Aaron Ramsey - A Legend for a Generation

Reflections on the now departed Welshman's Arsenal status

Responsive image

2017 - FA Cup winner with two years left on his contract.

Of late, debate has surfaced regarding Aaron Ramsey’s status as an Arsenal legend. This, as we know, is due to his departure to Juventus. For a generation of fans, the ‘Emirates’ generation (of which I’m part of), Aaron Ramsey is the only player of legendary status we’ve seen ourselves. There’s more to it than just two FA Cup winning goals.

Defining a ‘legend’ is contentious. Pivotal moments, outstanding quality and loyalty are obvious or stereotypical metrics. ‘Legend’ status is greatly subjective, based on a collective fanbase’s values and nostalgia of a player, created by iconic moments. Very few gain the illusive status of being a legend, with the latter of that criteria being the most critical – creating memorable moments. Giroud, for example – scored over 100 goals, many of which were sublime, but his Arsenal career lacked a defining pivotal moment.

When discussing Ramsey as an Arsenal legend, context is crucial. He was part of the ‘British core’ phase that fizzled out and failed, the only member to leave a mark. Ramsey was constant in an Arsenal era that never pushed for a league title, a standard barometer of success at Arsenal – yet still had a degree of success. In this context, Aaron Ramsey is undoubtedly a legend of his period, in my view the singular undisputed claim to such status in the entire Emirates era. 

Let’s go back to tackling that criteria, starting with Ramsey’s qualities. As with any Wenger player, Ramsey has technical ability in abundance. Passing range and smart control allowed him to be the metronome of Arsenal’s midfield, not quite box-to-box nor a playmaker. Some happy medium that Football Manager addicts would be able to better term. Physicality is also something Ramsey possesses; his engine is formidable. His casual nature and stylish play attracted Juventus, in a slower league Ramsey will likely flourish, and who would bet against his new side winning another title - use a mansion bet bonus code 2019 if you feel like backing the Welshman to win a first league winner’s medal. 

Ramsey’s talents were best displayed in the first half of the 2013/14 season. In 23 league games Ramsey scored 10 and assisted 9, an incredible return for a central midfielder. His scintillating form lifted Arsenal to the summit of the table, combining superbly with Özil and Giroud. Ultimately, Ramsey’s injury mid-way through that season was a crucial factor in Arsenal’s title bid fading. Nevertheless, the 2013/14 season saw Ramsey truly lay out his talents, reaching his peak for Arsenal to confirm his standing as an exceptional player.  

One ability that will not be forgotten is Ramsey’s knack for scoring absolute worldies. The type to leave your jaw hanging. Goals that leave you clasping the top of your head, as you gawp at the replays. Ramsey is a master of all trades when it comes to blockbusters. See Galatasary for an outrageous 30-yard half volley. See CSKA, Fulham or Spurs for a dainty, audacious flick. See Portsmouth or Norwich for a silky solo goal. See Liverpool for a thump. Anything he’s missed?

Ramsey understands Arsenal, his passion for the club cannot be underestimated. Although the full details of his exit remain dubious, I believe given the right money he would’ve stayed. Regardless, Ramsey appreciates the pride of playing for Arsenal. Take the most recent North London Derby at Wembley, where Ramsey scored his third goal away at Spurs. This isn’t a happy coincidence. Ramsey relishes these games, his celebrations toying with Spurs fans highlight this. For over 10 years, Ramsey has worn the cannon with pride and professionalism.

Standing out at Arsenal is challenging. That’s why debate surrounds Ramsey’s legendary status. There’s a host of last-minute heroes, prolific strikers, dominating midfielders and noble leaders. Amongst those, Ramsey has a place. Two FA Cup winning goals will be the moments Ramsey will be remembered for. Ramsey was the man that put the dreaded drought to bed, buying time for Wenger. All of this occurred after a career threatening, ability stunting injury, infamously at the hands of Ryan Shawcross. Such achievements justify the label as a legend.

Crucially, as the title suggests, Ramsey is a legend for a generation. Considering the move from Highbury was back in 2006, there is now a large contingent of youthful Gooners, myself included, that only really know The Emirates and hazy elements from the backend of Highbury. For that generation Ramsey is the only legend seen in the flesh. For many in this demographic, Fabregas is the pinnacle and only rival to Ramsey’s claim, but does Fabregas qualify as an Arsenal legend? Fabregas was a better player than Ramsey is, he had superior natural talent and performed on a more consistent basis. However, Fabregas failed to win trophies after 2005 and his personal iconic moments don’t match up to Ramsey’s. Needless to mention, Fabregas moved to the Blue segment of London, having already broken hearts by setting of for Catalunya. In ten years, Ramsey will be remembered more fondly by fans than Fabregas is now.

The generation mentioned above will largely recall the 2014, 2015 and 2017 FA Cups as the first major silverware they saw Arsenal win. In two of those Ramsey clinched it. The ‘Emirates’ generation will never forget those two moments when Ramsey scored against Hull and Chelsea under the Wembley arch. Combine this with 10 years of loyal service and countless outrageous goals, and it’s hard to argue that for those of a certain age Ramsey is the only justifiable ‘legend’ they’ve seen. Essentially, that’s what makes a player lift into legendary status. Collective memory from a generation of supporters creating a longstanding legacy and future nostalgia.

Ultimately, it was Ramsey who ended a trophy drought that loomed sinisterly over Arsenal. Ramsey’s header clinched a trophy against a London rival at Wembley. Such memories only appreciate with time, only in future will Ramsey become widely accepted as a legend, with the aid of nostalgia. But to me at least, he’s already gained that status.

