroenke. Wenger liked the economy based strategy, and not the Dein/Usmanov plan. WENGER, KROENKE, BOARD OUT, OK people!

  15. Badbuy

    Nov 14, 2012, 0:28 #28138

    There were those who use to go on about how astute Wenger was in the transfer market and the huge profits in selling players like RVP, Cesc and Viera (1,100% profit on these 3 alone!). However counting up all the money wasted money on such dross over the years and high wages, I say his transfer deals have been rather poor! Don't think we'll sell our best again at the end of this season thou!...................................................."Nothing to sell"

  16. GG89

    Nov 13, 2012, 23:58 #28136

    I can't see he's lost the dressing room yet. I can't tell by the faces of the players mentioned that this is the case. If I think that not winning a trophy for so long then it could explain the author's reference to player's expressions. While we've been waiting for FFP, paying off the Emirates, looking at other team's sugar daddies etc, etc the club have turned into also rans, capitulating in big games because we have an excuse not to win... the excuse "we're waiting for the right market conditions to start a period of dominace." Effing crazy, Wenger, Stan out!

  17. Chrisy boy

    Nov 13, 2012, 23:19 #28135

    I have to agree with most of you that time is up for Wenger, my problem is that who at the club has the contacts or football knowledge to employ the correct manager.david moyes has done a good job but has won nothing, we need not only a manager that has won major honours, but players in our squad that have also won titles etc. they both come at a price which we all know the yank won't buy in to. We are in trouble, just not sure what the answer is anymore

  18. William

    Nov 13, 2012, 23:14 #28134

    I always ask the question would our team today be able to go out and sweat blood,fight for the whole 90 mins to beat a vastly superior team like the team that included Selly and Morrow in midfield did in Copenhagen in 1994.An Arsenal team that played for the shirt.Down to the manager

  19. CanadaGooner

    Nov 13, 2012, 23:12 #28133

    @Wenger Out - mate, I believe every good thing do need to come to an end, and infact for arsenal, it came to an end in 2005. Do not kid yourself though; with the player selling policy and salary cap + the fact that we now cannot attract the best players as we havent won anything in 7 years, getting rid of Wenger is NOT a fix-it-all solution and we will probably fare much worse in the first few years after his departure. And if you think Hill-Wood or Gazidis will get us a credible replacement or make things better, then you really are kidding yourself. I dont see an end in sight for our woes.

  20. Wenger Out

    Nov 13, 2012, 22:10 #28132

    @CanadaGooner, who is it that filled the dressing room with "a bunch of morons"? Simple answer, Wenger. He is the problem. The Club is dying on its feet with this deluded, pig headed, tactically inept man in charge. He has lost the dressing room and I am delighted to see that he is now losing more and more of the fans. You may not know what the answer is but many do. Get Wenger out!

  21. Gloucester Gooner

    Nov 13, 2012, 21:04 #28131

    Surely it is Wenger not the board that picks the players for each match and then sets the team out to play the same way week in week out (year in year out)with out change in formation,tactics or substitutions. Every other team has come to acknowledge this as a fact and will drill their side in how to beat us. Wenger is to blame for this and for playing players out of position, buying too many players of the same style and stature and always it seems overlooking defensive players and the opposition strengths (or weaknesses). Most seem to have forgotten the name of the competition that Wenger and the board seem to covet so much – ‘The Champions League’! Arsenal will never be in the Champions League as champions whilst serving up the current dross! Remember it wasn’t that long ago when only the Champions could play in the competition before it was renamed and rebranded! Lastly who can forget the reason for moving from Highbury to the Emirates – to attract the best players from across Europe and compete at the highest level. All I see is Arsenal producing and then selling our best players to our rivals.

  22. RichardS

    Nov 13, 2012, 20:55 #28130

    Thanks to all, for your comments. I agree that I cannot be certain that he has 'lost the team'. 'Arsene KNEW Best'.....you are right, I have no inside knowledge of player's views. It is just my opinion. I would point, in particular to the following as some evidence; the first 15/20 mins of nearly every match this season has started without belief, lacking in confidence and strangely subdued, suggesting lack of motivation or leadership; the interaction between players and the manager is virtually non-existent; the camaraderie between the players that was evident early in the season has evaporated; the lack of communication between manager and assistant and also the resulting lack of passion or direction from the touch line; continuous questionning by players of recent high profile sales (RVP etc)....we do seem to get more players speaking out than other clubs, which suggests some disharmony. The lack of tactics, passion and at times, commitment, seems reflective of disenchantment. I desperately hope that I am wrong. Arsene has done so much for our club and for us, as supporters, over the years. I just feel that a fresh approach is required, with new leadership, energy and passion.