Twitter@clockendtomblog

___________________________________________________________________

The current issue of The Gooner (£6 UK addresses, £7.50 overseas) can be bought through our online store or if you have a PayPal account you can simply send us payment direct click here for our paypal.me link (although please remember to put the name and address for sending your issue in the message, and if you forget, then email us at thegoonerfanzine@btinternet.com to let us know those details)

2019-20 season subscriptions still available!
Having reached our target of 1000 paid up subscribers to continue printing in 2019-20, we are welcoming further subscriptions. For £30 (UK addresses) or £42 (overseas addresses) you receive six x 68 page issues through your letterbox over the course of next season.

There are four ways to pay –

  1. You can pay with a credit or debit card via our online store, click here to get to our subscriptions page. NB – Follow the PayPal process until you get the option to pay by debit or credit card (as opposed to setting up a PayPal account, although you will have to set up a Gooner Store account to capture your contact details for the issues to be sent to you). If you wish to set up a PayPal account, that’s fine, but you should not have to.
  2. Pay £30 or £42 direct via PayPalto this email address: thegoonerfanzine@btinternet.com. To make this as simple as possible, you can use our paypal.me link and remember to ensure you leave your name and address in the message. If possible, please make your payment a ‘friends and family’ / personal payment – this helps keep our costs down. Very important – If you forget to enter your name and address in the message field, please email us at thegoonerfanzine@btinternet.com to inform us of your postal address, as when paying this way, PayPal does not give us your address details unless you type them out in the message with the payment.
  3. Via online bank transfer, making a payment of £30 or £42 to – 
    Account name: The Gooner 
    Sort Code: 20-76-90 
    Account Number: 03004112
    If you are making an international payment, the IBAN and Bic / Swift codes and bank address are as follows -Swift / BIC code: BUKBGB22
    Iban: GB79 BUKB 2076 9003 0041 12
    Bank address - BARCLAYS BANK PLC Walthamstow 3 Leicestershire, LE87 2BB, England
    Use the reference 1920 followed by your surname. Very important - please follow up the payment with an email to thegoonerfanzine@btinternet.com stating your name and address, and the reference that you used for payment (e.g. 1920Smith). Otherwise, we will not be able to match the payment to you.
  4. Via post by sending a cheque for £30 or £42 (if you wish you can download a pdf form to fill in your details by clicking on this link.
    Send your cheques to -
    The Gooner
    12 Buxton Court
    Hanbury Drive
    London
    E11 1GB

Article Rating

Leave a comment

Sign-in with your Online Gooner forum login to add your comment. If you do not have a login register here.

67
comments

  1. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jul 1, 2019, 10:48 #114282

    You are so right about the Spuds - the entire reason people call them a big club was due to a few good years - sadly it was the first season I started watching Arsenal as a 10 year old - got my own back on everyone in May 71 though.

  2. itsRonagain2

    Jun 30, 2019, 16:19 #114281

    ps so far as the 60s go too, it also only seemed so bad because that nonentity shower at N17 decided to condense almost their entire history into the 3-4 years early decade, gradually tailing off towards 67/8 as we emerged from the gloom. Had that not have happeneed im sure we would lok back on the 60s in a far more favouarble light. Lets face it, Wrights players that hedevloped formed the backbone and reason as to why 1970 - Fairs Cup and the 1971 double. Poor Manager they say, but he know a player or 2 for sure. Wengo never had a rump of younger, hungry players emerge in 22 years did he.

  3. itsRonagain2

    Jun 30, 2019, 16:07 #114280

    Hi CG - The 60s were lean for us werent they, yet when you reduce it down the decade was poor from 60 to 67 really wasnt it. By 67 early 68 were actually emerging from the darker years in a way that we want to see happening now. By 67/8 we were hard to beat again. Cant compare era s and it might sound exterem but for me, the last 10 years have been harder to stomach than those 7/8 yrs in the 60s. We did at least have some exiting players then like Baker, Armstrong and Eastham Strong et al to see while the defence behaved like a sieve with extra large holes!! I accept that i was a kid then and perspectives on winning and success were different, but what i and my family never got close to losing in the bad old 60s was our pride in the club. I loved that period towards the middle/ end of my secondary school years when Raddy, George and Co were emerging. Theres been no feeling of similar excitement for so long at the moderrn Arsenal. These are subjective thoughts i know and the modern fans will differ no doubt, but they know no different do they. My main worry for new fans is that they think that this putrid gutless shambles we endure now in the new 'norm'for AFC. It sure seems to be now. Im glad i no longer go and feel good about that. I dont feel good about being in different to Arsenals results. My Dad would turn in his grave bless him, if i said the same thing to him, but if he were here still i know he would understand. We cant blame that ground move for everything i know, but for Arsenal, losing Highbury was a major bodyblow. It was more than a football ground and everybody knew it, even visitor fans. It was a ground so closely embedded in the clubs meaning and the after shock of leaving is carrying on unabated. Clubs like Liverpool have learned from this and have stopped short of abandoning their heritage and improving Anfield from within/on site so to keep their roots and feeling of being a club that belongs to their area and community. Leaving Highbury closed massive un operable iron doors on all we had stood for before i think. Was it all Wengo to blame? Not really, but he had visions of a new cosmopolitan super commercial club and didnt think twice about treading on what we stood for to achieve his misguided objective aided and abetted by the Board who did the same. The club needs cleansing from the very top right to the very bottom.

  4. CORNISH GOONER

    Jun 30, 2019, 09:24 #114279

    Ron, I have to own up that I am old enough to have seen George E play - for Newcastle!! It was a proper club then & he was by far the best player on the pitch. As is well known he was brave enough to take on the might of English football to abolish the virtual slavery of players in those days & achieve a record move to Arsenal. He was also unlucky to be at AFC during the Wright years. Alf Ramsey clearly didn't fancy him preferring to use maybe more physical, less individualistic players in the England set up - but you can't argue with the end result in 1966 can you! Bloody Ozil & all our other spoilt boys will never know how much they owe to the pioneers like George.

  5. itsRonagain2

    Jun 29, 2019, 23:12 #114278

    CG. My Dad rated Bloomfield. Before my time though. Eastham was of my early years yet I never once saw him play live. Dad and Unc loved him. The schemer they called him. My very first real game was late 1963 away to Villa. Between then and when he left he was either injured or I just wasn’t taken to any games. Missed seeing him somehow anyway. It was 1969 before I was going to games on my own. A great player by all accounts and a brave guy who stood by what he thought was right.

  6. CORNISH GOONER

    Jun 29, 2019, 09:52 #114277

    For having outstanding talent & being outspoken, pioneering, bloody minded(?) players - George Eastham & Jimmy Bloomfield anyone? I thought they were terrific during yet another wilderness period.

  7. itsRonagain2

    Jun 28, 2019, 23:26 #114276

    No problems with that John. Supermac was a good player. He claim any goal as his ha ha. Him and Frank S was a good duo.

  8. itsRonagain2

    Jun 28, 2019, 23:26 #114275

    No problems with that John. Supermac was a good player. He claim any goal as his ha ha. Him and Frank S was a good duo.

  9. John F

    Jun 28, 2019, 19:20 #114274

    I loved that 78/79 team and thought TN had the team playing some good football.I got my ticket for my first final in 78 by collecting those cup final vouchers that were printed in the programme s and glued them to an application form.What a disappointment though.Liam Brady being sold was the most devastating for me and I think we all knew that it would signal a decline.I might have to whisper this but I liked Supermac.

  10. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 28, 2019, 19:02 #114273

    SKG & Ron- spot on as always TA I suppose was the nearest thing to FM since. He would of certainly told Ozil what it is to play for the Arsenal. Tony yes that Ipswich final my first real heartbreak. 79 Brady was just sublime that day, when watching the FAcup was a great day of entertainment on the TV.If you were not lucky enough to be there...

  11. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jun 28, 2019, 18:37 #114272

    It's Ron, you have stirred me up mentioning that City 5th round tie - apparently Frank made up a story that Malcolm Allison did n't think Charlie George was the real deal and Charlie bite beautifully giving Allison belters after and during the game. City where a very good side but in awful weather and a wound up CG they succumbed to the Red Tide!

  12. itsRonagain2

    Jun 28, 2019, 16:45 #114271

    Its depressing to think that back in the 70s Liam strode the pitches weaving his magic and we took him for granted yet today, we have the likes of Ozil doing f--k all for the top wages in the club. It says it all about the modern Arsenal losing its soul. Imagine todays lightweights skiving and bottling it in matches with Frank Mac and Peter Storey behind them. Frank and Pete would have been booting them in the air themselves. Its embarrassing for us older fans to have seen our Club having morphed to become a 1960s soft bellied West Ham, having also adopted the same strain of Tottenham powderpuff fairyfootedness this last 15 years. Its a disgrace frankly.

  13. itsRonagain2

    Jun 28, 2019, 16:29 #114270

    Re the 71 team - it was the sheer bloody mindedness i loved about them. It was a team laced with skill though, led by a titan, goalscorers who made defenders terrified, a middle man who would scrape yr face off to get the ball, the most courageous keeper ive ever seen and Charlie George who on his own could do all of those things ..................... and wind up the opposition fans so much so that we used to have run like crazy to whatever railway station sanctuary we needed after we had won away! Even the back up players would charge through walls to win, Roberts, Kelly et al. The best accolade i can give to them is that Leeds respected us. Leeds are the toughest side ive seen and they knew it was spite for spite, hammer and tongs when they faced us. To me, the 71 was Arsenal. The FAC win in the heat that year was simply Arsenal FC refusing to lose. Bloody brilliant! Frank Mac was simply the Emporer. Very Roy Keaneish in his ways (not so manic though) and all the players knew it. They can keep all of these Wengo years players for me, good as many were. The boys of 71 would have sorted any of Wengers teams out in my view. The mentality was iron. I ll never forget going to Maine Road and beating City in the FAC in the mid, slime and rain. Wengos teams would have had snoods gloves and 3 shirts on to go there on a similar night and would have bottled it big time ive no doubt. The teams Tony mentions had brilliance and grit too, but never quite properly harnessed it all consistently quite like the lads of 71 did. Yes, Liam leaving was heartbreaking. One of the best players ive ever seen and a top man too. He oozed class and guile didnt he. Tough lad too. Typical Arsenal to lose him tjhough.