  23. Mark Rice

    Nov 13, 2012, 19:27 #28128

    Your right it wasn't bad in the bad days of the 80's but in those days it was £3.50 to stand on the north bank and buy a bag of penuts (rrrrroasted peanuts) watch journey men players who were paid a decent wage but were often spotted on the tube or a local pub after the match; whilst Chelski and Manoily City were were they we're truly belonged in the 3rd divison. I miss those days I really do :0(

  24. Arsene KNEW best

    Nov 13, 2012, 18:22 #28126

    You should have continued to procrastinate Richard. This article is pure speculation and is therefore little more than a space filler. You have as much idea as I do about whether Wenger has "lost the dressing room" (a lazy tabloid cliche) or not (unless you have an inside track on what our group of highly-paid players think). The chief problem is that Wenger continues to have the board's backing which means that things aren't going to change as quickly as most of us would like. Voting with our feet and boycotting the tat that they peddle in the shops is about the best hope we have as supporters to effect change.

  25. Terry

    Nov 13, 2012, 18:13 #28125

    Wenger and Dein worked brilliantly together. It's no coincidence that it's all gone downhill since Dein left. Wenger needs a strong personality beside him, not a 'Yes-man' - although he resists having his ideas challenged. More important than the woes of our manager are the problems we have with the money-grabbing board. Kroenke sees us as a 'cash cow' and Hill-Wood is living in the past. Dein used to attend most Arsenal matches, including many reserve and youth team games. How many Arsenal matches does Kroenke watch each season? I am convinced the board no longer represents the true Arsenal fan. The members of the board seem to be in it to enhance their bank balance, whereas us fans are in it to see our team challenge for silverware. So, whether Wenger stays for a while longer is not the key issue.mthe key issue is how do we wrest Arsenal back into the control of the fans. Let me tell the Arsenal board a simple fact: without us Arsenal fans you have no Arsenal, just an empty 60,000 seat stadium. Give us our Arsenal back . The only other option is to start again like AFC Wimbledon have. AFC stands for 'A Fans Club'. Give us ( the fans) our Arsenal back - and take your fingers out of the till.

  26. Fozzy's mate

    Nov 13, 2012, 18:02 #28124

    We have arrived where we are due a mixture of arrogance and complacency. Wenger is a part of that but I first saw the shoots of where we are today in 2006/7. In 2005/6 we scraped into fourth but did reach the champions league final. But thereafter the club accepted 4th place as a decent result after finishing in the op 2 every year for many years. The old board saw Wenger as the ultimate cash cow and decided to make him all powerful when Dein was shoved aside. That decision took away the checks and balances which the supine Hillwood and co were delighted with as the gradual but steady on pitch decline was matched by an increasing bank balance forcing the share price up allowing them to sell for a kings ransom. The DDT and MSS are quite happy with OGL as he fills their coffers selling his best players each season. There has never really been any tactics except for pass, pass, pass but now the players are not good enough to win regularly. The arrogant and stubborn OGL refuses to change so the slow slipping back continues. A change of manager may assist if someone who is used to winning trophies came in and refused to accept the boards dough trousering stance and demanded use of the eurozone bail out fund. Whilst doubting that the 2 US businessmen would appoint such a fellow, I do feel a change is now needed to shake the ever growing apathy and lethergy at the caviar bowl.

  27. billthered

    Nov 13, 2012, 17:06 #28121

    Years ago in the late seventies we had a good team not great but good enough to challenge on all fronts especially the cups,but we had three outstanding players four very good ones and one in particular crap player but we got away with it.Fast forward to the late nineties and early noughties and look at the team, we had about six great players and the rest either very good or mediocre.Which brings us to the present where at a pinch apart from Jack who is still too young to carry the team on his own who else is there?.We are now surrounded by average and poor players whilst seeing all our best players plying their trade elsewhere.We have to blame someone with regard to the raping of our team.I have kept my head in the sand for long enough and altough it pains me to say it so long AW thanks for the ride but its time we had someone to stand up to our owner and tell him this is a FOOTBALL CLUB so lets run it like one.