  14. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jun 28, 2019, 15:39 #114269

    I remember an Irish guy I worked with in North London (off Seven Sisters Road) in 1974, he loved Arsenal and he told me in 4 to 5 years we will have the greatest team in England. I asked him how that was going to happen, seeing as I think we were in the bottom 6 at the time. He told me that we would have the best centre half in O Leary, the best centre forward in Stapleton but the Jewel would be Liam Brady ( I had seen Brady by then and was not sure if was big enough LOL) In that 1979 - 80 season Liverpool, the eventual champions had 3 goes in that semi final and could not beat us. However watching us at home in a 0 - 0 draw against Forest shortly after the win over Liverpool I remember my father saying he felt the two cups we were trying to win would take it's toll eventually, sadly my father was right, but that was still one hell of a team. In the final semi match Don Howe put Brady on Souness and smothered his effect on the game - I guess Liam was big enough! Remember that Liverpool team was one hell of a side but our tactics and work rate plus our obvious skills were too much for them - that team should have won more but how could it once Liam Brady had left.

  15. TonyEvans

    Jun 28, 2019, 14:56 #114268

    Exiled - 78/79 I assume, or was it 77/78? Talk about two contrasting FA Cup finals! Old Bowlegs MacDonald bragging about what we were going to do to Ipswich gave me a bad feeling about the game anyway, and so it turned out. More than made up for though in the 79 final wasn't it. I remember being close to tears when McIlroy equalised for Utd - didn't last long though - 2 minutes was it! Mark - think you are right about Brady moving to Juventus. Really got to me.

  16. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 28, 2019, 14:36 #114267

    Mark- it was tears of sorrow for Brady , i do not think any other sale since other than Rocky has upset me as much . Probably the lads on here who watched Charlie George will say the same thing for him . I wonder how much of that is because these 3 all came through the youth system so seemed more like one of us if you know what i mean ..

  17. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 28, 2019, 14:27 #114266

    Tony - i was born that year of the double but i reckon the non stop talk about it from my Grandad must of been why it always felt like i had witnessed it but 78 season is were it really got hold of me . Yes it was a shame CN never fully hit the heights but some great goals and assists in his time . I'am not sure if this is true or just myth but i seem to recall him saying when he signed for us that Atkinson at Man Ure was to flash with all the jewelry and gold , so it was always going to be Arsenal over them ..

  18. markymark

    Jun 28, 2019, 13:33 #114265

    Do you think the selling of Brady to Juventus broke more hearts than any other transfer? It’s amazing how many times I read it devastated young sports mad lads. Me included ! Van Persie sale was in my mind directed at vitriol hatred to Wenger and his little cutesy smile as he rang up his boss Fergie . Brady was just pure tears of sorrow. Aubameyang to UTD will be a sad shake of the head!

  19. TonyEvans

    Jun 28, 2019, 13:20 #114264

    Exiled - great memories! Charlie Nick was my 2nd idol too. He never really hit the heights I'd hoped he would with us though did he, but he was such hot property when at Celtic I couldn't believe he had signed for Arsenal. Reckon we may have started supporting Arsenal around the same time. My first season was 70/71 (not a bad one to start things off eh) and that team mean a great deal to me too. I suppose Charlie George should have been my first Arsenal idol but being only 10 perhaps I was too young to really get in to the players. I can understand though why some of the older posters than me on here loved that team - I think the term is they were greater than the sum of the parts. Individually not truly amazing but what a team!

  20. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 28, 2019, 12:48 #114263

    Totally agree Tony , Brady was my idol so much so i named my son after him much to my Granddads delight . He sent a great letter at the time of renewing my Junior gunners membership saying that the club could not sell LB and i still have the reply from the lady that ran the junior gunners at the time Debbie saying that everyone at the club were all praying it would not happen .. Ron2 - your so right TN did have some great players through his time in charge and also gave Tony Adams his debut and of course signed my 2nd Arsenal idol Charlie .......

  21. TonyEvans

    Jun 28, 2019, 12:45 #114262

    We certainly did Ron - the workhorses like Talbot and Price; one of our best ever defenders in O'Leary; flair from Brady (and occasionally Rix) and a potent strike pairing of Sunderland and Stapleton. Probably, at least, two or three players short of a truly great line up which would have given the Scousers something to think about about!

  22. itsRonagain2

    Jun 28, 2019, 12:20 #114261

    Right on Tony. I loved that period doing the games. Favourite period in fact! We had some great players under TN.

  23. TonyEvans

    Jun 28, 2019, 11:30 #114260

    Some great comments on this thread, especially looking back to the truly great Arsenal sides of the past. The 78-80 team can't be included as one of the greats I know but I can still reel off all the names and vividly recall many of the games over that period. I can't quite explain why but this side will always be special to me - I remember being devastated when Brady left for Juventus - he was my first Arsenal idol and for that reason alone he is a legend for me.

  24. 1971 Gooner

    Jun 28, 2019, 10:17 #114259

    I think the description 'Legend' when applied to footballers is one of those where although you can't define it in abstract terms, you recognise it when you see it. On this basis, I'd say that McLintock, Brady, Adams, Bergkamp, Vieira and Henry for example are legends; Radford, Stapleton, Parlour, Petit, Van Persie and Ramsey were all very good players.

  25. itsRonagain2

    Jun 28, 2019, 10:12 #114258

    Marky - the sad thing is that im not at all surprised to hear that. 'disenfranchised' is the word absolutely isnt it regarding AFC. If thats right re Ozil, there is a lot advertising mentality in there some where i guess by using that anaemic looking good for nothing urchin. It works on the basis that if you use some body or some thing that makes the viewer grate and get annoyed about, they will detest the ad but the product will be very firmly embedded in the mindset. Think McCains chips. Wouldnt you just love to punch that dancing pot bellied Dad surrounded by his oh so perfect family? Youd probably buy the gruesome product though if you needed to give y self a stomach disorder for some perverse reason!. Or even Sixt hire cars. Wdt you just love to drag any of the drivers out of the cars they show and hurl them into the road side? You may well rent a car from though. And so with Mr Ozil .................