  28. John Abrehart

    Nov 13, 2012, 16:50 #28120

    I really feel for the man and very much appreciate what he has done for the club. But things have moved on, he is in his own time warp and cannot leave it. The game is up I'm afraid and you can see it in his eyes. I hope that the end comes with dignity, he deserves that at least.

  29. Mad Max

    Nov 13, 2012, 16:36 #28119

    i think wenger lost the dressing room a long time ago,i think his early successes were down to having the great back four,a world class keeper and players with arsenal in their veins already at the club.france were the best team in the world at the time and he was able to hand pick their best players france are now in declne so are our beloved arsenal. there are many tactically better coaches out there than wenger.the man has become a shadow of his former self,but unless we direct our protest at him and not just the board nothings gonna change pretty soon.we had many triumphs before he came and will again after he,s gone.STAND UP FOR THE ARSENAL.

  30. Chris

    Nov 13, 2012, 16:28 #28118

    @Arsene is a Fraudster - it wasn't me who posted that but just a couple of minor points: 1)Our wage bill 2011-12 was 5th highest in the PL. 2) We came 3rd in 2012 and 4th in 2011 - both are higher places than the wages suggest. 3) If you add in transfer fees, we are (over the past 5 years) 5th highest spenders in the PL. All these points seem to support the poster who you quote. Sorry if you and everyone else is bored of all this financial stuff, but let's be fair and stick to the truth, eh?

  31. JOhn

    Nov 13, 2012, 15:57 #28116

    Totally agree, I told my friend he'd lost the dressing room. Wenger's comment about 4th place is a trophy just killed everything, Especially after Cazorla said he wants to win trophies at Arsenal. This slump reminds me of how spurs suddenly lost form last season.

  32. maguiresbridge gooner

    Nov 13, 2012, 15:39 #28115

    Has wenger lost the dressing room ? you would think so if our displays are anything to go by like you say with players losing the drive,passion,confidence,and it's only the start of the season. Why is that ? who's there to motivate them ? Nobody even bouldy looks lost.Are they fed up with the same old tactics/lack off the same old tippy tappy etc,lack of ambition or are they just not capable are they just going through the motions because they haven't the balls to stand up and say something ? Richard it's obvious somethings been lost fans have realised it for quite a while and more and more are beginning to. One things for sure dressing rooms have been lost for a hell of a lot less than whats happening at the minute.We've all been waiting for a long time now for that glimmer of hope the start of the current season maybe more than most but it's now gone. It will probably come back if we stuff the spuds on Saturday but how long for ? not to long i would imagine.

  33. Bard

    Nov 13, 2012, 14:51 #28113

    I have had the same thought but wonder whether it is a little more complex than just ' losing the dressinng room'. What is evident is that Arsenal play like schoolboys most of the time. They are tactically moribund. They have one way of playing and stick with it regardless or the state of the game or the quality of the opposition. To my mind it is this that handicaps the side. Other sides have worked us out. We might score a few but we will always give the opposition a few opportunities however bad they are. Wenger doesn't address issues on the pitch preferring to believe that his philosphy will prevail. This is delusional rubbish. The point of matches is to win them, its not an arena for a soccer morality play. These issues( plus rubbish keepers) leaves the side vulnerable and I suspect the players know what the problems are but how can you revert to plan B when there isn't one. You make a good point that continually playing players out of position ( the most obvious is paying 16m for Arshavin and then paly him wide left ) is plain stupid and guaranteed to cause further problems. If its blindingly obvious to me and most of the contributors on this site then I am sure it is to the players.

  34. Der Projekt ist Kaput

    Nov 13, 2012, 13:06 #28110

    Wenger and the Board have not only lost their way - they have also turned a once great, classy, FANS club into an anonymous corporate monster where everything has a price - including our loyalty. I urge everyone to protest at what's become of OUR club. We want our Arsenal back!

  35. Nilesh Bhagat

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:35 #28109

    Good post and you do well to leave aside the more hysterical and conspiratorial arguments about the board. However the phrase 'losing the dressing room' is a dangerous one as we don't know what is happening in the dressing room and maybe Podolski et al may not have lost motivation so much as lost confidence. Ultimately though I think you may be right, there have just been too many poor footballing decisions in the last few seasons and the team appears to be going nowhere and that lies squarely on Wenger. Even in the dog days of the George Graham era I wanted him to stay because I remembered the good times and thought he could bring them back but I was wrong. It was correct to move on then and I think it would be correct to move on now. I just hope that this can be done without all the acrimony and vitriol that is sadly so common on this site. I think some people will be ashamed of the way they have acted toward Wenger once he is no longer in charge and they will remember that he is the best manager that we have had in the post war era.

  36. Dan h

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:32 #28108

    All things come to an end eventually no one should be bigger than the club & one man has had far too much power for my liking.Everyone has their opinion mine more than anything is it has gone so stale new blood is needed in the boardroom & the touchline.Players have left some for more money but top players don't play for 4th every season they want to win medals.OGL looks under increasing pressure he has had more than enough time to turn it around it had imo run it's course two-three seasons ago.The headline he has lost the dressing room from what i know & you know my opinions on the manager at the moment NO he hasn't.Questions are being asked players are never happy either losing or not being picked the defensive organisation has been an area players HAVE strongly talked about.What he has in the senior players like Arteta,Mertersacker are sensible solid pro's who have seen it before it may not last!What OGL hasn't got is the game changing players we have had during his tenure to win us games we do have some very good players but our squad is weak players regardless of form under no pressure!Just my own view but if your boss overpaid what you knew you were probably worth would you be a touch more loyal & tow the company line?Honestly thought so.....

  37. Big Andy

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:27 #28107

    Excellent article. I, too, have been a Gooner since the late seventies and have never quite known a period like this. Even when we were absolute garbage under Neil and Howe there wasn't this air of despondency as there is now. Wenger is finished. His recent potty decisions (playing Santos, refusal to change formation, not buying a decent goalkeeper or second striker) show that he has lost it. Like you say, I think that the senior players have lost respect for him and are no longer playing for him. That's why we have seen so many lacklustre performances recently.

  38. CanadaGooner

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:23 #28106

    Mate, Wenger hasnt lost the dressing room; there's simply nobody in the dressing room: lights are out, we have a bunch of morons for players. With 'project youth' we played good football but couldnt win the clinchers; with 'project hybrid' and the current 'project sell our best players to our competitors' we simply dont have a capable crop of players and the mistakes continue to pile up. Something needs to be done, not sure what though.

  39. Tony Evans

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:21 #28105

    Richard - You have clearly come to the point where, like me, your faith in Wenger has reached an all time low. All the reasons you list for this are spot on and shared by many I am sure. Such is my confiction that Wenger has lost the dressing room, not to mention the plot, that I actively want Arsenal to fail now in order to rid the club of our now clueless / directionless manager. I know this sounds dreadful for any supporter to admit, never mind one that goes back to 1970, but for the long term health of the club I love Wenger has to go and if this is what it takes then so be it. I simply do not know what else will shift him.

  40. Peter Wain

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:17 #28104

    I struggle to understand how any one can say that the jury is still out on Gervinho. Also I question whether the Podborski Cazorla Arteta and Koscielny are top quality buys. The plain fact is that in the last three years Wenger has bought some truly awful players and given them contracts which they cannot get anywhere else so they saty and take up a place in the squad. However they are so bad that they cannot be played. It is not only the managers fault but also that poor excuse for an apologist Gazidis, the take of Kroenke dollars Hillwood and Kroenke him selve. They should all go. If you want to be competitive at the highest level you have to spend a lot more money and invest better than we have done. The pitful amounts watsed on players not capable of playing in the PL is worst than not buying at all. No doubt the Scum will come and win on Staurday the question is by ho many and what the excuses will be.

  41. Rocky RIP

    Nov 13, 2012, 12:02 #28103

    Full of venom for '7 years atleast'? So you were full of venom when we made the Champions League final in 2006? To have 'lost the dressing room' implies nobody wants to play for the manager any longer eg. Chelsea who clearly and deliberately under-performed for AVB in order for him to be sacked. It worked. We are clearly under-performing but I don't think players aren't trying because they've fallen out with AW. Arteta had a couple of stinking moments v Fulham, but I didn't get the impression he wasn't trying to win the match for his manager. To say Wenger has lost the dressing room so unequivocally needs facts to back it up, otherwise ask it as a question. Also, PLEASE can we stop the Groundhog day analogy like it's an original one? It's nearly as old as the film. All lazy soundbites overheard on the radio.

  42. mark from aylesbury

    Nov 13, 2012, 11:48 #28101

    Very well articulated and agree Mandy's comments are well balanced and her alter ego Ken Dodd certainly adds to the experience. Has he lost the dressing room? Tough call but what I do know is that we seem to need a crisis / mini panic to get halfway decent performances. I do believe that Wenger is being out fought and out thought. Ive said it before but i draw parallels with Cloughs later years minus the booze of course. I generally feel for the good of both parties this should be his final season. With the war chest in place for the new man in charge.