  26. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jun 28, 2019, 08:57 #114257

    Some great comments here lads - PaulJames: It would be a great debate who was better Tony or Frank, would have loved them to have both of them playing together in the same team. I think the way Arsenal plummeted when Frank was sold to QPR spoke volumes for me, we still had George, Radford, Simpson, Armstong, Kelly & Storey (I think) yet without Jimmy Rimmer and the emerging Liam Brady we could have been relegated. I can still see Alan Ball scurrying around playing his version of "tippy tappy" and trying to convince the team around him this was the way forward - it was so un Arsenal. Two worse mistakes Mee made, buying Alan Ball and paying him more money than players who had just won the double and then selling Frank and buying Blockley as his replacement - sorry that's 3 big mistakes!

  27. markymark

    Jun 28, 2019, 07:06 #114256

    Ron2 wish you well and on that basis please avoid the Adidas promo where it shows Ozil being made a Londoner. It won’t be good for your blood pressure! Lol. That promo is really pushing it. Knife edge I reckon between the youngun’s thinking it’s a sharp and edgy and the older crowd spitting tacks and feeling more disfranchised from what’s become of Arsenal

  28. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 22:19 #114254

    Lads. I wdt take anything away from TH as a player. To do that is lunacy and I get it Paul about what you say there too and Cyril as well. I just find these people like Henry and Wengo s another, who are given a platform in today’s TV circus that used to be called football, using it to make out they’re rooted in Arsenal, same as we ve been since we were kids. Proclaiming their ‘love’ as fans etc etc. The lying f—-s. No better than today’s rectum licking sound bite loving politicians. Yet, the fans buy it and can’t see what they’re doing. This is going off topic and at a tangent a bit now but I mention it purely because these men see the need even today, to keep their questionable personas in the mindsets of fans years after they’ve finished. The real legends of AFC have never seen the need to do that and never had too. They’re not alone of course but for me, I wish both wd sod off back to Fr and let the fans recall of them what they will. If they are legends , the memories will linger on. Ps. Anelka and Reyes not in his class, but he still saw enough in JAR to behave as he did towards him. I believe he marginalised Wally Walcott too, maybe even Adebayor. Henry isn’t Mr Genuine for me guys. Ego as big as Paris.

  29. Cyril

    Jun 27, 2019, 20:21 #114253

    Ron, your insight and remembrance of the back story is wholly right. Impressive. That said, sometimes, you know, it’s not that useful to over analyse. It takes away from what he did for the Arsenal. He did wholly positive in truth really you know. Ok, he wanted to bang his plonker on the table too much as time went on, but Ron, you know he was always a Gunner Parkin to old ‘shut up’ . He could do no wrong. Ofcourse, the rot set in with the move to the Emirates. Gunner Parkin got a nice little busman’s holiday in his last season and Wenger st al had their noses entirely in the trough. And, here we are today. Ron- tell me I am wrong- gutted old chap!!

  30. Pauljames

    Jun 27, 2019, 19:56 #114252

    Bit harsh on Thierry Ron! Thought he stayed on his feet a lot more than most did in that era, van nilstelroy springs to mind. As for the hand ball he is not going to tell the ref to chalk the goal off in such a big game. Also Reyes and Anelka were not in Henry’s class , and both had questionable attitudes

  31. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 19:45 #114251

    Yes Cyril. Them two wd have clashed. My view is that Henry felt threatened by Reyes so chose to be vile to him on and off the pitch. He used the racist row when Aragon es was spouting off to smear Reyes and to make people think he was as bad as the Sp coach. He wd most certainly have tried to stunt Anelka. He bullied a lot of the kids and it was embarrassing seeing him gesticulating against them when he mad the skipper. SK . Made skipper by the weakling Wengo to try and stop Henry leaving. He cost the club about 15 million by keeping Henry for another year or so. Shd have took it out of his wages. Can’t be doing with all the misty eyed homage to Henry. He showed his colours with his cheating in the World Cup too with his antics with that other utter c—t Gallas.

  32. Pauljames

    Jun 27, 2019, 19:10 #114250

    Wasn’t around for 70/71 but my dad was at WHL and Wembley for the two clinchers and always speaks so fondly of that era. However I would have to put Adams above Mclintock as greatest captain, as his success spanned two trophy winning spells under two very different managers and playing styles.

  33. markymark

    Jun 27, 2019, 18:22 #114249

    My comment implied Manniger wasn’t up to it. In fact thinking back he pulled off some classic saves . What my point was. Reckless gambling on inexperience when a few easy and in those days non expensive buys of seasoned pro’s. Might well have put us across the line twice but it was not to be. Edwin Van DeSarr was kicking his heels at Fulham . Why Wenger didn’t just go out and get him beggars belief.

  34. Cyril

    Jun 27, 2019, 17:31 #114248

    Ron - yep, all the way with you on Dennis. Wenger really had it sown up tactically early years. He bought the best flowing players in Anelka, Henry and Overmars. He nailed it. To move the ball at that pace and keep it under was delicious to watch. In fact the Anelka sale and Henry purchase was a bit of a Lukic/ Seaman moment. Both great decisions - would of loved to have seen Anelka with Henry. Not sure if it would have worked as like you say, personalities and too similar - would you say ?

  35. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jun 27, 2019, 17:05 #114247

    Peter Wain - Glad we both agree on Frank - just the very best for me, however individually we were not the most skilful and our English players at that time were not England regulars, collectively we were the best team. Away from home I saw a few go missing, thinking of the Stoke semi final, Charlie George had a nightmare and it was Frank's last minute header handled on the line that gave us a second chance. The 2-1 win at the Dell that season, Frank scored as teams began to wise up to the Radford and Kennedy partnership, in the run in that season we ground out so many 1-0 wins as opposing teams stopped supplies to our forward players, it was our work without the ball saw us home. No I stand by my view we were not the best team on paper but had the best team and best coach - led of course by Sir Francis! It's Ron - agree about Henry, great player and would have achieved so much more if Frank had been his captain, however TH only got the job because he was the star player - not because of his leadership qualities.

  36. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 17:03 #114246

    Good to hear from you Cyril. Absolutely, his goals record does undermine my view of not making it as a legend and in many ways blows my view out of the water. I have to respect yrs and no doubts others who place him up there and will always do so. Maybe i recall 2001 FAC Final (at that one)and the 2006 CL Final too well though. His lack of composure cost the team of 2 extra trophies. I admit bias though mate. Never could take to him too much, despite valuing his efforts which as you say were outstanding. Always a Bergy man..Better player, superior man.

  37. Cyril

    Jun 27, 2019, 16:54 #114245

    Great thoughts, all of those title winning sides were amazing for different reasons. 89- obvious. 91 for being solid and hard to beat. 98 for a special midfield pairing and slick movement (overmars) 2002 for Adams and ofcourse invincibles. Loved the 98 side and 99 side should have won it. That period was amazing and we still had a drought in the 98/ 02 when we should have shared to spoils with Man U. There was a blueprint there of Wenger’s lack of killer instinct. I always said to the lads”he loves a 2nd place” and that includes his Euro travails. Ron, I agree about Henry’s traits but if you can’t kill the highest goal scorer a ‘ledge’ there is nowhere to go. He scored the greatest goal I have ever seen live against Man U amongst everything else. He was just outstanding. I don’t think he needs to pass a psychometric test for true status. He produced for so many years. All the away fans loved him and respected him at their home grounds. True legend with trophies and the record. I doubt I will see it beaten. Love it to happen though.As you say it’s opinions.

  38. Cyril

    Jun 27, 2019, 16:53 #114244

    Great thoughts, all of those title winning sides were amazing for different reasons. 89- obvious. 91 for being solid and hard to beat. 98 for a special midfield pairing and slick movement (overmars) 2002 for Adams and ofcourse invincibles. Loved the 98 side and 99 side should have won it. That period was amazing and we still had a drought in the 98/ 02 when we should have shared to spoils with Man U. There was a blueprint there of Wenger’s lack of killer instinct. I always said to the lads”he loves a 2nd place” and that includes his Euro travails. Ron, I agree about Henry’s traits but if you can’t kill the highest goal scorer a ‘ledge’ there is nowhere to go. He scored the greatest goal I have ever seen live against Man U amongst everything else. He was just outstanding. I don’t think he needs to pass a psychometric test for true status. He produced for so many years. All the away fans loved him and respected him at their home grounds. True legend with trophies and the record. I doubt I will see it beaten. Love it to happen though.As you say it’s opinions.

  39. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 14:02 #114243

    i thought Alex Maninger was a good keeper once he had his extended run. Just look at some of the junk too between the posts that Wengo saddled the Club with and made out they were all good keepers. Staggering! Im sure some of you will have friends as i had back then who even during Wengos beat years, many expressed serious doubts about him as a Coach. Such as it was though, a good many were wary of criticising his management as people would take it personally. Exiled - yes, i preferred the 2002 team to the 2004.

  40. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 27, 2019, 13:52 #114242

    Mark- i think your right about Wenger although i would not use Manniger as an example , he was one the idiot should of kept instead of buying Richard Wright , not sure how many goals he conceded but in 39 games he kept 18 clean sheets including 6 on the trot during 97/98 !!

  41. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 27, 2019, 13:40 #114241

    Ron -your right out of those four i think 2001/02 was probably the best to watch .

  42. markymark

    Jun 27, 2019, 13:40 #114240

    ItsRon2 - one of Wenger’s biggest flaws was not buying decent cover during his golden years. Too many times we’d be relying on say Manniger in goal completely untried rather than a seriously experienced pro. This is where it started to fall apart as the seasons ground on . Nelson Vivas seemed to single handily blow up a title tilt. That was before we descended into the Stepanovs and worse.

  43. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 13:05 #114239

    Exiled - the whole boring boring Arsenal label is a total fallacy i think. 1960s - exciting but poor defence. 1970 to 73 time, we used to grind it out but had flair players too. All teams did. It was the style back then. Decent football but poor teams from mid 70s to mid 80s interspersed with some great football played inconsistently under TN in late 70s early 80s. Mid 90s pre Wengo, we had lost our way for a couple of seasons and we played pump it up to Wrighty and he did the rest. Reality is that the many years of aimless tippy tappy were more boring than ever we were in the very late 60s and early 70s when the top teams all played in a way to follow Leeds style - physical power, harnessed to skill and remorseless defence. In my view Wengo had about 4 Seasons tops when AFC were a really good watch.