  43. Dave

    Nov 13, 2012, 11:47 #28100

    Boycott games? No-one will ever do this. But it might get to the point where fans stop renewing season tickets and aren't replaced. Big empty stadium, team finishing mid table - a slow drift towards Liverpool's status. It doesn't matter who replaces AW; without the real money Arsenal can't compete. The sugar-daddy option may leave a sour taste, but how many Arsenal fans would exchange our last 7 years for Chelsea's last 7 years? Dos vedanya.

  44. Angry & Frustrated

    Nov 13, 2012, 11:13 #28098

    Loss of leadership by a dictator, says it all really!!

  45. Ron

    Nov 13, 2012, 11:09 #28097

    Im unsure whether hes actually 'lost' the dressing room'. I feel its perhaps more the case that hes lost his own hunger and drive. Hes seemed very resigned for a year or two in his body language. Hes sort of going through the motions and i dont believe he loves his job anymore. Its been tough for him im sure, but if im right he should go and seek a new challenge for his own good and peace of mind. Hes been a great boss, but his mojo has gone, im sure.He seems utterly tired of the media (can understand that). His comment about Berbatov at the week end to the MOTD cameras was so sloppy and tired though, it was quite sad. Very revealing though all the same.

  46. Tim

    Nov 13, 2012, 10:54 #28096

    I am intrigued by your view that Arsenal have tactics but dont change them. I very much fear that the team have no tactics, game plan or anything like that. Pass the ball and move is the only approach. Everything is left up to the players on the day. With top players you can get away with that (2002-2005) and when it works it makes Arsenal very difficult to play against, because they are unpredictable. But the current players are not good enough to achieve that, though many of them are good players. If only there were some tactics or a game plan, these players would know what they are seeking to achieve and are good enough to achieve it, but the impression given is that no one knows what to do or what the other players are going to do, except pass the ball and move. Sadly we are no longer very good at that - from Barcelona lite to Arsenal lite in 2 seasons. What next?

  47. Croker

    Nov 13, 2012, 10:18 #28094

    Feeling dazed and confused about the direction The Arsenal is taking about sums it all up. I get that same sick feeling listening to Wenger as I repeatedly do watching other managers drown before my eyes as their team's results nosedive. The tipping point at those clubs is when their manager has lost the dressing room and a sacking swiftly ensues. Having witnessed a never ending conveyor belt of useless keepers and shambolic defending for several seasons in a row now, I'm beginning to conclude Wenger has run out of magic and the players are not responding to him. That's the "confused" part - how can it be so bad before our very eyes and nothing gets put right? The "dazed" part is the attitude of the club's owner to the fans and matters on the pitch. How can he not get It? Yeh, I know trousering $millions - "kerchinnggg".

  48. Arsene is a Fraudster

    Nov 13, 2012, 10:07 #28093

    Having re-read the excellent Groundhog Day article, I came across one of the poster's you mentioned in this article trotting out the following: "if you are right and wengers best years are behind him, along with the restrictions, trials and tribulations he has had inflicted on him, we would not have remained in the top four for all these years". Interesting. Only because these same posters always like to tell us that we finish 4th only because of our wage bill being the 4th highest. Now it seems the rhetoric they spout is incorrect, that it is in fact all because of their deity. Hilarious.

  49. TC

    Nov 13, 2012, 9:53 #28092

    I have come to the same conclusion Richard because as an old friend and experienced football man said to me once there always gets a point where the players have heard it all before and it has no meaning anymore. Also, the team have had the same issues over recent years even though the personnel have changed quite a bit. So the only common denominator is AW himself. I for one no longer trust AW's assessment of a player and if there is some chance that he may walk away then I do so hope that no further monies are spent by him. I agree he has bought some terrific players but he has bought a lot of duds. In my mind he has never committed to Project Youth - this relies in my opinion to getting rid of 3-6 players every year of the squad who have never made a difference, who reach an age like 20 or 21, or are simply purchases that have not worked out. I know there are issues with contracts but that is what these highly paid management figures are supposed to deal with - getting the very best value for ARSENAL. Unless these holes are made in the squad then the next generation have nothing to strive for and therefore Project Youth can never work.