  44. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 27, 2019, 12:53 #114238

    90/91 was the best league side in my opinion to have the 2 points deducted only one game lost score 74 and only concede 18 , better goal difference than any of Wengers teams in fact only the 2001/02 team scored more goals and yet many will tell you we only became exciting to watch when Wenger arrived ..........Bolloxs

  45. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 12:14 #114237

    Don - cracking sides those 89-91 as you say. I think both title winning sides of 89 and 91 were better than anything Wengo created. Its all just opion though isnt it. Those teams would have beaten up Wengos teams both mentally and physically. The 98 side was great to watch, but it was a team that didnt really fire until mid Season wasnt it. Always recall the 3-2 at Highbury v Utd that triggered it. A dull Sunday aft as i recall but what a match! Yes, we ended Liverpool s dominance not f-----g Ferguson and his Manure. Some disagree, but the mental flakiness that Wengos teams latterly are known for actually existed in his best teams. Shown by the schoolboy like sulky melt down after game 50, but there were many games in that 49 game run that they were losing the plot and panicking before a Bergy or Henry goal settled the ship a bit. A long run always needs luck. We had dollops of it in that run.

  46. Don Howe

    Jun 27, 2019, 11:45 #114236

    I never saw the 71 side play live. The 89-91 side were the mutts nuts and the 98 side was still my favourite to watch. Hard to decide between them but having watched the key players emerge from the stiffs and the way we executed Thousand Year Reichers Liverpool for a generation, I go for the 89 team. Also not smeared in Wenger.

  47. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 09:39 #114235

    Peter - agree with you. That team had a perfect balance didnt it. Arguably, the best postwar team the club has had. i d say that if they played 10 games v either of Wengers 2 good sides the lads of 71 would win more than they lost given equal fitness, facilities and pitches.

  48. itsRonagain2

    Jun 27, 2019, 09:03 #114234

    SK - i was thinking legends generally to be honest but FM is the obvious one for AFC isnt he. He wasnt alone though in that 71 team. Willow and Raddy were close to being the same level, Simmo too, all players who had put the hard yards and years in for us. I dont place Henry as a legend to be truthful. He talks a good case but for me, his shit captaincy let him down and hi treatment of the youngsters and Reyes in particular was a disgrace. His goals were great of course but for me he was just an excellent player. A legend has to be an excellent man and personally i think hes a bit slimy and the type who understand modern media to project an image that doesn't match his personality. I think for an imported player to become a club legend is difficult. Basically theyre mercenaries. Nothing wrong with that. Legends emerge from home based players for me, who might not be from the clubs locality but who understand British football culture. We may never see another legend again in fact, as modern football is players by players who pass through and for clubs like Arsenal, they see the club as a stepping stone to getting in to real Titan clubs and some times its obvious what the score is when they join AFC.

  49. peter wain

    Jun 27, 2019, 07:03 #114233

    Sorry Seven Kings but I watched the 1970/71 side and they were awesome. McLintock was the best captain we have ever had in my time only Adams comes close. In Simpson we had one of the most under-rated footballers ever and the whole defence was superb. Upfront we had Radford and Kennedy who scored lots of goals provided by Armstrong and Charlie George, Graham and the maestro that was Peter Storey. No they were a great team but they also had individual great players such as George and McLintock.

  50. Seven Kings Gooner 1

    Jun 26, 2019, 16:39 #114232

    It's Ron, "A legend is a player who becomes part of the fabric and identity of the club through his feats on the field" I presume you are referring to Frank McLintock with that description. AR is an OK player, nothing more, when Frank led Arsenal to the 71 double, Arsenal were not even the second best team on paper individually but collectively they reflected their coach and skipper. Frank is a legend, DB and Henry might be classed as legends but they will never be Frank, I watched the guy home and away for two or three seasons and the respect his own team had for him was one thing but it was the respect the opposition players had for him that made the difference to Arsenal that double year.

  51. mad max

    Jun 26, 2019, 16:12 #114231

    ridiculous article, never a legend in a million years, I here torreira could be swapped for frank kessie, no brainer for me kessie is miles better than torreira. but we'll probably end up with a couple of nobody's from some far off country. sad day's for this once great club. why oh why did they not sell their shares to usmanov, we could have won the champions league by now. KROENKE OUT NOW!

  52. Colonel Blimp

    Jun 26, 2019, 14:53 #114230

    Who wrote this, his agent? He did well to come back from that injury, decent enough player like the chaps mention below. Legend, fughetaboutit.

  53. Don Howe

    Jun 26, 2019, 14:47 #114229

    Not his fault but a player absolutely smeared in Wenger. A metaphor for a lost and wasted generation. Wrighty and DB 10 are legends. Nigel Winterburn is a legend. Ramsey is a bloke we offloaded because he wanted £400k a week. Not so much leg end and a different type of end.

  54. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 26, 2019, 14:43 #114228

    Its Ron , spot on as always and 100% right about Keown in my opinion.. Mark your right Brady is an Arsenal legend and i understand GR's point Sunderland scored a legendary goal . As for Ramsey's FA cup final goals , would not say they were legendary in the same context as Sunderland's in 79 ! 2014 final was against Hull and we were lucky to win lets be honest he saved our embarrassment that day ! Funny to think that goal at the scum against the scum by Liam was the same game Sunderland scored a hat trick , in my eyes that makes him more of a Legend than Ramsey..............

  55. markymark

    Jun 26, 2019, 13:57 #114227

    Gooner Ron - interesting take on that. To me Brady is a legend simply because he had artistry in a limited side. Yet it’s Sunderland’s goal that gets regularly shown. More than Brady’s bamboozler against the Spuds.

  56. itsRonagain2

    Jun 26, 2019, 13:10 #114226

    A legend is a player who becomes part of the fabric and identity of the club through his feats on the field, top level honours won, the standing, respect and gravitas earned through being part of 1 or more teams but within the same club by virtue of his leadership abilities, not necessarily under different coaches and also is additionally perceived by outsiders as immediately recognisable and associated with the club. Its not absolutely needed for all of the ingredients to be held, but certainly most of them are in my view. A club legend is a player who other clubs and their fans would have liked to have in their club or to be part of their clubs history (perhaps begrudgingly admitted) Ramsey is a lightweight and typifies the type of players who make large earnings from football today despite having very limited talents and he doesn't even get out of the starting blocks. In fact, whilst some disagree, hes actually a player who the club were right to cut their losses on and shift out in my view.No legend ignites a debate of that type.The only pity is that they cant shift some of the other self labelled similar'legends' who are presently there wallowing about in the AFC social club stinking the club out. When he retires, after 6 months he ll be forgotten about, until of course he turns up in a Sky studio talking of how middle men need pace power, skill guts and game nous, all qualities he barely possesses. In fact he ll probably be like that annoying primate Keown - the longer hes retired the better player he ll become and he ll re invent himself to the extent that listeners will think he was once Roy Keanes clone.

  57. GoonerRon

    Jun 26, 2019, 12:44 #114225

    The term ‘legend’ is so difficult to pin down. My initial comparison - purely based on dramatic FA Cup final winning goals during a lean period in our history (trophy-wise) - is Alan Sunderland a legend? Based on his overall talent and contribution during his time with us, probably not, but he was certainly responsible for a legendary moment in our club’s history. Recognising they were different players in different positions in different era for Arsenal, I’d probably tag Ramsey in a similar way - responsible for two legendary moments in our history but not a legend himself.

  58. peter wain

    Jun 26, 2019, 12:07 #114224

    yes a good player but never ever close to being a legend

  59. TonyEvans

    Jun 26, 2019, 11:18 #114223

    A decent enough player but in no way shape or form a legend. I can only echo Ron's comment about how fortunate us older supporters are with our treasured memories of proper Arsenal legends - the way it's going now it might be a long time before we see another! On that note to me it looks like this summer's transfer window is no different from so many others of recent times with Arsenal shopping on the cheap and having bids rejected left, right and centre. All we need now is the late August 'trolly dash'.

  60. markymark

    Jun 26, 2019, 07:40 #114222

    Ernie 71 - A bit harsh on the OP. Don’t hold back! From experience I post and then hold a sharp intake of breath ! I’ll remember next time I post an article will it meet the Ernie criteria? I’ll be on tenterrhooks!

  61. itsRonagain2

    Jun 25, 2019, 22:34 #114221

    Some brilliant posts on here by you guys as usual. All due respect to the original poster for his views on Ramsey as with any original poster. They all make good efforts. The rwlaity for me though is that i actually feel sorry for the Emirates brigade ie those like the OP whos Gunners support started in this tepid, featureless, pitiful soulless, colorless, feeble, half hearted 13 yr old stain on the clubs great history. I hope some legends are seen by them one day. I treasure the memories of the ones i had, esp as a kid and the ones who still look on must cringe at the sight of the club and those no longer with us must turn in their graves.

  62. CORNISH GOONER

    Jun 25, 2019, 19:04 #114220

    Legend? Never!! And I am sick of hearing about players being "technical". There is a vast pool of overpriced players out there on the market these days, all described as "technical". But why can't our scouts unearth those rare talents who have a few brain cells, are fighters & have that something about them that makes you think they are going to make it whatever? Looks like this is going to be a rubbish window with no exits for the likes of Must & Oz but some of our few assets weighing up moves elsewhere ( who would blame them) & a squad that looks as if it's own morale is fast breaking down. Why would any REAL talent want to move to AFC when the Club itself lacks both money & ambition. Still, the World Cup rugby should be good this autumn.

  63. Ernie71

    Jun 25, 2019, 17:58 #114219

    This article is garbage.Adams Viera Bergkamp and Henry are real legends.You dont even have to think about them being legends.Ramsey had one good half season in 10 years. You say Ramsey gave us 10 years of loyal service half of that time was spent on the treatment table.And it was fitting that he ended his Arsenal career injured. Morrow and Lineghan scored winning goals in cup finals legends? Dont make me f**king laugh. Henry was the only legend who played a league game at the Emirates.Legend like world class the most overused saying in football

  64. Pauljames

    Jun 25, 2019, 15:08 #114218

    Agree with what’s been said so far, a decent player with a good attitude. Not really a Wenger type player, and always looked a little bit out of place to me. The term legend most definitely does not apply.

  65. Exiled in Pt

    Jun 25, 2019, 14:05 #114217

    DB10's testimonial last time AFC had a legend play in the soulless concrete bowl ......

  66. markymark

    Jun 25, 2019, 13:50 #114216

    Think Ron2 summed it up perfectly . There have been no legends in the Emirates era. It doesn’t mean though that he is reduced . He was a good player who suffered unfortunate injuries but that’s where it ends. We are so far from having legends at the moment . I wouldn’t even worry about that . Let’s get a settled team of battlers . Legends may come at some point from that

  67. itsRonagain2

    Jun 25, 2019, 13:15 #114215

    AFC have seen no 'legends' emerge in your era. Ramsey was a decent player, when the club could get him on the pitch. The 2008 leg snap probably stunted him. He was never coached correctly and he was allowed to indulge himself with his silly flicks and back heels.Nobody ever knew t the day he left what his real best role in a team actually was. His best attitude was when he knew he was leaving. Should have joined Utd when he had a chance to. His career may have flourished there i believe.